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Underground > Radio & Music >

Trim

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12:51 / 29.06.07

Well, Grime seems to be running things on the Music forum today so I may as well add to it. I haven't been the biggest fan in the past - a lot of it has passed me by, and I haven't always loved what I've heard. However, in the last couple of weeks, I've heard a couple of tracks that have knocked me for six - the new Wiley, a new Durty Goodz track (can't remember the title, will post later), but the tune that's really blowing me away at the moment is first track to be found on Trim's Myspace "Get With It". All of above - particularly the latter two - have what I loved about NY Hip Hop like Nas and Kool G back in the day - fast intricate wordplay, giving you a real "what the fuck was that?" REWIND moment, only this time, it's coming with a London flex. Looks like we might have some real superstar MCs in the making. Pity the record industry seems to be tanking as I'd like to see these boys make some cash.

Anyway, possibly Grime's lack of crossover success but street popularity has given the genre some time to mature, and the lyricists some time to amp up their skills. More likely they've been this fucking good all the time and I've got cloth ears. Anyway, you can order Trim's mixtape "Soulfood" from the link below on the Myspace - if it's not working go ukrecordshop.com I haven't got my copy het, but I'm going to be harrassing the postman till it arrives. It costs £6 - listen to the Myspace and do the right thing. Any MC who references problems with the plumbers and Jemina Puddleduck in the same song deserves out support.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:03 / 29.06.07

Where is the link, soundboy?

It is here.

13:05 / 29.06.07

Sorry I was too excited to post it. Means I'll have to listen to it again!

13:06 / 29.06.07

Tall, dark and gothic, oatmeal dumplings and porridge

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT

15:42 / 29.06.07

Fucking YES! Cheers for the heads up, Mr Roy (and the link, Mr Boy)

08:04 / 03.07.07

Just got my copy of Soulfood Volume 1 through the mail and am listening to it now. Dark, grimy digital beats (better than th quite slow tempo so far - 3 tracks it. Really crisp tight lyrics which really demand to be listened to - he's a fucking badass MC. Quite a "hostile" kind of flow/delivery - very urban and "alienated", I suppose. That said, it's great to think that this music is emerging from London at the moment.

More later.

08:09 / 03.07.07

This CD is fucking wicked. Go buy one right now or I'm gonna slap yo ass.

power vacuums & pure moments

12:41 / 03.07.07

This link illustrates just how much grime has matured in recent times.

Trim, get a trim. - Lethal B

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:32 / 03.07.07

Haha, because his name is trim, and Lethal B is saying he needs a haircut! Lol! I bet Pete Doherty ROFFLED when Lethal told him about that zinger!

Trim: "We've never had beef with Lethal B, please forget about Lethal B, we don't give a shit about Lethal B."

13:36 / 03.07.07

Power Vacumns: I'm not sure what you mean, and how that link reinforces it ... are you saying grime has matured a lot in the last three years?

13:47 / 03.07.07

.... which is to say, beef between crews still seems to be part of the scene, AFAIK. Someone commented elsewhere that the various intercrew beefs are one of the things that makes the "Soulfood" tape a bit impenetrable at times, but it hasn't given me any problems so far. In fact, it's one of the things I find interesting as a onlooker because it shows the aliveness of the scene - all this different crews competing, pirate radio beefs bouncing off mixtapes and back to on air and back again. I think it's always going to appear in music as rooted in MC competition as grime is, much as it is in Hip Hop. Both musics have a very different lyrical tradition to that of any other music I can think (bar dancehall, I suppose), one that's rooted in bragging and bigging up yuh chest with rhymes, and when you're doing that, you're always going to need someone to bounce off. It's all very testosterone driven I suppose, but well, that part of the buzz...

14:02 / 03.07.07

Also, worth noting is the whole mixtape aspect, and grime's roots in pirate radio MC sessions and clashes. Listening to the tape, it's obviously not a finished, polished, overproduced product. Not that's it's disposable but it's certainly something done quickly and thrown out, as is shown by the way that Soulfood 2 is out already with Volume 3 coming out in August! Where else are you going to find 3 albums worth of music put out in such rapid succession? (Can anyone say "Ghost!") There's a kind of responsive quality to this that ties into the aliveness of a scene, and to me seems a lot more vibrant than a rock guitarist spending three weeks giving his solo a good hard polish.

The whole thing reminds me of the way that dancehall is still on 7", rather than LPs as it's also quickfire music, and responds to fashions, crazes, new rhythms and the concerns to the dancehall, it's constituency, rather than muso critical acclaim.

Don't know if this has any links to the economics of production, but with the way that the record industry seems to be tanking, it seems to be increasingly impossible that someone like Trim is going to get a big fat advance to live on. Selling tapes like this isn't going to have him buying property, either but possibly it's a new economic model - cuts out any record company middleman and might make him a few hundred quid, I suppose. I'm more than happy to give him my £6, regardless.

14:10 / 03.07.07

Oh and Flyboy!

There's a "screwed and chopped" version of When I'm 'Ere on Vol 1!

15:00 / 03.07.07

Trim, get a trim. - Lethal B

I'm moving at a speed you wouldn't dare do on your bike
It ain't a haircut, I'm what comes out at night

15:06 / 03.07.07

Actually, I think I do understand what you were on about, Power Vacumns. I assume it was some sort of diss but I was thrown off the scent by the fact you completely shot yourself in the foot, by posting something from three years ago. If you want to slag it off, at least show some fucking sign of actually having listened to in living memory. Apart from by accident that is, coming out the headphones of a scary black person you had the misfortune to sit next to on a bus.

I am really not interested in it "maturing" so it becomes acceptable to the likes of you. The fact that it doesn't appeal to the reactionary , conservative and culturally insulated is part of it's strength, IMO.

power vacuums & pure moments

22:20 / 03.07.07

Sometimes I am that scary black person, blud. So calm down. I like a lot of things about grime, although as a dubstep fan sometimes i just want the mc to shutup. That said, I have a lot of problems with the things some mc's are saying and not suffering from any white guilt i feel free to discuss them. I just thought your comment about grime maturing was funny, and i find the amount of grime fans on a board that takes such a stand on misogyny pretty funny too. Just some dyke wastegash gettin vexed tho innit? No long ting for mans like Roy.

Air on the roads is old, fair play. Next time i lay into grime i'll use new tracks.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:24 / 03.07.07

Can we all remember that the last time this fellow decided to take up the cudgels it was to adumbrate the social virtues of psytrance and middle-class squatting, and perhaps be kind as we might to a small child proudly offering us its poo?

Regrettable Juvenilia

22:25 / 03.07.07

Yr own stand on grime is pretty funny too, metalayer - is it the misogyny that makes you think people who think grime is good music are ladyparts, meaning bad people?

power vacuums & pure moments

23:23 / 03.07.07

I dont share certain people's belief that 'cunt' is anymore offensive than 'dick' flyboy, or 'gash' for that matter. Its just metonymy, the context dictates if its offensive or not. But lots of people on here do, which is one of the reasons i find the amount of grime talk in music amusing.

I think you might be twisting my words just a bit Haus, but ill allow it coz you is top boy round these endz. You made a lot of incorrect assumptions about me from what i said in that thread, but ill admit i did chat quite a lot of shit and was needlessly offensive and generalising. If you can let the past slide we can have a proper discussion about it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

05:23 / 04.07.07

I can let the past slide if you show any indication of having learned from it. If you just want to turn up to make ill-educated comments about grime, then use the thread where smuggos can make weird, unsupported arguments demonstrating unexamined racial and musical prejudices. It's what it's there for.

08:56 / 04.07.07

Personally, I think there’s something deeply icky about letting your politics dictate the music you like, and your responses to it. It normally ends up in the unfortunate position of preaching that black music should somehow be “progressive” i.e. acceptable to white liberal sensibilities. See roots reggae, Michael Franti et al and numerous others to boring to mention. IMO this robs the music of a lot its power and complexity, distorts the way social conditions are mirrored in music (not the other way around) and, worst of all, presents an acceptable face of black music to white people, while ignoring what is actually popular with black audiences. That is not the position that you’re advocating but it’s an argument which is a logical extension of it, which I’ve had on here several times. Why shouldn’t black artists be allowed to make music that’s a bit jarring?

Also, I’m not going to argue that the Fire Camp track is “mature” (yeuuck) – however I certainly think that’s Trim’s lyricism represents a progression (care to actually listen to the track and disagree?) – but, regardless, I see it’s roots in the kinds of adversarial competition which is a rich tradition in black music. As I said above, this stuff emerges from a very a different lyrical tradition and not to recognise that, is a well, a bit ignorant really. There’s some interesting stuff about this in David Toop’s book Rap Attack where he traces the roots of this back through phenomena like “the dozens” – rhyming insults used by inner city kids – back to griots in Africa – singers for hire, who’d be available to insult your rival. Some other examples might be sound and MC clashes in reggae. You can even see it other linked artforms like breakdancing.

I’d rather discuss that sort of thing than grime’s alleged moral degeneracy.

09:16 / 04.07.07

... which is not to say I totally want to let all this slide:

That said, I have a lot of problems with the things some mc's are saying and not suffering from any white guilt i feel free to discuss them. I just thought your comment about grime maturing was funny, and i find the amount of grime fans on a board that takes such a stand on misogyny pretty funny too. Just some dyke wastegash gettin vexed tho innit? No long ting for mans like Roy.

Busy at the mo, will unpick later on.

09:26 / 04.07.07

Oh, I can’t leave it alone - so, I do tend to find the “it’s misogynistic” criticism, a bit, I dunno, unbelievable. I feel it’s much more likely that grime, doesn’t suit your personal aesthetic, is experienced as a bit alien, a bit scary – and the misogyny becomes a stick to beat it with, rather than the other way round (having a love for the music, and being sadly let down by it’s misogyny). Your comments on the MCing over dubstep indicate as much. I tend to find morality comes after aesthetics in these discussions.

Anyway, first question should be, as it always is in these debates – how much grime have you actually listened to? As you don’t like it, and presumably don’t listen to it, how have you gained such a knowledge of it that you can damn and dismiss it? Could you point to some specific tracks that have upset you?

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:01 / 04.07.07

I think Haus is right that if this discussion is going to carry on and not be about Trim then it should go in another thread - am drafting something and trying to work out where to put it.

10:47 / 04.07.07

Cool - will C & P my responses if relevant.

power vacuums & pure moments

23:45 / 04.07.07

Haus - Why exactly are my comments ill-educated? I dont need to 'support' my accusation of misogyny, its blatantly fucking obvious to anyone whose listened to more than two grime tracks. I wouldnt be suprised if your total exposure to the scene consisted of watching Roll Deep's 'Badman' vid they made for trident. Go listen to 'celebrate that' too grandad.

Roy - Why do you assume i dont like grime?* I do like it. I like in the same way i like US gangsta rap, its fucking cool till i bother to think about whats being said. You say music mirrors social conditions. I agree, but i think the way some grime artists present themselves glamourises certain responses to those conditions and influencing kids, cements that response as part of the culture. Im not saying that describing the experience of living a violent lifestyle cant be an artform. I just dont agree that the grime scene is yet mature, as you said earlier. Progressive black music doesnt have to pander to white liberals either...i dont want to hear a uk equivalent of Saul Williams, but i wouldnt mind a grime Dead Prez. As for 'Air on the roads' and 'maturity', well its not clever but its silly OTT hype-ness is great. 'Im sorry wiley but i wen and shagged your mum/you didnt even know but yeah your my son.' Fucking classic. Ill post about specific tracks if you want, but that should make you see where im coming from for now.

*Actually, pretty obvious why. I was being deliberately and needlessly provocative in that switchboard thread.

ONLY NICE THINGS

05:01 / 05.07.07

I dont need to 'support' my accusation of misogyny

Well, if you don't feel a need to support your arguments, then the thread where smuggos can make weird, unsupported arguments demonstrating unexamined racial and musical prejudice seems like the perfect place to make them. If you are actually able to talk coherently about Trim, a skill you have so far not demonstrated, then here is the place to do it. It's quite simple, really, although possibly not simple enough.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:06 / 05.07.07

So, if we're going to talk about misogyny, let's talk about Trim - I've listened to "Get With It", "Free Roachie" and "Liar Liar Pt2" so far, and there seems to be a lot of what we older listeners would call dissing, but I am not so sure about the misogyny. There is a comment about Lady Sovereign's bisexuality or otherwise, which may certainly be ungentlemanly, but on first listen that's all I got.

What I did get was a dark feeling - I think because of the distortion on the opening beats of "Get With It", and the closeness of the rhyming. I confess that I tend to encounter grime vocals as sensation rather than narrative - if there is a running theme through the song, I don't really get it, apart from what Roy Mapophenia identified as bigging up one's chest.

I really like the sense of place in this - Bow, E3, the assertion of coming from London, not New York (Gotham). I feel an orgy of consumption coming on...

10:46 / 05.07.07

I dont need to 'support' my accusation of misogyny

Well, actually you do. Otherwise it becomes one of those common sense assertions which everybody knows is true, even though um, actually I can’t think of any tracks right now, but I heard this thing on the radio a few months ago, can’t remember the name…. It’s just one of the unsupported slurs, characteristic of criticisms of more dynamic black musics like Hip Hop and Dancehall. It's also fucking lazy, shows an unwillingness to think about the music and context.

Having listened to the entirety of Soul Food Volume 1 several times now, I’ve got to concur with Haus’ oberservations. It’s not misogynistic at all. There’s the odd line about sexual prowess and conquests but not really much else, and I’d say the same remains true for most of the genre as a whole.

11:11 / 05.07.07

Having said that, if you are going to attempt to prove that grime as a whole genre is misogynistic, and a social danger blah blah blah and that what you say is troof and you're not merely coming out with the usual unexamined and reactionary cobblers that is chucked at black music, do it in another thread.

This thread is for Trim.

All Acting Regiment

13:30 / 05.07.07

Is there another thread for Bizzle, or should it be started?

13:33 / 05.07.07

15:17 / 05.07.07

As much as I'm against Grime and everything to do with it (basically, lippy yout giving it the big 'un on the night bus to the Hell, and not in a good way, either ... They should join bloody well join the army, if they're that angry, shouldn't they? The young people? I'd incinerate every single one of them, if I could. Or at least, I'd make them earn their D&G dog tags, in blood) I do like the Trim tune lnked to at the top of this thread very much.

15:47 / 05.07.07

Me too. Can't seem to find any of his stuff on Soulseek though.

07:07 / 06.07.07

The CD costs £6 - buy British.

You can get it from UKrecordshop.com. Actually, musically it's a lot slower in tempo for the first few tracks than Get With It, but lyrically, he's still pretty tasty.

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