BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


John From Cincinnati

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
Mug Chum
18:27 / 01.08.07
Hmm, I'm a bit iffy on this one now.

There's only two more episodes left. HBO seems desperate. Don't they care at all that they're tickling the feet of the guy holding the rope of the guillotine?

More later. 'Undecided' doesn't even begin to describe.
 
 
Mug Chum
20:21 / 01.08.07
Word on the TWOP is that the show was cancelled.

Well, at least I got out of it a new favourite intro credits since Deadwood and Arrested Development.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:02 / 02.08.07
Iffy in what way, Sparrow, like, not wanting to invest in it because it's going to get cancelled? One of the things I love about the show is that it's so much about the mood, the experience of watching it and living in those moments is as important as any sort of overall narrative purpose. So, I almost feel like any episode could be the last and I'd be cool with it. However, I do think that Milch will give us some semblance of closure in the finale. They shot those episodes after the initial reviews came in, and I think they must have recognized things were not looking good for the future.

Damn this world that's lost its ability to process metaphor.
 
 
Mug Chum
07:24 / 02.08.07
Well no initially it wasn't because it was cancelled. Afterwards it was.

Things like John stabbing himself and Bill going "he ain't from Cincinnati" feels like it's attempting to go the normal route of mystery reveal (that I already lost count of the moments "to be explained" if that's what they're going for; "oh look Cass saw something on the footage, she's crying she... oh well nothing, maybe they'll say what it was later"). But fuck, I'd assume everybody was on the same boat as Butchie (note aside, Brian Van Holt and Ed O'Neil are unbelievably good) concerning John's strangeness and things happening during his stay (and that Butchie, for instance, just decided to go on with it accepting it fully without questions).

I'm getting a bad vibe that the show is trying to go through the "who is John?" mystery when I thought those specifics didn't really matter to the show.

And that's the thing, it's really great to watch, these characters got themselves incredibly interesting and some of the WTF moments are great (while others are starting to feel like "maybe we'll answer that in the second season; if Lost can do it, why wouldn't HBO let us?"). But I'm suspicious that they were aiming at a plot-driven thing with very little butter to spread through the bread of these ten episodes (or were just fearing there wasn't enough butter and foccused on character's curves and decided to create a very contrived mystery).

For instance, this episode. It was great from a character-driven stance. Communication breakdowns, losts in translations, etc. People surrounding the outsider, going back to their old roles, falling back into the one threat of a coming bad tide. But it seems they're actually going for a conventional mystery plot, and if so, there was nothing (Bill found out that John doesn't die with stabs -- I thought everybody was on board with what happened to him and Joe!). And things like the way it's treating something like "Shaun will soon be gone" really pisses me off. It feels now as if a miss-interpreted overblown line, but it was initially presented with actual directorial gravitas (to which one can only go "oh fuck I thought they killed the kid in the 2nd episode to get that out of the way already! They're not ACTUALLY treading water on THAT drama are they?").

I'm hoping these next last two episodes will be enfuriatingly excellent. It feels like treading water getting ready to drown.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
19:01 / 02.08.07
I'm of course saddened by the totally expected cancellation, but I'm really worried about the show having any sort of closure at all. I mean, isn't the Milch Quote "The series begins at episode 10?"

And strangely, I don't get the same kind of "push" towards the "Who is John" question.

Totally random speculation:

It'd be interesting if everything that has happened since Shaun got hurt hasn't actually happened in the traditional sense, but if after he goes, EVERYONE involved retains their memory of the experience. A collection of people that would have otherwise been destroyed by his passing now have connections with each other that would help them make it through. And his mother would have been able to meet him, where otherwise she would never have known him. Yeah, it would still be a bit of a narrative cheat, but it's one that could work here.
 
 
Mug Chum
20:05 / 02.08.07
You know, I can actually imagine that happening. It fits in, my head.

Yeah, that's what's troublesome. I heard as well the "it begins in the 10th episode" (although BVH said this week episode was a major revelation. They might have changed some stuff around. Hope to God they made two versions of the last episodes: in case they're cut and in case they're not).

Curious bit: Milch was the supplier of the homophobic voice going on Barry this episode. WTF?
 
 
Mug Chum
15:24 / 03.08.07
Sorry for 2x post, but I have to mention that I really liked the fact that the appearance of a threat of danger was taken into ROOM 24 for interrogation (and [theo self-?]torture) while there's a ghost of past invasion there ("vadeuville of degrations") -- isn't there a show on Fox that does that every week?

And that we've had new surfing scenes. Just wish they'd tap more directly on that whole thing of Oceanic Feeling of GodBliss/heroine and the like (since Milch is a big William James fan).

Forget the part I said about being unsatisfied with the show.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:10 / 05.08.07
Hold on, has the show been officially cancelled? I'm not particularly optimistic, but HBO could still pull a Zippy and bring the show out of its near death state. Admittedly, if I was looking at it from a business point of view, I wouldn't be likely to pick it up, but at least give the show a chance to find an audience on DVD. It's evolved a lot over the course of the ten episodes and people who weren't ready to give something a chance after the final moments of The Sopranos might appreciate it more on a fresh viewing.
 
 
Mug Chum
17:30 / 05.08.07
Doesn't appear to be official yet. I read in Television Without Pity, but I'm not sure one could trust the source (some tv news blog).

But yeah, it doesn't look good (although HBO seems to me the type of channel that'd let ten more episodes slide).
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
07:26 / 06.08.07
Well that was easily the most tense hour of television that I've ever seen.
 
 
Mug Chum
22:53 / 11.08.07
Tomorrow, maybe the last episode ever.

As the disgusting Cy said in Deadwood, "don't the kid in all of us look forward to the new arrival. I still tingle at the bottom of my balls". (I feel dirty just typing that)

Just hope it'll be worth it. That last shot of Butchie waiting for his little bird-Godot-Shaunie-Jesus-Tide to come flying (surfing) back was murderous. Hoping they'll at least bring some new light into why all those shots of the 'elephant cage'.

Furioso, I'm really jealous of you. Having so many episodes of Deadwood to watch for the 1st time is great.
 
 
Mark Parsons
00:32 / 12.08.07
I just watched Season two's opening Eps, which I thought were blackly comical moreso than most. Good thing I'm out sick, so I can at least get S2 in by end of this week. The extras from Season One were aces: Milch is is indeed a fascinating dude. I was intrigued by his frequent references to Xtianity, which seem to follow through on JFC. It reminded me of two of Camille Paglia's favorite linked topics (knowledge of religion is a fundamental requisite for a meaningful education/US secular democrats have to come to terms with Xtians rather than try to ignore/mollycoddle them). I'm reducing her issues to near oncoherence here so pls do not jump in boots first and derail the tread, but Milch's insightful grasp of theme, character, human condition etc did seem to be paralelled by his understanding of Xtian mythology and themes and so forth. Made me want to find a good book or two about Xtianity: any recomendations?

And with as much respect as I have towards HBO, I have to give them a big FUCK YOU VERY MUCH for mothballing such a one-of-a-kind show as DEADWOOD, then -- apparently -- botching JFC's marketing. it is exacltly the kind of show I would tune in for and I very nearly didn't due to indifference. That Strummer tune hooked me in and I'm glad of that to be sure.
 
 
Mark Parsons
00:33 / 12.08.07
Please excuse my poor cocksucking spelling. I was not taught proofreading at the orphanage prior to being sold into a life of oozing muck, whisky and five dollar handjobs.
 
 
Mark Parsons
00:35 / 12.08.07
Also, Ian McShane is astonishing as Swearingen. I remember reading about LOVEJOY when I lived in the UK (1989-1995). Is the series any good/worth checking out for McShane?
 
 
Mug Chum
04:29 / 12.08.07
Lovejoy I never saw one episode (and wouldn't really want to). Milch's previous works either (Hill Street Blues, NYPD Blue), and wouldn't really want to (except maybe for Big Apple, Al Bundy as old fart copper to takes care of his sister).

You can find a bunch of mind-blowingly interesting interviews from Milch all around the net and one seminar about writing he did that sweeps through the JFC groundwork entirely.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
15:11 / 12.08.07
Where could find this writing seminar?

Milch has come to be one of my favourite people to listen to talk about the craft of writing.
 
 
Mug Chum
19:46 / 12.08.07
I've got it in my email. Wouldn't know how to put somewhere on the net. PM me with your email if interested.

(but warning: it's a transcript, so it's filled with "aaahm, eeeeeh...")
 
 
PatrickMM
23:20 / 12.08.07
I don't know if HBO exactly botched JFC's marketing. The show isn't exactly easy to sell, what with its massive, ever evolving cast, and genre blending premise. It's a hard sell, and I don't think it was what anyone was looking for after the last episode of The Sopranos. I'd argue the bigger issue with the series is critics who just wrote it off as confusing when in reality, most of the show is quite straightforward, and if you understand the themes that Milch is exploring, it's not that tough to understand most of the goings on.

But, critics and the general public apparently weren't willing to engage with the series on an intellectual level and as a result, declared that it was indecipherable. What exactly are the major pressing questions, I feel like what's going on is pretty clear at this point, John is there to help everyone in this town recover their life and form a new community. Why does it matter who he is or why he was sent, the answer to that question, much like the real answer to the question of whether God exists, is ultimately up to you. I think the show is incredibly special and one of the most perfect TV works ever made. I liked Deadwood, I love JFC.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:57 / 12.08.07
Well, pitching it as "the next big thing" and putting it right after the Sopranos finale may have done more to hurt it than to help it.

I really think that a large part of "confusing" may be its slow pace, if that makes any sense. There's "nothing going on" and people are left wondering what they missed. (Answer: A show made up of little character moments.) Compare to the popularity of shows like Lost or Heroes that advance a ill-thought out and thematically jumbled metaplot and all the fans who tune in just to see "what is really going on".

What is really going on doesn't matter in JFC, which makes it confusing to a certain audience. Namely, the audience that was pitched it.

Man, I am so excited.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
04:19 / 13.08.07
Here on the early side of the morning, I'd posit that in it's way, John from Cincinnati was not just David Milch's next project but a literal and figurative sequel to Deadwood. (In much the same way the Jim Jarmusch's Ghost Dog is sort of a sequel to Dead Man.)
 
 
Spaniel
12:47 / 13.08.07
Lovejoy? Twee British comedy drama if I recall correctly (it's been a long, long time). Fine for a Sunday afternoon, but hardly something to seek out.
 
 
Gendudehashadenough
23:20 / 14.08.07
The last episode was well done. More of the rounds by John and other family members constantly trying to do something with the city they live in, but what the fuck do you do in a beach community half-way between shittsville and the Mexicali Border? What community is there to speak of that could possibly be represented by the characters interaction with the emulation machine that John seems to embody?

I only have questions.

I did catch myself scoffing at the Link/John heartiness, like "you know what he's already going to SAY!! the asphalt is the least of your worries you schmuck." those wet suits are quite possibly the most ace-dandy items I've ever seen.
 
 
Mug Chum
23:57 / 14.08.07
Fuck, entire torrent downloaded to not work and two other entire files through rapidshare (split!) and nothing. John's father is an asshole.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
14:32 / 15.08.07
Officially canceled.
 
 
Mug Chum
15:50 / 15.08.07
Yeah, I guess the mantra about the Deadwood movies can come back at full throttle now.

But, man, Holy Fuck!
 
 
Mark Parsons
02:38 / 16.08.07
I've read that the DEADWOOD movies are not a sure thing at all, just an intention by HBO, no doubt to fend off the show's pissed off audience. I don't even know if they'd work: you have six hours MAX to wrap up a show that could have easily ran another 3-4 years/36-48 HOURS.

Fuck You Very Much HBO!

(and Flight of the Conchords has almost totally belly flopped these last two eps)
 
 
PatrickMM
02:44 / 16.08.07
Judging from what Milch said, Deadwood was "inexplicably cancelled," so I'm guessing they won't be rushing to make those movies. It was likely a ploy to tide people over and not get too angry at the cancellation. We heard the exact same thing when Angel was cancelled, and I'm still waiting for those movies.

But, back to JFC, I loved the finale, and I think the show ended in a satisfying place. There was still more to do thematically, but I feel like the narrative and characters resolved themselves. And, reading Milch interivews about the finale, I could listen to the guy talk forever, other than Grant, I can't think of anyone else who's putting so many ideas out there.
 
 
Mug Chum
02:55 / 16.08.07
I'm also glad for the way it ended. Not only it was mega beautiful (and I had no idea I could see Ed O'Neil -- Al Bundy! -- in such unbelieavably fine acting), but the intention for the 2nd season apparently was that the upgraded Yost clan would form a squad to fight a genocide against muslims (I believe I'm not kidding -- a crew member dropped that idea in the HBO forums. And it's certainly a common idea in what Milch has to say -- something in the vein of "just let one more plane hit one more building and the media keep reprising the incident as if it were perpetually happening, and people would endorse and demand for a president to commit a genocide on muslims").

But it was good. But if they'd made all episodes as filled as this one was, I'm sure we'd get much more seasons.

But it was damn good.
 
 
Ava Banana
13:11 / 17.08.07
I completely second the above post. Bill is by far my favourite character and I've even gone over some episode transcripts (as his dialogue is genius) and found some soundclips. My computer now greets me with "I'm here on orders from my bird", and instead of an error tone "We're on the precipice of a clusterfuck!". I'm ridiculously pleased with this.
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply