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You are not a fucking trickster figure.

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:39 / 11.06.07

It's the "I'm Dennis and everyone else is Mum, Dad or Mr. Wilson" thing again, isn't it. The idea that everyone else in the world is a bottomless pit of resources, easily able to accomodate any loss or inconvenience the plastic trickster puts them to.

22:56 / 11.06.07

No, South Park's creators are on record as being depoliticised and wanting to mock all things equally - which doesn't necessarily make them less funny, but does mean their work doesn't really ask any difficult or important questions

Ok, but what sort of questions would you like the creators of 'South Park' to be asking?

And, more to the point, what sort of answers would you prefer the (all right, disengenous) eight year old cartoon characters involved to come out with, anymore than they already do? There's a moral lesson at the end of most episodes.

And you as a hip-hop fan ...

Isn't Eric Cartman's position on life essentially a more likeable take on same than, say, Jay Z's?

23:01 / 11.06.07

To boil it down even more, the assumption is "I'm more important than you", the essence of selfishness. IMHO a trickster works as a cog in the social machine fulfilling an essential role for the general good. Slashing tires isn't that.
Mind you, the closest I've come to working with any trickster was roleplaying a robin hood style ragabash who stole from the rich to help his homeless chums and mocked the powerful so my opinion is largely speculation and reading.
I think puncturing asshat's arrogance has a place, but it's easy to be mean and hard to be kind. A lot of times bullying is portrayed by the attacker as comedy or satire, with the implication that the victim has no right to be upset because it was just a joke and it goes to show they are grayfaces with no sense of humour and uptight and should just chill out and smoke a bowl.

*

23:04 / 11.06.07

You know, it doesn't seem to me like anyone was saying South Park should be The Enlightening Force of the Trickster God for Great Justice. Just that some of us think it isn't.

And it sounds like Quantum might think it might be and if so he gosh darned well might be right.

Could you please Gran stop hallucinating moral imperatives where none were meant, and save your ire for the many times when I am in fact spouting moral imperatives out my arse? Thanks.

*

23:05 / 11.06.07

Also, how is hip hop related to this discussion at all? Has anyone lately proposed that Jay Z is a valid Trickster God Archetype and I somehow missed that?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:10 / 11.06.07

But Zippy, how can we criticise South Park when Jay Z is allowed to rampage through our culture without let or hindrance?

23:10 / 11.06.07

Isn't Eric Cartman's position on life essentially a more likeable take on same than, say, Jay Z's?

Cartman is a racist, self-centered, intolerant and manipulating sociopath, and also a cartoon character. Don't know if that's true of Jay-Z.

*

23:17 / 11.06.07

Clearly South Park can be a Trickster Figure because Europeans have Trickster Figures (like Loki, Hermes, Jack, Robin, and, erm, Coyote) but Black people, such as those who make hip hop, don't*.

* (Except for Anansi and the Signifying Monkey and Bre'r Rabbit and Eshu and Ti Malice.)

23:20 / 11.06.07

And it sounds like Quantum might think it might be

Nuh-uh, just thiking about Heyoka and the social role of the trickster/jester/fool, and how South Park compares, as prominent satire. Cartman's based on Archie Bunker and is in the show to display grotesque bigotry, contrasted with the other children. I think most of the underlying themes revolve around hypocrisy and prejudice, and in amongst the offensive crap, fart jokes, transphobia and virulant hatred of actors they have a benign agenda. Maybe I should go to FT&TV.

23:22 / 11.06.07

Loki, Hermes, Jack, Robin, and, erm, Coyote

I should be clear I'm talking about the social function of satire & tricksters and not any connection with Deity. I should be comparing SP to Bill Hicks or something I suppose.

*

23:24 / 11.06.07

I really couldn't say, I haven't watched it in many years, since the transphobia got too gutwrenching. I did rather like Big Gay Al though.

Tom Paine's Bones

23:30 / 11.06.07

Has there ever been a case of successful, as in non-eyestabby, entertaining, or, G'D FORBID, educational trixxxtering going on here?

Having been playing around with the search facility recently, the nearest possible candidate I've seen is Jackie Susann. That's not a perfect fit by any means, ze seems to fit more into the (genuine) devil's advocate category. But I think that the points about challenging powerful structures and asking uncomfortable questions are there at times.

Isn't Eric Cartman's position on life essentially a more likeable take on same than, say, Jay Z's?

Um. No. Just no. In one episode, Cartman reacts to another kid that's pissed him off by killing his family and feeding them to him. That's not the actions of a basically loveable scamp.

00:14 / 12.06.07

Ah, hell .. screw you guys, I'm going home!

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00:39 / 12.06.07

OMG! Enlightened! I take it all back.

00:50 / 12.06.07

I think puncturing asshat's arrogance has a place, but it's easy to be mean and hard to be kind. A lot of times bullying is portrayed by the attacker as comedy or satire, with the implication that the victim has no right to be upset because it was just a joke and it goes to show they are grayfaces with no sense of humour and uptight and should just chill out and smoke a bowl.

I know I'm going to regret putting this up in the amber time capsule of the board but...

More and more I'm finding conflict does not change anyone's mind about anything. Up ending water buckets, dumping bags of flour, and creme pie face smushing does not enlighten the opposition. When confronted with a giant inflated windbag of ego pontificating and oppressing the people you love the knee jerk reaction to insert pointy angry quip is hard to resist. It may even be impossible when you focus on the delicious next frame image of said windbag squeaking helplessly and swirling about the chandelier.

Yet sadly that's not really what happens. What usually happens is your angry response inflates the nearby windbags or reinforces the original windbag until there's no room left in the building.

I find and I'm learning that when one is invested in the person caught up in the ego inflation one's response is quite different. It's not a trickster vibe at all unless it's the self clowning to undermine the other party's fear. A difficult feat when confronting the opposition without presenting one's self as a laughable and so not worthy of hearing at all.

Rare is the trickster who can defuse tensions and so bring unity but oh, what a valued player.

01:07 / 12.06.07

More and more I'm finding conflict does not change anyone's mind about anything.

You're not kidding. After 4 hours this evening of trying to convince my boyfriend that taking away the rights of terrorist suspects is unlikely to help matters, I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth any attempt to change people's minds at all.

02:13 / 12.06.07

Bone saw and a decent pair of spreaders.

That should do it.

16:35 / 12.06.07

Cartman is a racist, self-centered, intolerant and manipulating sociopath, and also a cartoon character. Don't know if that's true of Jay-Z.

As far as I know, Jay-Z is not a racist. Or a cartoon character. He is, in fact, the exact opposite of that, of Deputy Dawg, or Huckleberry Hound, because he is a businessman.

I suppose he gave up writing rhymes about crime because they were starting to depress him - 'Crime? Yeah I did it/ Have you got a problem widdit?/ Pussy ass cracker, trynna look at my ass?/ I'll clip you, bro, and then take your honey/ And fuck that shit, I'll even take your money/ And then you'd be homeless/ how would that feel/ knowing youd been played by the real, motherfucking, deal/ Fool?/ You shit?' Etc.

Even though Jay-Z didn't actually write any of the above, the sentiments still seem to be part of his general idiom; accordingly, and however happening the beats are, isn't it going to wear you down, that sort of thing, after a while? That negativity? If I met Jay-Z he almost certainly wouldn't like me - I just don't think he would - but there still seems to be something about all these implications, world-wide, about all the ghastly things Jay-Z may or may not have got up to before he was famous, that trouble me. And afterwards, also. Particularly then. All right, Eric Cartman doesn't own a chain of shops, yet (he is a loser) but Eric Cartman is man's man, albeit an invented one, and young, whereas Jay-Z has, allegedly, moved to a quieter part of the world, where he can pursue his interests.

On the other hand, perhaps I'll go outside and re-imagine myself as a tree

17:09 / 12.06.07

um?

17:46 / 12.06.07

"Um" yourself, you philistine.

18:24 / 12.06.07

[off-topic]
imagine myself as a tree

Is that a common expression in any way in english language? Or some allusion I'm missing? I've heard before and was intrigued (mostly because I was basically "wtf?").

18:33 / 12.06.07

I am the trickster god of Barbelith and nobody can tell me any different. Because if they do, I will play a prank.

I say 'I' there, but I don't mean it. I was forced to say so.

By Mr Funny (you may have forgotten about Mr Funny, but Mr Funny hasn't forgotten about you) is ... well he seems very angry. Even more so than usual.

I've been trying to explain to him that he should maybe chill out a bit, but he won't be told.

He won't be told.

Mr Funny.

00:24 / 13.06.07

?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:38 / 13.06.07

02:53 / 13.06.07

'Crime? Yeah I did it/ Have you got a problem widdit?/ Pussy ass cracker, trynna look at my ass?/ I'll clip you, bro, and then take your honey/ And fuck that shit, I'll even take your money/ And then you'd be homeless/ how would that feel/ knowing youd been played by the real, motherfucking, deal/ Fool?/ You shit?'

Oh God. Not the "old person trying to rap" routine - "'cos it's so easy! They all sound alike anyhow!"- spare us, please.

*

05:32 / 13.06.07

I am hoping it's self-satire. Either way it's not working out particularly well.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:00 / 13.06.07

I think it's fair to say that Granny's attempts to continue discussing teh evil rappers should be dealt with in much the same manner as if Granny were to stagger up to the bar, demanding another bloody mary, having deposited the last one on a customer's head, broke every glass in the bar, and sicked on another punter's lap - to respond, politely but firmly:

"I think you've had quite enough, don't you?"

Janean Patience

07:08 / 13.06.07

There's not enough actual trickstering in this thread. I'm going off to superglue a pound coin to the floor of the Headshop, then hide around the corner videoing Haus as he tries to pick it up.

12:40 / 13.06.07

YO! I must hurry out for the minute (Potty! Potty!), but I want you all to know that I will be starting a Thread to Discuss the Banning of Alex's Grandma in the Policy at precisely 1800 this evening.

12:44 / 13.06.07

Isn't the old dear kind of like the ravens of the Tower for this place though? I thought that's why her wings are clipped with the finest bathtub gin availabe.

12:47 / 13.06.07

Of course and I understand that. That is why, for the sake of balance, I will also be starting a thread to discuss banning Flyboy (YO!).

Zeeeee will be a sad loss but sometime(s) you have to make these sacrifices.

12:48 / 13.06.07

that's why her wings are clipped

Sadly she has been making new ones from the bottle lids of the bathtub gin, she is unclipped!

13:22 / 13.06.07

Flying Granny! Alert the interceptor jets!

13:09 / 14.06.07

I think that the best way to deal with these wannabe trickster figures is to play them at their own game.

Everyone has a weak spot, and it's usually really obvious. Insecurities are normally really easy to spot - the next time some wannabe Loki forces their tiresome shit on you just go for it and (verbally) rip em to shreds.

I'm not the sort of person who generally enjoys ridiculing someone for being overweight, short, balding, having a funny voice etc but someone needs to teach these fools a lesson goaddamit.

13:26 / 14.06.07

Thread to Discuss the Banning of Alex's Grandma/ a thread to discuss banning Flyboy (YO!).

*sigh*
Im going to start a thread to discuss the banning of everyone. I think its high time we stop babying the Lith leave hir to see if can function on its own.

Everybody meet back here in 3 years?

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