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Underground > Temple >

Magick in Context and Praxis

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Unconditional Love

13:08 / 20.07.07

I am not sure, i think the occult, the hidden has remained so due to persecution by socially normative pressures, the reason perhaps being is that many of the notions contained within do challenge social attitudes, but as these more challenging attitudes transmit through pop culture albeit in a diluted form, that will change, as will the older more social governing institutions, it will come from a very simple process, people talking and communicating more and having more information than they have ever had available at any other time. The dissemination of what were once considered occult ideas or hidden notions is no longer an issue. Social conformity has become almost totally inclusive of the information required to adopt or live a certain way, anybody can gather the objects or information to become a thing, cultural identity as opposed to ethnic sexual or racial identity has become a transparent process. Self identity created through media be it magickal or other wise is a pick and mix affair as long as time is taken to consume and digest, and then process. Being the idea gives a surface level entry point into a wider body of understanding.

The depth still comes from practice and concentration, but the mixing of occulture into pop culture seems to be formulating a media structure that carries what were once considered esoteric notions, far more readily.

An idea that is starting to get far more scientific theory and validity of late has been dawkins idea of memes, its something i have been juggling with in my head especially with regards to identity. There seems to be a strong case for identity based on race, sex, ethnicity and religion, but what seems to be rising around that is cultural identity that is not dependent upon a sense of older appearences but what information of ideas people share in common, people that support certain memes and there associated trappings, seem to be relating via ideation.

This while containing many old ideas and misusing the science of memes has been making me think of late Artistic Endeavors as Representations of Complex Memetic Structures

16:43 / 20.07.07

Saturn's Nod: that's a very well written description of much contemporary occult practice, I think. Nice choice of words.

Wolfangel: If you want to discuss memes, could you please do so in another thread? It's not on topic, and neither was the rest of your post.

trouser the trouserian

10:29 / 27.07.07

Roy

at the risk of sending this thread in another direction (i.e. memes) I should point out that Dave Evans does mention Meme theory in BMAC, and in his other book Aleister Crowley and the 20th century synthesis of magick. In both books, he provides a very brief introduction to the notion of memes, but he does not discuss how meme theory could be methodologically advantageous (or not, as the case may be) for the historical investigation of contemporary occult subcultures.

Here's what Evans says about memes in his (otherwise excellent) book on Crowley:

Thelema (and Crowley’s other works) can be seen as memes, as they encourage practices that may create psychologically and spiritually ‘whole’ self-directing individuals. These individuals may, through their practice and association with like minds, meet similarly ‘whole’ individuals of the opposite sex, and have children with them. These children will grow up in a Thelemic household, thus giving a better chance that they will also become ‘whole’, and continue to practice Thelema. This may be one reason why Crowley was so despised by some elements of society, as such ‘whole’ beings would be a poor fit into the generalised ‘herd mentality’ of the early 20th Century, and the entire notion of self-directing individuals is dangerous to a State structure.

Evan's first assertion - regarding the notion that Crowley's works encourage practices that "may create spiritually whole self-directing individuals" - who then go on to form partnerships, have families and (eventually) children - who become 2nd-generation Thelemites - could be tested - it'd be a worthy piece of sociological research. There's been some work on this in the UK by David Voas, which suggests that - at least as far as "institutionalised religion" goes, children are increasingly, less likely to share the religious views of their parents.

His proposition that Crowley was "despised by some elements of society" - because he was one of these "whole beings" and therefore "dangerous to a State structure" seems to be a little piece of occult rhetoric based on a rather rose-tinted view of Crowley as a kind of Nietzschian superman-figure.

20:50 / 07.08.07

Often when people are in a context-less praxis, it's because of the ease of finding it. Taking the Invisibles as a prime example, that is the genesis of context for many of the chaotes that I know of.

I've often considered my own (limited) content and praxis in Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do fashion. Absorb what is useful for you, to paraphrase. To keep from misrepresenting, though, this isn't a surface cherry-picking of magical techniques, to absorb something, you have to understand it, and more, both do and believe it.

If one is going to decide to be a Chaos Shaman, or a Thelemite, or a Wiccan, etc, or even just use disciplines from each of these, it's not enough to 'go through the motions' as it were. You must approach each of these techniques with the full discipline and sincerity as with any other spiritual effort.

I've always got the impression that Cambell and Jung weren't necessarily saying that you can go through the motions of any particular spiritual thread to stumble into the universal truth, so much as every path is valid, so long as it is sincere.

Does sincerity provide context?

21:09 / 07.08.07

I think context what sincerity is about -- in order to keep it real, you have to have a functioning awareness of what "real" is, right?

trouser the trouserian

21:11 / 07.08.07

every path is valid, so long as it is sincere.

So it's okay to be a fascist, so long as you're like, sincere about it?

21:17 / 07.08.07

So it's okay to be a fascist, so long as you're like, sincere about it?

I don't know how heavily you're laying on the sarcasm, if at all, so I'll take it at face value; I was implying path in a spiritual sense, which is arguable individual or at the least, practiced individually amoung the group.

Fascism is not, to my mind, spiritual, nor is it praticable as an individual. Just the opposite.

22:50 / 07.08.07

Well, it might also be useful to reflect on the difference, strictly speaking, between an argument (or system) being valid and being true, or sound.

Oh, and I think most fascist ideology definitely has a spiritual dimension, just not one that most of us would consider sound (or, better yet, "good").

Witness Falangism, or, without stretching too much, E Pluribus Unum, "Out of Many, One."

23:05 / 07.08.07

Quantum:

What do people feel is the current context? What magical movement are we in now?

To borrow an artist friend of mines term, 'new traditionalism'. A return to the belief in the efficacy of traditional systems, rather than the reductionist approach that chaos magic seems to have spiraled into, but with the addition of a refusal to accept dogma, a high value placed on experiential data (which as far as I can tell was somewhat lacking in pre-chaos magic, but I could well be woefully ignorant).

However, I'm still a neo-neophyte and much of the information on magic that I've found useful AND workable has come from a small amount of posters within the Temple (*stares at Mordant and Gypsy with distinct admiration*), so I probably don't have a real handle on the 'scene'.

I would like to think that this is at least vaguely similar to what people in he future will think, simply because I feel that it's probably the best way to approach magic.

08:40 / 08.08.07

While the occult is in some sense still considered outside i can see that being the case, but as the occult becomes a part of pop culture, i do not think that will necessarily remain the case. The occult will no longer be occult.
Wolfangel888

What I see happening is a new hidden defination occurring, it is harder to find information relating to some magical practices due to the sheer amount of wicca and witchcraft books being published let alone the 'Spells To Change Your Life' ones being churned out. Whilst we have places such as Amazon and the like who are quite happy to sell to you any book they can get their hands on, it is hard to find places where you can go and have a quick look though before buying.

Personally I feel that we have to look hard for texts today, we are lucky that today we have shops which sell these things openly but then a lot of good information is being hidden by a lot of samey books as I mentioned above.

14:07 / 08.08.07

I really enjoy Wolfangel88's phrase, 'the occult will no longer be occult.,' To me, that seems a goal to strive for, to bring alternate viewings of the world to the larger context. Does that mean trying to make mystical discussions more palatable, so as to be able to be more easily ascertained by those who are less familar?

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