BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Noein

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Seth
23:05 / 03.05.07


What pin and I had planned to do today was meet up with Robinson Caruso's own a bigger boat and read the entirety of Grant Morrison's Zenith on Southampton Common. When that got postponed the little pin dude and I had to come up with a reserve plan quick, so we picked one of the many series I haven't got round to watching and blasted through around the first fourteen episodes of Noein.

Which is now a show that I cannot praise highly enough. An absolute stunner.

Five kids are facing adulthood, may be about to go their separate ways as life and education choices threaten to sunder their friendships forever. They go about making their last bittersweet summer memorable in any way they can, playing football, hunting through cemeteries for ghosts, hanging out and doing their best to enjoy their childhood while it lasts.

Yuu is a boy with problems. His mother is overloading him with her pain and expectations. He feels like he's going mad. He desperately wants to find himself but has no idea who he is.

Haruka is his best friend, maybe more than just friends. She's clever and loyal, loves life, is about the only thing keeping him sane. And she may just have the power to effect reality, to navigate and manipulate the flow of time and the infinite number of possible parallel universes.

And then everything gets turned upside down when a conflicted and psychologically scarred troop of super soldiers from an alternate apocalyptic future fifteen years away turn up with an agenda that none of them can comprehend.

The result is a mix of Stand By Me with Days of Future Past with a whole dirty hurtload of quantum physics. It's extremely funny (mostly in a tender, character based manner), has some of the best action sequences I've encountered in any film or television medium, is delicately paced and has a deep and rich vein of sadness, memory and loss behind nearly every scene. The characters already feel like childhood friends, the plotting is superb and in places the animation is staggeringly good considering that this is a twenty six episode self contained story for television (special mention must be made of the 3D rendering of Haruka's house, which rapidly becomes a character in its own right). The design work is peerless.

And that's about as much as I can say without spoiling the show with my first post. Please watch it. It's the best thing I've seen since Eureka Seven.

Can't wait 'til Tuesday when pin and I can see the rest of it.
 
 
Bear
23:17 / 03.05.07
That's one hell of a positive review, so I've added it to the torrent list although at the speeds I get it'll probably be done sometime next year.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
08:00 / 04.05.07
Please stop doing this....
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
09:21 / 04.05.07
The Barbanime clique's campaign of mutually assured time & cash empoverishment continues apace.

I have to be truthful and say that while the direction and production of this show are at the absolute forefront of TV anime, I felt like the story's execution wasn't all it could have been. I'll refrain from expanding on that until Seth and pin report that they're done watching the show. It needs reiterating though that Noein is nothing short of visually stunning, with some truly original design work, and the musical score includes the best classical-inspired pieces I've heard since Giant Robo.

One thing that this show will make you want to do, besides wish you were twelve again, is to visit the beautiful Japanese city of Hakodate, which has been scrupulously recreated for the animation and looks positively paradisiacal.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
10:49 / 04.05.07
I forgot to mention that this show also features a character who's shot to the top of my favourites lists, Kyouji Koriyama (that's him on the far left of the illustration in post #1).

Any dude who can spend days babysitting a doe-eyed scientist and her precious equipment as she drives around in circles looking for freaky quantum phenomena, without putting the moves on her, and yet thinks it's a good idea to approach two adolescent girls in the street, having not bathed or shaved for two days, and try to squeeze information out of them on the pretext of asking for directions in return for a half-empty can of instant coffee... is worth a spin-off special of his own, for certain.
 
 
uncle retrospective
11:23 / 04.05.07
Damn you Seth!! I'm in the middle of downloading Death Note (which I may have to start a thread on if it stays as good as it is at the moment), I haven't watched Ergo Proxy yet and now you spring more kick ass anime on me.
Oh well, it's only the summer, I didn't want to leave the house anyway.
If anyone wants rapidshare links for this show, pm me.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
11:48 / 04.05.07
I just finished Paranoia Agent and I'm embarking on Eureka Seven and I have Avatar on the HD and Paprika in a Torrent queue and when in God's name do you people find the time to watch all this?

Frustrating!
 
 
Essential Dazzler
13:32 / 05.05.07
When in God's name do you people find the time to watch all this?

Well I for one am failing uni, so not the best example.

Just watch the opening sequence to the first ep, the way the characters moved reminded me of Aeon Flux, all rubbery.

That is all.
 
 
Seth
14:48 / 05.05.07
One of the things that impressed me about the show is the way they use a variety of design and animation styles. There's a fight sequence in around episode twelve that lasts most of the episode in which everything goes scratchy and pencilled, as if they were creating a parallel between the speed at which they draw the action with the speed of the action itself. The sequence has so much energy, it's personal to all the characters involved and there's a great sense of exactly how much is at stake.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
16:02 / 05.05.07
Absolutely loving the apocalyptic scoring of the fights. Haven't heard much like taht outside of Computer games recently.

when are Koriyama and friend are first seen in that car, I instantly thought they were a sort of Bizarro Mulder and Scully.

Another weird resonance; When Haruku and Yuu wander down the hill and happen across the road in episode 3, I flashed back pretty vividly to Mulholland Drive.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
18:41 / 05.05.07
So many of the voice actors sounded familiar to me that I did some digging, it turns out Holland, Eureka, and Norb are all in this!

So is Ichigo's Mum!
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
11:54 / 06.05.07
Talking of which, no wonder Yuu's got problems with his mum - she's also Major Motoko Kusanagi, Lara Croft and Phoebe from Friends. I love the strange little correspondences that voice actors' diverse rôles can throw out.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
21:56 / 08.05.07
How'd you find it Seth?

I have the final 4 to watch.

Much to talk about.

I have to say I noticed a really steep drop off in my enjoyment of the series after ep 14, but it picked up at 19.

It seems weird for me to be so dissapointed by such a short run of averageness amidst such high quality stuff. Perhaps wathcing too much quality anime has raised my standards too high.
 
 
_pin
06:19 / 09.05.07
Well now. That run - which is where we picked up from - is different from the rest, but I think if they'd gone earlier in the show they'd have been much more fine then they turned out. The sudden video camera, and the wedding, et blah, just seemed to come at a time when the pace didn't need to slacken off.

I have some more stuff to say about the ending, but I'll wait until more people have seen it (when's a good time to start making a thread inaccessable to people who've not seen the show? Do these threads always make you feel like you're in a small room, and not a public message board?)
 
 
Seth
15:13 / 09.05.07
The sudden video camera, and the wedding, et blah, just seemed to come at a time when the pace didn't need to slacken off.

I disagree with you so completely here that it seems our viewpoints might be diametrically opposed. Yuu's acquisition of his family's video camera was something I was hoping that they'd make a lot more of, in that it could have become a lovely metaphor for the effect of the observer and also seemed to be giving him the direction he needed in life. Someone comments that he seems very happy with it, after all.

In fact I wish the series had totally gone for an anti-climax. Too many series descend into technobabble overload and big action set-pieces at the end. I think this should really have gone the opposite way. I loved the way the knights who accumulate throughout the series in Haruka/Yuu's present just drop their previous agenda and spend most of the time hanging out around the house with the twelve year olds, going for walks and enjoying the scenery as if being there were somehow healing them of all the pain they'd endured. This seemed to be the point of the show, so structurally I wish it had started like End of Evangelion and finished up like Azumanga Daioh. You know, if one by one they all stopped caring about whatever it was Noein was up to, because his plans seem dependent on Haruka and she just isn't interested, which effectively neutralises him as a threat.

In the final episode Noein himself joins them, Yuu tells him in no uncertain terms that he's not interested in acknowledging the path he'd have to take to become such a stalkerish obsessed adversary but invites Noein to just hang out with them.

Which he does.

And when the knight's time is up after they've endured a blissful summer's separation from their own timespace, they just fade away and it's like the ending to Winnie the Pooh.

Cue the final scene in which Haruka tells everyone that she trusts them all to stay friends after everything she's seen, no matter where they all end up, and that she refuses to use the Torc to manipulate spacetime to that effect, because to do that would just be immature.

There you go. A much better series.

However, much of what was here I loved to bits. I thought the aforementioned relationships that were forged between the knights and the children were fantastic, the way that everyone agreed that the long hot summer in Hakodate was an infinitely preferable paradise to Shangri-La's boring bog standard zero-individuality utopia. The sequences in which the fifteen-year time separated characters made friends with their younger selves were the heart and soul of the series, something that is acknowledged in the finale: it's the way we recognise each other that is the key to living a rich and happy and just plain social life. Atori became one of my all-time favourite characters as he seemed to epitomise these themes. He's a total hero, up there with Damar in season seven DS9.

I also loved the pairing of Uchida and Kooriyama. These two seemed straight out of a Satoshi Kon story, their relationship was beautifully understated, and Kooriyama himself seemed to get the lion's share of the best lines, a kind of combination of Paranoia Agent's Chief Ikari and Evangelion's Kaji.

It's the characters and relationships that made this show breathtaking in places, they're what I wanted more of. I wish they'd picked up and run with the video camera and the wedding a lot more. But still there's enough here to make it very highly recommended, and I doubt I'll see better scenes this year than the ones in which Haruka's mum and Yuu's mum just sat around getting plastered all morning and afternoon, turning their pain into laughter with a few bottles of red wine. Now that's what this show is really about.
 
 
_pin
16:25 / 09.05.07
No, I agree, those odd little episodes were really good. They were the heart and soul of my enjoyment of the series, but I never thought it wasn't going to bobbins at the end, and if you look at it like a show going to bobbins, spending a coule of hours on stuff that's never really going to be seen again takes the wind out of your big, bobbins-y showdown.

There are basically two different shows in there, and they fought, and one of them lost. Maybe Videocamera Yuu and Want-a-Friend Noein and Carcrash Haruka are in a little bubble universe, slowly becoming convinced of the injustice of the final outcome, and will one day make a comeback where Haruka positive visualisationes the show you describe while Yuu shouts "VIDEOCAMERA YUU FILMS!" and they punch a hole in between timespaces.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
17:06 / 09.05.07
Wow, the concerns I had with the show had absolutely nothing to do with Seth or pin's observations. < ageing NME reader > Were we even watching the same thing? < /ageing NME reader > Not to say that what people here loved and objected to about Noein wasn't correct and insightful; it's just that my problems came out of unfulfilled expectation. So much time and effort was devoted in the early portion of the run to the horrific prospect of what had happened to Haruka and co. in the fifteen years separating Hakodate from La'cryma that I don't think the eventual payoff hit me as hard as I was hoping. I wanted Asuka's mum levels of anguish and misery to strike those beautiful children. Instead, what? Someone got in a scrap, someone else got run over. Big deal.

I'm wildly exaggerating my glib and nasty response there for effect because I don't, having thought about it some more since, think I was right. What was tragic about the fates revealed in episode 19 (?? - don't have my copy to hand) wasn't present in the episode itself but in what preceded it. No matter how 'minor' the tragedies that befell Isami, Ai and Miho, the most important fact was that they never became adults equal to the wonderful, vibrant children we knew them as. To think about it that way makes me more confident that the writers knew what they were doing.

Of course, this series is all over the place in a lot of ways, especially in its treatment of the Dragon Knights. I once mentioned to Seth that I saw Bleach in the mix of this show, and these characters certainly had a touch of the Death Gods; but rawer and more primal than the relatively polite, quirky society of Seireitei, their monstrous, body-warping powers barely under control. Kosagi and Tobi were wasted and callously thrown away at the end of the run; Atori, brilliantly unpredictable though his character arc was, reminded me of some people's objections to the treatment of the Witch of the Waste in Howl's Moving Castle: a compellingly creepy and scary presence defanged to no great benefit before his unhinged nature could properly be examined. How a loose cannon like him got into the fold of the Dragon Knights could have made a fine, Kenpachi Zaraki-ish subplot.

I did say earlier that this show is second to none in production so I'd recommend it to anyone on that basis alone; and all of the hometown, off-plot is so sweetly done that I can't object to it. And the 'Battle' episode, with Fukurou growing to giant size to fend off the nightmarish Shangri-La invaders, is the best single piece of action TV this year.
 
 
Seth
23:05 / 09.05.07
Instead, what? Someone got in a scrap, someone else got run over. Big deal… No matter how 'minor' the tragedies that befell Isami, Ai and Miho, the most important fact was that they never became adults equal to the wonderful, vibrant children we knew them as.

I didn't think they were minor tragedies, perhaps because I regularly deal with the aftermath of car crashes and knife fights. I appreciate you're exaggerating for effect based on your reassessment of your initial reaction, but I actually found it rather refreshing that some of the horror that was experienced was just plain… mundane. Also remember that this was Noein's past, it wasn't the knight's past and it wasn't the kid's future. I think it was fitting that his anguish was so everyday. What happened in the knight's world seemed to share similarities, but Haruka didn't die in flames in the wrecked car. She died much later, a self sacrifice on the altar of averting Noein's vision of a multiverse compressed into his inhumanly paradisiacal Shangri-La.

The pain of the knight's past is wholly unspecified and all the stronger for it. I think it's actually rather wonderfully left to the imagination rather than detailed in hindsight as though it were the secret history of NERV. Firstly it's dealt with symbolically in the wrecked Hakodate that is the paradise of many of their youths. It's dealt with in the about face that virtually all of them make concerning their original mission, as one by one they all fall in love with that idyllic place and give their lives to protect it, regardless of whether it's their past or the past of someone who may be a lot like them but is not them. We know that their Haruka gave up her life to try and prevent the coming disaster. We know nothing more about Karasu's pain than that. It's all implied in the decisions they make, all in characterisation than displayed in narrative.

Primarily I think their past isn't important. They have infinite possible pasts, and to leave it unobserved by the viewer rather leaves the superposition intact for us to imagine the horrors they must have endured as the world they loved was destroyed, as well as the alluded to unimaginable pain of the reconstruction of their bodies. I don't think that's fanwanking things to fit, I think that reading of it is one hundred percent in the text. And I'm also wholly of the belief that this is the children's show, and it's their story in the present that's important. They have infinite possible futures and have been shown barely a couple of them.

I also disagree that any of the knights themselves were wasted, because I don't think that where they ended up in the finale is important in judging their heroism. It's crucial to remember that each and every one of them doomed themselves as soon as they severed their link with La'cryma. For each of them that was their defining moment of heroism, and everything they do with their time after that is them knowing that they're living on borrowed time and knowing that they will soon deteriorate in a world that they know they love but in which they also know they can't ever truly belong. Tobi wasn't wasted because of everything he chose to do knowing that he was facing the end, and he worked tirelessly to bring about the stability of the Hakodate present. Kosagi did it for the love/hate of Karasu, and ended up choosing love, sacrificing herself to destroy La'cryma's central computer. Even Atori thought he was doing the right thing initially, although he was horribly twisted in the way he went about doing it. I think it was these motives that made his reversion to innocence after his battle trauma exlplicable: he was never really a bad guy. But I think it's crucial to an understanding of these characters that they were destined to fade away, and they knew that and had decided on that. They don't need a grand finale, simply ceasing to be was what we always knew was going to happen.

My explanation for Atori's unbelievable power surge in the finale: he was the only one smart enough to realise that the uncertainty of the Shangri-La realm offered him limitless power to reimagine himself in any form he desired by altering his quantum state at will. Or perhaps he was the only one with an ego shattered enough by what he'd been through to push himself out to those extremes, his id unfettered by the lack of physical constraint in that world. Perhaps both. Karasu didn't seem to get it, he still fought and acted like Karasu. And I loved that even Noein's paradise rebelled against him, in that the hive-like End of Evangelion style mush of undifferentiated people chose to be individuated in order to defy his will and guide Yuu to Shangi-La's centre.

Ultimately the text is in agreement with Anno's take on Instrumentality as he expressed it though Shinji's rejection of the perfect world. It's an unreal fantasy realm, the sphere of many world religions' hope for paradise in which sickness, pain, suffering and death no longer exist. And as a result I feel churlish in expressing dissatisfaction with the ending, because it's saying something so wonderfully and powerfully right about humanity that I agree with in every fibre of my being. Possibly my favourite trite slogan, one that expresses much of my personal philosophy on life, is that you have to live in the world that's here. Don't hope for a better world in which all problems are solved by magic and fantasy and wishful thinking, some bland paradise in which all the pain goes away. Don't waste your life wishing, throw yourself into life and get hurt. That's the world that's here now, and we're designed to heal if we let ourselves. Risk things, make mistakes. You'll suffer but you also get the chance to be happy, if you work at it. These are the messages of Evangelion and Noein.

But ultimately someone somewhere has to make the choice to finally step out of the shadow of Evangelion. We don't need the apocalypse, the overdriven themes writ large, the universe-scale mayhem. There are different storytelling conventions you can use to end a slice of beautifully written, touching, intelligent science fiction. And possibly, maybe, the person who will lead anime sci-fi from out of that shadow is Hideaki Anno himself when he remakes his own masterpiece.

There are basically two different shows in there, and they fought, and one of them lost.

That, my friend, is bang on the money and where Noein makes its only really big mistake as far as I'm concerned. The entire direction of the text was on the children and the future that they would decide to make for themselves. The final victory should have been theirs in a simple refusal to become the people they had encountered in Noein and the knights, the Hakodate of the present succeeding where all other possible timelines had failed. But the narrative choices, the way that victory is displayed to us places it in the technobabble realms of La'cryma and Shangi-La. Yes, Haruka, Yuu, Ai, Isami and Miho all make that decision, but ultimately it became lost in the mix rather than the defining moment it should have been.

It would have been much better to have had that final victory stated in a simple "No" spoken by five twelve year olds, all wise beyond their years.
 
 
Seth
23:05 / 09.05.07
You know, I love this show a hell of a lot more having written all that.
 
 
Seth
23:30 / 09.05.07
The two elements that may need a touch of fanwank to make them work… what was the source of Haruka's power, the Torc? And who was the old man wandering through the infinity of space-time?

Let's not call him *God* in the same way that the dude at the end of Quantum Leap was *God.* We could do, but let's not.

My explanation? The old man IS the Torc, and he is another future Yuu who has decided that Haruka – and his relationship with Haruka – is the focal distress point of the crisis that is effecting all possible universes. Thus he is also operating using the principle of reversed causality and it's all a RESCUE MISSION.

Any takers with any better ideas?
 
 
Seth
00:02 / 10.05.07
Scratch that. We're told over and over that the Haruka of the Hakodate present is the Dragon Torc. Perhaps it was the wandering future Yuu who made her that way, knowing that she could be trusted with that power where he couldn't.

Man, I dislike the usage of the word *dragon* here. I've just never had much of an attachment to them, they never left the realm of sword and sorcery for me. Let's try to redeem it.

In my beloved and well used Penguin Dictionary of Symbols the commentary offers that immanent, undeveloped nature is portrayed by the ouroboros, the dragon biting its own tail. Before that it gives us a possible taster on why the Torc always shatters after each use: the breaking of the heads of serpents… [and] …of leviathan in pieces is Christ's victory over evil. Later it refers to the I-Ching: the six strokes of the hexagram, k'ien, traditionally depict the six stages of manifestation, from the 'hidden dragon,' potentiality, immanent and inactive (the torc around Haruka's neck?) to the 'swooping dragon' which returns to the First Cause (the dragon ouroboros in the sky that appears each time the torc is used? Possibly this is a visual reference to the Hermetic axiom as above, so below. As Haruka decides upon a potential reality within herself so it is made manifest in the external universe).

It doesn't make sense to examine this without also looking at the ouroboros. The commentary states: A serpent biting its own tail symbolises a closed cycle of development. At the same time this symbol enshrines ideas of motion, continuity, self-fertilization and, consequently, of the eternal homecoming.

The entry goes on to say a lot more, but I'd kinda like to leave it with just the eternal homecoming in the content of this wonderful telly show.
 
 
Seth
00:20 / 10.05.07
You know, I can't believe all our minor quibbles. Let's all agree that everyone in these threads watches much better telly than the rest of Barbelith and be done with it.

Us vs them: World War Otaku!
 
 
Essential Dazzler
00:29 / 10.05.07
Isn't this the first time there's ever not been a consensus that what we just watched was the best thing ever?

Also, why hasn't every poster seen at least one of the series we've tried so hard to keep at the forefront of the forum?

I see we go nuclear at the first opportunity.
 
 
Seth
08:38 / 10.05.07
Also, why hasn't every poster seen at least one of the series we've tried so hard to keep at the forefront of the forum?

Laziness. They just take what they're fed. TV is a convenience medium for most people. I don't think I saw it as much more than that until I got sick of it during my marriage. Snapping Turtle used to get home from work and then work in front of the telly, she watched all the soaps, cookery shows, reality TV, home improvement shows, and then would go to bed. Every night. It was at that point that I realised it only carried the illusion of convenience, it was actually amongst the most inconvenient media. I mean, if a dude came to your home, made a bunch of unfunny jokes, expected you to work to his schedule, insulted your intelligence, lied to you and then tried to sell you a bunch of stuff that you didn't want you'd quite reasonably tell him to fuck off. I don't see why that should be any different here, so when I got my own flat I renounced telly and hope never to return. It'll typically be the thing most likely to keep me out of any communal area.

So it became about DVDs for me. About a year ago I purchased about fifty quids worth of anime as I hadn't seen anything since FLCL, just mildly curious and knowing that I wouldn't be able to afford to go out a lot over the coming months and so seeing it as an investment in staying home. I was frankly blindsided by the quality of everything I'd purchased and became hooked. Thus my wallet became lighter and I became happier.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
09:19 / 10.05.07
That's the best non-churlish renouncement of TV I've ever read.

People often ask me (by which I mean that they never ask me) how I manage to watch so much anime, since I have a relationship to hold down, a house to manage, bathing and eating to take care of and various other pressures. The great thing about most of the shows we like on this forum is that they're bite-sized and easily found in purely digital form. At the start of this year I bought myself the birthday present of a handheld video player with a big-ass hard drive, got to grips with the conversion software that came with it, and these days have a pretty much unbroken pipeline from various download sites to my two by three inch pocket screen. So I can often watch as many as three or four episodes of a given show per day on public transport, in the cafe and during lunch break. 'Course, me being a sociophobic hermitlike housecat of a human helps plenty.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:04 / 10.05.07
Halfway through ep 21 Karasu is schooling Yuu on how sucky growing up is:

"Being an adult doesn't mean becoming free. We have to endure sorrow and pain unimaginable when we were still kids"

Yuu puts two and two together and works out why Karasu's so damaged, in a heartbeat.

I don't care how it all turns out now, that moment just made the series for me. Sorry, just thought I'd add that while it was fresh, back to the grindstone.
 
 
Seth
21:59 / 10.05.07
That's the best non-churlish renouncement of TV I've ever read.

Sarcasm? There was me thinking I was being deliberatley snippy.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
22:14 / 10.05.07
Oops, looks like my snippy Dradis is on the blink. No sarcarsm intended I assure you.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
09:58 / 12.05.07
Done now. My only real problem with the series were the episodes I mentioned earlier. The material within them I had no problem with, loved the video camera etc, but I think it would have served the pacing of the series far better to have absorbed it into other episodes and shortened the run to 20 episodes. I love meandering, anti-climactic character pieces as much as anyone, they are my meat and drink, and those episodes would have been perfect if that's how the series turned out, but sandwiched in the middle of plot it just felt like the bottom had fallen out.

And the mundane tragedies that befelll the characters in Noien's past were just perfect, had me shuddering, particularly Miho's fate, Isami fell in with a bad crowd, all Miho did was not have a crowd to fall in with.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
10:05 / 12.05.07
Reading the rest of the thread, that's all been said before. Forthcoming: A post of worth!
 
 
Seth
12:56 / 12.05.07
Yeah, I also felt for Miho. It must be very hard for someone like her to make friends. She's a little rich kid, she's nerdy and chubby and wears glasses and has all sorts of Fortean interests that most people will find weird or creepy. She's accepted by Haruka, Yuu, Isami and Ai, but without them who does she have except her mother? How can we grade Miho's pain against another character's pain, or the pain of a character from a different show that operates via different rules?
 
 
Essential Dazzler
13:31 / 12.05.07
How can we grade Miho's pain against another character's pain, or the pain of a character from a different show that operates via different rules?

We obviously need some kind of Suffering algorithm. We should make pie-charts and spreadsheets too.

This is an excellent plan.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:40 / 12.08.08
I've been catching up on various shows that I've missed out on - I normally don't have the time for two obsessions, but a couple of weeks off work will do wonders for sorting that out - and this is the first that I've run through in its entirety during this time. The credits on the last ep have just rolled and I might have something more substantial to add to this thread once I've given it enough time to sink in, but there are two things I wanted to say right off the bat.

First up, Seth:

My explanation? The old man IS the Torc

The show actually points towards this right at the end: the last time you see him, which I *think* is when Yu takes Haruka home with him, we see the Wanderer. The camera zooms in on his face and then out again as his eye is replaced by that of the ouroboros. And yeah, I was leaning towards the Wanderer = another Yu, there, trying to persuade myself that his eye had the same shape as Yu's (Yu, in his various forms, being the only character apart from the Wanderer whose eyes are square).

Secondly, Atori was an absolutely brilliant character and I'm properly gutted that he didn't get a decent send-off.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:14 / 22.08.08
Something I meant to comment on previously.

Seth: Also remember that this was Noein's past, it wasn't the knight's past and it wasn't the kid's future.

I don't think that's accurate. The kids in Noein's past all died in the same car crash as took out Haruka. The show confuses things a bit by focusing so much on Haruka's death in that flashback, but the rest of the cast - with the possible exception of Miho - are in the back of the car when it picks Yu up.

The interesting thing about the La'cryma cast is their motivation. I know that Karasu believes that Yu's world is the same dimension as La'cryma, so he's ultimately trying to protect it in order to wipe out his own past and give the child that was him a better hope for the future, but it's never made clear whether or not the rest of the La'cryma crew come around to his way of thinking. If they do, then there's a heavy dose of self-preservation in their decision to save Yu's world.
 
 
Seth
02:18 / 23.08.08
The kids in Noein's past all died in the same car crash as took out Haruka.

Only in Noein's past does that happen. In the knight's timeline they all grow up and are altered at the quantum level. The kids' future hasn't been written yet, they have infinite possibilities. But Noien's past isn't the kids' only possible future.

I know that Karasu believes that Yu's world is the same dimension as La'cryma

I'm sure he has a line of dialogue that contradicts that reading somewhere... that he believes its a world that reminds him strongly of his past, but that he finds it impossible to say whether it actually is or not.
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply