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The Weird Zone

  
  

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Z. deScathach
12:36 / 19.04.07
In another post, I had mentioned that objective happenings in magick were rare, and that magick is mostly subjective. I realized that in 3 decades, I've only had two. This is a thread for reporting when you have entered The Weird Zone, i.e., something seen by more than just yourself, and strange enough to defy rational explaination.

An example might go like this. You and your friend have both carefully planned a ritual for *insert noble intent here*. You've carefully banished and consecrated the ground, marked sacred space, and assembled your tools. You and your friend begin to ground, center and still your minds, when suddenly, a shadowy figure appears at the edge of the circle.

It says, "Hi, y'all"....and vanishes.

You look at your friend to see that s/he is already looking at you with a jaw dropping look. The conversation goes something like this....

You: S**T! Did you see that?!
Your Friend: F****ng hell yes! Why did it say, 'Hi, y'all'?!
You: I dunno! Maybe it was Elvis?

Here are the rules for reporting The Weird Zone:

1. It must have been witnessed directly by you.

2.It must have been witnessed by at least one other person.

3.It must strain rational explaination, i.e. a knife falling from an overloaded drying rack in the kitchen doesn't count. Now if the knife flies out of the drying rack and buries in the ceiling, as long as it's seen by someone else other than just you, that counts.

4. NO DEBUNKING! I truly believe that the universe on rare occasion sends us this stuff to tell us, "See? You're on the right path, it's actually REAL!" So, although it might be tempting to say, "Well, a shift in the plate of rock under the house may have shifted, causing a magnetic field to cause the knife to fly into the ceiling", restrain yourself for the above reasons.

I'll start.

I was on the verge of a move to Minneapolis, Mn., for various reasons that I won't go into for space reasons. Suffice to say that it was the most risky thing that I had ever done. I was going on a bus to strange city that I'd never seen, with no place to live, and four hundred dollars in my pocket. I was to depart that evening.

I went to the local convenience store, to purchase a burrito. At the store, a woman was seated on the curb, she said hi to me. Somehow, we got on the topic of spirituality, and then magickal practice. She told me that she had practiced magick for some time, and we got into talking shop.

I invited her over to my house and the conversation went on for hours. It had gotten dark, and my roommate had gone to bed. I had to leave in about 4 hours. At that point, I distinctly felt the room chill. The whole atmosphere went funny.

"Do you feel that?", she asked. I replied that I had.

"Something is here, you should banish", she said, and I agreed. I went to the bedroom to get my tools and that's when I found my roomate curled in a fetal position on the floor, her eyes were wide open, but she was unresponsive. I performed the banishing, at which point she came to, and the woman and I helped her to the bed. To this day, I believe that she had tested me.

People may say that these sort of experiences should be kept close to the vest, and that sharing them will reduce one's magick. I disagree, and here's why. Because we live in a world where consciousness is increasingly being denied and believed to be a mere side effect of brain chemicals, while at the same time, other sciences are offering the possibility that the universe may be far stranger than we think. I do keep my practices VERY close to my vest, and most of my experiences as well, but I believe that it's important that we perhaps are able to share that rare moment that says, "See? I'm the universe, and I'm far bigger and stranger than you'll ever know." In a time when we as a species are mentally cutting our universe down to size, we need to tell each other, "See? It's still really....really....big....." Or maybe not, it's up to you.

Besides, if Phil Hine can tell his "thing on the landing" story, why shouldn't I be able to tell mine?

So gather around the virtual campfire and tell your spooky stories.
 
 
Z. deScathach
12:38 / 19.04.07
Oh, and if you haven't had something like this happen to you, don't worry about it. I'll bet odds that eventually you will.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
14:51 / 19.04.07
This one time, at band camp... :P

So anyway, I was at my favorite nightclub and had been doing some dynamic energy exchange with ambient energy on the dance floor, taking it in and putting it out with a specific flavor to it in order to make it really buzz, and I had a bit of exctasy, speed, and alcohol in my system.

I ended up going to a convenience store to use the cash machine but it was in use by a woman, who I think was a prostitute, and two men, so I started talking to the guy behind the counter to pass time. Time passed and the trio was still using the machine, and silly drugged up paranoid me decided that they were doing something dodgy and that I should get out of there, though not before mentioning this to the sales clerk, who got very upset at the suggestion and called up someone as I left.

I was in a part of town that on the surface is all pretty but underneath is very seedy and dangerous, and being somewhat drug fucked and in a 'trance zen dance' state, I came to the conclusion that I had pissed off the wrong people with my observations; the energy back at the club felt all wrong, and so I sat outside across the street for some fresh air and quiet time, though the feeling of danger kept growing.

Suddenly on the 200metre long street I was on, all street lights went out; I noted that the side streets lights were still on, and decided it was time to leave. The thing was that when I got to those side streets, the lights would go out; at first they were entire banks of them, with me scared to death, but as I got further away from the club and calmed down (as "they're out to get me" turned into "they're out to scare me") the lights went out in less and less numbers till they were individually going out, just as I walked beneath them; I even started to play with it a bit by crossing roads, but still it occurred.

Looking back on it I'm pretty sure that the experience was real though the thoughts behind it were without basis, but they induced a fear that resulted in me being the one to switch off the lights instead of the criminals I was running from; I've tried to consciously effect lights in the same manner since then, but at best I just get a massive migraine.
 
 
Doc Checkmate
15:34 / 19.04.07
that's when I found my roomate curled in a fetal position on the floor, her eyes were wide open, but she was unresponsive. I performed the banishing, at which point she came to, and the woman and I helped her to the bed.

Personally, I would have evoked an ambulance to visible appearance, as quickly as possible.
 
 
Z. deScathach
16:19 / 19.04.07
Actually, she did see a doctor later. She came to right away, with no problem, and did not wish to see a doctor. In the locale in which I lived you could not force someone to go into the emergency room, even if they are literally dying. If someone does not wish to go, you can't make them, no matter their condition. I had a friend who left the hospital with a subdural hematoma. I called the ambulance and she refused to go in. I was told that they couldn't force her. I finally told her that if she wanted to die in my apartment, that was OK, I just wasn't going to watch it. Apparently she didn't want to die alone so she finally called. Turns out if she had waited ten more minutes she would have been dead. So in that way I had no choice, someone who stubbornly refuses to go in could not be forced.
 
 
Z. deScathach
16:29 / 19.04.07
BTW, the incedent remains inexplained. She was fine for many years afterwards, we eventually lost touch. The doctors found no brain changes that could account for what happened.

I hope that the matter is settled.
 
 
EmberLeo
18:45 / 19.04.07
Oh geez, I forget to think about this kind of incident different from the more obviously subjective kind, you know?

Well, In the beginning... When I was little both my older sister and I saw The Man In The Window. We only saw him after bedtime, and we tended to see him sepparately as far as I know, but we each reported him to our parents without telling eachother about it until years later.

What's weird is that we didn't see exactly the same thing, we just saw incredibly similar things. What I saw was a short fellow, slightly round, with pale skin so white it wasn't realistic. He had those kind of sunglasses that are totally dark, and perfectly round. He wore a bowler hat and a black suit. He was semi-transparent from about the waist down. He would have to have had a step-ladder, or have been very tall to have stood outside that particular window, but I didn't realize that until years later. He would just come and stare at me. I didn't like him at all, so I would just suck my thumb and stare back - basically willing him to stay the fuck out of my space. When I got too scared to play the staring game, I'd yell for my Dad, and the man would be gone when I looked back.

My sister describes a tall, thin man in a black suit, same glasses, same hat, same skin, except that he stood in the other window, which he would cheerfully open, and interact with her by mimicking her. She apparently thought he was kind of funny. That particular window would have required that he be either very short, or kneeling way down, because it's on the side of the house where the patio is built up with a planter box and the entrance to the crawl space beneath the house. That window has been taped shut since before I was born, I'm told, and it still is - the tape isn't broken.

I'm still scared of the Man in the Window. I've had several theories as to what, exactly, he was. These days I tend to accept that it was a path of Papa Ghede, but "it was a ghedes" doesn't narrow it down much.

--Ember--
 
 
Triplets
03:12 / 23.04.07
I've tried to consciously effect lights in the same manner since then, but at best I just get a massive migraine.

I point you to Streetlight Phenomena, which you may or may not know about.
 
 
Dutch
05:44 / 23.04.07
This happened about a year ago and I still find it really strange, thinking back on it.

Two friends and I had shared some x and were walking a long way to my female friend's house. We were all pretty quiet, not talking very much and walking a bit apart from each other when suddenly I felt "pulled" towards a grassy field. I stood somewhere in the middle, extending my arms, closing my eyes. My female friend walks up to me and asks me: "what are you doing?" My reply was: "something really nasty happened right here not too long ago."

She told me someone had been stabbed to death there a week before.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
13:09 / 23.04.07
Yes Triplets, I've encountered both those who claim it happens to them on a regular basis and with some degree of control, and those who have attempted to debunk the idea; mostly I'm in the later category not because of a disbelief of the possibility, but an awareness of what sort of skill it'd take to do it at will.
 
 
HCE
14:25 / 23.04.07
Because we live in a world where consciousness is increasingly being denied and believed to be a mere side effect of brain chemicals, while at the same time, other sciences are offering the possibility that the universe may be far stranger than we think.

Sorry, but I don't understand how consciousness can be both denied and believed to be a side effect of etc. Or are those two different groups of thinking, one of which denies consciousness and the other of which says that it is a side effect?
 
 
crimson
03:36 / 11.05.07
Is there a better place to put this? Noone else observed it. Just me.

A little while ago I was at Koyasan. Its a magical place. A collection of monasteries on the plateau of a mountain in south japan. The first Japanese teacher of Buddhism, who learnt about Buddhism in China was granted Koyasan by the emperor to establish monasteries and schools. Its a beautiful place. Its surrounded by eight mountains representing tenents of the branch of buddhism, the Shingon school. I want to share being in this beautiful place and sitting in a monastery. I became aware I could see energy, a field, in my line of sight. It was close, I could discern swirling clouds of black patterns in the air. Then I could see the energy very closely, swirling, chaotic, motes of dancing light. It was very beautiful. Koyasan is an amazing place, its beautiful and steeped in history, I wanted to share my experience. Is there an appropraite thread?
 
 
Lord Switch
07:59 / 11.05.07
Firstly i would like to point out that magickal experience is not mostly subjective. Microcosmic occurences have a tendency to be subjective because most practitioners perceive them from their own viewpoint. for instance if you invoke or evoke something 80% of it will end up being your subjective view of that force and only 20% will be the actual objective force. This can and does tilt through practice, as the aim of magick, at least theurgic, shamanic western ceremonial and probably most hoodoo/voodoo/etc based stuff as well. Thereby we can actually overcome and transcend the forces we work with and actually manifest the 5=6 6=5 formula.

Now, to get on with my experience, I've had several occurences of this sort, though I would like to share the most powerful one with you this happened during actual ritual, and not just out of the blue, but I hope it still qualifies.
.

In the end of 2004 I was away doing some theurgical work with some people. The main reason we went there was because we were going to get some papers on the Elus Cohen and work with some of the big masters of the system. At that point in my life I was inclined towards a more rational explanation of magickal practices. But I thought, nevermind, I am getting results, who cares if its subjective or objective. After we sit down the guy walks up and does the lecture on the system of Martinez Pasqually, he extolls the virtues of theurgy and explains a lot of very difficult christian-kabbalistic concepts. Feeling the need to play the devils advocate and leaning heavily on my one system=allsystems=the same thing paradigm, I am one of the first people to ask the question: "but does it work, or is it all in your head? "

The guy smiled and with his annoying french accent pointed out that If I was truly doubting I was probably in the wrong place doing the wrong system, but we might as well put theory into practice. He asked one of my collegues to fetch some braziers, coal and incence, and bottled water. he took his coat off, and starting drawing things on the floor with a small piece of chalk he had in his pocket. Asking us to chant certain parts from the papers he had given us. (we had been given this ritual as an example during his lecture) 30 minutes later we washed our feet hands and faces in the water, stepped into the circle and faced the direction. They guy goes down on his knees, lights the incence, prays a bit in hebrew..then i scream. You know the feeling when you're listening to loud music, someone sneaks up on you, you turn, see them with your eyes, but then your brain registers something and you get scared so you jump and scream? That's what happened. There was this big, odd looking woman, with her eyes stung out, black stuff flooding from them, and tattered wings. The room got remarkably colder and it felt like we were on a rollercoaster. One of us threw up. The whole physical vision lasted about half a minute, enough to be able to blink and look again. She was there, she had been there.

Then she was gone. I was queasy for hours afterwards and felt like I had eaten something bad. Now, i don't know how he managed to do it, the rational part of me tells me he had put LSD in the chalk. that the myrrh we used was laced with something. There has got to be a rational explanation! Right? The non-rational part of me, the part that does my rituals daily, that prays and does ritual magick and that expects physical results when i work sorcery demands me to fully believe.
And I do.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:34 / 11.05.07
Post modified at request of writer. Unnecessary sarcasm which was not in the least bit funny.

Apologies to anyone offended.
 
 
Olulabelle
10:41 / 11.05.07
Yeah. Or, we could just take the piss.

I don't think it's helpful to make a mockery of the people who are posting in this thread. Equally I am unsure what the threadstarter wishes to acomplish. It could end up being a very messy thing what with it's determination to avoid examination. Perhaps discussion of weird occurances is fundamental, if only in order to identify the really weird.
 
 
illmatic
10:49 / 11.05.07
Scientist, if you want to debunk stuff, start another thread, eh? I'd be happy with something like that existing with the Temple and I think it's perfectly within it's remit.

I can appreciate the desire for "no debunking" - a common phenomena if you do engage with any magical or spiritual practice is trying to talk yourself out of it if anything weird does happen. Our minds are endlessly creative and we can spin this both ways. We can create and delude, as you know, equally we can deny and refuse to accept, especially when something scares us. I'll post an example later, but I've got to rush off now.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:51 / 11.05.07
Fair enough.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:06 / 11.05.07
Cut'n'pasted and expanded on a bit from the Convo Pager thread...

Yeah, some of what's being reported sounds pretty out-there, but if you do teh hmadjyykx long enough then positively bizarre stuff will occur in your vicinity. I'm dubious about the no-debunk rule, but I can see why it's there. (BTW, I'm not saying anyting about the posters to this particular thread but I would say that this kind of thing has a tendancy to attract attention-seekers. Not everyone who posts to a thread like that is going to be telling the whole truth about their experiences.)

I'm all for experiential discussions--in fact I think that's when the Temple is it its finest--but I've got my reservations about this thread.

I don't really need magic weirdshit to remind me that the Universe is big and strange--Astronomy Photo of the Day or a good nature documentary will do that just fine. I'm unconvinced that reporting this kind of thing is always a great idea. It can sort of turn into... titillation, I guess... chasing after the shiny things while the stuff that's really important gets sidelined. Reading about X amazing thing that's happened to some other practitioner can give you a charge and inspire you at times, but IME it's a bit like a sugar rush--a short artificial boost followed by an inevitable crash.

Magic at its heart isn't about weird shit happening or spooky people showing up behind your shoulder. It's about long-term commitment, embracing a meaningful practice and pursuing it, seeing the results manifest in your life over years and decades. A lot of those results won't be things you can demonstrate or even put into words, but they are where the magic is.
 
 
illmatic
12:05 / 11.05.07
I'm dubious about the no-debunk rule, but I can see why it's there.

Yeah. I think I carry certain assumptions about my practice which make a no debunking rule "acceptable" in a sense. It took this thread to make me think that maybe not everyone else shares them.*

Firstly, I accept that it might all be in my head anyway. I might be making it up (I don't actually really think this. certainly about some aspect of my experience) but I think it's a good rule of thumb to refer back to. Secondly, I try and think critcally about whatever happens. It's a balancing act between uncritical cosmic gormlessness and hard arsed explaining away.

I think if you're not doing these things a "no debunking" rule could be a bit dangerous.

*I mean in general, the discussion around the thread had caused me to recall that, I'm not directing that comment at people in the thread.
 
 
Olulabelle
12:44 / 11.05.07
uncritical cosmic gormlessness

Fabulous.
 
 
EvskiG
13:42 / 11.05.07
I don't intend to debunk, but just thought I'd share this quote:

When anyone tells me, that he saw a dead man restored to life, I immediately consider with myself, whether it be more probable, that this person should either deceive or be deceived, or that the fact, which he relates, should have really happened. I weigh the one miracle against the other; and according to the superiority, which I discover, I pronounce my decision, and always reject the greater miracle. If the falsehood of the testimony would be more miraculous, than the event which he relates; then, and not till then, can he pretend to command my belief or opinion.

- David Hume
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
16:10 / 11.05.07
Most of the time when my b.s detector goes off, I register it and stop paying attention to whomever set it off, unless they're feeding it to others in a harmful manner. Some of the time my b.s detector goes off on myself, in which case I register it and explore what's going on, almost as much as I do when it doesn't go off.

Self delusion sucks, especially when you know its there.
 
 
Quantum
16:51 / 11.05.07
Firstly i would like to point out that magickal experience is not mostly subjective. Microcosmic occurences have a tendency to be subjective because most practitioners perceive them from their own viewpoint. for instance if you invoke or evoke something 80% of it will end up being your subjective view of that force and only 20% will be the actual objective force. This can and does tilt through practice, as the aim of magick, at least theurgic, shamanic western ceremonial and probably most hoodoo/voodoo/etc based stuff as well. Thereby we can actually overcome and transcend the forces we work with and actually manifest the 5=6 6=5 formula. Lord Switch

Switch, could you please expand on this a bit? Maybe some editing has made it confusing. What's the 5=6 6=5 formula? When you say "if you invoke or evoke something 80% of it will end up being your subjective view of that force and only 20% will be the actual objective force" where are you getting those figures from? Are you using a special definition of subjective? I'm confused especially by Microcosmic occurences have a tendency to be subjective because most practitioners perceive them from their own viewpoint because it's my understanding we all perceive everything from our own viewpoint, and that is what 'subjective' means. Maybe another thread?

re: Ev G's Hume quote, I believe his empiricism led him to conclude that even if you are brought back to life yourself and experience it first hand and shake hands with God, witnessed by a thousand people, it is still more likely (in the balance-of-evidence sense) you were all deluded.
I, personally, find that to be too high a threshold for belief. I saw a ghost once, with four friends, and I can't explain the experience we witnessed. Hume would have me rationally assert that we were all imagining it or deceived or something, but I was there, my mind and eyes were clear. I find it more likely something happened that's difficult to explain that we all witnessed, and less likely something happened that's difficult to explain that resulted in a multiple causeless shared hallucination of a hospital bed, when we were on the site of an old hospital. Occam's razor favours simplicity, and if the 'rational' explanation is more convoluted and unlikely than the mystical one then you end up doing Apophenia's balancing act.
 
 
EvskiG
18:03 / 11.05.07
re: Ev G's Hume quote, I believe his empiricism led him to conclude that even if you are brought back to life yourself and experience it first hand and shake hands with God, witnessed by a thousand people, it is still more likely (in the balance-of-evidence sense) you were all deluded.

I don't know if that's Hume's position, but I know that's not in the quote I posted.

The quote I posted doesn't even deal with things that you personally experience first-hand -- just information that's relayed to you by another person.

I saw a ghost once, with four friends, and I can't explain the experience we witnessed. Hume would have me rationally assert that we were all imagining it or deceived or something, but I was there, my mind and eyes were clear.

I don't think you're being fair to Hume.

Seems to me he merely would say that you should weigh the probability of a ghost against the probability that you were "imagining it or deceived or something," and should choose whichever, based on an assessment of all the circumstances, is more probable.

Oh -- and the 5=6 6=5 formula is a bit of Golden Dawn jargon. I assume Switch is referring to Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.
 
 
Quantum
18:22 / 11.05.07
I don't think you're being fair to Hume.

Sorry, I should be more clear- I had to study Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding and he was an arch-empiricist. That quote is a part of his refutation of miracles-as-violation-of-natural-law IIRC, saying that it is never *rational* to believe in a violation of natural law, because all the evidence of the law working is much more than the evidence for the violation. e.g. if you see someone fly, the millions of times you've seen gravity work will outweigh that evidence, so you shouldn't rationally believe it. You're right, it isn't in that quote, I should have been clearer.

I thought 5=6 probably was GD jargon, and jargon raises my hackles- I want the Temple to avoid deliberate esotericism where possible. Switch could just have easily written it in a way someone who'd never heard of the GD could understand instead of Thereby we can actually overcome and transcend the forces we work with and actually manifest the 5=6 6=5 formula which reads as deliberately obscure to me. I hope I'm not being overly spiky or unfair.
 
 
EvskiG
19:30 / 11.05.07
That quote is a part of his refutation of miracles-as-violation-of-natural-law IIRC, saying that it is never *rational* to believe in a violation of natural law, because all the evidence of the law working is much more than the evidence for the violation.

I still don't think you're being fair to Hume.

Nothing in the Enquiry (as I understand it) means that weird things can't happen.

First, weird things can happen that comply with the laws of nature as we presently understand them.

Second, weird things can happen that don't comply with the laws of nature as we presently understand them, but do comply with the laws of nature as we eventually will understand them.

Third, weird things can happen that violate the laws of nature. ("Miracles," as Hume refers to them.) However, since these are very, very improbable, they should require extraordinary proof.
 
 
Lord Switch
20:25 / 11.05.07
Momentary off Topic here: I was actually not delibaretely obscure by using the 5=6 reference at all. I merely assume that most people are aware of certain fundamental aspects of the western system when discussing magick, as there are plenty of threads on barbelith which deal with it. In the same way as I am not going to write a complete explanation of what I mean by referring to earthy, or lunar energies, not because I am trying to be arsy but because I am using a symbol language inherent in western esotericism and it makes communication easier. I am not a fan of assuming personality, or gender traits for that matter on someone just because of the use of specific jargon. The statement that I was delibaretely obscure is a bit insulting as that would imply that I was some form of armchair holier than thou occultist. Which I am not as people who have read any previous posts of mine, where I am discussing and explaining things as best as I can could vouch.

back to topic:

Quantum: this may be a different thread, use your judgement, if it is, then start it and I'll post.

Regarding the 5=6 and the objective subjective. To elaborate what I meant was something along these lines:

Most users of magick start as humans and therefore we are stuck in a highly subjective world. When we contact any force, be it archetypal, Gods, elemental or planetary energies, what happens is that we perceive them from inside our own ego, from inside our own aura nand therefore we color it.

Example: You and me both contact Odin. The entity that appears and communicates with us will be Odin in essence, but "coloured" by my preconceptions and knowledge of the deity, in the same way with you. The idea with most mysticism and magick is to break out from this shell, this ego and surpass it. Unlike what someone wrote about me probably referring to the K&C of the HGA earlier with this, I meant no such thing.
What I instead meant was that through practice, using ritual, theurgy or devotion one can usually and hopefully surpass one's own sense of self and ego, thereby the forces that one contacts will be less and less "coloured" by ones preconception.

A example might clarify what I mean

Newb invokes Mars:
Expects: Violence Anger War
an obkective asociation: Mars rules sharp objects and accidents.
result: Newb gets an archetypical image that corresponds to his expectations but some of the original comes through.
If the force is a light with a specific colour, then our ego/aura/sphere of sensation/flow of chi is like a plastic see thourgh umbrella. when the actuall colour is filtered through the umbrella mix the result is a bit different.

red light+yellow umbrella=reddish orange

What I mean with manifesting the 5=6 and 6=5 is that we aim to get to such a close approximation of the objective force by surpassing our ego that in the end, instead of us being the 5 (microcosmos) staring across the = (the umbrella ) into the 6 (macrocosmos) we change places and become the macrocosmos (6) staring down through a looking glass (=) unto the microcosmos (5). This may or may not have anything to do with the HGA and I wasn't implying such tradition specific concepts.

This applies just as much to pagans as to hoodooists and ceremonial magicians. --------------

Disclaimer: I have said again and again that english is not my first language and I am genuinely not trying to sound arrogant. As we are all on barbelith to share what we can I hope to share what I can and learn from others. The fact that I use a specific way of referring to things shouldn't be too much of a problem should it?
 
 
Quantum
21:24 / 11.05.07
Nothing in the Enquiry (as I understand it) means that weird things can't happen.

For sure. I think his point was that once you had enough evidence then the miracle wouldn't be a violation of natural law any more, it would be the new natural law, and thus not a miracle.
What I took from it though, was that acceptance of miracles and magic is based on faith rather than reason, like the acceptance of induction and causation on faith rather than reason (does that make sense?).

Switch- I'm sorry, I didn't realise this is your second language, my apologies. I do think though that just because there is a thread on something doesn't mean everyone is familiar with it. Lots of people know a lot about one area and not so much about others, so I think it's best to assume your reader doesn't know about the HGA, or Odinic rites, or sigils or whatever. That way the forum is more accessible to people getting into magic, and people find posts easier to understand.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:43 / 11.05.07
Absolutely. To say you are assuming knowledge of certain fundamental aspects of the western system when discussing magick is area arrogance in one aspect; your fundamental aspect may not be the same as mine.
 
 
*
01:47 / 12.05.07
Ditto. I could equally assume that when I talk about eating salmon you'll understand that obviously I'm speaking of trance-state divination, since that's a fundamental aspect of Celtic druidry which is, after all, foundational to Western magic. One of the great things about this board is that people from all kinds of different traditions get to explore one another's traditions in all their differences and similarities.

Weird Zone: I know there's a rational explanation for this one, and I even think I know what it is, so it falls under synchronicity rather than inexplicable high weirdness. Even so. Last night, as I was coming back from a five elements class (I'm taking elements of magic with some reclaiming Wiccans as part of following Vizzini's advice—"When the job gets screwed up, go back to the beginning") I was crossing part of the University campus at around 11:30 or so when I saw a pulsing light. It came from the top of a pillar that I had seen before, but this was the first time I'd really looked—and found that it was in fact a pillar with four faces, each inscribed with many symbols of the four directions/elements, symbols from all kinds of different traditions. I walked around it several times, and touched it, and generally admired it as an interesting, and coincidental, piece of sculpture that was new to the campus. Then, being tired, I went home. This morning as I crossed that same part of campus, it was entirely gone, with no trace it had ever been there.
 
 
Make me Uncomfortable
04:40 / 12.05.07
At a wilderness camp in my teens in Northern California, one of the older councilers explained that the building that now housed the laundry machines used to be a bordello, and that in the 1860s a few miners had stabbed a prostitute to death and tossed her into the river. Apparently, her ghost, the Red Woman, haunts the camp.

About two weeks later, I woke up in the middle of the night, as did another male camper about thirty feet away. We were sleeping in sleeping bags on tarps under open sky, so we could both see each other clearly. We could also both see the two blood red lights, each about four times brighter than a candle, occilating and moving towards us through a field a hundred feet away, as if they belonged to an invisible body.

I turned to the other camper. I put my hands together and rested the side of my head against them, the sign for "sleep". He nodded. We looked back at the lights, which were still drifting closer, and both lay down. I hid my head under the covers and fell asleep.

I drempt of that the Red Woman was hovering over me. Her dress was torn and bloody, her tears falling on me. I could not move.

I woke up just after dawn, and still could not move, for about five minutes. When I finally regained my ability to move, I sat up. The other male camper did too. We stared at each other.

"Did you..."
"Hovering over me."
"Red dress?"
"She was crying, too."
"Fuck."

We never talked about it again, and I never saw the Red Woman again, either.
 
 
Olulabelle
07:32 / 12.05.07
Both those stories are wonderful. I am enjoying hearing about peoples experiences, it makes for compelling and fasciniating reading.
 
 
akira
11:35 / 12.05.07
A few years ago I went nuts and had a break down. Whist being completely off me head I decided to go for a walk (I was actually looking for a yellow hovercar that would take me back in time), I walked out of my house, started down the street, then walked past this guy and thought to myself "that guys an angel" and turned my head and looked at him as he did the same. So eventualy I end up in the psychiatric ward (only there a few days), and guess whos there making a cup of tea? That guy I walked past.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
11:35 / 12.05.07
Most users of magick start as humans and therefore we are stuck in a highly subjective world.

When mountains are mountains

There is an old saying in Zen: “In the beginning, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers; later on, mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers; and still later, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers.” My own master, Reverend Master Jiyu-Kennett, put it this way, “In the beginning, all is different; later on, all is one; and then again, all is one and all is different.” These sayings refer to the course of our Buddhist training over long periods of time. In other words, things change; they change profoundly over the course of a life of training. These changes take time, and they only occur to the extent that we actually do the practice. Though they take time, and time is necessary, time alone is not sufficient. It takes great time and great practice.
 
 
misterdomino.org
19:56 / 12.05.07
A few years ago I went nuts and had a break down

I always assumed that the people who are observed as 'being nuts' would have some type of explanation for their unusual behavior, other than just 'being nuts'. But anyway, did that guy do anything angel-like? Give you some good advice or a massage or anything?
 
  

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