Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Radio & Music >

Notes on Rockism

Page: 1(2)

All Acting Regiment

13:19 / 13.04.07

Yeah, I think you might OTM there, PM. Except - couldn't the Smiths be seen as a dramatic break with the idea of "rock", by being "soft", "intellectual", and wearing glasses and daffodils? Of course that doesn't seem to take away from their nostalgic adoption of an '1890s'/'Romantic' yet 'Working Class' mythology...

Also - w/regards to Modernism wanting a break with the past. I wonder - what about the 99% of Pound's Cantos that take place in Renaissance Italy, or Greece, or Confucian China - and what about The Wasteland, and the ideas Flyboy paraphrased above from Eliot's 'Tradition and the Individual Talent' (an essay which Fly is dubious about but which I think nearly always holds true in the case of poetry)?

I suppose in these cases it's the form rather than the content that gets radicalised - but ideas and images from the past are still being returned to.

I think the dynamic for the next 2-3 years will be less about rock vs. pop (because that boundary is neither contested nor interesting) or even black/white, male/female but rather those that wish to unite different strands of music (in a way different to the "anything goes" apathy of eclecticism) vs. those who wish to pursue their own strands into gentle oblivion.

This seems right too. Certainly, the former bunch seem to be making the most vital music of the moment.

14:07 / 13.04.07

Allecto> Interesting point about The Smiths - but arguably image-wise they were combining pre-existing non-macho models (e.g. Marc Bolan, Soft Cell) with a boho intellectualism that you could find in The Fall. Most importantly the sonics of The Smiths were largely drawn from the 60s. There is no sense of "Year Zero" with The Smiths. I would really like to hear a convincing argument for Morrissey as Futurist.

So forget poetry for a moment and think about modernist art & architecture. These might sometimes draw on classical inspiration but the form is radicalised. And I think the form needs to be where our focus is. The content of most pop songs is about love - but think of the difference between "Love Me Tender" and "Love Like Anthrax". Which are both great songs BTW.

The really interesting music (for me) is occurring where people end up having to make hybrids because they have to (or are driven to) - rather than because eclecticism is cool.

Carioca Funk, Kuduro, Hyphy, all great stuff...

14:17 / 13.04.07

I suspect the Rock narrative has more to do with individualism than modernism -- although rock does seem to enjoy some of the stripped-down functionalism that modernism valued, I think it's more about, say, Bruce Springsteen writing a few songs and playing in garages and getting a band together and being admired as an individual, as opposed to Cristina Aguilera becoming, as someone said above, the Diva, and being produced and choosing metiers in which to sing and entering this production (that's two different senses of the word "produce").

Personally, I think pop exists above the rock narrative. And just having written that, the modernism vs. postmodernism thing suddenly makes sense again. There's one rock narrative, but pop seems to use narratives interchangeably as part of what it is.

23:22 / 13.04.07

grant> Nice reply. I would add:

"I suspect the Rock narrative has more to do with individualism than modernism"

Possibly true. And that individualism is there in the blues as well (in fact even more strongly - the bluesman is a loner). But there's tension in rock between being an outlaw & being part of a community. N.B. Rock is experienced collectively at concerts.

Springsteen is a case in point. He is both "Born To Run" (an outlaw) & "Born In The USA" (concerned with social justice for others).

"There's one rock narrative, but pop seems to use narratives interchangeably as part of what it is."

I am not sure there is just one rock narrative. I think one rock narrative has been constructed over time by critics, audiences & musicians - many threads mashed together into one. But that's not the only story that has been told about guitar-based music - or that is tellable.

Pop's use of many narratives - will have to think about that.

Page: 1(2)