BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Notes on Rockism

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:33 / 10.04.07
1)

I was thinking, recently - a lot of the force of Rockism when it manifests generally comes from the assumption (of the Rockist) that everyone hates them/hates their kind of music in a way that is a) unjustified and b) far more violent/unacceptable than anything the Rockist might come out with in 'self defense' (about, say sexually assaulting Britney Spears or something). Does this sort of sentiment actually exist outside of the Rockist's head? Surely not?

2)

Would the Rockists of yesteryear (circa 60s - 70s) see eye-to-eye with today's Rockists (NME, Paul Morley etc)? It strikes me that although the NME would love to posit an unbroken chain between the stuff they're promoting (Kooks bla bla) and, say, The Stones, maaan, the Rockist past would be just as hater on today's version...and what about Metal? Is Metalism part of Rockism, or does metal's relative ghettoisation (w/in 'Rock') make it separate from the blokeindie vs Shakira 'debate'?

Heck, I've even seen people lining up 'Sabbath', 'Hendrix' and sodding Buddy Holly against Sonic Youth, Pixies, et al ... odd, because there again the 90s loud-quiet indie-noise thing saw Black Sabbath as an influence, didn't they?

Also feel free to use thread for general discussions/lamentations of the form...
 
 
at the scarwash
19:44 / 10.04.07
Perhaps not entirely pertinent to the discussion of Rockism, but why "sodding" Buddy Holly? I mean, his recordings don't exactly fit the supposed preening, self-absorbed macho auteur Rockist paradigm. Rather, at least in my humble etc., they come across as tastefully minimalist pop jams.

I mean, slag on Oasis all you like, but if you're going to call out Buddy Holly, you need to justify it.

And anyway, isn't the idea of Rockism basically a critical straw man created to attack artists that one believes for one reason or another (usually because of an article in Q or the NME hailing them as bearers of some imaginary standard) to represent "Rockist" tendencies?

And yes, tendencies, because Rockism is not an ideology, but a perversion, and all of those poor kids in their garages listening to The Strokes should be in therapy. I mean, come on, no one is actually a Rockist. Sure, I've met guitar-hero meatheads who sneer at the very idea of synthesizer or sample-based music. They're not Rockists. They're idiots. There are persons who rebel against the current idea that guitar music and conventional songwriting are dead ends. Every now and then one of them proves hirself justified and puts out a decent record. Heck, every now and again I see a Dixieland jazz combo that makes that form seem relevant. But they're not Rockists either. They're just conservative, and they're probably boring and irrelevant. To me. And that's totally okay, and they shouldn't be perjoratively tagged with allegiance to some critically-manufactured ideology.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:42 / 10.04.07
Mmm. I did cringe when I saw the title of this thread. Apart from anything else, the term was really thrashed to death a good couple or more years ago, and even then I never liked it - as at the scarwash says, kind of a problem that nobody really identifies as a rockist (apart from crazy old ex-raver Simon Reynolds and his self-consciously contrarian Nu Rockism or whatever it was called). Not that a term to describe a tendency has to have people willing to identify as such, but it sort of muddies the waters given that people do happily describe themselves as popist, or (better IMHO) poptimist. Personally I've always favoured pro-pop. I'd say "pop positive" if I could do without smirking. I mean if you say "I'm pro-pop" and wait to see who has a problem with that, that seems to me to be a good way to fight these battles... except for the fact that, going back to my first point, it kinda feels like the big battles have been fought, schisms have taken place, new lines have been drawn.

I mean, to take an example, Lily Allen is clearly a pop artist, she's not really any other genre. There are ways of relating to her music that might once have been described as rockist and ways that might once have been described as popist, but these terms don't seem to delineate where the lines are drawn in terms of discussions about her. Am I making any sense here?
 
 
rizla mission
20:48 / 10.04.07
why "sodding" Buddy Holly? I mean, his recordings don't exactly fit the supposed preening, self-absorbed macho auteur Rockist paradigm. Rather, at least in my humble etc., they come across as tastefully minimalist pop jams.

Minimalist pop SONGS. "Jams" is rockist talk, man.

I'm listening to 'Workingman's Dead' as I type by the way.

I recall I was actually going to add "ROCKIST AND PROUD" to my username here at one point, but thought better of it on the basis that the term seems to have very different meaning to different people.

To my mind, the 'legitimate' use of the term in a negative sense refers to a specific attitude found among established, male music journos (particularly in Rolling Stone, Mojo, stuff like that..) that sees them them treating the established canon of 'classic' rock as the central form of popular music, with everything else serving as merely an amusing distration. The kind of attitude that sees aformentioned mags running in-depth features and interviews on the new White Stripes album, cementing Jack White's status as a great and important artist when for better or worse he's essentially just throwing together a bunch of ancient blues licks, 70s rock pomp and the odd pithy lyric..... and then giving a hip-hop album a 100 word review which says "well it's ok I guess, but they're basically doing the same thing they were doing 10 years ago and it ain't blowing my mind, so what's the point, huh? Next!"

So - bah, those people are stinkin' ROCKists! Far enough, whatever.... but I do get annoyed when use of the term is extended to slur those of us who can't be bothered to express much interest in the latest blogster/poptimist trend stuff, prefering to investigate older, less cool stuff etc. It all seems rather tied in with the rather limiting "INNOVATION=GOOD, TRADITION=BAD" attitude to music that I've been trying to escape in the past few years, mixed wholesale with the Morley et al "New Pop" paradigm, which I've never cared much for either.

Plus, if you'll allow me my Spinal Tap moment, what's wrong with being ROCKing?!? I don't object to the concept as such, but find yourself a better word please, cos I've loved rock n' roll all my life, and if push comes to shove - sorry, it wins.

Although I'm very much into the soul/free expression/primal power aspects of music these days, so I think maybe I'd really prefer to be labelled JAZZIST or BLUESIST or something, who knows, who cares.... phew.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:49 / 10.04.07
I mean, don't get me wrong, I think there are some interesting discussions to be had here. But I think that pop in its broadest sense has actually got a lot more complicated in the past few years, and our language for talking about it has to adapt accordingly.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:52 / 10.04.07
Also just to take one example from the first post of the thread which Rizla's post illustrates - is Paul Morley a rockist? The man wrote lots of lyrical words about Kylie's 'Can't You Out Of My Head'! But then he also wrote some very long bad interviews with U2 and The Arcade Fire. These things are complicated (although in this specific case, possibly they are simple and something to do with the comparative size of the paycheque the Observer Music Monthly gives for a cover feature).
 
 
Lugue
21:30 / 10.04.07
But I think that pop in its broadest sense has actually got a lot more complicated in the past few years

Would you expand on that?
 
 
rizla mission
21:50 / 10.04.07
I mean, don't get me wrong, I think there are some interesting discussions to be had here. But I think that pop in its broadest sense has actually got a lot more complicated in the past few years, and our language for talking about it has to adapt accordingly.

What's changed exactly? Why are things more complicated? (Not being facetious - just interested.)

is Paul Morley a rockist? The man wrote lots of lyrical words about Kylie's 'Can't You Out Of My Head'! But then he also wrote some very long bad interviews with U2 and The Arcade Fire. These things are complicated (although in this specific case, possibly they are simple and something to do with the comparative size of the paycheque the Observer Music Monthly gives for a cover feature).

I think the fact that we're on post No.7 or something and we're already pondering the personal motivation and financial situation of some fairly boring guy who writes for a few newspapers and whose cultural significance maybe a couple of thousand people in the UK are vaguely familiar with probably tells us something about the wider siginificance of this whole rock/pop battle-line drawing...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
06:19 / 11.04.07
I don't really understand that remark, rizla - it seems weirdly anti-discussion, in the sense that sure, we might head down some blind alleys if we talk about music and also all the little offshoots and sideshows and parasitic parts of popular culture that are attached to it, but where's the harm in doing so or the fun in not? And surely you're not implying that it's not worth discussing something simply because not enough people pay attention to it?

Will come back to the other bit.
 
 
Organic Resident
09:46 / 11.04.07
I wouldn't cite Paul Morley as an expert on anything to be honest. Andy Wilson, in his recent book on Faust, Stretch out of time, describes him as a 'bovine populist' which, though apt, is way too polite.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:47 / 11.04.07
I'm not sure anyone said he was an expert.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:01 / 11.04.07
I mean, I don't think this thread is about Paul Morley, but I'd be interested in hearing more about what the term "bovine populist" is intended to mean.
 
 
Spaniel
10:22 / 11.04.07
Something fucking stupid I'd imagine.
 
 
Saveloy
13:32 / 11.04.07
Sorry to carry on up the tangent, but didn't Morley set up ZTT, the label that gave us Frankie Goes to Hollywood? That's pretty darn pop. Yes, here we go:

In 1983 he formed ZTT with Trevor Horn. Morley was a founder member of the Art Of Noise and was instrumental in the success of Frankie Goes To Hollywood. He dreamt up the 'Frankie Say...' t-shirts, as worn over the years by everyone from Jennifer Aniston to Homer Simpson.
 
 
Spaniel
17:28 / 11.04.07
Well done, Mr Morley, I say.
 
 
Organic Resident
17:34 / 11.04.07
Sorry I misunderstood the thread, I thought it was a serious one about music, hence my surprise at anyone mentioning morley in any positive way at all. If you're not sure what 'bovine populist' means, use your imagination. I have to say, I always thought of Frankie goes to hollywood as a joke group like the wurzels.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:37 / 11.04.07
Is that - is that sarcasm, skippy? Y'know, I almost felt like chiding Boboss for assuming that use of the term "bovine populist" reflected badly on the user - how foolish would I look now if I had?
 
 
Spaniel
17:42 / 11.04.07
Well tbh I would've been pretty surprised if bovine populist was supposed to be anything other than insulting.

Perhaps I need to get my imagination down the gym!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:52 / 11.04.07
I have to say though, I'd like to learn more about this apparent rhetorical technique of sarcastically apologising and blaming oneself in such a way as to ridicule someone for holding different opinions to you. I've never heard of it before, especially on the internet! Can I have a go? Oh, my mistake, I thought a serious discussion of music was one in which if you thought a music critic or musician was erroneous or untalented you explained why rather than treating it as self-evident! Silly me, I thought it was possible in a serious discussion to feel ambivalent towards a figure or subject without being automatically mocked - obviously I was wrong!

Ooh, this is fun, let me try it again... I'm sorry - sorry you're such a douchebag.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
08:03 / 12.04.07
I'd also like you hear your opinons on why pop in its broadest sense has actually got a lot more complicated in the past few years, Flyboy -because I largely agree, but I don't know if the changes I (think I) have seen are just the result of my changing from a miserable, afflicted teenager to a slightly less miserable, slightly less afflicted adult. In the sense that I used to think that nothing I listened to was pop music (because I didn't like pop music), and now I think that the vast majority of what I listen to is pop music.

I think there's a point to be made here about the media literacy (for want of a better term) or otherwise of people who produce pop music in relation to this; for example, Lily Allen's communications with her audience are (or feel) a lot less mediated than those of the Spice Girls were with theirs. On the flipside of that, there appears to be a much higher degree of media literacy from mainstream guitar bands. I remember reading something in Select magazine about 10 years ago on how difficult it was to get some SoCal punk bands to say anything much in interviews other than "Uh... I done a turd in a phone box once... that was cool" - and the way in which the equivalents of those bands communicate appears to me to be very different, in the sense that it's a lot more engaged with its audience than it was a decade ago.

I'm not sure, having written that, if things that are not music are important in this debate. But I think that the way a (potential) fanbase is communicated with has been and continues to be important in pop music, and that that particular field has been flattened to some extent of late.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:42 / 12.04.07
I think media literacy is a very good term for it, Vincennes. It's a very specific sort of media literacy, I guess, and it's not entirely disconnected from some (but not all) of the values that Allecto is talking about when he says 'rockism'. I actually think the way Lily Allen communicates (and is communicated about) is much more mediated and affected than, say, the Spice Girls, but it's also considerable more sophisticated. Allen knows how highly the concept of authenticity is currently valued and so makes a point of claiming in interviews that her popularity is in some ways more democratic, less contrived by record companies, more 'real' than other pop stars. This gives her a sort of credibility that makes her somehow palatable to people who would never have given the Spice Girls the time of day (and yes, the music is different, too, but I think in some ways less importantly so). What fascinates me is that the idea that Allen's success is a result of the democratic application of MySpace is one of those, to invoke a favourite phrase, big lies that become believed through frequent enough retelling. The idea that the privileged daughter of a well-known actor might not be the best authority on telling the real story of real 'LDN' like it really is becomes scandalous, something that one should just not say... It's very odd.

A really interesting comparison here is the Arctic Monkeys, who I've read saying in interviews that they really hate the whole myth that they're a "MySpace band" - and yet this doesn't stop it being repeated constantly by the media. What this indicates, I think, is that you can't necessarily blame the artist for the pernicious myths that are generated about them - although I think in Allen's case I could dig up some verbatim quotations that show that we can.

But where things really get complicated these days is, I think, if you consider an example like The Gossip. The Gossip served their time as a post-riot grrl punk rock group, very highly thought of in smallish circles, not that well-known outside the USA - and then suddenly they became a pop band in the UK, and Beth Ditto has been on the cover of Heat. (Except it wasn't sudden at all, and involved a strange alignment of Soulwax remixes, the TV show Skins and Jonathan Ross.) Now, this in itself is interesting. But what is really relevant to my original objection to Allecto's use of the term 'rockist' is that given their history, their 'credentials', The Gossip ought to be a band supported by people with 'rockist' values. And The Kooks, a pretty, celebrity-dating boy band from stage school who are highly commercially successful (and crucially also deliberately commerical in their sound given what is currently popular) might, one imagine, be championned by people with 'popist' values. But that's not the way it works. Okay, there might be some people who prefer The Gossip to The Kooks because they think they're more 'real'. There might be others who like the mainstream appeal of The Kooks and don't like The Gossip. But my own experience is that the majority of the people who were fighting on the 'pro-pop' side a few years ago are far more likely to like The Gossip. And while strawmen are dangerous, I don't think it's too far off the mark to conceive of NME readers who are more receptive to The Kooks. Because it turns out that what people were actually disagreeing about was a package of other more specific issues - like, say, gender. It feels to me that those issues have sort of fragmented, or reorganised themselves, so now they come in slightly different packages.

Stop me, oh-ho-ho, stop me if none of this rings true at all whatsoever...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:23 / 12.04.07
(raises hand tentatively)

I, erm, I like The Wurzels.
 
 
Spaniel
09:26 / 12.04.07
No, no very interesting keep going
 
 
illmatic
09:38 / 12.04.07
I'm finding it interesting also (and realising how woefully out of touch I am, you should really be doing my job).
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:11 / 12.04.07
Yeah Fly, more...more...

Just a note on "sodding" Buddy Holly - I actually have no problem with Buddy Holly, my "sodding" was meant to indicate exasperation that people were putting him alongside "Sabbath", i.e. a completely different thing with completely different values, in order to create a genre ("Rock music") in order to say that that genre was better...
 
 
Jack Vincennes
10:49 / 12.04.07
Flyboy: The Kooks, a pretty, celebrity-dating boy band from stage school who are highly commercially successful (and crucially also deliberately commerical in their sound given what is currently popular) might, one imagine, be championed [over The Gossip] by people with 'popist' values.

I think there's something here to be explored in the idea of 'authenticity' - as mentioned above, it's something that has been highly valued for some time, it seems, by various music publications and consumers. And I think it's something that's affected the respective receptions of The Gossip and The Kooks (as per the above) as well, although it functions in a slightly different way; the fact that The Kooks are so consciously commercial means that whilst they are popular, the music they make could not be described accurately as 'new', whereas there has been a general dearth of post riot grrl punk rock bands in the UK charts up until now.

I don't know whether this association of pop with 'newness' just boils down to rizla's INNOVATION=GOOD, TRADITION=BAD formulation, but I think it's part of the reason why Lily Allen's MySpace argument works as an argument for her own 'authenticity' as a pop artist -it positions her music as something that is liked by people who like new things, and reinforces her as pop as well as 'democractically' popular.

I'm somewhat concerned about having talked about authenticity here, because I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about what is 'authentic', or what is 'real', or what is 'selling out'; but since the discussion is of attitudes to music in general, it might be worthwhile discussing how the concept of authenticity functions in terms of these attitudes.
 
 
Pepsi Max
12:15 / 12.04.07
So I agree the popist/rockist debate isn't really that interesting any more.

Living in Sydney's Rock Central (TM) and now feeling middle-aged (33), what I find more interesting is how talking about music is splintering along different fault lines & what those may be.

So I reckon Lilly Allen's manoeuvre is comparable to The Beatles (nice, middle class Liverpudlians who did their best to sound like dockers) & The Stones (LSE-educated wannabe bluesmen). It's just that the vehicle of authenticity has changed. "Rock" is all about aligning yourself to the rough stuff, the authentic, ver pee-pul (unless you were in Yes). Whereas self-conscious pop artists (and Morley's ZTT artists are a case in point) tend towards the role of the Diva, the Adored, whatever.

Most artists want to have their cake & eat it. They walk a fine line between the populist & the aspiration - hence the endless myth of the local boy/girl made good. You must be special but not that special.

What I think has happened in the last 7 years is that any pretence of "indie" music as being an alternative to the mainstream has disappeared. I remember being so glad when Suede & Nirvana got on TOTP in the early 90s - because that kind of music getting recognition was unusual. Whereas now, scruffy white boys with guitars are the norm.

I think the debate over Klaxons is quite instructive. They are basically an indie band who have tried move ever so slightly outside that arena - and that has generated a huge amount of attention for them.

I think the dynamic for the next 2-3 years will be less about rock vs. pop (because that boundary is neither contested nor interesting) or even black/white, male/female but rather those that wish to unite different strands of music (in a way different to the "anything goes" apathy of eclecticism) vs. those who wish to pursue their own strands into gentle oblivion.

I'm not making much sense anymore and I really must finish that bottle of champagne...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:23 / 12.04.07
You're making sense to me, at least about the past and present! I honestly have no idea about the next couple of years...
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
12:55 / 12.04.07
I have a rough idea about what the next two years will be called, if that helps.

I don't know if the INNOVATION=GOOD, TRADITION=BAD formula is true of all pop music: Christina Aguilera's album 'Back to Basics' self-conciously uses the sounds of forties swing and jazz at all levels- from the sounds of the music itself to the album art to the absolutely bloody spectacular videos. She could have made a bleepy 21st-century sounding album with The Neptunes or Timbaland on production duties, but she went with a sound that was old when her grandparents were her age. And it was a hit. Same goes for The Pipettes (Watch thier video, then scroll down to marvel at the cultural illiteracy of the average Youtube commentor)- modern pop music, not as commercially sucessful as Christina but with more 'indie cred' (they're on an independent label and have been on the cover of the NME, in other words), based on a sound that disappeared before Becky, Gwen and Rose were attractive twinkles in their parents' eyes.
I think the fact that great contemporary pop can be made from pretty much any 'osbelete' form of music points to something deeper in this whole 'rockism' debate. For the Rockist, if they do in fact exist, there's a a narrative to good music (blues became rock'n'roll became punk became indie rock became Aracde Fire or something). If you're in the narrative then you're real or authentic. Since that narrative is the only story that counts to the Rockists anything outside is not worth bothering with, an aberration. 'Pop', whether it is purveyed by Christina, the Pipettes or Klaxons (who are several stages of digestion beyond shit, but as Pepsi Max mentions above are instructive here) doesn't have, or need, a narrative. Pop artists can pick up seemingly contradictory elements (hip-hop production used to make swing, indie-rock used to make sixties girl-pop) from all over music's (chronological) history and it doesn't matter one jot. 'Innovation' and 'Tradition' aren't applicable terms any more, there's no backwards and forewards in modern Pop. Seen this way 'rockist' vs. 'popist' is a much older story: Modernist vs. Postmodernist.

Buuut, and here's a question for y'all: Is rock, or 'rockism' necessarily Modernist?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:11 / 12.04.07
Yeah, the innovation > tradition thing is neither a good idea nor a guarantee of success - I actually think that certain schools of Modernist thought are very useful for understanding certain ideas of the rock or popular music 'canon' that have developed in the last 50 years. TS Eliot thought that each time a new work emerged that was worthy of being included in the canon, it would necessarily be in and of itself shockingly new and different. And yet it would fit seamlessly within the canon, only momentarily disrupting it if at all.

This is pretty clearly an idea that has the potential to be hugely circular and self-justifying. It seems to be that it's pretty clearly how canons are formed, but the big question is whether they should be. Endlessly questing after innovation above all things can lead one to ignore good tunes and instead to favour banging on some pots and pans while muttering into a tape recorder that's been dropped into a blender. Having said that, if the idea was really applied that would be preferable to what we seem to get most of the time in music criticism, in which the process can be seen in retrospect yet it is assumed that the bands who deserve to fit into the canon are the ones who sound like the ones who at the time were breaking the mould.

The process seems to rely, frustratingly, on critics never learning from the past or spotting patterns - instead, there's a continuous calcification whereby bands/artists get retrospectively robbed of the attributes they had that don't fit in with their place in the canon. There's no better example of this than the mid 90s hip hop that was reviled as negative and violent at the time by fans of 80s hip hop, and is lauded as thoughtful and progressive now by those who revile 21st century hip hop...
 
 
Pepsi Max
06:23 / 13.04.07
So there's a few things here:
- Commentators
- Musicians
- Audiences

A professional commentator needs readers who are themselves the audience for specific musicians. So commentators align themselves with particular musicians & audiences. These might be conservative audiences (e.g. Mojo) or avant garde audiences (The Wire) or whatever. Certain highly influential commentators (or groups of commentators) may even help to create audiences for specific musicians. Or they may latch onto pre-existing scenes for their own purposes.

Rockism vs Poptimism was less about the musicians and more about a battle for audiences. Western societies are aging societies - those who formed their musical tastes in the "golden age" of rock (60s/70s) are in the ascendant demographically & financially. The poptimists were in effect fighting a generational battle for a younger audience who form a smaller consumer demographic than their boomer parents did. I believe they are fighting a losing battle.

The cultural powerhouses of 21st Century will be India & China. Since 2000, there has been a gradual infiltration of "Eastern" sounds into Western pop music. This has happened before in last 50 years (c.f. the obsessions with South Asia in the late 60s & East Asia in the early 80s) but this time it feels different. It feels less like conscious homage & more like something seeping thru...
 
 
penitentvandal
09:05 / 13.04.07
A really interesting comparison here is the Arctic Monkeys, who I've read saying in interviews that they really hate the whole myth that they're a "MySpace band" - and yet this doesn't stop it being repeated constantly by the media. - Flyboy (italics mine).

This, I think, relates to something Doug Rushkoff said, about how the media love stories about media. So you have to factor into all these discussions about Lily Allen and the Arctic Monkeys' 'MySpace popularity' the fact that the media like the story at least partly because it's about shiny new media things.

There's also the possibility that this MySpace myth might be deliberately fostered by MySpace itself for publicity purposes - getting more people to join the site in hopes of becoming the next Lily Allen (like we need another one). I don't know what MySpace's business model is or indeed if they have one, but presumably anything that gets more people onto their site is a good thing as far as they are concerned.

Veering slightly more OT - I remember getting very annoyed when the Idler, of all things, began touting Lily Allen's fame as some kind of victory for the people. I may even have dashed off an angry email to them to the effect that, yes, I get that she's their mate's daughter, but for fuck's sake, that doesn't excuse bending bloody reality.
 
 
Pepsi Max
10:16 / 13.04.07
"Buuut, and here's a question for y'all: Is rock, or 'rockism' necessarily Modernist?"

Modernism was concerned with doing something new. To position yourself as a modern in the early 20th century was to set yourself against the past (the ancients) and crave the new & the revolutionary. Rockism as portrayed by its enemies is explicitly anti-modernist.

What differentiates Modernism & Postmodernism is less an attitude towards authenticity than attitude to towards the past. Postmodernism sees no need to break with the past - rather it's open as fair (language) games.

If anything the rock music of The Strokes or Franz Ferdinand is Postmodern. Whereas their 70s precursors (Gang Of Four / Talking Heads) were attempting a funk/disco-fuelled Modernist break with rock history.

I would propose that Rock lost its Modernist impulses in the early 80s - e.g. The Smiths were totally postmodern - in their nostalgia for a past that never existed if nothing else.
 
 
Pepsi Max
10:29 / 13.04.07
In fact Rock in the late 80s & early 90s dramatised Karl Marx's "history repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce":

- Poison/Bon Jovi/G&R et al were Aerosmith / Kiss / New York Dolls reheated for Mid-Western MTV viewers.
- Nirvana saw themselves as punks. 1991 being the Year Punk Broke (only took 15 years, nice one...)

Which makes Wolfmother nth generation copies of rock originals. I suppose sticking your head in a xerox machine might explain that afro.
 
 
Pepsi Max
10:45 / 13.04.07
Sorry that quote should read: "history repeats itself, the first time as farce, the second as 70s ITV sit coms":
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply