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300 (spoilers for the comic and film likely contained within)

 
  

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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
04:44 / 10.03.07
I just got home from the theater and I must say that while this was an excellent translation of the comic book I was not completely blown away by the film.

The story is the same. Persia is on the borders of Greece ready to invade and King Leonidas of Sparta refuses to surrender. When the Spartan army cannot go to war because the Oracles said so, Leonidas takes his 300 best men and goes to confront the whole of the Persian army.

The film is incredibly pretty, the digital effects are an advancement over what was done in Sin City (although in all fairness Sin City as a comic was much simpler graphically imho). The costuming was excellent for the most part and the actors all filled their roles quite well.

Some of the choices in the score were odd to me. Scenes containing sweeping LoTR style orchestral music would be back to back with Nu Metal fueled action scenes. For the most part the music fit the mood of each scene, but it didn't really work for me as a whole.

Some additions were made to the comic book in terms of story telling that at first seemed pointless. There is an entire parallel plot line regarding the politics of Sparta, with Leonidas' wife trying to convince the council to send the army into the fighting. The really odd part is that I don't think the Queen's name was ever actually spoken in any of these scenes. My assumption is the producers and writers of the film realized they couldn't make a movie that was 90 minutes of carnage, so slapped these scenes together. It felt kind of tacked on, although the pay off was pretty good.

I said earlier that the costuming was excellent, but there were some issues with the Persian army. The Immortals, who made up the elite almost ninja like soldiers in the comic were transformed into Orc like beasts in the film. The even had a giant in chains who was let loose to try and kill Leonidas. Throughout the film the Persian hordes were portrayed in interesting ways, like an executioner with huge blades instead of hands and a goat headed musician. I THINK that part of what they may have been going for was to show the Persians in a mythological context from the point of view of the Greeks (just as the Spartans became mythic heroes). I could see someone who witnessed the combat prowess of the Immortals describing them as vicious beasts with fangs and claws. The look of the Persians had a very On the Wonders of the East feel about them, so it worked fairly well for me.

All in all, this was not a great film, nor was it a documentary about the battle of Thermopylae, it was an entertaining telling of a piece of ancient history as mythology. It worked very well for what it it, and it is an easy purchase when it hits DVD.

As always, YMMV.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
15:19 / 10.03.07
Excellent. On my way to see this this afternoon with the Favourite Scientologist. Will post hopefully coherent review of it instead of just going: "And then they were like AAAAH! And suddenly, this totally ripped dude went--!"
 
 
Jared Louderback
04:09 / 11.03.07
The one big thing for me was the fact that during the battles you could actually SEE what was going on for once, unlike basically every other giant-battle movie in existence. It was nice to see that for once a movie with good old fasioned hack and slash carnage was not muddled by a hideous shaky cam or the extra extra zoom out tactics of LOTR.

I thought the movie was fantastic. Just great and over the top, and Eight foot tall, gold-clad Xerxese, Lionidus screaming just about every one of his lines, there not being ten minutes going by in the whole movie without Something, somewhere dying a painful death. I fully intend to see it again, with some chemical assistance.
 
 
sleazenation
07:24 / 11.03.07
There are rumours that 300 is not an entirely faithful retelling of the battle of thermopylae and that Leonidas not only survived the conflict, but went on to found a chocolate shop in what would later become Belgium...

 
 
Mark Parsons
07:58 / 11.03.07
It was very good, but not great, although the visuals were top notch. As good as it could have possibly been, IMO, as the GN was "just" pulp. It's all machismo with scant foothold for genuine human emotion. I'd give it an A- overall, with the visuals bumping it up from a B+.
 
 
Mark Parsons
08:01 / 11.03.07
Xerxes got a laugh out of the audience: he's fifteen feet tall, campy-swishy and speaks with this echoey Barry White voice. Unintentionally hilarious, but give the OTT hyper-mythic approach it didn't detract noticably.

As was the case in the book, the hunchback plot was not Miller's finest moment as a writer.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:30 / 11.03.07
I can't fucking wait. I loved the comic- to be honest, it was the perfect story for Miller to do, because it already has all his obsessions in it without him having to crowbar them in, and he did it well.

When's it out in the UK?
 
 
CameronStewart
18:06 / 11.03.07
Ehh...this movie didn't work for me. I think I enjoyed about 10 or 15 minutes of it, scattered throughout, and the rest was just a tedious blur. The story is very slim but for some reason the film clocks in at just shy of two hours, entirely too long for the material. The subplot added in the screenplay is superfluous and cliche, all the characters are ciphers. The battle scenes grow tiresome very quickly, with an endless repetition of stabbings shown in alternating fast/slow motion. Under another, better director, Leonidas' death would have wrung tears from my eyes, but as cool as that shot of the thousand arrows descending upon the armourless king is, it raised no emotion in me.

The production design is very nice and there's a handful of great shots, but it's a perfect example of all style, zero substance.

Sad, because I really wanted to love it.
 
 
Mark Parsons
20:25 / 11.03.07
And next up...WATCHMEN!

***sigh***
 
 
CameronStewart
21:04 / 11.03.07
Yeah...it doesn't bode well.
 
 
Lugue
21:35 / 11.03.07
Hmm. AfterEllon.com comments that the film is a bit on the, well, if not homophobic, gay-unfriendly side, seeing as how it, as the graphic novel, doesn't approach the homosexual practices among Spartans while retaining a quip by a Spartan about the Persians as "boy-lovers", and taking the rather regular looking (regular in this context meaning traditionally male) Xerxes and making him into the, as described above, "campy-swishy", and by the AE writers, somewhat more neutrally, stereotypically effeminate villain. Not having seen the movie (I don't think it's even out here yet), I was wondering if people got that negative vibe as well. It's somewhat off-putting.

And how did people feel about Persians-as-beasts as opposed to the heroic Europeans? Elijah, you talk of a mythological reconfiguration of Persians, but don't you - and others - read a bit more into that? How did it come off? Can it really be interpreted as incidental?
 
 
at the scarwash
21:49 / 11.03.07
Honestly, is 300 really worth any analysis whatsoever? It's overblown melodramatic crap with feeble acting. The limited palette that worked so well in print falls flat when translated to film. It's racist, homophobic, and only has a nodding acquaintance with history.

On the good side, it's basically a two-hour long beefcake heavy metal album cover. I hope that when it's released on DVD, there's a "no soundtrack" option so that I can play Slayer instead.
 
 
Lugue
22:28 / 11.03.07
I don't know. I like my pop entertainment to be, even if veering on The Stupid, not to deep too much into The Wrong, and as such was trying to assess whether the movie is worth it or is ruined by its issues. Since no-one mentioned any, I was hoping to at least bring them up.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
00:40 / 12.03.07
Just got back from watching this.

"FILTHY ASIAN PIERCED ANDROGYNOUS FOREIGN TYPES! YOU FACE THE NOBLE MIGHT OF WESTERN CHIPPENDALE WARRIORS!"

So yeah, I dunno. I got kinda bored about halfway through, especially by the "Meanwhile, back in Sparta..." bits; distracted by weird stuff like the fact that the Spartans seem to have invented black PVC underpants 1000 years before their time (and have been fighting in them for about three days without changing, which I think would lead to crippling itching, but maybe they are TRAINED! AS WARRIORS! to deal with gonad fungus); feeling bad for those elephants; noticing things like the Spartans are all monogamous war machines (except for that lecherous traitorous Liberal Spartan) and the e-e-eeevil Persians are nearly all androgynous and deformed and pervy; realizing that Lenonidas would have been just hunky-dory if he hadn't been a condescending cock to the hunchbacked dude; weird Scottish accents (shouldn't they have been at least kind of Italian?).

On the whole, it was ... okay. I got increasingly disturbed by the "fight the forces of Isl-- er, 'mysticism' and tyranny!" speeches and the diametric opposition between Good Free Men and Filthy Brown People. It was purty, but purty only gets you so far, especially when laden with clanking dialogue and jerky pacing.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
01:43 / 12.03.07
According to sources I have read (don't have a bibliography handy) while there was likely homosexual behavior among the Spartans there is evidence that they denied it. Also, when a young warrior would join the Spartan war machine they were partnered with an older veteran, and it was explicitly forbidden for them to have sexual relations. The fact that it was forbidden specifically suggests that it was allowed elsewhere. The 'boy lovers' comment in the film (and the comic) was directed at the Athenians, by the way.

I think much of the pro-war/anti Islam sentiment people read in the film is a direct result of the terrible 'back in Sparta' scenes. The fact that the Queen, in her speech to the congress council actually says "Freedom is not free" made me want to cry. It was wholly unnecessary.

I think the monsterfication of the really scary parts of the Persian army, again, worked for the film in context. I think a story told from the point of view of the Persians might describe the 300 Spartans as 10 foot tall mad men. My favorite bit of this was the elephants which seemed to be a hundred feet tall. If you had never seen an elephant and one came bearing down on you it would be fair to think that in the describing of the events the size would be exaggerated.

I think the biggest flaw of the film was the clumsy narration. Because of the political plot in Sparta the story is broken up enough that the viewer forgets who is supposed to be telling it. It felt more like the narration was tacked on, rather then being part of the story itself. In the comic it is established early that Dilios is the story teller of the group, where as in the film it is sort of suggested but just didn't work.
 
 
CameronStewart
02:14 / 12.03.07
>>>realizing that Lenonidas would have been just hunky-dory if he hadn't been a condescending cock to the hunchbacked dude; <<<

I didn't think he was being condescending, I thought that Leonidas had a good point. The secret of the Spartan's military strength was the phalanx - the entire squad fighting as a single, impenetrable unit, each soldier's shield covering the man to his left. Ephialtes the hunchback couldn't lift his shield, so he was, militarily speaking, useless for that strategy. Leonidas was brutally honest but still, as I saw it, fair.

The problem enters with every single fight scene in the film, where the soldiers are shown breaking rank and fighting individually, completely negating the point of the phalanx. Is consistency too much to ask?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
05:16 / 12.03.07
I agree Cam, the first battle was an excellent interpretation of the phalanx style of combat, after that it went to hell.
 
 
Make me Uncomfortable
05:52 / 12.03.07
I was confused by this film, more than any other emotion or thought.

It seems to be homophobic with the "boy-lovers" comment, but at the same time there are a few characters who definity share some knowing grins, and something about the way Xerses keeps asking people to kneel is a bit dirty, but in an ambiguous sort of way. And although it's contested history, Greece was pretty homo-friendly, and sparta was no exception. They were actually, if I recall correctly, one of the few places that really embraced lesbianism as well as male homosexuality (but I think it was only a consenting-adults kind of thing, which is where the boy-lovers comment might have come up).

The persians were a weird mix of misplaced orientalism and mythic over-the-top-ness. Xerses, their leader and arguably the most approachable and understandable persian character, was the whitest among them, and it seemed like the more "evil and badass" thier troops were, the closest to brown and black they became (the ninjas most of all).

I was quite intrigued by the way the oracle and her old-men protectors were presented. There was something very ancient and primal about the whole scene- inbred old men from a bygone age, a young woman drunk, high, and mad with divine seizure, strange uberconciousness brought forward and translated. I think one of the things people forget about the greek religion is just how close to old-school hunter-gatherer kind of stuff it really was. Primal urges, debauchery, madness, etc were all part and parcel to the gods and the incredible architecture around which it was set. Divinity was close and human and yet still terribly unknowable. But... in the film the prophesizing was ignored.

I was also confused by the message about free men. When Leonas turned down that crippled soldier and when the scene at the beginning showed the valley full of discared babies, there were far too many shades of Nazi Eugenics for my taste- same with Leonas' carless boasts to the other group of people who come to fight about bringing more soldiers than he. There are free men, but they only count if they are worthy of it, and if they arn't they deserve thier fate? So people are free, but bound by the constraints of thier birth circumstances? You are inferior simply because you were born in Athens not Sparta? I mean, a lot of his speeches about it seemed ripped straight out of Independance Day, but Persians are not Aliens, and the Greeks were not exactly an innocent party- they brough the war upon themselves.

And I'm not even going to start on how much I thought the violence and gore was a neccessary or unneccessary part of the movie's style. Given the above issues I have... it would be a confusing confusing discussion, and a discussion that would be hard to have without first sorting out the above questions.

Also, how do people think 300 compares to Sin City, Frank Miller's other GN-turned-hyperviolent-stylistic-movie?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:32 / 12.03.07
Spartan and broader Greek attitudes to same-sex sex is an interesting topic - I'd suggest those interested in it take a look at Greek Homosexuality by Kenneth Dover.

weird Scottish accents

Oddly enough, there is a tradition that Spartans have Scottish accents. I am unsure who started this, but translators of Aristophanes took to representing Megarians and Spartans, in particular, as Scottish, in order to reflect the parody of their Doric dialect. The chances of anyone involved in the making of 300 is pretty low, unless Lane-Fox managed to wangle himself on set again, but it's not as insane as it sounds.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
09:14 / 12.03.07
Leonidas was brutally honest but still, as I saw it, fair.

That's how I felt about it when I read the comic, but the movie version really struck me badly; I think because, as you mention, the Spartan phalanx doesn't really seem to be a key strategy in the movie at all, which makes Leonidas' reasons for rejecting the poor dude ring false.

I'm trying to keep the timeline straight: have we seen them fight yet at that point in the movie? From a just-the-film of view, if we've already seen that their fighting strategy is "go apeshit while somebody plays chunky guitar riffs over a synth-drum track," then Leonidas doesn't really have much of a point as far as rejecting the guy goes.

Again -- it didn't bother me nearly as much in the comic, but in the movie it really seemed like a goofy move: take the only person who knows how to defeat you, who is obviously not exactly the picture of mental stability, shatter his lifelong dreams of regaining his family's honour and tell him he has to be the water boy. You're just asking for your whole nation to be sold out in exchange for a keen wizard hat.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
09:22 / 12.03.07
it seemed like the more "evil and badass" thier troops were, the closest to brown and black they became (the ninjas most of all).

Weren't the Immortals revealed to be horribly scarred? There's a scene where one of the Spartans rips the mask off an Immortal and his face is all Zemo. I figured (a) they burn the masks to their face because they're hardcore like that, or (b) the Spartan just happened to pick the really ugly Immortal. I didn't get a sense of "blackness" or "whiteness" from them, just "horrible-scarredness."

OTOH all of the e-e-eeeevil Persians who have speaking roles are very dark-skinned or very Arabic in appearance. The emissary at the beginning is black, the gets-his-arm-chopped-off whip dude is black, the last-chance-to-surrender guy is very Arabic. They even manage to squeeze in a couple of wicked-looking Asian guys in some of the slavemaster scenes.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:40 / 12.03.07
Yeah, in the English versions of Lysistra that I've read the Spartans have Scottish accents - although is it still neccesary when the film is from the point of view of the Spartans anyway? Something tells me that to use a Greek, or some generally mediterranean accent, might have made the characters sound dangerously close to, say, Mexicans, or other not quite white people, which the filmmakers might not have been comfortable with - where as we all know that the Scottish are not only white but are unafraid to use FORCE to fight the hated English.

I think much of the pro-war/anti Islam sentiment people read in the film is a direct result of the terrible 'back in Sparta' scenes. The fact that the Queen, in her speech to the congress council actually says "Freedom is not free" made me want to cry. It was wholly unnecessary.

Yes.

I think the monsterfication of the really scary parts of the Persian army, again, worked for the film in context. I think a story told from the point of view of the Persians might describe the 300 Spartans as 10 foot tall mad men. My favorite bit of this was the elephants which seemed to be a hundred feet tall. If you had never seen an elephant and one came bearing down on you it would be fair to think that in the describing of the events the size would be exaggerated.

While all this is true (see also Vikings in furs being the basis for myths of werewolfery) the difference between making a film in which the Persians are presented as monsters and making a film in which the Greeks are presented monsters is that there's a bit of a tradition which the film plays into, as well as current affairs. Persia = Iran, yes? I can't help but think that was very convenient for the film-makers. One of the things in today's discourse that strikes me as a real problem is the way that Persian, Turkish and Andalusian cultures - for centuries the height of civilization - are either not represented at all or made into, well, something like this.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:01 / 12.03.07
where as we all know that the Scottish are not only white but are unafraid to use FORCE to fight the hated English.

It's a shame Mel Gibson isn't directing this, really. There could have been much talk of the rot setting in with Cyrus the Great...
 
 
sleazenation
12:53 / 12.03.07
Brian Blessed was made to play Leonidas.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:26 / 12.03.07
>>>That's how I felt about it when I read the comic, but the movie version really struck me badly; I think because, as you mention, the Spartan phalanx doesn't really seem to be a key strategy in the movie at all, which makes Leonidas' reasons for rejecting the poor dude ring false.<<<

I rather think that's the fault of sloppy writing and a director who wanted to show wicked-awesome!!! slow-motion leapy-stabby fights all the time, instead of being a deliberate character choice to make Leonidas a jerk.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:36 / 12.03.07
Can't argue there, Cameron. Having seen the new Dawn of the Dead, I think young Mr. Snyder has a certain zeal for turning intelligent characters into raging idiots for the sake of a kewl action sequence or two.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:17 / 13.03.07
Predictably, this is already at #156 on the IMDB top 250. I didnt' like the film, for a number of reasons. For one, I found the Spartans nasty, the sort of people I'd hate to hang around with in real life. However, the Persians seemed pretty awesome, Xerxes was weird, but in a jolly giant sort of way, and their camp was just full of excess, perhaps a bit racially offensive, but certainly better than the lameness of Sparta. How many times did they say "Are you hungry, men? Then let us dine on blood!" I was hoping they'd lose, and the movie would follow Xerxes on his path to becoming that deity guy from Vinanarama.

Besides these narrative issues, the construction of the film was very troubling. I hate how this and Sin City seem to think making a good adaptation of the comic is just putting everything from the comic on screen as it was there. It's called an adaptation for a reason, you don't need a narrator telling you exactly what you're seeing, it works on the page, where there's no motion, but a well placed music cue can do what the narrator was here. And there was way too much dialogue, just shut up and let the visuals do their work, we don't need cheesy line after cheesy line from these people.

It's frustrating that no one can find a middle ground between lifeless exact translation of the comic to screen, like this, and pillaging of the source material along the lines of From Hell. Take the narrative and comic visual style as a guide, then add in dynamic music and shots to make it more film like. Comics that try to mimic movies wind up leaving you wonder why they didn't just make it a movie, this left me wondering what the purpose of the film was if all they're doing is trying to replicate the comic.
 
 
penitentvandal
10:38 / 13.03.07
Just imagine if he takes the same approach with Watchmen - god that's going to be one visually uninteresting film (no offence to Dave Gibbons, but I never get a great sense of movement from his panels).

'Freedom isn't free?' Jesus. Why not go the whole hog and score the film with 'Sparta - fuck yeah!'

Having not yet seen the film or read the book I had no idea how they were going to address the issue of Spartan homosexuality, and it seems they've done it by...ignoring it. Which is a shame, as I for one thought it would be good to watch two hours of gay chippendale warriors battling sleek Asian youths.

On something other than the internet.

As to the depiction of the Persians - yeah, there's a tradition of Orientalism, but turning them into bizarre, half-human goat-men? That's not just othering the oriental, that's pushing them so far out the other side of 'other' they wind up due fucking west of reality. I mean, how does this fit with the Arabic Persians elsewhere in the film? Seems to me it would be a bit of a weird join. One minute they're basically Iranian, the next - bang! Goat people! Giants! Orcs! Is there a point where Xerxes rips off his face and cackles 'That is right, Leonidas! I am not Xerxes at all! I am - SKELETOR!'

Do they actually have goat-men in Iran? Given that we are apparently about to have yet another of those wildly popular Islamic/Western wars there, I think we should find out, quick. Goat-men are clearly something we shouldn't take on lightly. I mean, I fear for the POWs left in the care of the goat-man warders. It's too terrible to contemplate.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:22 / 14.03.07
Iran and its citizens are furious about the movie (they feel their ancestors are being maligned/misrepresented). Many of them also feel the timing of the release of the movie (as Iran continues to clash with the US over its nuclear materials) is purposeful, blatant anti-Iranian agression from the US. (I read that and thought, "Um, someone should tell them this version of the 300 story was done by Frank Miller some years ago and has been planned by Hollywood for several years; I think the timing has nothing to do with tensions with Iran, nor is Iran named anywhere in the film.)

see what all the hubub is about here. .
 
 
FinderWolf
13:34 / 14.03.07
and yes, I am aware of Persia being Iran before it was called Iran, before anyone jumps down my throat. It seems more offensive that it's 'whites versus brown men' as others have pointed out in this thread, as opposed to 'versus Iranians.' Even when I read the comic itself way back when, I was troubled by the dark/light skin conflict and presenting the darker people as savage eeeevil barbarians.

unrelated to the racism angle, Alan Moore's comment about 300 (the comic) always made me chuckle (and I paraphrase here): 'Frank Miller can do one thing really well: hard-boiled tough guys. Even when he does Spartans, they talk like Raymond Chandler hard-boiled Spartans.'
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
03:46 / 15.03.07
Anybody else love the ejaculating spears?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
10:48 / 15.03.07
AW DUDE I LOVE THEM! Why, are there any in the movie?
 
 
wicker woman
05:15 / 16.03.07
Haven't seen the film yet, but do these racist elements really even NEED to be brought up as a concern? I mean, c'mon. In pretty much any country this movie shows, is anyone who isn't already a complete blithering idiot going to go "OMG, I didn't know oriental people were half-goat-whatevers! Now I hate them even more!" I didn't watch The Patriot and start thinking that all British people were Snidely Whiplash evil.

The concerns of Iran's people, such as they are, seem to be fueled both by a state media campaign against the film (which is obvious bullshit) and a concern about potential US aggression (which is certainly appropriate, though only from the armed forces and their masters.) I don't think the good majority of the US populace is actually going to get worked up into a good slathering fervor to start a ruckus with yet another middle eastern country any time soon.

It's not as though I'm trying to de-value the need to have appropriate representations of various peoples in the media, but in a special effects monster like 300 that's destined for no more remembrance 50 years from now as anything other than that 'cool-looking-but-basically- dumb movie you've got sitting on the shelf'? Really, who cares?
 
 
Mug Chum
04:09 / 20.03.07
I had a huge-ass post about the film and the comic, but I think I'll just put this in:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7002481

(Frank Miller on "The State of the Union". It's streaming, so if you wish to hear just click on the 30:40 mark. It just puts some context on the guy's work, in my view -- and some context on the movie)

Quite frankly, I can't understand why some people are pissing on the film saying the comic was better.
 
 
Hieronymus
05:54 / 20.03.07
So it seems the conservative Right have embraced this movie as their new 'America! Fuck Yeah!' must-see, distilling everything from an endorsement of Bush's policies to a polemic against the 'sissification of America'.

With hilarious results
 
  

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