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What to do about fight-prone friends

 
  

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Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:47 / 05.03.07
I think there is also a somewhat different perception of fighting happening here. In my close community all efforts are made to avoid physical confrontation because it isn't viewed as a sport. It's the last resort of desperation because your life is at stake. Not pride, not social standing, and not over the contents of your wallet.

That's an attitude I've always envied. I certainly don't regard fighting as a sport, because I am short, fat, perpetually unfit and physically very clumsy. I don't feel attracted to the abstract idea of a fight. I know, on an intellectual level and even on some emotional levels, that it's the right approach. However, I can think of a number of occasions where I've allowed myself to become ridiculously wound up by another person, and it's taken all my willpower just to take a deep breath and walk away. I don't think it's enough just to walk away from a situation like that, I think it's important to walk away calmly and in the full knowledge that this is the right thing to do. But although on every single occsion I've been wound up like that I've managed to either smooth things over or remove myself, there's been times when I've been dragging that bloody two-year-old by its sticky hand every step of the way. I'm not talking about occasions where there's been an outright threat of violence (I get away from those without any hesitation), I'm talking about occassions where there's been verbal abuse, inappropriate touching, etc.

A particular night always sticks in my mind. I was down the pub with Lurid, and he'd gone to the loo leaving me on my own. Two wankers with a laser pointer started screwing around, shining it on my tits and shaved head, and in my eyes. I experienced this rush of purile anger--"toddleresque" describes it perfectly--this ridiculous desire to storm over, grab the laser and stamp on it. When Lurid came back I got a grip and asked to leave the pub. I vented my spleen on a couple of shopping trolleys and a bottlebank on the way home.

Not long after that a young man was beaten to death outside the pub up the road after remonstrating with some guys shining a laser pointer on his female friends' tits. Same guys? I'll never know. But if I'd gone over and yelled at them, it could easily have been me or Lurid getting pounded to death with a chunk of wood. And over what, a little dot of red light?

Conversly if I saw someone getting mugged on my street I'd probably piss myself and run away. Fuck off, Inner Toddler.
 
 
Mirror
22:34 / 05.03.07
With respect to carrying a knife...

I've carried a pocketknife (along with a miniature multi-tool on my keyring) basically every day of my adult life since I left high school (where they were prohibited) simply because a knife is one of the simplest and most versatile tools around. It serves as a utensil, a cutting and prying tool, a letter opener, an eyeglass screwdriver, as my toothpick, nail clippers and file, as a magnet for tiny screws (I magnetized the blade), electrical conductor, probe for arranging tiny bits of solder... the list goes on.

My point relevant to the topic at hand is that when you carry a knife as a tool, you also have to recognize that you are not unarmed, and that in an extreme situation you may need to deploy the knife as a weapon. I don't carry it for that purpose, but I'm not going to stop carrying a knife just because it has the potential to be used as a weapon. Now, if you have violent tendencies or think yourself likely to get into a fight at some point, this is a serious consideration; at least in my life the potential for encountering violence is so minimal that it's basically a non-issue. Encountering a situation where a knife is a useful tool, however, is a daily if not hourly occurrance.
 
 
Slim
00:19 / 06.03.07
I think there is also a somewhat different perception of fighting happening here. In my close community all efforts are made to avoid physical confrontation because it isn't viewed as a sport. It's the last resort of desperation because your life is at stake. Not pride, not social standing, and not over the contents of your wallet.

No offense XK, but welcome to the vast majority of society.

Tuna, I rarely advocate ditching a friend becaue friends are supposed to stick things out. I also hesitate to recommend anything because it's clear that you haven't come to a conclusion on the details of the situation and certainly haven't provided us with many.

However...engaging in easily-avoided fights becomes less acceptable with age. If the guy isn't mature enough to understand that beating the shit out of someone regardless of whether or not they deserve it is not acceptable, then it's quite possible he's dumb as a box of rocks. Worse yet, someone like that can put you in a bad position. What if he starts a fight with a group of guys and you feel obliged to help out because you're buddies? It probably won't happen but this guy may end up putting you in a dangerous or illegal situation. I suggest that you ask him why he feels like breaking faces so much and regardless of his answer, tell him he's lame for doing it.
 
 
Ticker
00:42 / 06.03.07
No offense XK, but welcome to the vast majority of society.

I dunno Slim I think in the majority of places on the planet fighting can and does lead to death. Sure people do it and lots of them die. IMO it's only in first world countries that people believe they are somehow protected with an inherent right to throw a punch. I know of plenty of places in this country where a fight usually is fatal or close to it. Outside of a sport context to view confrontation as anything else but life or death is woefully uninformed.

Not long after that a young man was beaten to death outside the pub up the road after remonstrating with some guys shining a laser pointer on his female friends' tits.

Now the majority of society might not think this fight could have escalated to this point or only in foreign countries but in my small seaside town a college student was beaten to death outside the parking garage by another person in a drunken rage for no clear reason. Every few months someone is hospitalized or dies from pointless violence in this low crime area. The perception of fighting as somehow 'safe' is IMO a big fat illusion and a game of russian roulette.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:40 / 06.03.07
Not long after that a young man was beaten to death outside the pub up the road after remonstrating with some guys shining a laser pointer on his female friends' tits.

This kind of shit just makes me feel like never leaving the house. It's so depressing.
 
 
Quantum
08:46 / 06.03.07
But most people, most of the time are pussycats. People sometimes get beaten up for no reason except drink (usually at closing time) but with a decent awareness and a bit of luck you can go your whole life without proper fighting.
What makes it dangerous is fuckheads who get drunk and then either look for a fight, or happily engage in situations where their anger will take over, then pummel the crap out of some passer by. It's people like Tuna's friend who cause the fights, then people get maimed or die by accident because someone was drunk and had anger management issues.
Anyway, even if someone doesn't die, getting beaten is not just a little thing you get over like flu. It has profound psychological and physical aftereffects, most especially if you're a peace loving hippy. I absolutely can't endorse people causing or willingly getting into fights because it's completely unacceptable- I haven't been in a fight since I was 17, and not for lack of opportunity but because (just as XK says) it's better not to fight.

If a friend phoned me to tell me about their fight I'd give them heavy shit about it and demand an explanation, because mostly my friends would call me up about being beaten up by some drunken wanker for no good reason. Maybe we're just nature's victims, or maybe (and this is the explanation I favour) we're clever enough to realise that fighting is fucking pointless and a hallmark of unresolved self-esteem issues.
I should add many of my friends are martial artists, and I carry a knife*.



*it's a one-and-a-half inch swiss army knife with some mini-scissors.
 
 
Ex
08:56 / 06.03.07
Swiss army knives - when you need to know that anyone who messes with you will be totally trimmed, partially plucked and have no stones left in their mofo hooves.
 
 
Quantum
09:52 / 06.03.07
Just ask Liechtenstein, those sorry-ass suckers will tell you to fear the blade.

 
 
Evil Scientist
11:11 / 06.03.07
I occasionally carry a Swiss Army knife (on the rare occasions when it hasn't been absorbed into the null-space where lost items in my house end up). It's a handy tool, but certainly not one I would consider using to defend myself with.

My reasoning for this is simply that I am not a trained knife fighter. Hell, I'm not a trained fighter of any kind. Using a weapon without any training can very often lead to a body injuring themselves rather than whoever it is they're fighting.

I have to say that, in general, I'm lucky enough to have not been involved in many fights in my life (the fact that I'm a hulking shaven-headed type may be a factor in that). The fights I have been in were, thankfully, not ones where weapons were used. But I honestly couldn't see that my producing/use of a weapon would have resolved issues any quicker or in a more satisfactory manner.

Tuna, I sympathise with your current position. At college I did have a friend who, without going into too much detail, had a bit of a rough past. He habitually carried knives and (on one memorable and extremely unpleasant occasion) a loaded revolver. He was someone who'd solved a lot of problems in his past with violence and was of the opinion that, if someone started a fight with him, then his preferred way of resolving it was to make sure that they wouldn't be able to get back up after he'd knocked them down.

He and I had quite a few drunken discussions on the subject of appropriate use of force (I was passing through one of my last Christian phases and was, at the time, a pacifist). With the exception of him, our entire group of friends were people who would rather not get involved in fights, and were generally critical of anyone who started fights.

I'd like to say that we totally changed his point-of-view. But I don't think we ever did completely. For as long as I knew him he'd carry at least one knife, and was still prone to settling problems with violence. But I think that having friends who didn't like that way of doing things and told him so in no uncertain terms did inspire him to rein it in, at least a bit.

Tuna, if this guy is a friend then talking to him, and making it clear (in a friendly manner, being confrontational won't work IMO) that you're uncomfortable with what he's doing may help him to consider changing.

If he doesn't change (and I wouldn't expect miracles) then at least you tried to help a friend.
 
 
penitentvandal
12:58 / 06.03.07
XK, I think that's a very good point about how our culture glorifies violence - particularly real-life violence - as a valid way of resolving problems. And I also think it's very mature of you to take an attitude that leads you to hold back from violence despite, from the sound of it, being pretty effective at it.

But this is veering into offtopica so, with regard to violence-prone friends, I think my thing would be to dump them. Not if they got into one fight, no - but if they kept getting into them, I'd definitely ask them to try and modify their behaviour around me, and if they didn't, I'd dump 'em.

Best course? Zero tolerance. When your pal starts telling you about a fight he's been in, just tell him not to. Tell him you're not going to listen to him bragging about fighting again, and you're prepared to go home alone and curtail whatever activity you're both enjoying if he doesn't change the topic. Maybe this will get across to him the idea that his fighting is something you disapprove of. At the very least, he'll clock that you don't want to hear about it, and stop bragging to you.
 
 
Triplets
15:09 / 06.03.07
How do you sort out a fight prone friend?

FITE THEM!!!
 
  

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