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Underground > Comic Books >

The Great Invisibles Re-Read: Part Two

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18:50 / 05.03.07

One of the greatest weaknesses of The Matrix is, I think, the manner in which the filmmakers chose to neglect the incredibly high death toll Neo and his allies create.

I'd agree, the series falls apart in the third film because they revert to this very easy manicheanism, with 'real' as good and 'unreal' as bad and expendable. I think the greatest flaw of the final film was the idea that it was better to live in this nasty, run down real world rather than take over The Matrix and turn it into a shiny, supernatural playground where everyone can be a god and have total control over their reality.

The Wachowskis may have copied a lot of plot elements from that first Invisibles arc, but they completely missed the part where Tom talks about how there is no such thing as 'real,' our dreams and thoughts are just as real as the chair you're sitting in. So, according to him, it wouldn't matter so much that we break out of the Matrix, it would be more important for us to reclaim our agency within it, and show everyone how to transcend the limits in the way the Neo and his crew can. That's what the end of the first film indicated would happen, but it just never did.

And, going along with this, if people experience emotion as a result of their lives in the Matrix, then aren't they just as real as the people living in the caves in the 'real world'? And, consequently, the violence that Neo and his gang do will cause a lot of pain, something that is never addressed. I saw Reloaded as analagous to Volume II of The Invisibles, upping the violence and leading our heroes on a path to moral decay. But, the third film never addressed this and completely backed off from any moral complexity.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

20:09 / 05.03.07

Cypher is the only person in those three films that had his eyes open. And they killed him. The bastards!

09:53 / 06.03.07

Exactly!

After a disappointing start, this thread is throwing up some seriously good points. One of which is:

he does seem to have taken on a number of projects recently that for whatever reason he can't, apparently, really be arsed with.

That's true but this, I think, is a weakness Grant explains in a lettercol during volume two of the series: he actually wants to write ALL THE COMICS. I mean, we all know Grant loves the superheroes; if DC come along and say 'hey Grant, fancy writing Batman/rewiring our entire universe/writing some insane year-long weekly comic' what's he gonna say? 'Sorry, bit busy at the mo'? That's not his style. He leaps on the world from the top rope and shags it to within an inch of its life. Moore by contrast is a more subdued character whose recreations include having a big beard, having lots of hair and ambling around Northampton. Which perhaps means that in the long game Moore comes off better, but Morrison is more fun to watch while he's at work.

It's like the contrast between inhibitory and excitatory gnosis and magick. Morrison is the excitatory style, dancing or shagging at full-bore intensity all night until achieving some revelatory, shattering climax at the moment of burnout, then needing time to recover, while Moore is the guy who sits and walks and meditates and does nothing else, yet still somehow comes out knowing and being able to do everything.

All of which is good, but tells us nothing about why calgotron hates butlers. 'fess up, man, surely everyone loves a gentleman's gentleman?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:04 / 06.03.07

There's also the fact that Morrison needs the money whereas Moore doesn't.

00:10 / 13.03.07

I too would like to see more of Grant's creator owned work, but Seven Soldiers seemed as personal as anything he's done, and it was only a couple of years ago that he wrote We3, one of his most emotional pieces ever. So, it's not like he's completely 'sold out.'

And, anyone else think it's time to start the thread for Entropy in the UK? This thread's been silent for a while and perhaps a bit of the old Gideon Stargrave will get discussion going again.

04:40 / 13.03.07

If DC come along and say 'hey Grant, fancy writing Batman/rewiring our entire universe/writing some insane year-long weekly comic' what's he gonna say? 'Sorry, bit busy at the mo'? That's not his style

Well no, but I wonder if it shouldn't be. I don't know very much about Geoff Johns, but from what I understand of the man and his work, collaborating with him on anything much more than a shopping list would be fairly dispiriting.

Conversely, Mark Millar, once very much the sporan to Morrison's kilt, now has the entire Marvel Universe spread out in front of him, as it were, and he is the king of it, and can do what he damn well pleases.

I'm not saying Grant Morrison would want to be in that position, necessarily, but it must be a bit odd watching your former homunculus go crazy over at the opposition, if you aren't really able to respond, exactly.

15:32 / 13.03.07

I vote for moving onto the next trade. Getting into 'Entropy' will give us a lot more meat to chew on - not just the 'King Mob: cool bastard or just a bastard?' heated debate, but Mr Six and Division X, Quimper, the pacing of the final storyline, GM's illness and its reflection in the comic, the first real characterisation of Sir Miles, the nature of Dane's enlightenment, and, most crucially of all, of course, how much Jim Crow rocks.

Beyond reminding us all of how much we love Fanny, I think 'Apocalipstick' has been mined.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:00 / 15.03.07

41 entries, half of which are irrelevent, and you feel you've 'done' Apocalipstick?

21:13 / 15.03.07

Hey lets not criticize. And saying that half of the entries are irrelevant? Come on...This is a DISCUSSION. Everyone should be welcome to share whatever they feel about the comic, be it directly relating to the text in print, synchronicities that have occurred while reading, and stories about how the issues made you feel at the time.

I suppose this is almost a re-uttering of mission statement. And just because we are starting to move on to 'Entropy in the UK' does not mean that this thread has to die. The point of having separate threads is to have separate discussions.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:40 / 16.03.07

Sorry, I didn't mean 'irrelevant' in the sense of 'lacking in value', but I was in a hurry to post and leave the computer. I meant 'irrelevant' only in the sense of 'not directly connected to the issues at hand' and if you look for what I've posted in this thread you'll see I'm one of the guilty parties, but the conversation has mainly been about the artwork.

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