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Underground > Comic Books >

Proposal For a Group Re-Reading Of The Invisibles

  
  

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Char Aina
19:54 / 31.01.07
sounds cool.
it makes sense to be able to draw on the later issues to explain or understand teh earlier ones.
i don't think anyone reading for the first time will be anywhere near the thread, so i rec kon spoliers shouldnt really be an issue.

boboss!
get reading!
 
 
sn00p
20:32 / 31.01.07
i don't want to kill the street cred of this thread anymore than nesccary, but how are we going to do this?
Shall we just read it however we like, discuss the intresting ideas we get, new connections we notice and the overall relevance of THE INVISIBLES in 2007? Also in relation to this whole 90's revival that seems to be appearing in youth subculture's, music and fashion?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:43 / 31.01.07
i would do this. just gimme a schedule. and i'm of two minds regarding all at once vs. issue by issue... they both have advantages, so i'll go with the overall flow.
 
 
Mario
22:59 / 31.01.07
It seems to me that all at once requires an investment of time greater than most of us are capable. How about we split the difference, and go an arc at a time?
 
 
Corey Waits
01:30 / 01.02.07
I am, as the young people say, "totally down."

I've been meaning to re-read it along with The Disinfo Guide To The Invisibles for a while now, but this will give me the inspiration to keep at it.
 
 
Evil Scientist
06:45 / 01.02.07
I've been meaning to re-read it along with The Disinfo Guide To The Invisibles for a while now, but this will give me the inspiration to keep at it.

Sort of like having the commentary running on a dvd? Nice idea.

I'd probably be down with a re-read. Although, not wanting to be negative here, the series hasn't dated particularly well for me. Don't get me wrong I still love it to bits, but it does reek of the nineties (in the same way that Watchmen reeks of the eighties).

So shall we begin at the beginning? Dead Beatles over the weekend and a chat about it starting Sunday? (And on the seventh day The Invisibles rose again?).
 
 
sleazenation
07:26 / 01.02.07
Well, for a start, terrorists aren't considered quite so cool in the 'western' world these days...
 
 
illmatic
08:18 / 01.02.07
I've been meaning to re-read it along with The Disinfo Guide To The Invisibles for a while now, but this will give me the inspiration to keep at it.

Well, you'll need some sort of inspiration to read that Disinfo book. It's fucking godawful, with some of the most asine, smug, punchable commentary ever penned.

Sorry! Not adding much to the thread - it is a terrible book though.
 
 
penitentvandal
08:44 / 01.02.07
I particularly enjoyed the way one of the writers decided it was important to let us know, for each issue, how much of a wanker he thought King Mob was.

I'm down for a re-reading. I was thinking of doing it myself, actually, having just read Pinchbeck's 2012 and had that little maggykkky wyrdness node in my brain pinged again.

Mayhap this thread could also include reminiscences of where we were at, as people, when we first read the series? For me, reading the Invisibles is bound up with a lot of my memories of growing up, going from school to uni, learning magic*, starting out on the fumbling path of relationships, sexuality, and experimenting with drugs...Ah, good times.

It would also, perhaps, be a way of turning a corner on the 'Lith to a more appreciative take on the Invisibles - I think recently there's been a move, and quite a valid one, to dissociate a little from Barbelith's association with TEH INVIZIBLLZ!1!, kind of like an adolescent rejecting their parents; perhaps this could be like when you get a bit older and you start to reassess your folks and realise there are things you can thank them for.

Hold on, I'm just getting a message from our editors saying I might have been talking crap in that last paragraph. You decide.

*I should stress here that, while I learned magic while I was at university, I didn't learn magic at university, I did English. I didn't go to Hogwarts Polytechnic, or anything.
 
 
The Falcon
13:57 / 01.02.07
Well, you'll need some sort of inspiration to read that Disinfo book. It's fucking godawful, with some of the most asine, smug, punchable commentary ever penned.

Sorry! Not adding much to the thread - it is a terrible book though.

So true, though, and also the single worst Quitely pic ever on the cover. The interview's alright at the back, but there're definitely some eye-rolly bits therein, too.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:48 / 01.02.07
I seem to recall the problem was the half-arsed way they went about stealing the annotations from the old Bomb site and passing them off as their own. In fact the Bomb often went into much more depth than they bothered with. The interview was good though.

I finished rereading the thing a month or two back and don't have time to reread it again now, so I might just stand on the outside of this and shout "DO YOU SEE!! and TW3NTY-THR33!!1!" as required.
 
 
ginger
19:53 / 01.02.07
aaah, the disinfo guide. someone made a few sqift quid there. a triumph of two blokes in a pub over actual research.

i love the way they tell you who john lennon was and point out that 'lennon' sounds a bit like 'lenin', but then completely miss the obscure nods to situationist graffitti and so on that you'd think people'd be buying a guide in order to have pointed out. classic example: jim crow's scorpion tale thingy may be mentioned in 'the crying game', but it's also in the film version of 'the society of the spectacle', which you'd think is quite a significant wee reference, in the context of the invisibles.

since the disinfo guide's the biggest pile of bollocks i've had the pleasure to come into contact with since i umpired the mid-powys sheep-knackering championships in 2002, one advantage of a more gradual, issue-by-issue approach is the potential for such guidebooky obscure-reference-spotting and exegesis...
 
 
Tim Tempest
20:20 / 01.02.07
I'd agree there, but I think it would be best to structure the read on an issue by issue basis, so you could talk about stuff from the whole series, but use the issues as a guide for that progression. So, in talking about issue one, you could discuss the way the opening monologue ties into themes from the end of Volume III. That works for me.

That is pretty much the vision I had...err....envisioned. Issue by issue, so we can break it down, but at all times, the rest of the series can be discussed and tied into it.

Shall we just read it however we like, discuss the intresting ideas we get, new connections we notice and the overall relevance of THE INVISIBLES in 2007? Also in relation to this whole 90's revival that seems to be appearing in youth subculture's, music and fashion?

Yes. Lets definitely get into that.

Mayhap this thread could also include reminiscences of where we were at, as people, when we first read the series?

Velvet, thats an excellent point. I remember, the most confident I had ever felt in my life was right after I had finished the series [for the first time]. I was beginning grade 12, I was the tallest kid I knew, I was a starter on the basketball team, I was doing sigils all the damn time, and...Everything just made sense.

I want that feeling back.

I might just stand on the outside of this and shout "DO YOU SEE!! and TW3NTY-THR33!!1!" as required.

I really do think that sort of thing is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to fully experiencing the grandness of this project.

...the potential for such guidebooky obscure-reference-spotting and exegesis...

Lets dive headfirst into this then!

So shall we begin at the beginning? Dead Beatles over the weekend and a chat about it starting Sunday? (And on the seventh day The Invisibles rose again?).

I say yay to that. Who else is willing to begin on Sunday? And even if you can't find your trades or whatever the excuse to not start on Sunday may be...Here lies the answer:

Issue #1 Online

God bless you, Vertigo. Even though you got the cover wrong.
 
 
PatrickMM
22:13 / 01.02.07
Sunday sounds good, we could probably do a thread for each chunk of issues, so the discussions can keep going even when new stuff is read. Plus, those can serve as a good addition to the Bomb for people who are rereading the series.
 
 
The Falcon
22:38 / 01.02.07
I'm sure everybdy can manage much more, but a trade a week seems appealing to me. Seven trades, seven weeks, seven days in a week - I can feel t3h chaos majickx in flux alredy.

Seriously, though, how's that sound? I'd also advise that - given the excessive lunatic bravura within - readers might fancy capping their 49 day marathon with the complete Filth (imo - nowadays - a much better, wholer and more realistic comic) in a little room, wooded floors, only candles for light, to calm down.

I'm really into the autobio divulging we can all do here (hat's off to VV,) and this is, to my surprise, probably an idea whose time has come.
 
 
Planet B
23:34 / 01.02.07
Let me say, I'd be in for this.

Also, as someone who bought the Disinfo guide because I thought it was produced by those who produced the Bomb, I was thorougly disappointed in their weak-arsed annotations.
 
 
Planet B
23:39 / 01.02.07
... when I lived in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, I used to get out of the subway station and walk across a little triangle piece of concrete that had some plastic newsboxes on it. on one of the boxes was a handwritten sticker, "Become invisible". I had a chuckle every day after work as I'd walk by that. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to do so, however.
 
 
Rachel Evil McCall
02:10 / 02.02.07
Huh. I'd just started re-reading it the other day, for no particular reason.

What a coinkydink.
 
 
Sylvia
04:24 / 02.02.07
I'd love to. Are we going to do it split up by trades or by issues? I like the idea of doing one or two issues per session myself, because I wouldn't mind seeing everyone analyze the hell out of every small detail without worrying about going too far off track. But then again maybe that's not feasible with everyone's timeline.

Well, you'll need some sort of inspiration to read that Disinfo book. It's fucking godawful, with some of the most asine, smug, punchable commentary ever penned.

It's such a relief to hear someone else say it. While I loved the interviews with Grant and the artists, the Disinfo reviews of the issues were nearly all disappointing. I was expecting Jess Nevins-level annotations and got the equivalent of a C list comic review website instead. Feh.
 
 
Corey Waits
07:44 / 02.02.07
Hmmm, seems as though I should never have mentioned the book.

But yes, from what I've read the interviews have easily been the most interesting part of the book, and the annotations have been rather pedestrian on the whole.

And yes, terrible fucking art by Quietly.

Let us never speak of it again!

Have we come to a consensus? How many issues shall we read by Sunday?
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:16 / 02.02.07
I'd love to. Are we going to do it split up by trades or by issues? I like the idea of doing one or two issues per session myself, because I wouldn't mind seeing everyone analyze the hell out of every small detail without worrying about going too far off track.

Let's do issues one and two then. See how we do with that.
 
 
TimCallahan
09:45 / 02.02.07
Might I be so bold as to propose a reading/discussion schedule that looks like this?

Issues #1-2 for Sunday
Issues #3-4 for Wednesday
Issues #5-6 for Friday
Issues #7-8 for Sunday (2/11)

That would give us a whole week to discuss the first trade, and each pair of issues would receive attention a few days at a time.

Yes?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
11:18 / 02.02.07
Also in relation to this whole 90's revival that seems to be appearing in youth subculture's, music and fashion?

off topic, more or less, i know -- but can you point me to a few concrete examples of the revival? would be most curious to see what yr seeing about it. all's i've noticed so far is a few plaid jackets on beautiful young people, and a band like totsimoshi. what have you seen?
(i promise to work this back to invisibles once i've been properly pointed)
 
 
Spaniel
11:49 / 02.02.07
New Rave. The "We Love the 90s" night that runs regularly in a big club in Brighton town centre. This Life being revived for a one off show.

I think you'd do well to remember that the 90s were formative years for people in their late teens - twenties. And they're the folks that tend to drive a lot of popular culture.

Ontopic

I'm not sure I can commit to a schedule like that, Tim. I'm not even sure I can get hold of the books before the end of next week.
 
 
Spaniel
11:50 / 02.02.07
Since when were plaid jacket a 90s fashion accessory?
 
 
Sniv
12:19 / 02.02.07
Since grunge? I had three of the fuckers when I was 13, ten years ago, before I even knew who Kurdt Cobains was.

btw, very much in for this re-read. I'm looking forward to it very much.
 
 
Spaniel
12:27 / 02.02.07
Really, I don't remember seeing them about ten years ago, and I were a right follower of fashion back then. I wasn't into Grunge though, so that might explain things.

I'll be really interested in looking at the Invisibles as a product of its time. I imagine much of its aesthetic will make me cringe.
 
 
Blake Head
17:04 / 02.02.07
I'm with Der Falke - I think that once everyone's ready then one trade a week sounds about right, breaking it down further sounds like it might be a bit fussy. Also think an analyis of The Filth would make a nice dessert after the main course. Much denser work though: maybe issue by issue?
 
 
The Falcon
17:09 / 02.02.07
The Filth would make a nice dessert after the main course.

More correctly is the poo after pudding.
 
 
Blake Head
17:12 / 02.02.07
Well quite.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:52 / 02.02.07
So when is the starting point (for the first trade, if that is indeed the route taken)? This Sunday?
 
 
PatrickMM
20:13 / 02.02.07
Yeah, Sunday is a good start. I think we should just work from the schedule TimCalahan presented, and see how that goes for the first week. One other issue, should each chunk of issues get its own thread? That's the way I'd go, just for clarity of discussion, but it might clog the board by the end. Any thoughts?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:06 / 02.02.07
I'm in too. Hopefully we'll come to some sort of conclusion about what the deal is with John A Dreamz.

I will also force some of my pals to think, seriously, about what was really going on in the chess game that time.

Also, and I think this is key; what was going on between Helga, King Mob and Fanny in thatt scene?

Did ze touch King Mob's Old Bill?
 
 
TimCallahan
21:23 / 02.02.07
I think we should keep it all on one massive thread. Especially because we are going to be building knowledge as we go. Plus, different threads would clog up the board, you're right.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
22:39 / 02.02.07
Nice proposal, Oddman.

Now this is, I suspect, the 69th post on this thread (read into that what thou wilt), and I think it's about time that we stopped talking about re-annotating The Invisibles, and start, y'know, doing it.

So, somebody please:

A) Start a new thread (or threads), in which the new annotations will live and (hopefully) thrive.

B) Impose some structure to this. My suggestion is to concentrate on 1 x issue every 14 days. This might seem like a long time to focus on a single issue, but if we really believe this is worth doing, and really believe in the richness of the material, this is quite probably too limited a time-span.

C) Decide whether each issue should have its own thread, or whether they should all be lumped together in a glorious, yet slightly wobbly blamanche. I'd go for issue-by-issue threads, contained within a new 'stripe' on the Barbelith front page, in the manner of headshop, temple etc. Even now, I can hear the dodos of doubt gathering (and I can see that the likely arguments against Barbelith becoming so weighted towards GM again holding much weight), but really, if this is worth pursuing, it is worth pursuing properly. Yes, it would demand some front-and-back-end tech work, and the appointment of some Invisi-Mods (now, the scraps over who gets to do that will be fun), but if we're serious about this being something worthwhile, that's probably what it takes...

D) Make sure any contemporary discussions of what is, after all, now a historical work feel contemporary. Yes, there is a Neu-rave / Web 2.0 / culture wars / even fucking Britpop revival going on right now, but that is arguably about a certain nostalgia for 'safer' times (politically, economically, culturally etc.). If we really are advancing towards a super/hyper-context or so on, let's track that advance.

E) Make sure we talk about The Invisibles' shortcomings. Everything and nothing is a sacred text, so let's keep that in mind.

F) Make sure all those new 'lithers who (apparently) have joined on the basis of their interest in The Invisibles feel welcome vis a vis their contributions. So low-snark, please, and a low level of showboating from high-profile members of the board.

G) Establish a high-snark thread as a home for all those who want to mock Invisi-Extrapolaters, and then eventually merge the Pro- and Anti- threads because GM showed us that the Invisible College and the Outer Church are, like, TEH SAME THING1!!

H) Call time on this 'Let's see if the ol' Hypersigil' thread if it just spirals into 'discussions about discussions'. Really, if the proposed project is to happen, it needs leadership, and needs it soon.

I) No wanking.

(Please add points corresponding to the SECRET LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET below).
 
  

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