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New groups who, arguably, ought to be lined up and shot.

 
  

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Phex: Dorset Doom
10:27 / 17.01.07
Ooh, that reminds me: above I promised to reveal a shocking musical secret of my own if rizla 'fessed up to which of the bands on my list above s/he listens to. Well, I'm a thing of its word, so here it goes:

The first band I ever saw live was KoRn. Or, more accurately, the first band I ever saw live was their support act, Christian Nu-Metallers P.O.D. You can see why I get a little over-zealous when discussing bad music. It's one of those quest-for-redemption things.

Okay, now in the spirit of the thread itself, here's a relatively new band who arguably ought to be lined up and shot:

Wolfmother

Led Zeppelin exist. This is strong truth, verifiable and empirical. Wolfmother also exist, but this is beside the point. Wolfmother has turned up to the party (which is a costume party) at 1am with a dish-cloth wrapped around their head, a crucifix shaped piece of card coated in tinfoil which they refer to as a 'sword', a scar drawn on their left cheek in felt pen that is already beginning to smudge, and they want everybody to think that they're Jack Sparrow from the Pirates of the Caribbean film franchise. To this end they say 'Yarr' and 'Shiver me timbers' a lot and talk in an accent that, at its most authentically piratical, approaches a Devonshire farmer. Trouble is, there was already somebody dressed as Jack Sparrow at the party, and they wore a costume so authentic that it could have only come from Johnny Depp's wardrobe, drank everybody under the table and left with the five most beautiful girls at the party. At 4am Wolfmother continues to say 'Yarr' and wave his little cardboard sword around, wondering why nobody wants to dance. Poor Wolfmother.
No, wait, fuck Wolfmother, fuck Wolfmother to the Nth power.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:49 / 17.01.07
Oh, alright, I don't wish any of you were dead. What I do wish, what I really would like, is if some of the people contributing to this thread would take the time to post more about the bands and music they do like, so that the Music forum is less easily mistaken for an episode of the 'hilarious' BBC cultural commentary show Grumpy Old Men.
 
 
Mike Phillips
10:54 / 17.01.07
Oh, alright, I don't wish any of you were dead. What I do wish, what I really would like, is if some of the people contributing to this thread would take the time to post more about the bands and music they do like, so that the Music forum is less easily mistaken for an episode of the 'hilarious' BBC cultural commentary show Grumpy Old Men.

Well, we might have to start a different thread for that

Just kidding. I love the Mars Volta. Even though people complain about his voice, you can't deny how musically talented they are. They blow my simple mind.

Also, even though Wolfmother seems like a rehash of the 70s, I think that they have a couple of cool moves on that debut album. They hanve't blown my mind, by they're ok.
 
 
Sniv
12:05 / 17.01.07
Hey, dotcommie, I'd watch out admitting to liking the Volta if I were you, there are at least two threads on the Barb which have more than their fair share of people slagging them off with their tired an innaccurate Dream Theatre comparisons, despite what Flyboy would like the music forum to be.

Not that that is a seriously-intended dig though, as I agree with Fly, we should be more positive about music, it's what makes life good. I find a lot of the problem is that although we may love Cedric and Omar's skinny-assed prog, a lot of other people don't, and getting them to keep their hate-filled opinions to themselves in an appreciation thread is sometimes a little tricky. I see a lot of bands i love get a fair amount of piss-takery around here, which makes me not want to post defending them.

I think that music is so important to some people that attacks on someone's favourite bands often feel like personal attacks to the receiver, if you know what I mean. Which is why I was so OTT about Gwen upthread, but that's another story. So yeah, I get quite irrational when I say I love a band and then I have to read them being slagged off, so I usually don't post about them, if only to save myself from the hot feeling of rage behind my eyes when another person claims the Volta sound like Dream Theatre, or than Green Day are for little kids.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:19 / 17.01.07
So, you'll give it out but you won't take it, is what you're saying? You'll slag off music other people like, but you won't talk about music you like for fear somebody will slag it off, because when that happens it really hurts on a personal level?

Dude. That's an appalling way to behave. Next up, you'll be saying that nobody could really like Gwen Stefani, not the way you like the Mars Volta, and if anyone claims to then they are just pretending in order to be difficult, right?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
12:25 / 17.01.07
Razorlight... How can I put this? I can't - they're too shite.. Nonsense poster-boy blarings heaped on diluted AOR-cum-indie. They are the McFlies on the celeb poodle turds of Primrose Hill.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:27 / 17.01.07
That, on the other hand, is hard to dispute.
 
 
Mike Phillips
12:33 / 17.01.07
Yeah, music is based on opinion, so I try not to get heated about it. I don't know much about Dream Theatre, so I can't say yay or nay. But if all people can do is say, "Mars Volta sucks, try Dream Theatre," (or vice versa)that seems obviously narrow-minded.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:47 / 17.01.07
Well, these threads are available for your reference, where you will be able to find a broad range of opinions on the Mars Volta and Dream Theatre.

Most recent thread, which links to the two previous threads, one of which is basically a joke thread. Some people think they sound like Dream Theatre. Some people think they are not as good as At the Drive In. Some people like them.
 
 
Sniv
12:54 / 17.01.07
So, you'll give it out but you won't take it, is what you're saying?

Pretty much I guess, but not exactly. I would guess that the vast majority of posts of mine in this forum are pretty positive, becuase as Flyboy rightly points out, it is better to be positive than negative about music. I joined this thread becuase I was feeling pretty stressed by Gwen and wanted to express myself in a particularly cartoony way, having just heard the song on the radio and nearly coughing up blood trying to contain myself in a room full of Gwen fans.

And it's not that I can't take it, I can and do on a regular basis. You could say that becuase of some of the music I like I get it quite a lot, as I'm sure many people here who like some obtuse or 'niche' music feel. My partner hates Belle and Sebastian, for example, and goes to great length to inform me of exactly how much she hates them. What I mean is, I'm not sure if I could bare my sould about my B&S love in a forum where people that I love a lot less than my partner will mock me or the band for it.

If this makes little to no sense to you, I never said it would and I wouldn't expect it to or care if it doesn't. People (such as me, such as you) are sometimes very irrational and illogical and have feelings or ideas that make little sense to anyone else. You are entitled as much as you wish to praise the bands you love and diss the ones you don't. I was just saying why I express my love a little less than I would otherwise like to.

Next up, you'll be saying that nobody could really like Gwen Stefani, not the way you like the Mars Volta, and if anyone claims to then they are just pretending in order to be difficult, right?

Hey man, if that's the way you feel about Gwen then so be it, but I do not endorse that message. Like who you want, just don't make me listen to it.

And anyway, while I like the Volta, they certainly ain't my favourite band, and I find them really hard to write about, which is another reason why I don't talk about 'em too much round here. I get all my Volta-talk from my meat-space buddies, they're all bigger fans than me. And they like Dream Theatre too.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:58 / 17.01.07
Like who you want, just don't make me listen to it.


Well, that's my weekend free.

Could a moderator move this to the Conversation? It's basically a joke thread, anyway.
 
 
Char Aina
13:14 / 17.01.07
i don't see that it isnt a music thread, comedic or not.
i also don't agree with flyboy that negative conversation about music is bad. i dont think it needs to be excised from the R&M.
convince me if you will, but i'm into it staying here for now.
 
 
Char Aina
13:16 / 17.01.07
trying to contain myself in a room full of Gwen fans.

see, that's wierd, though.
this is a room full of gwen fans too, and it seems like you are less inclined to care about that because they cant...what? hit you? fire you? stop passing you the spliff?

i think railing off about bands is fine, and i don't much care for the attitude that you shouldnt criticise a band in case someone present takes it personally.
 
 
rizla mission
13:19 / 17.01.07
Why is this a joke thread?

Yeah it doesn't exactly set a new yardstick for constructive debate, but so far it has at least involved a number of people actually talking about, and offering differing opinions on, some music, which is more than can be said for most other threads in the music forum at the moment.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:22 / 17.01.07
You could say that becuase of some of the music I like I get it quite a lot, as I'm sure many people here who like some obtuse or 'niche' music feel.

You think that people who like "obtuse or 'niche' music" have to put up with their music taste being slagged off more than those who like, for example, Justin Timberlake? My experience since leaving school has been that if you like something that people - e.g. friends, colleagues, interweb sparring partners - have never heard of, then most people will be indifferent at worst. Pure pop music, on the other hand, is almost inevitably seen as a valid punchbag by armchair pundits and 'proper' critics alike...

I hope Alex's Grandma won't consider it a breach of confidence if I say that I know for a fact that he did not intend this thread to be about established pop stars who have been having solo success for a couple of years and were in successful bands for years before that. But 'even' on Barbelith, it seems the easy, obvious targets must have a few shots taken at them.
 
 
Sniv
13:48 / 17.01.07
Pure pop music, on the other hand, is almost inevitably seen as a valid punchbag by armchair pundits and 'proper' critics alike...

Point taken and agreed with.

this is a room full of gwen fans too,

I know, that's what gave me the pleasure in sending my midget assasins in. I stay well away from all 'praise' threads for bands I dislike, as it's not the place to be rubbishing them with childish insults that require no backing up and are purely for cathartic release. Unlike this thread, which seems to be open season by comparison.

what? hit you? fire you? stop passing you the spliff?

I figure my respect-o-meter is low enough on here that I can go around machine-gunning sacred cows as much as I want. I don't think I can drop that much further down in Barb's estimation, can I? How much further is there??

And yes, if this were meatspace I fear the only spiff I'll be getting is the golden toke, all wet with saliva and with no actual green in it, just a bit of baccy and a train ticket.
 
 
Char Aina
14:14 / 17.01.07
the easy, obvious targets must have a few shots taken at them.

for my part, yeah, they must.
only if they do work i percieve as not good, not good enough or not as good as it should be.
the less obvious bands(like tool, say) must also, if and when they fuck up and i'm paying attention.

Pure pop music, on the other hand, is almost inevitably seen as a valid punchbag by armchair pundits and 'proper' critics alike...

it is a valid 'punching bag', if by that you mean 'target for criticism'.

i think the issue isnt that these are sleazy abusive potshots from the comfort of a sizable peer group(although they are in this case, and that is surely often a factor when discussing pop either positively or negatively) but because they are 'bigger' and therefore more well known. you nailed it when you mentioned the indifference, i reckon. if you like stuff that no one has heard of they can't very well offer an opinion based on anything other than what you tell them.

pop, though, we all know.
everyone has a comment on big brother too, y'know?

i like some of the stef's output.
i also like a lot of other pop, and i won't lie to you; i have listened to bands purely because you have recomended them on here.

i still reserve the right the right to disagree with you, and i don't feel i should take account of some 'pop power dynamic' when doing so. just because you got shit after school for not being hip enough for your friends doesnt mean i should feel bad for hating 'wind it up'. i said what i thought was crap about it, didnt i?

unless you only like pop so that you can be more alternative than everyone else by being alternative to the alternative, then i don't get why that would even be an issue.

i do take your point that gwen is neither a 'band' nor entirely 'new', though. two years is hardly new these days. i mean, lilly allen doesnt even feel new anymore, and it seems like only yesterday she was all smiles.
i think my interpretation of the thrust of the thread was that new music was up for slagging off and that 'band' was a loose term. the stef's latest song fitted the bill for me, but i can see how that doesnt chime with what you say alex's thoughts were.
i apologise for that misunderstanding, and will take some time to think of some new bands if i get the time later.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:20 / 17.01.07
just because you got shit after school for not being hip enough for yor friends doesnt mean i should feel bad for hating 'wind it up'.

Do you have any idea how you sound, toksik? I have a feeling that in your head you sound very reasonable, very companionable and egalitarian, but also very witty. I don't think this comes across sometimes.
 
 
HCE
14:32 / 17.01.07
"I joined this thread becuase I was feeling pretty stressed by Gwen"

What did she do to you, exactly?
 
 
Char Aina
14:48 / 17.01.07
there?
there i sound quite snotty and a little heated.
angry? aggro? ticked off? something like that, depending on what those words mean to you.
i toned down the original post to be less [pick a word] because i was aware that i was letting a lot more aggression through than was fair.

this was happening, i believe, because i resent flyboy's implication that in expressing my dismay at gwen's latest song i am taking on an easy target, and that i am doing so for the same reasons he has decied everyone has done so since he left school; for the ease itself.

i didnt think i was being particluarly witty.
why did you think i did?
 
 
Char Aina
14:49 / 17.01.07
perhaps this conversation would be best had outside of this thread, dude.
PMs?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:53 / 17.01.07
I think we should focus on gourami.
 
 
Mike Phillips
15:54 / 17.01.07
umm, anyway, that new guy Manilow really bothers me
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:02 / 17.01.07
1) Well, here we are. The reason I asked about whether people disliked the bands before or after hype was that quite often it's hard, when you've not been at those first gigs/on that original list of myspace friends, and been there all the way, as it were, to see what a given artist or band is all about. Especially if we only see them as a video or as a soundtrack to some E4 documentary about idiots or bigged up by the NME.

However, the given band or artist must be "all about" something, or they wouldn't be big, and this something is what I'm interested in.

2) I also think it's quite hard not to feel threatened when you hear lots of people talk in a foreign language. However, one wouldn't, on going to France, Azerbaijan, etc, immediately start hating on everyone there. Well, you might, but I don't think we'd like you very much if you did. In fact I'd say that even though it's easy to feel threatened by people talking in a foreign language it is still not really excusable to get all haterish on those people.

3) Which is also what I now think about music, despite my earlier idiocy which you can see on various threads around here.

4) Which is why this thread is quite the irritant. Even though there's obviously jokery intended at some level ("Objections, irrational or otherwise, to up-and-coming music acts", "the bile has got to come out somewhere") I find it quite disspiriting.
 
 
Char Aina
16:24 / 17.01.07
i'm not sure i get the parralel of point 2.
are you suggesting i only dislike stuff because i speak a different language, metaphorically speaking?
like, if i had been educated in a different tradition i would like stuff i currently do not?
that the only barrier to loving, well, everything really, is my lack of the relevant experience, experience that would shape my world view into one conducive to doing so?

let me know if i'm misunderstanding you.

i think that has some validity(i had to learn the 'language' of hip hop, to some extent, when i first discovered it, and likewise techno, grime, jazz, etc) but i wonder how much it really accounts for my dislike of some acts.
y'know; the ones with whom i share a language, but who still talk what hits me as useless gibberish.

wolfmother, upthread, are a good example.
they suck, i feel, and i like a lot of their influences. i also hated audioslave, and i am native to the tongue that both bands speak. i'm definitely in their demographic, y'know?
likewise the stef.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
18:26 / 17.01.07
The reason I asked about whether people disliked the bands before or after hype was that quite often it's hard, when you've not been at those first gigs/on that original list of myspace friends, and been there all the way, as it were, to see what a given artist or band is all about.

I take your point, but I'm not sure I'd agree. Granted, it's not explicitly stated in the summary, so, you know, my mistake, but the kind of bands being discussed here (broadly speaking, new groups with the kind of media profile that makes it possible to develop fairly strong negative feelings towards them on the basis of one album, a couple of singles or possibly even less, so basically NME bands and pop acts,) surely don't require that level of engagement before it's legitimate to form an opinion? Actually, I'm not sure if any band does. But to take the example of (and I know it's easy to pick on them but there they are on the television most evenings anyway, peddling their wares,) The Frattellis, I feel, perhaps wrongly, that I've got a perfect understanding of the men and their music based on the sixty second advert that's currently doing the rounds - I don't honestly think that the experience of having gone to all their early gigs would have altered my opinion much.

The point about hype's an interesting one though. Over in the Bloc Party thread (it's here or hereabouts,) various people have talked about getting into the band's music at parties and so on, without being all that aware of what they apparently stand for in a broader media context. Perhaps it's because I never get invited to parties, or because I still read the NME now and again when I really shouldn't, but I honestly can't remember the last time that happened to me. Horrendously, it was probably with 'Grace' by Jeff Buckley, which I think I finally heard in about 2003, having nursed a mild, but I like to think principled dislike of the cult of Jeff for some time before then. To which, all right, one could point out that it's best to listen to whoever it is properly before forming an opinion based on their press pack, but on the other hand, you can't listen to everything, at least unless you're being paid for it, and even then you'd struggle a bit these days, I think. And it seems counter-intuitive to go to the trouble of buying something if you're reasonably sure, however unfairly, that you're not going to enjoy it. Similarly, down-loading's free, but I don't really find that an especially pleasing process, it seems time-consuming and irritating, and on my computer anyway, the results always sound a bit tinny, like listening to medium wave radio.

All of which, I suppose, is by way of saying that I wish it was still the Nineties, but seeing as it isn't, a light-hearted thread devoted to having a go at new bands seems more entertaining, to me personally, than another short discussion about music that people actually like, as these tend to fizzle out around post #15, at least unless somebody starts being contrary.
 
 
Spaniel
19:18 / 17.01.07
(I'm not sure Belle and Sebastian would get a slagging, John)
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
21:37 / 17.01.07
a light-hearted thread devoted to having a go at new bands seems more entertaining, to me personally, than another short discussion about music that people actually like

I don't really think that this thread exists simply to say that all new music is shit- we did that with Mr. The-Gays-control-the-fashion guy. There are some wonderful, wonderful, life-changingly amazing bands around right now, just as there always has been, and, as always, it is a tiny percentage compared to the bands who just shouldn't be making music, generally because somebody in the smaller percentage does what they do better.
Also, Alecto: when you say that (a) given band or artist must be "all about" something, or they wouldn't be big what kinds of something could a band be all about? Examples? Why is it limited to the tiny, tiny percentage of people who just happen to have been around in the time between a band forming and getting big- which in the case of bands like the Arctic Monkeys and Klaxons isn't very long at all? How are those outside of that tiny percentage meant to form opinions on music? If I see a band I've never heard of on the cover of NME, I hear them on the radio and see their video on MTV and decide based on the single they put out to show what they're 'all about' that they're not for me, that they're bland and soulless and derivative, am I then obligated to buy their album and seek out bootleg video footage of early shows to establish that it was a mistake to buy their album and seek out bootleg video footage of early shows? Who has that much time and money?
 
  

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