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Superheroes: THE END

 
  

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Blake Head
15:13 / 09.01.07
Fantastic Four: The End is out – anyone reading? It follows X-Men: The End, which I didn’t follow, but picked up from The X-Axis that unless you’re a Claremont devotee it was unutterably uninteresting, and entirely failed to address the main themes of the series. I do remember liking Peter David’s Hulk: The End from a few years back. DC have done similar standalone not-quite-canon alternate future style endings, most memorably for the Batman in The Dark Knight Returns, and effectively for the JLA in Kingdom Come. So I’m sure it’s not a new trick, but it does feel like in the ongoing struggle for new material there’s a growing trend for speculative conclusions not just to individual storylines or books, but to the entire currently ongoing mythos of these characters. Which is fine. But what do people think? What’s the right ending for these characters? Is it worth distinguishing between the semi-official conclusions and the Twilight of the Gods themes that run through but do not disturb a series' basic continuity? What books exist that have nailed it - that have summed up the ideals and aspirations of a character or characters' origin and played them out till the right future? And if those books don’t exist, what (serious and non-serious suggestions welcome) should they be about when they do?

I think I remember from a hazy barbe-meet suggesting, possibly unwisely, that an ending story to the (Dark Age) Batman character where he “wins” would involve getting over himself, retiring his utility belt and devoting his time and money to eradicating poverty and the other “real” causes of crime. Which would be as dull as dishwater to read, and would pretty much miss the point of the “ludicrous-villain-battling hairy chested playboy” side to the character. So I don’t think all characters necessarily do have endings that we’d want to see in print. Are efforts like The End: books worth doing? Because there’s not going to be a definitive conclusion to any series making money now, we know that the writers and publishers will mine the myriad of alternate possibilities for each character as long as we remain intrigued. The ongoing debate about the difficulties of balancing a character’s growth and progression with fidelity to their original traits and goals must have contributed to the various retellings of the ending and origin stories (Ultimates, Mythos, Year One, etc.), never mind the moveable feast of their status quo. The sort of arrested bildungsroman of most superhero comics has had to accommodate various reboots, retcons, rejuvenations and rolling presents, as well as events like the marriages of Clark Kent and Lois Lane, Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. Nothing new there. But do these events fit into an eventual conclusion for each character, or do they limit its possibilities, leaving a series with nothing left to say? When a character has achieved all their original aims, save maybe the ongoing but ever so tiresome battling of evil, what’s left? And if conclusions show us that state of the character – are they a good idea?
 
 
Axolotl
17:01 / 09.01.07
The best of the Marvel's "Hero: The End" series has got to be be Garth Ennis' & Richard Corben's "Punisher: The End" it's fantasticly bleak, just like the best of Ennis' Punisher work, and Corben just knocks that sucker right out of the park. It's a one shot and if you find it I'd definitely buy it. I think it works because it just continues Frank Castle's crusade to its ultimate end. Possibly the concept works particularly well with the Punisher as opposed to a character with more room for personal development and/or a "soap-opera" element to thier stories.
 
 
Mario
17:33 / 09.01.07
Unless you want to kill them off, there's only one ending that ever works:

"And they lived happily ever after".
 
 
John Octave
17:38 / 09.01.07
Well, "Born Again" is essentially Daredevil: The End, except that they had to put out another issue the next month and then keep going.

Even though it's an Elseworlds anyway, the ending to Red Son is a good capstone to the Luthor/Superman war. Kingdom Come is okay, but maybe I'm just really happy that Brainiac's Daughter is in it.

Beyond that, I agree with Axolotl that characters who don't have a frequent status-quo shakeup are easier to write The Ends for. In the 20 years since Dark Knight Returns, I don't think anything major's been done to "invalidate" that as a potential future continuity-wise, but the Last Spider-Man story of 1986 and 2006 would probably have to look very different in terms of supporting cast, etc. Add to that that DC heroes are more mythic and thus lend themselves to a "twilight of the gods," whereas Spider-Man: The End would probably be something like the Shocker gets incredibly lucky one random day in March and winds up killing him in a "funny ol' world" kind of way.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
17:38 / 09.01.07
"The comic sold so poorly they canceled it, and then brought it back every four years with whatever was the hot way of doing super-heroes at the time."
 
 
grant
19:36 / 09.01.07
I just realized that Spider-Man would probably get shot by a security guard or something stupid like that -- unless he outlived J. Jonah Jameson, in which case he would either age into Batman or else become the Steve Jobs to Tony Stark's Bill Gates.

Has Peter Parker in fact outlived J. Jonah in the comics world? What was Jameson's funeral like?
 
 
Blake Head
20:37 / 09.01.07
I think I heard the Punisher one was good, if I see it I’ll have a look. I see what you’re saying about DC, John, but it depends, the obvious one I was thinking about for that was the Days of Future Past run – though the X-Men obviously didn’t end there. It’s funny that Mario mentions happy endings, because thinking about it Dark Knight Returns doesn’t really have Batman end, or die, or grow up; there’s just a continuation of where he left off, a renewal of the basic ideals of the character. Which again is fine, but sort of the whole point is that most characters would eventually, realistically, come up against the limits of their fictional reality. Batman gets too feeble to cut it, Superman keeps going but Lois dies. There are ways around it, possibly really interesting or fantastic ways (Lois being given a serum to keep her youthful indefinitely), but largely the characters as they are seem to be in continual struggle to avoid real loss or resolution, but obsessed by it at the same time. Which is formally interesting maybe. Are there any endings where the characters step back, accept the limits of responsibility and retire? That’s about the only “happy” way I can see a character like Spiderman “stopping”, but whether they’ll ever do that is hard to say.
 
 
Mario
21:46 / 09.01.07
There's a Sandman quote that applies here:

"All Bette's stories have happy endings.
That's because she knows where to stop.
She's realized the real problem with stories --
if you keep them going long enough,
they always end in death."
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:04 / 09.01.07
Fantastic Four: The End has been serviceable, but ultimately fails to read as anything more than the barest of popcorn because it's secretly all about Alan Davis doing far future versions of today's heroes. It's all about the pretty. Davis has a habit of writing far-reaching cosmic epics (I'm looking at The Nail & its sequel) but usually ends up with too much potential material to fit into the shell he's been allotted. I like that for the most part this is just another FF adventure and that everybody's grown up and had mostly happy endings, even if they're a bit complicated (Sue and Reed's marriage is disintegrating due to lack of interest because of increased immortality) but Davis is trying to put too much into it. And I'd love to see more of a "new" Fantastic Four rather than the old guard being extremely long-lived. The series unconsciously emphasizes the stasis of the Fantastic Four.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
22:17 / 09.01.07
Isn't "All Star Superman" an end story, even if it takes place in the present since it implies that Superman is going to transcend time and space?
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
22:23 / 09.01.07
The notion of an 'end' in narratives concerned with intellectual properties that continue to make money is flawed.

Compare: Spiderman & Achilles

Compare: Wolverine & Genji

The REALLY interesting thing about this notion is not definitive ends, but rather the constant recapitulation of beginnings. This, surely, is the only way forward for the comics' companies. The Ultimate universe is a snake that will shed its skin every 7 years or so.

'The End' comics are fine in terms of speculative meta-fiction, but really one should create one's own end, and not Claremont's-on-a-deadline's etc. Fuck Marvel's authority at a given point in time. You own your own end.
 
 
matthew.
01:21 / 10.01.07
I thought Achilles' story was at its most interesting when the end hovered continuously over the hero. In fact, isn't his death one of the most important parts of his life? He had to choose between immortality/death in war OR simplicity and longevity in life. We know he ultimately chose to die gloriously in war and then famously regreted it in the underworld. Spider-man and Achilles can only be compared in their angst. Spider-man's mythos definitely does not come from his predestined death. Sure, Pete risks his life everyday, but that's not the same as knowing that you're going to die in battle.

In my opinion, imagining the end of the story is the most interesting part of the story. I love series finales and part three of trilogies. I love endings! One of the comics I've written in my head a hundred times is the death of Spider-man.

Look how well the death of Superman sold. People like to imagine the ending(s) of their favorite characters. We like to fast forward twenty years and watch them die. Like Godfather Part 3, the death of Michael Corleone has almost nothing to do with the plot of the movie. But it's fascinating watching him die. It's definitive.

Certainly it's flawed to think we're ever going to see a canonical and permanent death of a major comic book character. (Man, they even brought Bucky back.) But conjecture and imagining is fun. Wait a minute. Isn't that the point?
 
 
Triplets
02:29 / 10.01.07
You own your own end.

I'd like to think so but the gas bills are mounting up and they pay such good money for bareback.
 
 
Blake Head
07:30 / 10.01.07
matt: care to share a synoposis of Spiderman: The End with us, or are you feeling proprietary?
 
 
Quantum
10:17 / 10.01.07
I like heroes to retire and hand on the mantle to the next generation a la the Flash. Of course, running into lightspeed to save the universe is a pretty good way to go too.
 
 
Blake Head
11:01 / 10.01.07
Synoposis? Oh dear. That's like a bad villain name. Synopsis clearly.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
13:37 / 10.01.07
Superman: The End= “Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow?”, surely. It’s just lovely, really, filled with love for the characters. The resolution makes sense. And even though it’s very sad at times (Krypto, Lana and Jimmy, even Lex’s plea to Lana to kill him) it all makes sense and feel real to the characters.

As for Batman, while “Dark Knight Returns” is a very good piece, I’ve never really accepted it s a sort of ‘last’ Batman story (even before they did the sequel). For me, Batman’s ending would be gradual, as he eventual realizes that just beating up people doesn’t solve the problem. He’d learn that with all his money and connections, he can actually do more good as Bruce Wayne then he ever did as Batman. Also, there’d be a final battle with the Joker where he falls into a tube of molten metal or something and dies horribly, laughing the entire time (that final scene in Mask of the Phantasm with the Joker gives me chills to this day). I don’t think Batman could end without the Joker dieing first, so that has to be there. And Bruce and Selina finally get over themselves and hook up permanently.

… That’s the very short version of my final Batman story, minus the Riddler, Scarecrow, a couple new characters I created, and Joe Chill. (And it’s not quite the same Joe Chill as you might be used to.)

Of course, I have some crazy ideas for the JLA and a few other superheroes too, but that’s another story…
 
 
Spaniel
13:42 / 10.01.07
Superman: The End= “Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow?”

Or DC 1000,000
 
 
X-Himy
13:52 / 10.01.07
Kingdom Come was a fairly good end for Batman, and the JLU cartoon had another good end. The problem with Batman of course, is that even if he did spend his money and connections attacking the root causes of crime, he still needs to go out in the costume and beat people up (and my dream story of Batman that I am writing in my head has him secretly funneling money to all sorts of charitable causes like that through shell companies, using political favors to enact gun bans [because if there is one thing that Batman is, he is anti-gun], and working to supply non-lethal weaponry, better training, and more personnel to police departments). Kingdom Come ended with Batman in the role of his father, as a healer, and JLU had him pass the mantle onto his protege, but still having a strong hand in it until he faded away.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:26 / 10.01.07
Zahir's comments very interesting I kinda agree, but then Red Son does both for Superman - an ending and beginning at the end innit.

what's the story about gm actually conceiving that particular circular narrative?

or am I misinformed?
 
 
Mario
15:38 / 10.01.07
Here's a Batman ending for you.

"Gotham billionaire Bruce Wayne died in his sleep last night. He is survived by his two adopted sons, Richard Grayson Wayne, the CEO of the Wayne Foundation and Commisioner Timothy Drake Wayne of Gotham City."
 
 
Spaniel
16:23 / 10.01.07
What is it with you lot and Kingdom Come. I reread it recently, and, as much as I like Mark Waid, I think it's just awful. But the art: old men in pants and nylon. Excellent.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:59 / 10.01.07
Judge Dredd - The End:

So Dredd finally takes the Long Walk into the Cursed Earth. Naturally enough bringinging Law to the Lawless. Time passes, Dredd continues onwards, further and further into the irradiated wastelands, where barely any life sustains itself. Barren, desolate, hellish. The kind of mutants that dwell here are barely human, twisted red raw monsters. Truly lawless. Dredd dutifully brings them justice. But by now the radiation is affecting the old man himself twisting his flesh and his mind. Soon he is barely recognisable, his uniform and flesh fused together in a perverted parody of the Judges. Still he continues, blowing away anything he comes across in a relentless and nihilistic path of destruction. This is where we leave him.
Cut to a Hotdog run, cadet judges on a routine training mission into the Cursed Earth. In the distance they see a shambling form stumbling towards them. A bestial cry emits from it's twisted mouth hole. A single shot rings out and it's head bursts like a melon. It falls to the floor.
"Good shot Cadet" states the Judge in charge. "The only good mutant is a dead mutant".
They ride off leaving the corpse. Upon it's chest we can just make out some misshapen flesh forming the word DREDD.
 
 
Sniv
17:09 / 10.01.07
What is it with Kingdom Come? The whole thing is worth it for that climactic scene where Batman and his allies come down from the sky like ebony Valkyries, Bruce with a big ol' smirk on his face. Yeah go Bataman!!1! And the 'Shazam' scene. And I still have a big softspot for The Kingdom as well.
 
 
Spaniel
17:38 / 10.01.07
But it's not very good (Kingdom Come, I mean). Go read it again.
 
 
Spaniel
17:40 / 10.01.07
Mac, that's pretty perfect. Of course, Dredd did end, it's just that most people didn't notice.
 
 
Quantum
17:48 / 10.01.07
Kingdom Come was rubbish, Boboss speaks strong truth. How about Strontium Dog's exit? Was there an end to Slaine, I forget?
 
 
Spaniel
17:54 / 10.01.07
Q, I think Mac made that up. The ending I was referring to was Gumbitch's reading of Tale of the Dead Man
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:03 / 10.01.07
Yeah 'Tale of the Dead Man' is the final Dredd story. I reckon Wagner wrote is as such. All further exploits have been pale retreads of previous classics.
Agreed on Kingdom Come. Looks, feels and smells like an epic, but just somehow isn't. And I've got a lot of time for Waid. It's the only Ross art I can bare though, which is something. Oh, and the Astro City covers.
 
 
grant
19:39 / 10.01.07
I bought the first issue of Kingdom Come and thought it was brilliant, ambiguous and legendary.

Then I realized it wasn't actually a stand-alone story.

Sigh.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
23:03 / 10.01.07
Kingdom Come is much wrongness... save me from those scenes with a fat Supes emoting with 'Bruce... We always meant to guide them, not to rule them ', who counter-emotes with 'Kal... heavy hangs the crown'.

Uggh.

The Dead Man, however, rocks hard. 'Joe, we always meant to guide them, not to rule them'. 'Cass, heavy hangs the crown'.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
03:21 / 11.01.07
Just why is Kingdom Come Rubbish?

I thought it was silly in a lot of parts (I'll admit its not completely worth the praise some people pay to it), but the art was beautiful and the story was actually fun. It really just a solid annual (like a lot of the other future stories out there) that has been painted by a top notch-artist. Not the grand masterpiece that some people claim it is, but not rubbish either.

P.S. Robo-Cop Batman was something I found extremely silly...ditto for Wonder Woman's battle suit. But there are so many other cool moments in it.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
03:24 / 11.01.07
Also is Morrison's "Kid Eternity" an "end" story? I assumed that Kid and his saintly friend, were ripped apart by demons after successfully completing their mission of summoning Chaos Stars. Where can the characters go after that anyway?
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
03:30 / 11.01.07
Promise to stop now.

But a good Zatana ending:


"RETFA-REVE YLIPPAH DEVIL EW DNA"
 
 
osymandus
06:45 / 11.01.07
No I think the Zatana endings perfect .
DC have already done their universe's end in Books of Magic , which for me summ's it all up rather well .

I agree with the previous posting on the only way the story end's is with "happily ever after" or death hopefully can work together .

The Punisher the end : Was up there with Punisher vs Archie.
Really nice idea , but failed to work on any "practical" level in it's narrative universe. "charcters" stop using their powers and brains and just let them selfs get shot ok .. hows that a narrative ?? One mans quest for vegeance with guns agianst well at least 50+ other peoples quest for venege who are mostly bulletproof
 
  

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