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Nobilis RPG

 
  

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Blake Head
15:22 / 26.11.06
Nobilis – The Game of Sovereign Powers



I seem to remember some people making positive noises about the Nobilis RPG relatively recently, so this thread is really just to quickly ask: is enough interest from people with the core book or those interested in learning to get an online game going?

It’s been out a few years but I never managed to get a game organised despite loving the scope of the setting, and the web is littered, so far as I can see, with similar stories of fans not able to organise enough local players and the ruins of previous abandoned net games. So before this gem of a game is totally forgotten, I wanted to at least have a go of setting up some sort of play by email / msn / Barbelith thread game whose theme, conveniently enough, is about the struggle against the erosion of unique concepts. If the game is as good as everyone (including me) who mentions it seems to think it is, I reckon it can only be done justice by attempting to play it and finding out if it really is too formless, or too full of possibilities or just too damn good to be actually playable, or not.

If there’s any interest we could use this thread to further discuss the setting and the format, possibly shifting over to Creation for setting up the actual game. If there’s not any interest then it’ll just die quietly won’t it?

So: who’s interested in playing/running a game of Nobilis?
 
 
charrellz
00:04 / 27.11.06
This intrigues me. Not sure about the mechanics of online play (actually, not really sure about the mechanics of any play), but this seems like all sorts of awesome fun. Count me in.
 
 
Quantum
13:36 / 27.11.06
I'd be cautiously interested but the mechanics of online play are an issue, a text based game is much much slower and much much more work than a spoken face to face game.
 
 
Ticker
18:02 / 27.11.06
I've been waiting for the spouse to HURRY UP AND FINISH READING IT so I can. It's sitting in my living room and the few stolen pages I've read are amazing.

Of special interest to me is that it is written by a woman and is getting great reviews in the world of RPG.

ME WANT TO PLAY!!!!
 
 
iconoplast
18:09 / 27.11.06
I've heard a lot of really good things about this game, and I'd like to try it out - I'll be more than willing to pick up a copy if someone can explain how we'd play online...
 
 
Isadore
18:43 / 27.11.06
I've been running a game in fits and starts for the past couple of years. It's a lovely system but you might want to track down a searchable PDF since the GWB has a rather useless index. Another quirk is that in a lot of places the system is rather vague; it's a positive feature in that every game is different as its gamemaster puts the final polish on, and at the same time the lack of solid ground can be horrifically frustrating to everyone involved. Several of my players have had a hard time getting their heads around the power scale; it's a system that really rewards elegant, creative solutions, not D&D style problem-solving. ("I hit it with my mace." doesn't cut it.)

The Nobilist is a great resource. It's worth noting that many online groups have tried to get started there, and so far as I can tell, all of them have fallen apart.
 
 
lekvar
21:07 / 27.11.06
It certainly is a gorgeous concept, but I can certainly see why it would be impossible to get a game rolling. That said, if you can figure out how to get a game going online I'd be happy to play.
 
 
Quantum
09:34 / 28.11.06
Something with the simplest possible plot and characters that get on might work, if everyone's into team play. It's the inter-party conflict that complicates things up, if we played a straightforward cabal of good guys fighting teh eevil it just might work.
We might need a wiki though, or could play by email...
 
 
invisible_al
09:58 / 28.11.06
Have you considered using Skype, or a Teamspeak server along with MSN/whatever to pass notes?

Btw this is also an excuse for me to point to this awesome So you've just been Enobled pamflet .
 
 
The Strobe
12:38 / 28.11.06
Just wanted to raise a second pointer to Skype - I know a bunch of guys from a videogaming board I'm on decided to run a 7-player D&D crawl via Skype, with several new players, and it's turned out very successfully for them - because of time constraints, it became a very "episodic" experience, doing an hour or two per night, with the DM running fixed-scope sessions.
 
 
Ticker
13:13 / 28.11.06
it would be a great learning experience even if it was a bit frustrating.

I think Quants might be onto something, can we try a really slim version of it?
Crap I have to find time to read the book now!
 
 
Isadore
14:26 / 28.11.06
The Skype/Teamspeak/Ventrillo idea sounds fantastic -- speeds things up a lot. I'm in too, if you'll let me; I've been wanting to play it for a good five or six years now.
 
 
Ticker
14:35 / 28.11.06
well do the folks who have played it have any suggestions on how we should do this?

I am but an Egg.
 
 
Blake Head
16:33 / 28.11.06
Wow. I thought I’d be lucky to get a single response. After all the enthusiasm I am now (cautiously) very excited about doing this!

The Nobilist is indeed a great place for further discussion of the mechanics and themes. I’d forgotten all about it, you reminded me of my spending nights in the computer labs reading the archives back when it was on… Nocturne? Anyway, as I recall chancel.org was also really well done, though that’s sadly gone I think. I’m trying to collate some other links just now that will help with character creation and setting.

I know what Quants is saying, but I’m not sure what a Nobilis game would be like without shades of grey. As pointed out above, it’s not a dungeon bash, it’s not even primarily about careful, linear investigative stuff, it’s basically about being individuals whose actions have enormous, open-ended consequences, within a society of those individuals, where that society is under threat – and where that society is sort of representative of, well, everything in creation.

[As a sidepoint, there are plenty of excellent games, I’m thinking of Aberrant particularly, where you can do quite complex things with the setting, examining larger themes and character loyalties, but you can equally well have a four-colour mega-powered supervillain smash ‘em-up; I’m not sure Nobilis could be satisfying played that way however.]

That said, pulling it back again, it’s basically just about playing at being that individual. Not being sure what the level of response would be, I don’t have an initial plot or setting worked out, but the ideas I do have are so far focusing on the very, very small, and gradually helping the characters explore the possibilities and responsibilities of the role. The “slim version” sounds like it ties in with my own thoughts generally though.

The basic system, each character has four basic attributes, there’s one central, diceless system for action resolution, is actually elegantly simple. The complications come in the endless possibilities for how those attributes are used, and numerous small rules that are really tied to the setting, which could be gradually introduced. Though, given the amount of work I think it might involve, the more people who have access to the book and have a passing familiarity with the setting, cuts down on the amount of explanation the person running it needs to do. We’d need to have a basic run-through of the main concepts as we set it up, but the best guide to the further depths of the game is going to be the book itself.

Timeline wise, I was thinking about spending December discussing the format and settling on players, and if we decide to go ahead start working on characters, Imperators, chancels, and having a bit of a think about what the players want to explore with the game. Then we’d have a bit of a break over the holiday period, where there would be plenty of disruption anyway, before starting the game proper in the new year, plus that gives me time to track down the LARP supplement to see if that gives me any further ideas.

Is that too long? Will people lose interest if we don’t start ASAP? I think Nobilis really benefits from time invested in setting it up, even more so than other games, and giving the players a chance to get comfortable with the idea of their characters. I think using a separate thread to discuss the different aspects of setting it up could be fruitful, as it means the history and identity of the character group is more collaborative. I don’t know if that sounds a little too “loose” or democratic compared to most traditional roleplaying, but I don’t mind spending time working on the setting in more detail and rules-wise once people start making suggestions for what they want and once they’ve agreed on a basic sort of “identity” for, say, the chancel (where you live, basically). Anyway, any thoughts on that? Brimming with ideas here but want to make sure I’m not charging off in the wrong direction.
 
 
Blake Head
16:35 / 28.11.06
Personally, I’d rather keep the game text-based, as, in the way I have it arranged it in my head, the extra work put in by the storyteller can get done in a less pressured format before a session, and then quickly referenced or pasted either whenever it’s written up or during a real-time interaction. The other reason, I’ll confess, is that I’m not so familiar with the technology, and while I think it could be really effective, for myself I’m not sure that I’d know how to make a game flow using it. Saying that, that’s my perspective as someone who’s slightly more comfortable with the written word anyway, so if people want to go with it that’s great, I’m happy to step back and let someone else organise that as a format, and just contribute as a player (ie with diminished responsibility!). That’s just my initial thoughts.

And while we’re on that, if there’s anyone out there that, contra everything above, has an amazing and fixed idea for a twelve part story, a chancel, an imperator, and who’s dying to run their own game and has it all mapped out, now is the time to say so. I just want to be involved.

I was considering using the Creation Thread for two reasons. First, everyone reading this has access to it, and access to PM’s, and second, it means there’s a record, in one place, of the game’s progress, which players and viewers can access easily. I don’t know if this is necessary, so suggestions are welcome, it just feels tidy to me. What I had originally considered doing was having a thread in Creation where the players would post in character and describing their actions to the storyteller, who would then (keeping a close i.e. daily eye on the thread) let them know the results of those actions. If these actions needed to be especially private they could PM the storyteller. Obviously this could be quite slow, partly depending on the players, but would work best for the characters following up leads, building up their understanding of the world and getting an idea of what they’re characters actually do.

What I thought could supplement this would be a text based messenger system, where the players meet up at an agreed time… once a week? For 2-3 hours? More? Less? Where the players can interact more immediately and as a group have, y’know, dramatic conflict and stuff. I’m sort of thinking of this in the short style given as examples in the book, for those what have it. It shouldn’t be hard to leave each session with the characters back in the chancel, or otherwise no longer functioning as a group, and to spend time throughout the week finding a reason for them to get back together as a group as well. It also shouldn’t be hard within the setting to explain the absence of any individual person, and the two modes actually benefits the game in that the Nobles wouldn’t normally be constantly in association with one another.

The messenger system would need to be able to handle 3-8 people in conversation where everyone can see the group discussion, and also be able to send a message to the storyteller privately, but that sounds fairly do-able to me. It might help comprehension if each player had an account separate to their private one as well. I’d consider taking an edited transcript of each live session and pasting it into the thread as well, which would be another benefit, to my eyes, of having it be text.

The other main thing is the US / UK time split. If there’s going to be any real-time interaction we need to think about when people will be free. I’m going to be free any evening (UK) and I’m usually fairly happy to stay up until odd hours, but how are other people set up?
 
 
Crux Is This City's Protector.
21:25 / 28.11.06
This all looks fun and fascinating. I'd be interested in playing, if only because I have really, really neat idea for an entity for myself. My own inclination would run rather strongly to the text-only—I rather like, as I imagine many here do, the layer of remove that text and the internet allows. Somewhat related—it would be a good idea to discuss requirements for in-characterness. I have never had any interest in a LARP-style total-in-character-all-the-time kind of deal, and it just gets sillier for me if funny voices come in to play (I remember a time when I was younger, I sat in on a single session of a homegrown game back at camp, where you couldn't say 'human', you had to say 'hoo-mon').

I guess all of the above questions really fall under Implementation. I am inclined to even suggest something as real-time as IRC, with a simultaneous wiki—roughly analogous to a bunch of folks sitting around a table, writing on paper to illustrate their points. It might take a little bit of the heavily constructed stylization of playing it in Creation, but looking at past games played in Creation, they seemed to suffer from people talking over each other, and then from the GM coming back to 2 dozen mutually exclusive plays and having to sort it out. Heck, IRC would even provide a built-in faculty for designating actions as opposed to conversation. I also know there are several chat-like protocols and programs designed specifically for playing RPGs over the internet, with maps and dice rolls and the like.
 
 
Crux Is This City's Protector.
21:28 / 28.11.06
Oh, and I'm US (EST) over here, so, that might pose a difficulty. If I'm the only, or one of the few, I'd bow out to make it easier.
 
 
charrellz
23:46 / 28.11.06
I'm in US central time zone, but your pathetic earth hours mean little to me and I can deal with whatever time is set up.
 
 
Triplets
08:27 / 29.11.06
Ah, Nobilis. It got talked about a lot over on RPGnet a few years ago.

I don't have the book so wouldn't be playing. I have a familiarity with the setting, though. I'm quite interested in how Very Barbelith game would play out.
 
 
Quantum
13:46 / 29.11.06
I think using a separate thread to discuss the different aspects of setting it up could be fruitful, as it means the history and identity of the character group is more collaborative. I don’t know if that sounds a little too “loose” or democratic compared to most traditional roleplaying

Sounds good. I prefer a collaborative style myself, where the motivation is to be part of a good story rather than pwn your chancel-mates. I'm in, but I think low-tech is better than wrangling with unfamiliar software or devices. Text!
The one thing textual based is bad for is action and combat, it might be a good idea to favour a more political or mystery game over something with lots of fighting.
 
 
Quantum
13:47 / 29.11.06
Also, in my mind I keep calling it 'Nobless' which I must stop.
 
 
Laughing
15:16 / 29.11.06
Nobilis is one of my favorite games, and I'd love to play... if I had an Internet connection that I could rely on and a predictable work schedule. (Sigh) I am excited about reading the play-by-plays of a Barbelith-flavored game though.
 
 
Triplets
15:23 / 29.11.06
I keep calling it 'Nobless'

No Billies!
 
 
iconoplast
17:42 / 29.11.06
I'm Pacific Time (Eight (!) Hours off GMT) these days, and hence would like to lean towards some kind of play by post / play by wiki.

However, I'd be happy to read transcripts of you guys playing if this isn't possible.
 
 
Isadore
02:38 / 30.11.06
I'm in Mountain Time, GMT -7 these days. If the game will be done in text posts then it's a good idea to set deadlines.
 
 
iconoplast
20:16 / 30.11.06
Even having found this FAQ http://www.rpglibrary.org/articles/faqs/pbem.php

I still don't know how PbP games *work*. Does anyone have any experience with them?
 
 
Blake Head
19:55 / 01.12.06
Tiny squamous faces of dead men, loathsomely lurking in the shadowy crevices of couches and cushions, collecting in heavy lumps in the darkest bottom of your pockets, hatching their malign plots in their gibbering, jingling voices for who knows what vague and sinister purpose...

After this, the squamous face of the Power of (loose) Change will almost certainly be making an appearance in the game.

I’m guessing we’d pretty much make it up as we went along. Uh… but, no, really, I don’t think we need to be too prescriptive yet, we can start the game and refine what works and throw the remainder away.

As I proposed above, a PbP game would involve the GM setting the scene, allowing the players to discuss the game amongst themselves (in character or otherwise), and making suggestion, proposing actions or questioning the GM, and the GM responding. The downside to this would be that each player action/suggestion is limited by the response time of the GM, and consequently you achieve less in more time, which to a degree I’d suggest can be countered by the players making comprehensive suggestions, eg “I research the murder of the chancel inhabitant by combing the scene for clues and examining the body with Aspect, use a Realm miracle to divine who was present, interview the witnesses, and spend time researching the psychological profiles of serial killers. I’m going to use my Anchor to do the research at her local library, as none of the books in the chancel library date after the Second Age.” Which allows the GM’s response to be a little less bitty.

If something does come up that requires confrontation, dialogue, more back and forth, it will probably be best to freeze that aspect of the game until the next time we could organise getting together on Messenger. I’d hope that we could use this for anything that would take ages to resolve playing by post, and while we could easily leave it flexible, plan around it, or agree to extra sessions, provisionally I thought we would all be able to make time for this once a week, while you’d be able to post in-thread as much as you pleased. As the majority of players are well behind GMT, I think the onus would be on the UK players to be up into the wee hours if they wanted to join in with that aspect of it, so that most people can play at a normal point in the evening (which I’m fine with).

Ok, so can we have a quick headcount again of those who are provisionally up for playing, and who are pretty much ok with the format as suggested (combination of play by post in Creation, scheduled Messenger conversations)? If I keep doing these long explanations I get the feeling everyone, including me, will lose interest. Brevity is the soul of wit and all that.

In the absence of anyone piping up, it looks like I’ll be doing the story, so I’ll make a thread over the weekend for character creation for those that wants to start using it. We can still refine the format here if that’s ok with everyone, and I’d certainly also be open to further suggestions from anyone with experience of running this type of game.
 
 
charrellz
20:42 / 01.12.06
As previously stated, I'm up for it. May I suggest for the real-time stuff we use IRC instead of messenger? In my exerience IRC is a little better at handling mutliple people and as someone previously stated IRC has a built-in action/emoting system which could be utilized in some manner.
 
 
Isadore
09:03 / 02.12.06
I'm in, so long as it doesn't interfere with my RL game...
 
 
iconoplast
07:00 / 06.12.06
Just to avoid being complete threadrot, this post is me raising my hand for the headcount.

That said, check this out.

The idea is simple enough. Everything goes exactly according to the D&D rules, except you append, “metaphorically speaking” to the end of every sentence in the combat chapter. Everyone plays a cultural mover and shaker of the times—someone trying to change the world. Your weapons are the tools you use to enact this change—influence, the media, rhetoric, and so forth. Your hit points are your idealism—your will to enact change upon the world, and deal with all the shit the world throws back at you for doing so. Your armor is all the stuff that helps you deal with this shit—fame (it's harder to hurt you if you're famous), tenure, loved ones, and so on.

...


We did no mechanical conversion whatsoever; everything was mapped onto the D&D rules. We did map some new names onto classes and alignments. Good to Evil became Pacifistic to Violent; Lawful to Chaotic became Hip to Square. The classes, we mapped as follows:

Barbarian—Seeker
Bard—Rocker
Cleric—Mystic
Druid—Tree-hugger
Fighter—Psychonaut
Monk—Lover
Paladin—Demagogue
Ranger—Activist
Rogue—Revolutionary
Sorcerer—Beatnik
Wizard—Intellectual

Other D&D elements, we cast as we came to them. A Paladin's mount? Duh, it's movement she commands. The armor check penalty from your lesbian lover? Well, naturally, she's emotionally awesome, but the world has problems with that sort of thing, negatively influencing your ability to socially climb or tumble unnoticed through a city (“be careful getting coffee, I think these people want to shoot us…”).
 
 
Triplets
10:36 / 06.12.06
iconoplast, that's so awesome.

Everybody, please read the linked thread for some awesome in-play stuff. It's inspiring.

(Zoya's weapon here is “media propogation and left objects,” statted like a lance. Her charge does 16 HP of damage)

There's something beautifully expressionist about swords becoming protest rallies.
 
 
gridley
15:02 / 06.12.06
I would be interested in this. I'm EST (GMT -5).
 
 
Blake Head
02:18 / 07.12.06
Charrellz: I had a bit of a look at IRC, and at first glance I didn’t particularly like the format, and it felt a little bit less private than I’d like. I think Messenger should suffice for anything that I’d planned to implement, and I’m already familiar with it, so (possibly being lazy) I’m going to pencil that in unless there’s a rush of vitriol against it from other people, and of course if it’s not going to seriously impact on your desire to play…

Iconoplast: The metaphorical take on D&D is very cool, and fits very nicely into the delineation in Nobilis between Mythic and Prosaic reality, where the Klan could quite literally be a vicious, aggressive social group and a Hellhound at the same time! Also, the resolution of parodying the rally into submission is really quite a good example of how Nobles would often employ indirect means of turning a rival’s strategy against them, rather than just attempting to eliminate them.

I’ve not had time to read it through yet, but this is probably a good example of a PbP game that, broadly speaking, I’d want to emulate format-wise.

The Character Development thread is now up in Creation. Sorry for the delay, there was an unavoidable (I’m told) IKEA trip which took up the time I had set aside at the weekend. I have, however, been pondering the game, and just started the Incarnations of Immortality series for general inspiration, so primed and eager to hear your ideas.
 
 
grant
03:00 / 08.12.06
You are making me ache. But I doubt I have the time....
 
 
grant
16:10 / 08.12.06
I'm getting a pdf of the rules, it seems.

How vital will Messenger/chat be to this enterprise?

The game seems like it's designed for lapsed Catholics -- these "Nobles" seem a lot like patron saints. And everyone knows those are the best part of Catholicism.
 
  

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