BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Thomas Pynchon: Against the Day

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
Raw Norton
20:42 / 02.01.07
I'd actually be hesitant to identify "threads" in the plot, since there are certain storylines that come to be very central to the book, but which are built around characters who do not even appear until three or four hundred pages in the book (I'm thinking of C.L. here). Ultimately, I'd agree in your assessment that the Chums & Traverse family are the most consistent presences in the book, and, aside from the Powers of Europe and world anarchism, it's the Traverse vendetta that gives the book direction.
 
 
Raw Norton
12:47 / 30.01.07
To whoever's still reading this book: I just came across this helpful wiki, which I wish I'd known about when I was still reading ATD.
 
 
buttergun
14:36 / 30.01.07
That Wiki was up and running before the book was published. I looked forward to using it while reading the book, only to discover that it's pretty useless. I'm sure it will be updated over time, but for now, it's not much help. Lots of spaces with no entries, lots of "????" entries.

Anyway, I am back into the book, on page 500. I found that a one-month break was the charm. Read two other novels during the interim.
 
 
Dusto
14:05 / 14.03.07
So, I finally finished it. I liked it a lot, though it certainly wasn't perfect. He's always been a chronicler of "strange and weird sexual practices," but they felt largely unmotivated in this book (as opposed, to say, Gravity's Rainbow, where there was a palpable sense of all the sex being tied up with the death urge of WWII). I would have liked to have seen more of Lake. And I think in general the plot would have been well served by slightly more focus on any one of the many potential MacGuffins that get thrown out (Iceland spar, bilocation, the Interdikt, Shambala). Three out of four of those have to do with the "Light" theme, so it doesn't seem as if it would have been that hard to tie them all together into a single plot device. But by and large, I enjoyed this book. On a scene by scene level, it wajust a lot of fun. It also had one of his best endings, and I was grateful for every page I read. A little theory: Lake is Frenesi Gates's grandmother, and Lew Basnight is her grandfather. I don't recall whether or not we get much information about the names of Sasha Traverse's immediate ancestors in Vineland, but it fits with the Hollywood connection, Lake's baby dream at the end, and the love that both women have for "bad men."
 
 
Raw Norton
19:38 / 18.03.07
It's really been too long since I've read Vineland to comment on your interesting theory, Dusto. I do have to agree that the end is one of Pynchon's more satisfying ones.
 
 
Janean Patience
10:04 / 02.05.07
My initial reaction to ATD was one of relief that I enjoyed it. It's been a long time since university when I read Gravity's Rainbow and all the others. In the intervening years I'd been exasperated with Mason & Dixon and read V. for the first time (my second-hand paperback has the best cover ever, a photo of a uniformed sewer worker with a rifle in a dark tunnel and a thought-balloon saying something like, "Plenty of alligators... still no sign of V...") but been relatively unimpressed with it. It's a first novel, after all.

So after all this time I feared that maybe I didn't like Pynchon, that it was an affectation from my undergraduate years when I had whole days to do nothing but read weighty shit. It was a delight to forge into ATD and remember that no, Pynchon's just fantastic and always worth the effort. After the 50 pages or so you need for the descriptions to accrete in the subconscious and for the conscious reader to abandon forlorn hopes of a linear plot, I sank back in gratefully.

After 1,085 pages, the settings have stayed with me more than the characters or the labyrinthine plot. If I'd been asked in a focus group to choose an historical period for Pynchon to chronicle, the American West would have been up there. His endlessly-travelling protagonists take you through so much variety, so much detail invented or researched, and the ranges felt solid against the aether. Choosing anarchism as a theme, the forgotten turn-of-the-century battles for the working man, provided a different perspective.

As has been noted the plot hung from a simpler overstructure than we're used to from Pynchon: revenge, three-pronged because of the three sons. Everyone else, apart from Yashmeen and Cyprian later on, is incidental. It'd be nice to say the more occasional characters represent themes in some way but they don't seem to. Makes the book easier to follow, waiting for a Traverse to turn up, but it also makes the reader wonder what exactly the point is of the minor characters like Lew. What purpose they serve apart from a few illuminating scenes. Maybe none.

If there's an overall theme to the book it's bilocation and perhaps the insubstantiality, the thinness of our world with the aether and the heavens and mathematics providing more concrete and proveable realities all around us. The Chums of Chance representing here maybe a fictional reality which intersects with our own. Shamballa's where you find it and light is crucial. I was hoping to find more analysis here, because apart from a few bad-tempered reviews and the reference-spotting of the wiki there's little online.

Who's finished this? What did you think? What's worth rereading and giving more attention to?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:52 / 21.01.08
I was going to read Gravity's Rainbow, but something didn't click, and then I ended up picking up the softcover of Against the Day on sale so I've started that. I'm really only about forty pages into it, give or take, still in the early regions of Lew Basnight's thread. I'm enjoying it quite a lot-- the clarity, so far, is there so I'm finding it relatively easy to follow. I like very much the way it starts in some boy's own adventure dime novel with the Chums of Chance (particularly the scene in the fringes of the fair, Miles displaying some bizarre psychic talent while he and Lindsey traverse the dark expanses) and then progresses into Lew's darker noir tale.
 
 
Dusto
18:25 / 28.01.08
The softcover is nice. I picked it up since I plan to reread the book soon, and it clears up most of the hundreds of typos that marred the hardcover (including at least one instance where the wrong character name was given). It's definitely a shaggy book, but I miss reading it. I look back on my time with it very fondly. It does mostly come together in the end (more than most of Pynchon's books do), but my problem with how it comes together is mostly due to pacing. Characters popping up after hundreds of pages, when it would have been nice to have at least had a paragraph here and there to let us know what they were up to in the mean time. I'm thinking especially of Lake, who we didn't see nearly enough of.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:33 / 28.01.08
Lake...so far, she's displayed some small interest in blasting with a knowing smile, but that's about it.

I'm looking forward to seeing Merle or Lew again, though. Bitter, resentful partings between the elder and younger Traverses don't seem to do it for me.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:59 / 19.02.08
Lost my way for a while, but I picked it up again this morning when I was heading off to do my morning's picket duty, and soaked up a chapter or so. Lew Basnight returns, on the frontier, experimenting with hallucinations that threatened with a single pistol the notion of this book devolving into Fear and Loathing antics, only not. A swell diversion from what amounts to the less interesting Kit Traverse passages. Lew's heading for England in what is perhaps the most compressed encounter and reasoning for a trip ever.

The tarot scene didn't seem like it really amounted to much at the time, but is it meant to be more foreshadowing, I wonder?

Looking for the Chums or Rideout.
 
 
COG
16:23 / 24.08.08
I am 300 pages in and finding it a lot easier to read than GR but not as satisfying somehow. I love the western set stuff but am not too grabbed by the Chums of Chance story. Although the setting is fine, it's the comic tone which I don't like. I know this is a big part of Pynchon as evidenced in some of the songs etc that crop up in his books, but I tend to find it grating.

I know it is always said that he can't do characters but he really can do dialogue. The western stuff is full of great lines which seem authentic to the time as well as having the flavour of coming from an actual person.

Anyway, I only have 3 weeks left on the library loan and 700+ pages to go so back to work. More thoughts as I grow them.
 
 
COG
20:21 / 12.10.08
Finished!

Shit, that took a long time. My whole summer was taken up with this monster and I had to beg the librarian to let me renew it yet again ("I've only got 400 pages to go, pleeease."

Well. It wasn't as good as Gravity's Rainbow. But it was an easier read and there were lots of things to like. My main thought is that he should have written the world's greatest Western novel and kept it under 500 pages. I loved all of that side of it.

The Chums of Chance angle just never gelled for me.

All the Balkan stuff was good too but just was a bit dull when compared to the Western/Mexican bits which, did I mention, I loved! Also the bit's in New York were pretty cool as well. He can conjure up a whole world with just one short paragraph of great prose. Which begs the question, why are his books so long?

So, being a bit thick and not a Pynchon scholar any massive themes or ideas that he was trying to get across just never arrived in my brain. If it takes you 1085 pages to get an idea across (no matter how big) then maybe you should rethink your strategy. On the other hand, I enjoyed most of those 1085 pages for the descriptions, the dialogue and the atmosphere of another time/place.

So, ultimately I'm glad I read it but I have the feeling that I missed something. Maybe I should tackle a shorter one of his next.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:48 / 27.10.08
Back into it again...a bit like drowning in a well. The strange, terrible marriage of Lake Traverse.
 
 
Dusto
19:15 / 28.10.08
He can conjure up a whole world with just one short paragraph of great prose. Which begs the question, why are his books so long?

I think the length is a literary effect in itself: the way it forces the reader to live in the book for such a long period of time. It can't be devoured in a single sitting and then forgotten. I read somewhere Melville describe the technical chapters of Moby Dick as "ballast," and I think the same operation is in effect, here.

So, being a bit thick and not a Pynchon scholar any massive themes or ideas that he was trying to get across just never arrived in my brain. If it takes you 1085 pages to get an idea across (no matter how big) then maybe you should rethink your strategy. On the other hand, I enjoyed most of those 1085 pages for the descriptions, the dialogue and the atmosphere of another time/place.

Again, I don't think the 1085 pages are there out of necessity. The "ideas" are present throughout, and Pynchon is exploring their variations. And I think the ideas are the same ones he's been exploring all along: the promise and the threat of science, the thin line between finding meaning in something and paranoia, the need for small human moments as a way of countering the inhuman needs of industry, the twin allures of anarchy and domination...

If you're planning to try a shorter one, just avoid V. I think it's his worst book by far. Vineland is light but good, and The Crying of Lot 49 is a mini-masterpiece, despite his claims to the contrary.
 
 
Dusto
22:26 / 01.11.08
I think I'll start rereading this tonight.
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply