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David Beckham's best cross?

  
  

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Benny the Ball
07:30 / 26.11.06
Transfer rumours and news being what it is, for the most part speculation, is not the most reliable information provider out there - each paper tries to break the news fastest and first, until a flurry of speculation builds and becomes something akin to playing the odds. That aside, and perhaps topic for another discusion, reports are coming out that LA Galaxy, one of the better supported MLS soccer teams (football to you and I) have been green-lit to break their wage ceiling in order to intice Beck's off the Real bench and onto the turf at the Home Depot Centre. The hope, apart from getting a still very talented footballer to compliment Landon Donovan and provide some ammo for the US poster-boy forward, is that having such a name will encourage support. New York Cosmos, anyone?

Okay, so, should a player be drafted in to an already well supported team in his twilight years in order to boost attendences? Should Beckham go west? Will the US ever get football?

I think that he should go. I think that, as McClaren seems to think that by freezing him out of the team he's being somehow radical, internationally everyone knows he is there, so moving to a club to get recognised is neither here nor there. I think that coming back the UK would be a mistake, he'd never do enough to make people think that he isn't past his best, and so why not serve as some kind of ambassidor for the game and get interest lifted somewhere else? Also, I think, the inate snobbery that England holds dear about stuff like this ('he's only doing for the money' they'll cry - forgetting that Beckham, as a player has always recognised his weaknesses, perheps over estimated his strengths, but is a very dedicated individual - training beyond training, and always wanting to play - why not get paid to actually play the game he loves?) and perhaps we should stop, and take stock of the fact that England football isn't that great at the moment, and maybe it needs something new, new eyes viewing it, a new drive of passion to rekindle the love of the game and not the love of the trappings and money of the game.

Anyway, what do others think?
 
 
Janean Patience
11:37 / 28.11.06
Beckham to LA is the obvious move to the extent where it feels inevitable. He's got his soccer school there, she might find more opportunities in the entertainment business, and they could go double-dating with Scary Spice and Eddie Murphy.

But despite the tabloid acceptance of the idea, I'd be sad to see him go. He'd be lost to the England team forever - given the consensus against him in the press, there's no way any England manager would dare call him up when he's playing in a league we usually characterise as piss-poor. Plus there's the time difference, which is only going to make popping back to Wembley for the odd friendly harder...

This would, I think, influence him to stay in Europe. He's not doing particularly well with a notoriously fickle club and he's been thrown out of the England squad. There's no doubt that England meant a lot to him and he'd love to play for them again. Steve McClaren is looking extremely shaky as England manager. So if I were Beckham, I'd either stay at Madrid and wait for the next regime change or look for another European club, waiting for the collapse of the national team, the resignation of McClaren, and an opportunity to play for my country again...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:38 / 28.11.06
But MacLaren won't go until at the very least the end of qualification, and probably, assuming qualification is scraped, the World Cup, although he will at that point quite possibly bottle it and put Beckham back in anyway. So, best case scenario has a new manager coming in when Beckham will be - 32? 33? Getting towards the end of an international career, in any case.

Personally, I'd be curious about the wisdom of breaking the salary cap for Beckham anyway - MLS may not be full of banner names at present, but it's sustainable. Getting Beckham in smacks a bit of the Cosmos in NASL, as John says - a league that was full of banner names, but not sustainable. Give it a year or so, and I have a feeling Beckham may need the LA Galaxy more than the LA Galaxy needs Beckham...

Moving to LA would almost certainly be the end of Beckham's international career - however, I think that it's pretty much over anyway, barring perhaps a few more honorary caps. He kind of gets a raw deal here, since in some ways he was more symptom than cause; it wasn't his fault that an inspiration-free England relied on his crosses and free kicks. However, I can't help but feel that a right winger rather than a place-kicker would be more useful in the longer term for the development of the England squad.

Having said which, recent performance seem to argue for the recall not only of Beckham but of Kenny Samson, so what do I know?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
14:55 / 28.11.06
Give it a year or so, and I have a feeling Beckham may need the LA Galaxy more than the LA Galaxy needs Beckham...

Really? I can't name one MLS player, and I'm a sports junkie. They get no ESPN coverage, no major TV deals, and most sports fans in the USA consider MLS a laughingstock on par with the WNBA. The Galaxy may be the league's attendance leader, but as this article says, those figures are misleading:

The Galaxy is announcing another sellout at The Home Depot Center in Carson, its soccer-specific stadium regarded as the sport's jewel in this country. There are entire sections of empty seats in the upper deck. Every third or fourth seat in the sideline sections is unoccupied. The suites are half full. The grassy slope at the stadium's east end is deserted.

27,000. A sellout.

The club's Web site references The Home Depot Center as a “27,000-seat, state-of-the-art soccer stadium,” but the actual seating capacity remains a mystery on par with the Loch Ness monster, a number so closely guarded that most employees don't know it. The state fire marshal's office, after checking its records twice, insists the “fixed seating capacity” is 20,631. A hand count by a reporter one afternoon came up with about 24,500.

The 27,000, it turns out, comes from the contract with Cal State University-Dominguez Hills, on whose land the HDC sits. It is the maximum number of people allowed in the facility for weekend events and thus becomes the maximum crowd the Galaxy can announce.

As I understand it, David Beckham is a superstar in Europe. Over here, he's "that soccer guy that they made that movie about." You might be surprised at the overwhelming apathy this would generate in the States.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:42 / 28.11.06
They get no ESPN coverage, no major TV deals, and most sports fans in the USA consider MLS a laughingstock on par with the WNBA.

You mean most sports fans, or most white sports fans in the USA? I don't think there's any doubt that MLS is not one of the major world football leagues, or that football is not one of the major sports followed by white Americans. And, further, that Latino Americans are often more interested in teams from their or their parents or grandparents' country of origin than, say the LA Galaxy.

However, I think you're right that most white American sports fans would have limited interest in David Beckham. It might be of far greater interest to the many, many citizens of the US who understand football and have some knowledge of the European game - there are, after all, a lot of English people and Spanish-speaking people in Los Angeles. However, personally I wouldn't break the wage structure to get him, which would mean not getting him, as he can earn far, far more as a substitute at Real or as yet another has-been trophy signing at Newcastle United, or in fact as a player at any other major club in Europe, than at the LA Galaxy.

However, football at a high level is a more demanding and physical sport than, say, baseball. Beckham is getting towards retirement age - it's very rare for a player at the highest level to be able to sustain a first-team place beyond about 34, especially if they rely on pace (which Beckham does not) or endurance and energy (which he does). In the not too distant future, his age and his wage demands will start to price him out of the market in Europe, where there are a number of better right-sided midfielders. At which point he could retire, start dropping down the levels, move to Qatar for a (totally unnecessary) final payday, as Marcel Desailly did, or strike out for the US, to try to reinvent himself as a minor celebrity on the US scene (he's already a chum of Tom Cruise's) while he can still be described as a sportsman rather than an ex-sportsman. At which point he would need a club like the LA Galaxy more than the LA Galaxy would need him. Quod erat demonstrandum, really.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
19:39 / 28.11.06
You mean most sports fans, or most white sports fans in the USA?

How about most white, Asian, African-American and Caribbean sports fans in the USA? You only mentioned Latinos, which is a little disingenuous.

However, football at a high level is a more demanding and physical sport than, say, baseball. Beckham is getting towards retirement age - it's very rare for a player at the highest level to be able to sustain a first-team place beyond about 34, especially if they rely on pace (which Beckham does not) or endurance and energy (which he does).

This makes me think immediately of Shaquille O'Neal. A monster star who has lost a couple of steps and can't carry his team the way he used to be able to. I, personally, would hate to see Shaq go to some other country to continue his career and drum up interest in basketball. Not as soul-crushingly awful as Jordan playing baseball, but it would be a shame. Beckham has massive funds, I would imagine, so why trot out his diminishing talents to a new market who don't really care what a hotshot he was ten years ago?

strike out for the US, to try to reinvent himself as a minor celebrity on the US scene (he's already a chum of Tom Cruise's) while he can still be described as a sportsman rather than an ex-sportsman.

That seems like a wholly implausible scenario to me. Especially with Cruise in the mix.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:57 / 28.11.06
How about most white, Asian, African-American and Caribbean sports fans in the USA? You only mentioned Latinos, which is a little disingenuous.

Could you explain precisely how this is disingenuous? Thanks.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:50 / 28.11.06
For example, I'm not sure what you mean by "Asian", but Japan and South Korea recently hosted a World Cup finals, and one in which the South Korean team was very successful and received with tremendous patriotic fervour. Not to mention, of course, that David Beckham is a marketing phenomenon in South-East Asia. Matches between Kolkata's top club sides regularly pack out the 120,000-seat Salt Lake Stadium. Various Caribbean Islands have appeared in the World Cup finals recently, and have caused great excitement among their inhabitants and expats in doing so.

So, my intention was not to be disingenuous. In particular, it seems a bit odd to call me disingenuous, considering that the largest single population group in Los Angeles at the time of the next national census is expected to be Latino people, and not, say, Caribbean people. However, I'm sure you know what you mean.
 
 
Benny the Ball
03:35 / 29.11.06
"Really? I can't name one MLS player, and I'm a sports junkie"

Freddy Adu? Landon Donovan?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:38 / 29.11.06
Well, I think that's perfectly credible - if you are an American sports nut, it's possible that you may not know very much about non-American sports, America having developed some pretty idiosyncratic sports over the years. However, there are a lot of people in America, either citizens or residents with other nationalities, who are not necessarily interested in baseball, basketball or American football to the exclusion of other less indigenous sports. I seem to recall that you wooed Mrs. the Ball in Los Angeles, Benny, so you may be able to back me up on the idea that there is a large European and a massively larger Latino community in the city, both of whom may contain more football fans than Jake's sports nut community, and who might be interested in seeing probably the world's most famous footballer turning out for their local MLS team.
 
 
Benny the Ball
10:00 / 29.11.06
LA Galaxy has one of the strongest followings in the MLS, thanks in large part to its sizable latino population - the games that I've been to there have seen healthy sized crowds almost exclusively from this catchment. I'd say there would probably be more excitement if a player like Marquez moved there, but as Beckham has been part of a spanish team for the last 3-4 years, and as La Liga gets quite a lot of coverage, as does the Premiership, then Beckham's arrival would certainly be welcomed - perhaps not if it skewered the wage structure. Might even encourage C5 to put on a few games at a better time than 4 in the morning over here...
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
13:12 / 29.11.06
It's true that I'm speaking from a New England perspective, where baseball rules all and everything else is something to watch in the offseason. That said...

Haus, I said you were being disingenuous because you said this:

You mean most sports fans, or most white sports fans in the USA?

You didn't mention LA fans specifically, you referred to US sports fans across the board. Also, I was specifically addressing MLS, not the World Cup, which, I'm sure you'll agree, is a very different animal.

"Really? I can't name one MLS player, and I'm a sports junkie"

Freddy Adu? Landon Donovan?

I've heard of Freddy Adu, but I had no idea he was in MLS. The only thing I know about him is that he was in that commercial with Pele. I've never in my life heard of Landon Donovan.

However, there are a lot of people in America, either citizens or residents with other nationalities, who are not necessarily interested in baseball, basketball or American football to the exclusion of other less indigenous sports.

That's very true, but I would think that their national teams would hold more interest no matter what happened with MLS. I'm sure Beckham could sell some tickets in LA, I'm not disputing that, but it's not going to put the Galaxy in the same stratosphere with the Lakers or even the abysmally managed Dodgers (the systematic shitting on the Dodgers name by Rupert Murdoch and now McCourt and DePodesta could be a thread of it's own). I think the best-case scenario would be a healthy regional interest, similar to a mid-level college program. While it would be good for the Galaxy in the short-term, it doesn't really help MLS become a legitimate US sports league.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:25 / 29.11.06
Sorry, Jake, I still don't get it. In what sense, exactly, was I being disingenuous? Not "what did I do that was disingenuous?", but "how does what I did fit a definition of 'disingenuous'?".

The World Cup and MLS are both experiences where footballers are watched by spectators. To suggest otherwise, to cover up not having known that Beckham is a major celebrity outside Europe in places where football is a focus of national interest - that is, much of the world, including Asia and the Caribbean, actually is disingenuous, for future reference.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
13:41 / 29.11.06
Well, what I thought was disingenuous was implying that only white people in the US don't care about soccer. Which is exactly what you did when you said "You mean most sports fans, or most white sports fans in the USA?"

And how in the world did I "cover up" that Beckham was widely popular? I compared him to Shaquille fucking O'Neal, Haus. Probably the most popular active athlete in American sports, period. What are you talking about?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
13:49 / 29.11.06
The World Cup and MLS are both experiences where footballers are watched by spectators.

No kidding. One is watched by a lot of people all over the world and makes tons of money. The other is watched by next to no one and makes next to nothing. Are you saying that I couldn't argue that an independent minor-league baseball team was a crap setup without arguing that the Boston Red Sox are also a crap setup, because they both play the same game in front of spectators?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:20 / 29.11.06
What are you talking about?

Well, I'm talking about:

As I understand it, David Beckham is a superstar in Europe.

Followed by:

How about most white, Asian, African-American and Caribbean sports fans in the USA?

Which makes it pretty clear that you don't actually know very much about who is interested in football, or who might have heard of David Beckham. So, when you say:

And how in the world did I "cover up" that Beckham was widely popular?

You have failed to read what I said, which was that you were covering up for not having known that David Beckham was widely popular.

You were quite right that the distinction should be between [Americans who have roots in America deep enough to sit through American sport] and [other], but whereas I erred by using "white" rather than something more like "indigenous", you erred by not knowing that David Beckham is known outside Europe. The difference being that you decided to represent that as disingenuous, rather than, say, ingenuous. This is probably just not knowing what the words mean, but I'd rather you were a little more careful in future.

The Shaq comparison is quite useful, in that you say that, based on the sum total of your understanding of David Beckham, you wouldn't want to see Shaquille O'Neal go to another country to popularise basketball, so why would Beckham want to go to another country to popularise football? This is kind of the point - you're making statements about David Beckham based on an intimate knowledge of... Shaquille O'Neal.

Regarding the Red Sox - well, I'm afraid I'm not very up on the minutiae of husky men in pyjamas playing rounders, and thus will not, in my ignorance, make declarative statements about the game. However, since we are talking about David Beckham joining the LA Galaxy, then we would presumably want to think what might happen if Mark McGwire or Bobby McBaseballhands or one of the other celebrities of the beautiful game were to join your notional independent minor-league baseball league team, yes?

Or, to drag it back to football, what impact one of the most famous players in the game of football joining a team in a country in which football was not a major sport would have. You actually engaged with that question above:

I'm sure Beckham could sell some tickets in LA, I'm not disputing that, but it's not going to put the Galaxy in the same stratosphere with the Lakers or even the abysmally managed Dodgers (the systematic shitting on the Dodgers name by Rupert Murdoch and now McCourt and DePodesta could be a thread of it's own). I think the best-case scenario would be a healthy regional interest, similar to a mid-level college program. While it would be good for the Galaxy in the short-term, it doesn't really help MLS become a legitimate US sports league.

On this we probably largely agree, which is why I would not say that breaking open the salary cap just to get Beckham would be a good idea. However, if you look at the article you originally cited, you might notice that the at-the-time Metrostars got a far larger gate when playing as part of a double bill with England. Some of the extra tens of thousands of spectators who came to that match would not be interested in watching an MLS match, even if it featured the former captain of England. However, it seems a reasonable supposition that some would. If you are using as the criterion for a successful impact of David Beckham to a thirteen-year-old league whether or not their games will suddenly attract as many people as the Philadelphia Razorbacks playing at Philadelphia's famous Giants Stadium, or some other elite representatives of the idiosyncratic sports of America then, yes, the signing of Beckham would be pointless, and really they may as well pack up now and go home. However, I don't think, personally, that this is the case. Football is likely to be a bit challenging for mass audiences used to regular breaks in play and enormous scores, but a connoisseur audience doesn't seem at all like a bad thing, which brings us back to the current status of the league as largely devoid of banner names but sustainable, and the risk of reversing those conditions. Which is why I would not personally recommend breaking the salary cap to sign Beckham, which in practical terms means not signing Beckham, but can understand the thinking behind signing or seeking to sign Beckham.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
16:28 / 29.11.06
You have failed to read what I said, which was that you were covering up for not having known that David Beckham was widely popular.

Yes, I scrambled to cover up the fact that I called him a superstar. In my, and many others' sports vocabulary, only "legend" trumps "superstar," and you have to be retired to earn that cliched title.

you erred by not knowing that David Beckham is known outside Europe.

I never said that. Even I know who he is, so he's clearly known outside of Europe. He's an English soccer superstar. I would be willing to bet that the majority of American sports fans know just about that much as well.

You were quite right that the distinction should be between [Americans who have roots in America deep enough to sit through American sport] and [other]

Oh, yes, Haus, because you have to be generations deep here to like American sports. That's why baseball is the most popular sport in the Caribbean and Japan, as well as the highest-attended sport in the US.

but whereas I erred by using "white" rather than something more like "indigenous", you erred by not knowing that David Beckham is known outside Europe.

Again, I didn't. I just said that he wasn't going to make an appreciable difference in soccer's popularity in the US, because most people in the states, while they know his name, nationality and sport, could care less about watching him play.

The difference being that you decided to represent that as disingenuous, rather than, say, ingenuous.

"That" being what? My not giving Beckham the glory he deserves, or you inferring that only white people in the US ignore soccer? I honestly think that you're overrating the popularity of soccer in the states. People have been saying that it's going to blow up and get huge since the 80's, but it never happens. The most popular sport to play in my high school was soccer, but the teenagers who kicked ass on the field in the early 90's have grown into men and women who wear Sox caps and are talking about Tom Brady and Daisuke Matsuzaka, not David Beckham or the New England Revolution.

The Shaq comparison is quite useful, in that you say that, based on the sum total of your understanding of David Beckham, you wouldn't want to see Shaquille O'Neal go to another country to popularise basketball, so why would Beckham want to go to another country to popularise football? This is kind of the point - you're making statements about David Beckham based on an intimate knowledge of... Shaquille O'Neal.

Point taken. I was just using Shaq as an example of a player of Beckham's stature, in a similar phase of his career.

Regarding the Red Sox - well, I'm afraid I'm not very up on the minutiae of husky men in pyjamas playing rounders, and thus will not, in my ignorance, make declarative statements about the game.

Now you're just trying to push my buttons! I'll argue the absolute supremacy of baseball over everything else in the universe at a later date.

However, since we are talking about David Beckham joining the LA Galaxy, then we would presumably want to think what might happen if Mark McGwire or Bobby McBaseballhands or one of the other celebrities of the beautiful game were to join your notional independent minor-league baseball league team, yes?

You mean like when Rickey Henderson (All-time stolen base leader and a first-ballot Hall of Famer by anyone's standards-far better player than McGwire, who's a pariah. Also, he was crazy as fuck and used to talk about himself in the third person. I would go see him play any day!) joined the San Diego Surf Dawgs? They won a championship, but they're still a crappy indy team, and they only came in third in attendance that year despite him.

the at-the-time Metrostars got a far larger gate when playing as part of a double bill with England.

That really isn't a good sign for MLS. It just makes them look bush-league, kind of like when a small pro wrestling promotion brings in a superstar for a one-time-only gig. Kind of makes the homegrown talent look shitty.

Some of the extra tens of thousands of spectators who came to that match would not be interested in watching an MLS match, even if it featured the former captain of England. However, it seems a reasonable supposition that some would. If you are using as the criterion for a successful impact of David Beckham to a thirteen-year-old league whether or not their games will suddenly attract as many people as the Philadelphia Razorbacks playing at Philadelphia's famous Giants Stadium, or some other elite representatives of the idiosyncratic sports of America then, yes, the signing of Beckham would be pointless, and really they may as well pack up now and go home.

The who in the where? Seriously, though, signing Beckham reeks of a short-term publicity stunt, not a genuine effort to increase the quality and popularity of MLS. I'm sure it would increase the gate for the Galaxy, but it's not going to help the league become a national, ESPN-level player, which should be their goal as a league.


Football is likely to be a bit challenging for mass audiences used to regular breaks in play and enormous scores, but a connoisseur audience doesn't seem at all like a bad thing

It is to the advertisers. Where's the room for the massive number of commercials needed to finance a major sports league if there's only one break in the game? You would have to either cut away from the action or change the fundamental nature of the game to allow for more ad breaks. Both of those solutions would be anathema to the connosoisseur audience.

which brings us back to the current status of the league as largely devoid of banner names but sustainable, and the risk of reversing those conditions. Which is why I would not personally recommend breaking the salary cap to sign Beckham, which in practical terms means not signing Beckham, but can understand the thinking behind signing or seeking to sign Beckham.

We do agree here, but, as MLS is a US league, I guarantee that they will try to reach beyond their current level of popularity, which seems to be somewhere between AAA baseball and the NHL. Not a lot of gold in them thar hills. I'd love to see them succeed, even though I'm not really into soccer. Anything but NASCAR, for crying out loud.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:36 / 29.11.06
"That" being what? My not giving Beckham the glory he deserves, or you inferring that only white people in the US ignore soccer?

The latter, roughly, which error I have freely admitted. However, just as you are confusing "infer" and "imply", I think you have confused "ingenuous" with "disingenuous". Question here: did you intend to call me a liar? If yes, then your word usage was correct, and I'm not really very interested in continuing this conversation. If no, then your word usage was incorrect, but on the plus side all we have to do is establish that and then move on.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
16:43 / 29.11.06
No, no, definitely not. I just thought you were wrong. Let's move on, for sure.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:53 / 29.11.06
Ah, right - yes, in that case, you were dead right - I was wrong, or at least if I knew what I meant to say I got it utterly wrong when I tried to say it. Huggles!

Meanwhile, back at the MLS, it seems that ESPN has started paying rights fees and has undertaken to push MLS harder - according to the spin, this is a response to customer demand - more details here. I'm not familiar with ESPN's programming, and I imagine that much of this wiill end up on ESPN 2, which I assume is not as high-profile or as watched as ESPN proper. However.

The break issue is an interesting one - we cope, but then we have far fewer ad breaks that the US - I'm not sure how other countries cope - split screen? Blipverts? I suppose one could introduce time-outs for taking on water, say, which would be quite sensible in places like Houston and Los Angeles.

Speaking of Los Angeles - and this does kind of support your bush league idea - Chivas, the spun-off franchise of Chivas Guadalajara, can apparently put vast numbers of bums on seats in invitational matches with Chivas Guadalajara appearing as guests. Which is back to how to move soccer into likes-Amnerican-sports areas - there are probably more Manchester United fans in Los Angeles, and certainly more Chivas Guadalajara fans, than there are Los Angeles Galaxy fans. Which is _also_ a shame, because it means that the natural model - pay per view - won't work. Is ESPN 2 a fewer-adverts subscription channel, like HBO, possibly? Lower audiences, but less pressure from advertisers?

The youth of the league means that you don't get the same commitment to the clubs, I imagine - Manchester United can have their own TV channel, but who would subscribe to LAGTV?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:54 / 29.11.06
Actually, answering my own question - probably obsessive Manchester United fans in Santa Monica, if Beckham joined. Nonetheless, not exactly a mass market.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
17:51 / 29.11.06
Huggles back atcha.

Interesting article- It sounds like ESPN is willing to put some money into it. I wouldn't get too excited just yet, though. ESPN2 is a major basic-cable station, but it tends to show a lot of poker, billiards, darts and other bottom-of-the-barrel "sports." The increased SportsCenter coverage will be key, as well as the hosts on Pardon The Interruption, ESPN's most popular and influential talk show, giving it a little air time.

The thing that is most troublesome to me is that they're planning on expanding their league to sixteen teams. That could be an enormous mistake. In fact, in my opinion, that's what killed hockey. The NHL was so determined to expand to 30 teams to keep up with the NFL,MLB and NBA that they overexpanded into areas where there was no interest in hockey. Who in their right mind would put a hockey team in Nashville, Tennessee, right in the heart of Southern meathead college football territory? Soccer doesn't have the climate issues that hockey has, but, on the other hand, hockey never had to compete with well-established teams from other continents for fans. I hope they don't shoot themselves in the collective foot by trying to get too big, too soon.

Another obstacle is that ESPN is going to start putting some serious time and money into (*shudder*) NASCAR next year as well, and that's going to make MLS's piece of the programming pie that much smaller. One of the things I always liked about ESPN was that they always treated NASCAR with the contempt it so richly deserves. NASCAR on ESPN was like a leper colony, strictly segregated in a tiny block of SportsCenter that none of the proper sports had to go near. Now I fear for us all.

Speaking of Los Angeles - and this does kind of support your bush league idea - Chivas, the spun-off franchise of Chivas Guadalajara, can apparently put vast numbers of bums on seats in invitational matches with Chivas Guadalajara appearing as guests. Which is back to how to move soccer into likes-Amnerican-sports areas - there are probably more Manchester United fans in Los Angeles, and certainly more Chivas Guadalajara fans, than there are Los Angeles Galaxy fans.

That's the biggest problem, right there. Many American soccer fans are immigrants or the children of immigrants, and they come in with allegiances to bigger, better financed and more skilled teams that play on a higher level. With baseball, as another example of a sport with a global following, the US teams have the best players and compete at the highest level, so if someone came over from the Dominican Republic, they would be familiar with many dozens of players that had made the jump to the Majors, and would recognize a steady stream of Dominican imports as they made their rookie debuts. It would be a much more seamless transition as a fan. With MLS, you would have to settle for an inferior standard of play, and with digital cable and satellite, why bother? I run across international soccer all the time on the high-numbered sports channels, so it's very available, and big games get the PPV treatment.

Is ESPN 2 a fewer-adverts subscription channel, like HBO, possibly? Lower audiences, but less pressure from advertisers?

ESPN2 has the same amount of commercials as any other cable channel, but the price for the ads is much lower, so you'll see some seriously shady stuff being advertised, especially at night. The split-screen ad idea is probably the best, but I don't know if advertisers would go for it. Sports is the one area where TiVo/DVR hasn't really mattered, because most fans like to see games live. I think they'd be hard-pressed to give up that captive audience.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:58 / 30.11.06
Ye - the availability of higher-quality leagues is definitely a problem - does anyone know what ticket prices are like in MLS? In the UK, it's not uncommon for people to go to see a smaller team if they are a long way geographically from their home team - although rising prices makes this less likely (£20 to see QPR playing basically awful football? Stroll on...). Perhaps if you can't see Chivas Guadalajara you'll settle foor Chivas USA - but then again, clubs with a more scattered fanbase might find this trickier.

The more I read about this, the more interested I am by the MLS model. At first, I assumed that the LA Galaxy were talking about unilaterally breaking the wage structure - but of course they _can't_, because actually all the players are employees of the MLS, in that oddly communist way American sports have. So, what is actually happening is that in the 2007 season each club will have a designated player slot (although this can be traded - the New York Red Bulls have two, now, and Chivas USA have none, having swapped one of them for a player) who can be paid over $400,000, with the rest of the salary being picked up by the owner of the team - so, a Beckham would count for $400,000 of the total allowable salary for the team, but might have an actual salary closer to his current $10 million or so, with the balance being paid directly by whoever owns the Galaxy. What happens if the owner goes bankrupt or sells the club I don't know, but I imagine one would insure the contract or something.

So, perhaps the initial worries about sustainability would not be so great, as the added expense would come from the wealthy owners (and, let's face it, compared to a baseball player's salary $10 million a year is probably pretty manageable).

The other thing is that having a single high-quality player might not only improve the quality of the games - since even park football would be worth watching with Pele on one side and Beckenbauer on the other - but also the quality of the players. As a comparison, English football was at its most dominant in the 1980s, with Liverpool regularly there or thereabouts in European competition. However, after English clubs were banned from Europe, the game basically stopped progressing, and upon their return English teams were, with a few notable exceptions, minced. One of the ways this situation was improved was the purchase of some elite players from Europe, who helped their teammates to raise the skill levels of their games, taught about how European teams played and also demonstrated the commitment to professionalism that was somewhat lacking in the English game. All right, Gianluca Vialli smoked, but at least he never drank till he wet the bed. I'm just saying.

There's a balance there, definitely - some of your imports will fail (Tomas Brolin), and others will be coming to the end of their careers (Ruud Gullit, Bolton Wanderers passim), but others will show players and viewers things that they hadn't seen before (Denis Bergkamp, Gianfranco Zola). It's always a bit of a gamble - Jaime Moreno, one of the most celebrated players in MLS, was a flop at Middlesbrough - but this model seems more interesting than a model where the LA Galaxy takes on the mantle of the New York Cosmos...
 
 
Benny the Ball
14:57 / 30.11.06
Matches are about $20-$30 I seem to remember, although I'm sure you can get much cheaper tickets, probably in the literal ball park or cinema seat price range ($8-$15).
As for coverage and commercials, I seem to remember watching a game on ESPN 2, where they threw in a quick commercial if the ball went out for a goal kick and the ball needed to be retrieved (probably operating on the single rather than multiple ball system that was once touted as a way of slowing down games so that home teams could control the pace more effectively).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:35 / 30.11.06
Coincidentally, an article in the Guardian today about how one might improve the fortunes of MLS - for the writer's money, Beckham isn't the answer, and I can relate to that, in the specific case of Beckham, at least - he just isn't that exciting or attractive a player these days - still-got-some-pace, go-past-people, chip-the-goalie-from-the-halfway-line young Beckham would have been an altogether more attractive proposition. Perhaps Teves or Mascherano would be better fits...

Of his solutions, the first two feel a bit gimmicky. The thought of US-Mexican league is quite interesting, mind, although it might reduce the US sides to the status of Wimbledons - challenging opponents, but never seriously likely to win the league, and reliant on other teams' fans to swell their gates. Your World Series in Hockey involves canada, doesn't it? And Toronto will have a team in MLS next season, so there is a limited precedent...
 
 
Tsuga
18:39 / 30.11.06
One thing to point out about soccer in America, it will almost certainly become more popular get better over time, and likely in a relatively short time. When I was a kid in the south, most kids (and adults) had no idea what soccer even was. I think about 25 years ago it started showing up more commonly in schools, but now just about every school has a team, from grade school to college; there are club teams at all levels, better coaching, and while the nascent pro league is not breaking the light fantastic or anything, it is slowly gaining ground (I think). The quality is certainly getting better, though they probably would get their asses handed to them if they were playing with Mexican Liga de Futbol.

But, anyway. I think it is relevant that soccer has steadily become more popular here, especially among the youth, and they say the youth are our future, so... yeah. I think it's just taking a while for the infrastructure to develop more beyond shool play.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
13:41 / 01.12.06
So, what is actually happening is that in the 2007 season each club will have a designated player slot (although this can be traded - the New York Red Bulls have two, now, and Chivas USA have none, having swapped one of them for a player) who can be paid over $400,000, with the rest of the salary being picked up by the owner of the team

I've never heard of anything like this "superstar slot," but it's a very interesting concept. It would seem exist to allow teams to have a big-name draw without having to skimp on supporting players while keeping the playing field relatively even across the league. I'm not sure about being able to trade slots, though. An inept GM could fuck his team over for all time by trading away that slot. I do find it very unsurprising and amusing that it's New York that has two, though. Not to mention the disgusting sponsored name of the team.

compared to a baseball player's salary $10 million a year

$10 mil a year is far above the average for a baseball player's salary. Players who are very good but not big names make about that. The Torii Hunters and Derek Lowes of the world.

The other thing is that having a single high-quality player might not only improve the quality of the games - since even park football would be worth watching with Pele on one side and Beckenbauer on the other - but also the quality of the players.

Good point. Athletes will often "play up" to a higher standard if a truly great player is introduced into the equation, but it also depends on the player. A total shithead will just create resentment among the lesser players.

In the article you linked to, the most interesting idea put forth was giving the women's national team an MLS franchise. Given that the most popular soccer player in US history is Mia Hamm, that idea might have legs. Or, it might have had legs eight years ago, when she still played. Right now, Mrs. Garciaparra is married to my favorite baseball player ever and expecting twins. Plus, she's way too old to play competitively these days, even if she was able. I question whether people would turn out to see a women's team that didn't feature her. Maybe this would be an idea to trot out if a new transcendent women's player emerges in the next Olympics or what-have-you.

The author also mentioned having the season kick off with a game versus the College All-Star team, citing the fact that the NFL used to do this. The fact that he mentioned that and recommended it for soccer shows that he's clueless when it comes to American football. The reason the NFL used to do that is because college football (for God knows what reason) has been massively popular in the Midwest and South for basically forever, and the NFL needed to win over those markets to succeed. College soccer has no such fanbase, and thus has nothing to offer MLS.

Your World Series in Hockey involves canada, doesn't it? And Toronto will have a team in MLS next season, so there is a limited precedent...

Yeah, there are many NHL teams from Canada. At least five, probably more. The NHL is far, far more popular in Canada than in the states. The NBA has a Toronto team, the Raptors, and baseball has the Toronto Blue Jays and used to have the perennially awful Montreal Expos, who moved and became the perennially awful Washington Nationals. So, there is definitely a precedent.

One thing to point out about soccer in America, it will almost certainly become more popular get better over time, and likely in a relatively short time.

That's what I was talking about a little earlier. People have been saying this since at least the mid-eighties, and it never happens. The best and most popular team in my high school was the soccer team, but no one I keep in touch with carried their interest beyond that. They all root for the Sox, Pats and Celts. No one that I know has ever seen a New England Revolution game.
 
 
astrojax69
22:51 / 21.12.06
the a-league (australia's new non-ethnic based competition) has a 'marquee player' concept, where one player can be outside the salary cap. excellent concept, brought dwight yorke to sydney for the first year, romario as a guest player in adelaide at the moment (sadly, hasn't netted his elusive 1,000th goal) and so on.

a great way to get a bit of dazzle with a bit of real talent [dwight did wonders for sydney, who won the inaugural trophy] and a wonder it hasn't been picked up in many 'lesser' leagues...

as for wolf's comment on becks: He'd be lost to the England team forever...

is he really an intergral part now? would you, as manager pick him? really? he gets little match time, he's not done much for the national side for a couple years and there are a plethora of youngsters waiting to take the world by storm (if only they can get a gaffer knows what to do with the talent on offer)


as for jake's comment, he has never heard of landon donovan; did you not watch any of the past couple world cups? the usa got to the 1/4 finals in asia, and had a group of death last outing. donovan has been a key player for the side in the last decade.


me? i rekkun becks will go to la, as others have mooted above. be a good thing too. let real madrid get on with choosing players who can contribute to them winning something again.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
23:17 / 21.12.06
Astrojax- Still never heard of him. I mean, I'm sure I've heard his name on PTI or Sportscenter, but I don't remember. The thing about the World Cup is that it happens right square in the middle of baseball season and the NBA Finals. I especially had no time for it last year, because the 2006 Finals were possibly the best postseason of any sport I've seen, ever.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:35 / 22.12.06
A total shithead will just create resentment among the lesser players.

Heard that, absolutely. I believe that Lothar Matthaus, one of the greatest players in the history of German football, wen to play for the New York/New Jersey Metrostars, and managed to alienate everyone - this not helped by the fact that he had slowed up considerably by then. Compare that with the comparative affection in which the more modestly talented Richard Gough is held...

Beckham got a start in Real Madrid's last game, in which a second-string team were beaten by Recreativo, the season's surprise-package promotion team, 3-0. By all accounts, it was pretty embarrassing all round.
 
 
Janean Patience
08:08 / 22.12.06
Astrojax: is he really an intergral part now? would you, as manager pick him? really? he gets little match time, he's not done much for the national side for a couple years

Well, who has? Rooney's not been consistent, Lampard's been dreadful, Gerrard hasn't been able to pull the team together... our defence are good, but the rest of the team haven't remotely been able to reproduce their club form. Backham's one of the few who's actually contributed something during England games, even if his contribution is just the same crosses and free-kicks that the opposition know to expect. We scored six goals in the World Cup and Beckham was responsible, directly and indirectly, for half of them. He appears to have been the scapegoat for a team that didn't perform, and which are performing just as badly without him.

I'd pick him. But I don't really know anything about football. Are Real Madrid flourishing in his absence?
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:22 / 26.12.06
Wolf - not really as much as they should do or as much as the fans expect them to - in third place, made some strange slip ups (although, as pointed out above, the last defeat saw beckham play) - however, at the same time they're in the champions league finals, in are five points off the top - sooooo, they seem to be doing pretty much as well as they did with him, without him, and vice versa - ie his influence seems to be minimal.
 
 
Supaglue
14:37 / 11.01.07
Well, he's gone and done it..

"David Beckham will leave Real Madrid and join Major League Soccer side LA Galaxy at the end of the season.
The 31-year-old former England captain will sign a five-year deal, reportedly worth £128m."

Dunno what that's gonna do to the Galaxy's wage cap...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:39 / 11.01.07
It won't - the point is that next season one player can be paid above the wage cap per team, with the extra coming directly from the owner of the franchise rather than the team's accounts.

However. £128m over five years is £500,000 per week. Gah!
 
 
Benny the Ball
14:42 / 11.01.07
Really? That can't be right? Adu's currently the highest paid player out there and he's nowhere near that, so it must be some hiden clauses, image rights stuff and bonuses or something in there - I can't see them being anywhere over 100,000 per week.
 
  

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