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Macready: To be honest, I don’t think we’ve had this discussion in quite this way. So it might be interesting. I do appreciate that it gets a bit tired though.
Anyway…
Oh for fuck's sake. You're actually seriously going to try to defend a song glorifying pimping? On Barbelith, the only place i have ever found on the web where feminism is taken seriously?
Well, that depends on what you mean by “defend” doesn’t it? Would I say that there is nothing in the song that troubles me, that I’d be happy to glorify it’s every sentiment? No. Would I say I think it’s a great, powerful record, one that I really enjoy? Yes.
I'm fully fucking aware of the economic, social and ideological conditions that make "pimp" as a "career" and/or a symbol of "coolness" attractive to young (not necessarily black) men in the poor urban areas of the developing world.
Part of the reason for Jay Z’s success is that he’s able to link together these ideas of “coolness” and aspiration to create a really compelling persona – or personas maybe (to follow Joe’s argument). Part of their power is precisely their anti-social nature. Now, I can quite clearly see the attraction in these images, and I can even feel it myself, while at the same time finding the stance offered morally questionable. As Joe said, we’re full of contractions and inconsistencies, and that’s a more interesting and complex response to me than art/music that just replicates and reflects back my ideology.
Years ago, because of Ice T, I sought out and read Iceberg Slim’s book Pimp Do I like every sentiment in that book? No. Am I glad it exists? Yes. If anything, it told me how fucked up circumstances have been and still are for black Americans. I can’t say I’m taking exactly the same reading from a song like “Big Pimping”, but I’d draw a parallel in saying I don’t just want to shut out every attitude in black culture that makes me uncomfortable. I think you can learn a lot from being hearing these attitudes and learning about the circumstances that create them (that sounds a bit specious as I write it, what I mean is a 20 year+ engagement with Hip Hop has exposed me to all kinds of areas that I wouldn’t have encountered otherwise).
Your personal experience is hugely fucked up, and I’m sorry to hear that you had to be around that shit. But, as I’m sure you’re aware, the cause of these problem doesn’t lie in the music itself (though Hip Hop does attract a lot of censure from a lot of critics who apparently believe it does). Why shouldn’t music reflect the negative socio-economic circumstances that black American have to put up with? It seems obvious and inevitable to me that popular music will talk about these things, and not always in a way that’s simply and easily digested by white liberals.
I have a real big problem with the logical extension of that idea, which is that black people should be under some sort of obligation to make positive and empowering music.
Not only is this bad politics, even worse, it arguably leads to some fucking terrible music. |
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