BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Temple >

Global Orgasm 12/22/06

  
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
Ticker
19:07 / 14.11.06
yeah it's a problem with how we conceptualize things. You get this construct of World Peace but WTF is that really? It is about compassion for the strangers in your life, understanding for those who take issue with your actions, the willingness to make fresh choices about who we are and where we are going.

You know, hippy shit.

Ritual is a profound means to alter the self. Once we transform our selves then we can manifest as catalysts in the world. It's fucking hard sometimes and yet we must never underestimate the power of it.

You know, mystical shit.
 
 
Papess
12:55 / 15.11.06
You get this construct of World Peace but WTF is that really?

Right. Too many definitions and the possibility that the only way to maintain "world peace" is to wipe out human-kind.

Maybe if this type of thing was approached with more of a "self-love" rather than "global-orgasmic-peace". Maybe if the orgasmic event would coincide with a "be-extra-nice-to-everyone-you-meet-day", or a "put-down-your-weapons-and wank-day", I think that this would be much more effective and focused. Not to mention, people would actually be doing something for peace.
 
 
Ticker
14:10 / 15.11.06
Not to mention, people would actually be doing something for peace.

Well I think this is where we differ. I think people particpating in the event as it stands are actually doing something for peace. Granted it's not as immediately obvious in the world as standing in front of a tank or a letter writing campaign.

I *think* that's another point of divergence I'm having with lot's of other folks posting in this thread. The idea that an act to foster peace can be judged on the tangible measurable results of that specific action.

So a bunch of monks pray for days for world peace and really we have no way currently of measuring that effect on the problem compared with say, a huge voter turn out to elect anti-war officials. Yet I believe there is something productive to the cause of world peace in the monks praying. Perhaps it is only in inspiring other people who then take action in a tangible way. Perhaps it is in some less definable influence that nudges collective awareness. Though the whole EGG measurement of randomness is a pretty great attempt to measure some blip of it doing something.

Again I'm forced to return to intent as a valid measurement of good work in the world. I know I know, good intentions and all that but I do think that a half hour of any intentional act to foster world peace has value. The results of the half hour of pleasure versus half hour of writing campaign are hard to determine. How many of my letters get read by junior slush pile wrangler for my reps versus read by someone who pays attention? Does the letter of a freak like me out weigh big business' payoffs?

I send out my intention in a letter or in an orgasm, one has traceable process map of succes/failure/impact. The other doesn't so much have that clearly defined process map but it does have the advantage of not going through a corrupt government to land in a garbage bin.

so in my eyes there is something of value for any human to take a moment out of their regularly scheduled whatever and dedicate it to the cause of World Peace. I mean holy crap could you imagine the impact if 1 million people concurrently particpated in "Make Love Not War"?

ah yes more hippy shit. I obviously need to go listen to something dark and depressing to get the gleam of hope out of my eyes. People will talk, you know.
 
 
Papess
14:47 / 15.11.06
Well I think this is where we differ. I think people particpating in the event as it stands are actually doing something for peace. Granted it's not as immediately obvious in the world as standing in front of a tank or a letter writing campaign.

I *think* that's another point of divergence I'm having with lot's of other folks posting in this thread. The idea that an act to foster peace can be judged on the tangible measurable results of that specific action.

So a bunch of monks pray for days for world peace and really we have no way currently of measuring that effect ...

Except, I can hardly compare the effort of monks in retreat to the efforts needed from individuals for a global wankfest. No, we cannot measure the results of either, but the diligence with which the monks employ their method of engendering peace, seeems to be the useful tool that accompanies most achievements.

I think you may misunderstand me, xk. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought there were no results from such an event taking place. I do however, question the benefit of those results.

Also, if one's only contribution to "world peace" is spraying good intentions all over yours or someone else's body parts and/or linens, it seems to me like being deluded that our genitals are some wish-granting device one can use much like the manner in which the servitor Gek was previously used in.
 
 
Ticker
15:49 / 15.11.06
Except, I can hardly compare the effort of monks in retreat to the efforts needed from individuals for a global wankfest. No, we cannot measure the results of either, but the diligence with which the monks employ their method of engendering peace, seeems to be the useful tool that accompanies most achievements.

I think it's the generalizations that are problematic for me. Not all monks praying are going to be more skilled or dedicated than those using orgasm. I can't support a tidy division like that. For example some of the people using orgasm on that day may very well be trained in the practice of focused sexual energy release. Sexual ritual is not automaticaly of lesser value than prayer.

I think you may misunderstand me, xk. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought there were no results from such an event taking place. I do however, question the benefit of those results.

Ok question them in detail out here for me please so I can understand you better. We've got some folks in this thread listing apathy as the worst approach to world problems. I think we're all pretty good with that as a baseline of crapitude?

Also, if one's only contribution to "world peace" is spraying good intentions all over yours or someone else's body parts and/or linens, it seems to me like being deluded that our genitals are some wish-granting device one can use much like the manner in which the servitor Gek was previously used in.

again I find this view point is awash in assumptions I can't agree with. First how do we know this is the partcipants one and only contribution? How do we know how they view orgasm alone as wish granting service?

to deconstruct this a bit I understand that if a person posts to this forum 'hey dig my wet sigil peace action, d00d' they are aggrivating and worthy of eye poking because
1. they aren't saying anything of value to this community and are to some extant wasting our time
2. Our community standard of what is valid ritual is about thoughfulness, research, and dedication.

BUT we are not really talking about someone posting that to this forum we are instead talking about a group of people who we do not know in the context of how they percieve this working.

I hear (maybe this is correct?) your concerns that in the worse case scenerio you have a bunch of people jillin' off thinking they've done something grand and magical to change the world who then go back to their regular shitty behavior feeling smug and superior. Have they accomplished anything for the cause of WP or (if I'm to fish out some nuances from your posts), have they added to the negative balance?

YET, I can also well envision the people who have already altered their daily actions to tend to the planet and WP who are taking a step into sexual ritual. OR the numerous sexual magicians who elect to focus their attention on this group working.

Okay this may not make any sense but walk with me for a minute.
IMO people are using their energy all the time for all sorts of things. Wish fufilment and the magic of obsession is most likely a universal human option which is to say we all have the ability to shape our reality. The majority of people I know and interact with do not have this POV, rather they think of reality as being completely externally generated elsewhere. From my POV this perception of non partcipation in reality is a devasting extention of apathy. Here then is the big stumbling block of free will, who gives a shit if you're told you have free will if you don't believe your choices make a difference? If your actions, your intentions, your very selfhood does not matter of course apathy is going to seem to be a very valid option.

The moment someone believes their actions can make a difference there is hope and a chance they will become invested in the outcome. Add to that the potential first taste of particpating in shaping reality directly through the working of your intent, your will, and suddenly the idea of why you should be invested in reality snaps into focus. Your will, your ability to particpate in the shaping of reality has value and impact and this knowledge alone can motivate countless people.

Now for every wet sigil slinger that annoys the crap out if us how many have developed into thoughtful and dedicated practioners and how many never develop passed it? I really can't say but I tell you I cherish every person who has decided that their intent and will to reshape the world is real and has power. Even if their very first invitation to do so was via a collective orgasm project or in the letters column of a comic book.
 
 
Seth
16:06 / 15.11.06
I think there's another dimension to the change-the-world-from-the-comfort-of-your-own-bed scenario, which is that there's no space for the reverse side of the interaction, in which the world that you're intending to change can come back to you and comment on your attempts to try and change it. For me this is vital, because I have to ask myself, "What do I know?" To act in a hands on manner provides the people with whom you are acting a space to come back and critique you and your position, and with the benefit of working within that ecology you can revise your position based on feedback. Allowing access to yourself also allows you to provide further input as and when people ask it of you, because they know who and and where you are. This is healthy and also a much richer, more difficult position. Otherwise you're operating at a distance and potentially at odds with what the situation really is.

Again, the caveat that work of this type can be alright if combined with other things. On it's own I'd always question it thoroughly.
 
 
Papess
16:19 / 15.11.06
I hear (maybe this is correct?) your concerns that in the worse case scenerio you have a bunch of people jillin' off thinking they've done something grand and magical to change the world who then go back to their regular shitty behavior feeling smug and superior. Have they accomplished anything for the cause of WP or (if I'm to fish out some nuances from your posts), have they added to the negative balance?

Nuances? I thought I was being quite clear - but yes, this is basically what I mean. There is no way to know who those people are. I don't think the ratio of experienced and thoughtful sex magician is too high, globally. I don't think any of us were one when we wanked over comic books. But here we are.

I think it's the generalizations that are problematic for me. Not all monks praying are going to be more skilled or dedicated than those using orgasm.

True. However, how can I judge the dedication and thoughtfulness of all the individual sex magicians? I can't. Nor can anyone. At least, in the case of a monk, there is some evidence that this person is somewhat self-sacrificing and devoted to their cause.

I am specifically aiming my statements at the thrill-seekers rather than legitimate peace-makers and sexual magicians dedicated toi their purpose. The problem I have with an event such as this is, you jnust do not know what mix you are working with.

Why not just masturbate everyday focused on world peace, then? That would be an infinately greater display of dedication, IMHO.
 
 
Quantum
16:54 / 15.11.06
apathy as the worst approach to world problems.

If we're talking about hippies then yeah. Bear in mind though a lot of people work full time and pour vast resources into fucking the world up (e.g. BushGov) so there's worse positions than apathy, but I suspect many people attracted to the globalgasm will be more hippy than necon. If apathy is founded on feelings of impotence then maybe a big old sexfest does combat that and empower people and might kickstart them into doing more.
 
 
grant
16:56 / 15.11.06
there's no space for the reverse side of the interaction, in which the world that you're intending to change can come back to you and comment on your attempts to try and change it.

Bedroom's not part of the world, then? And one doesn't leave it afterward?
 
 
Ticker
19:50 / 15.11.06
Again, the caveat that work of this type can be alright if combined with other things. On it's own I'd always question it thoroughly.

well that's a sound stab at the root of the difference in perception I'm having. Are there really people who do this type of thing (at any level of experience) 'on its own'?

to take it to another topic are there really people who just sling the odd sigil for say weightloss, and don't make other changes in their dietary/exercise habits? Can we say with conviction the use of the sigil toss will not affect them to promote these more mundane changes?

If these people exist can we condemn the entire practice if we know it does lead some other folks to making the mundane changes and/or widening the scope of their magical work?

I don't think the ratio of experienced and thoughtful sex magician is too high, globally. I don't think any of us were one when we wanked over comic books. But here we are.

Actually I discovered the ol' comicbook wank many many many years after having an established sex magic practice. Seemed highly amusing at the time how the medium of instruction shifts to match the times.

True. However, how can I judge the dedication and thoughtfulness of all the individual sex magicians? I can't. Nor can anyone. At least, in the case of a monk, there is some evidence that this person is somewhat self-sacrificing and devoted to their cause.

I'm sorry to disagree but that appears to me to be a bit of glossing over the range of monks. Some people are in monastic communites because of politics or misbehavior or any number of non self sacrificing and devotional reasons. A quick google search shows me a bunch of monastry sex offender related stories from a wide range of sources.
I'd counter by saying how can we judge the dedication and thoughtfulness of any one we don't know very well?

I am specifically aiming my statements at the thrill-seekers rather than legitimate peace-makers and sexual magicians dedicated toi their purpose. The problem I have with an event such as this is, you jnust do not know what mix you are working with.

Okay. So what do you envision is the specific danger/problem with having the thrill seekers in the mix?

Bear in mind though a lot of people work full time and pour vast resources into fucking the world up (e.g. BushGov) so there's worse positions than apathy,

You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity

As much as I loathe neocon doctrine I have yet to see anything openly admitting to being the DeVeal's Own. Misguided stupid human tricks will be the death of us but I sincerely doubt the neocons cast themselves into the role of Villain. In fact many of them think they are saving the world and working towards WP.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:44 / 15.11.06
I once saw a Nicaraguan activist hippy give a lecture on revolution in which he said the best tools, no, the best 'arms' for revolution were to do a monumental amount of fucking and to become a master at T'ai chi.

He's got a point. You know, it's the same thing as Quantum's peace dude, and the idea of learning to love yourself in order to love others.

As far as I understand it the Global Orgasm project is not suggesting a multitude of wanking. Just a multitude of orgasms, and if they are undertaken with other people they're a very different thing to personal wanking.

I'm unhappy about the hippy = apathetic route this thread is swerving in. Being a hippy is about rejecting the established culture; in this case a culture of war and anger and greed and consumerism, environmental idiocy and disregard for any other species than our own. The idea of a hippy as someone who smokes a lot of weed, takes a lot of acid and talks about changing the world whilst going, "Whoooo, look at all the colours man" as they gaze into the lava lamp is in the very least outdated and actually much more likely rooted in anti-hippy propaganda which has created a stereotype very atypical of your actual common or garden hippy.

So could we desist with that please? Because I think it's unfair on, you know, hippies, man.
 
 
Seth
23:07 / 15.11.06
Bedroom's not part of the world, then? And one doesn't leave it afterward?

In my experience the type of bedroom practitioners who will only engage in this type of practise without using it as a complement to more direct involvement won't talk about their magic with anyone that it's intended to effect. So yes, you could say that their bedroom is an isolated bubble away from the world and that their magic never really leaves it.
 
 
Papess
14:03 / 16.11.06
I'm sorry to disagree but that appears to me to be a bit of glossing over the range of monks. Some people are in monastic communites because of politics or misbehavior or any number of non self sacrificing and devotional reasons. A quick google search shows me a bunch of monastry sex offender related stories from a wide range of sources.

Well, that is exactly my point, though. You don't know peoples' reasons or circumstances. But for arguments sake, let's just say I meant those who have chosen monastic lifesyles. Good point about the sex offences...so, unfortunately true....but only furthers my initial point.

For me, and maybe others don't feel this way, but I will not participate in something like this again. I will continue to do my solo work, and maybe with a trusted partner, but I would save any group work for a trusted and competant group of sex magic practitioners. I am all for sex magic and practice it.

The thing I hate the most about wankomancy is that some people think they can do it and get results without actually having to give it any effort. The thoughts leading up to, at the point of, and even after orgasm must be single-pointed and I do not have the belief that everyone will do that, or is capable of it. Just fucking or wanking is not a magickal act in itself. The will must be directed properly.

Anyway, if my theories are correct about panorgasmic workings for world peace, after this event I suspect that Madonna, Angelina Jolie, and Brad Pitt will perform a ménage a trois and then adopt a small third world country.
 
 
Ticker
15:40 / 16.11.06
re hippies....

Er I hope my posts weren't reading as anti-hippy or where the hippy = apathy was sourced from? Rather I was saying hippy = action/focus for World Peace, which is a fine thing except if you happen to be the all black wearing morbid angsty sort and find yourself spouting sunshine, which is where my comments were intended to land. to be extra extra clear I was being self mocking for exposing an agenda of World Peace that runs counter to my supposed beat people up not beat people off normal stance.

re group workings

yeah that is a whole other box o'flakes to open right there. See I'm viewing the event as a group of solo folks in their solo practices doing their thing for a common cause. Common cause not being immediately in my brain attached to group working. Everybody aiming at something as generic as WP (the general concept) using unspecified sexual behavior does not read to me as a group working. Many of us take lunch at 12 pm every day (barring the odd server glitch) that doesn't mean we're having lunch together.

Is there a thread on group working issues we can perform some necromancy on via a bump?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:53 / 16.11.06
There... are. Oh yes.

But I beg of you, for the love of all that is holy, do not disturb their horrid slumber. Just start a new one.
 
 
Papess
16:30 / 16.11.06
That would be a good idea to start a new thread on group workings. Perhaps, specifically, polyfocal sex magick and the pros and cons of such workings.
 
 
Quantum
16:49 / 16.11.06
Do as Mordant says for the sake of us all. Fresh new group workings thread yay!

many of them (neocons) think they are saving the world and working towards WP.

What I meant was, irrespective of what they *think* they are doing all day, from my (hippy) perspective they are fucking shit up. As it turns out, massive amounts of independent evidence supports my opinion, so I feel safe in saying that objectively, in actual fact no matter what I think or they think they really are fucking it up badly and making things actively worse. If Dubyah stays at home for a day and gets down to some fucking for peace then I'd be all for it, but he'll be busy that day fucking things up and congratulating himself on doing the world a favour.
You're right, it's stupidity not villainy (mostly) but it's still a lot of energy poured into capitalist imperialism/sending twenty thousand more soldiers into Iraq/repealing Roe vs.Wade/making & selling brand new SUVs/insert your fuckup here. I'd like to see more active opposition to that, so if the orgasmathon stimulates people into high energy real-world action then I'm all for it. If people just roll over and go to sleep afterwards, not so much.
 
 
Ticker
19:41 / 16.11.06
That would be a good idea to start a new thread on group workings. Perhaps, specifically, polyfocal sex magick and the pros and cons of such workings.

Well I'd be down with more of a general multi purpose group working thread as not all of my ranting fist shaking festivals of experience are about sex magic. though I encourage you to use the soap box as you see fit.

I'd like to see more active opposition to that, so if the orgasmathon stimulates people into high energy real-world action then I'm all for it. If people just roll over and go to sleep afterwards, not so much.


I suspect what is at the core of people's hackle raising reactions to this project (or indeed any public magic/energy/ritual) is the fear that someone will get up to hand waving mumbo jumbo and feel like they've completed their turn at the chore list of adult responsibility....

Well I feel that way about people who only give money at Xmas time to Salvation Army collecters outside of the supermarket, or only a couple of cans of food at Thanksgiving, or buy some girl scout cookies, or maybe MAYBE bother to drop off their used clothing every few years. No you don't get a reward for doing the right thing as if you've singlehandedly saved the world by taking five minutes to do what should be the basic obvious thing.

Now does the lazy ass 'praise me for recycling because my town makes me' person deserve more or less eye poking than the hand waving sigil charging one?

See I don't believe the problem is with the magical over the mundane lip service. They both suck equally. I think what folks are worried about is the mystique of the hand waving being more of balm to the ego than say the canned food drive. Yet at the heart what we're looking at are people who have a shitty baseline of personal responsbility in the world.

Sigh.

IMO everyone of us is doing magic everyday. Every.Stinking.One.Of.Us.
Sure most don't think about it or notice it but all those obsessions, all those angsty needy hearts out there are praying and wishing. We might be lucky that the majority of them don't have their shit together enough for it to be a honed effective impact instead of just background chatter, but it's happening. Worse is all the misery and lonely awfulness seething underneath and coming out in our actions and our words. Those of us who can focus for a bit can get decent intentional results. Those of us who can study and learn can see how to be more effective and a few folks after many years become really proficiant at it.

so to me it isn't "you're not qualified via intent and training to do magic back away from the wank" it is "yes, you breathe everyday unconsciously but this is how to breathe for ideal oxygen content to your muscles, have you ever thought about breathing before?"
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:20 / 17.11.06
Mordant, I'm returned, hope you're happy. =)

I got mostly pissed with yours and Quintum's reaction to my first post and I want to apologize for that. so much for a thread on World peace starting with a small bickering, eh? it seems the decompression from my former fictionsuits is getting me[meplex] over-sensitive.

ok, the thread starter was very thin, I admit, but surely it was enough to get the conversation going! I never got called upon here, that's why I overreacted. sorry, guys.

but what have I returned to? MATERIALITH!!!

I'm not an Expert Magus or anything, but haven't you guys - you there rolling your eyes and calling the ones engaged in the global wank/fuck project - "twisted" ever heard of... Meditation, Collective unconscious, Tantra, Neutrinos, Quantum physicist Amit Goswami's theories? [I highly recommend his book "The Visionary Window: A Quantum Physicist's Guide to Enlightenment".]

I don't know who said the thing about the room being part of the World anyway, but that's the point. we ARE part of the whole. be you a believer in the theory of the Biota/Unimind or not. this fucking mud and water rotating ball is alive.

in any case, the only real Revolution happens in the head.

so, I do believe that reaching Gnosis/Momentarily Consciousness Shift/Ignite your Kundalini / reach Nirvana alters reality on a material level, that of the neutrinos, via our Collective Unconscious. the easiest to learn, cheapest way to perform that is orgasming. either wanking or having sex with someone.

is it hard to fuck while picturing general World Peace? make a sygil. it won't hurt if you visualize the idea prior to performing the sexual act or any other thing you do to reach the Switch Flick moment [dancing, running, crying, jumping from a high place, doing the Kung Fu Horse position].

I brought upon 2012 because there are a lot of evidences for a major shift in Culture then and you lot are aware of them. I'm not talking about the Apocalypse - not in the sense of a complete end of life on Earth. but a new beginning. a new Psychedelia age, at least. whatever happens, why not ride that wave for a good purpose? if the stars DO get properly aligned, maybe we can help the surfboard carrying us go further.

I suppose a better effect would be to wank/fuck not for Peace but for letting go of Unnecessary Greed. that's main fuel for all of the wars in Human History anyway, even when religious reasons are the first sparkle. mutual understanding comes easier when economical differences are smaller.

I don't think The Empire will ever Die, I'm just of the mind the balance need to be levelled out a bit as things as they are now are too unfair. social-responsible growth; some very large multinational companies are starting to consider this, as they're starting to profit less and less with their production. people simply don't have money to spend on what they're producing, and the social environment [talking also about the urban forrest's ecosystem here] is being completely destroyed.

I live in Brazil, a country in perpetual [yet invi$ible] civil war since the Military Regime let election take place in '84. now, in one side, civil society and social institutions: The State, The Church, Big Companies, Military Police, the Upper Class hidden in modern condos. fighting against the Drug Lords, The Movement for Land, Informal Economy and their pirated products, criminals of all kinds [a lot of them organized in prison militias that have even a monthly cash pay to pay for lawyers, nationwide].

what do both sides want? sell us their shit so they can get richer and richer. not even mentioning the bankers and politicians who finance said drug lords. it's a war of Commerce. because fuckers are greedy.

I'm very interested to learn: who among you are smokers?

why do we need SUVs, gigantic plasma TVs, big bowls of cocaine, electricity and petrol to power both, health care, social security? Can you have all that without some unlucky 3rd or 4th World fucker not brutalized? I believe you can [maybe not such HUGE SUVs, but...].

the hands-on part of the action is needed, of course, dammit. what are doing for it? first: are you at least treating well those around you? your house, your office, the sidewalk, the dancefloor? do respect them as human beings when they disagree with you on an important subject or even when they show hate towards you for any matter? can you forgive them. can you see past all that shit and realize there's only one ship, no escape pod?

have you ever felt a mad rush/wave of serotonin after a good workout at the gym or running, swimming? picture that on a huge level, for the whole world. even if you consider the different timezones - it's a wave anyway. how can thinking good thoughts at anytime be bad, stupid or useless?

the way to fix the world is to fix ourselves. move your hips and the World will follow.

doing it is NOT fucking easy. not at all, not one bit. but that's the main plan, boss. otherwise we're fucked and might as well become total pricks with no respect for the Human Race [towards just living a good life] or put a bullet in the head to make the Life bar in our FirstLife game console get emptied sooner.
 
 
Princess
22:25 / 17.11.06
%Thank God, a messiah%
 
 
Ticker
23:17 / 17.11.06
easy Princess....Hector's passionate about people giving a shit which I glean from the majority of the thread is what our community wants to support.

Hector you may want to reread parts of the thread that happened after your original posts to see what ground we've covered.

We've been discussing the issue in some depth and the concern isn't the wank or not to wank as much as it is the concern that people will participate only on this small level and feel disproportionately satisfied with taking care of their responsibility to the state of the World. Folks are worried that the media splashiness of the Global Ectasy project doesn't promote daily and constant responsibility.
It is of great concern to the members of this community that magic not be used as a empty replacement for valid action (which includes thoughtful and dedicated use of magic).
 
 
Papess
01:01 / 18.11.06
xk, as I would think you realise, sex is a complicated thing. It seems to trip people up a lot. People carry so much baggage with them about sex. I suppose that is what worries me about this type of working. Is this not a reasonable concern?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:58 / 18.11.06
princess: c'mon...

xk: see what you mean, and apreciate you being open-minded and willing to build from that. it's that project's duty to inform participants and media of this issue. that still doesn't take away the point of their main goal.

the fact some members here are concerned with this more adult approach that mashes action in both planes is very positive.

I did read the whole thread and my passionate reply [magick needs passion too] is aimed at the manifestations of ultra-cinism through witty reactions that don't help the discussion at all.

and sound very strange for me in The Temple. a weird place this has become.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:07 / 18.11.06
just to clarify my last post: I'm not of the opinion everybody should agree with what I say and most of the times an argument over a subject reinforces our views and improve them [unless you dissect it to oblivions and nothing is left].

I'm just sad that the posters don't seem to be open-minded as they used to be a [long?] while ago. it's what made this sub-forum fun in the first place. and our fellow skeptical board members are the ones that should be first trying to the stuff they laugh at/are afraid of.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:16 / 18.11.06
sorry for the triple post, I just forgot to reply to this:

Is this not a reasonable concern?

it shouldn't be, my friend. ins spite of what I read regarding your professional experience with patients / research subjects, sex should be source of fun, enjoyment [solitaire or otherwise], respect, high self-esteem, discovery and - why not - enlightenment.

if someone has issues when approaching this kind of sexual practice, maybe the person should first try first to get their heads around personal issues regarding sex. as a lot of times our [oppressive] upbringing can and will make us think of it as filthy and plain wrong.

it shouldn't be like that, no matter you're in a steady relationship or in the hunt for fuck buddies at nightclubs or paying for sex. there are both happy and sad components connected to each one of those practices. it all depends on where your mind and your heart are.
 
 
Quantum
13:47 / 18.11.06
I brought upon 2012 because there are a lot of evidences for a major shift in Culture then and you lot are aware of them.

I'm not. Go to the 2012 thread and enlighten me, please.

I'm just sad that the posters don't seem to be open-minded as they used to be a [long?] while ago. it's what made this sub-forum fun in the first place.

Now that I'd violently disagree with. You want me to post some of Fetch's demented ISIS=BEEF posts to exemplify why the Temple is better now than it has been? It's still fun, except now we are expected to justify our crazed rantings instead of asserting that human orgasms somehow affect neutrinos and thus change the world for the better. That leads to a higher standard of debate, and attracts posters who are more likely to have a sound understanding of their practice and less likely to attract Matrix Warriors.

I do believe that reaching Gnosis/Momentarily Consciousness Shift/Ignite your Kundalini / reach Nirvana alters reality on a material level, that of the neutrinos, via our Collective Unconscious.

Take this for example. I also believe that gnostic states can affect the material world, but I don't believe it's the same as reaching Nirvana or a momentary shift in consciousness, and it's *definitely* got nothing to do with neutrinos which are a subatomic particle that sleets through solid matter like bullets through fog. I think a vast group working (sexual or otherwise) could have a noticable effect, but it requires a level of cohesion and cooperation that a simultaneous orgasm alone doesn't have. That's just my opinion, and I feel the same about (for example) Live 8, that it was a big event where many thousands of people felt better about the injustice of the world but actually achieved very little beyond assuaging the guilt of the politically inactive. Nice idea, sloppy execution.
 
 
Papess
14:22 / 18.11.06
I completely agree with your ideas on healthy sexuality, Hector Lima. I agree also, this shouldn't be a concern, but how things are and how they should be, are very different things. To take some stock of the possible complications, even though I do love your enthusiasm. I used to feel the same way myself. I have enthusiastically taken part in panorgasmic/polyfocol sex magick before, as well as other types of sex magick. So, I have tried it. I said I would never do it again, but maybe I am being too rash, (oh dear, there was no pun meant!). I suppose if I could understand how to deal with the complications I see with these workings, then maybe I would be able to take part again. However, I just can't help feeling that there is nothing in these types of workings to guard the integrity of the working.

Just to clarify for you too: I am not a "professional" in the sense you may be used to, but there is a therapist-like or researcher-like aspect to my work, however. I am a sex worker, most people know that here. I am also an political activist in this respect. I meet hundreds, if not thousands of people each year that make themselves sexually open with me (which does not necessarily mean having sex with them, BTW). What I always remember is, I am only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Human beings, on a large scale, generally have issues around sex. People attracted to this Global Ecstacy prject may not be attracted to this for the WP aspect, so much as the idea of having a global-virtual-orgy. Just to say it is what is on the box, doesn't mean that is what is inside.

I am trying to look at this with a critical eye, I do not want to condemn this. I apologize if I came off that way. Armed with my own experiences and the small skill set of analytical thought I have learned from Barbelith, I am wondering what the effects and effectiveness of this event are. I think it odd if Barbelithers wouldn't question the nature and benefit of events.
 
 
Ticker
15:09 / 18.11.06
as I would think you realise, sex is a complicated thing. It seems to trip people up a lot. People carry so much baggage with them about sex. I suppose that is what worries me about this type of working. Is this not a reasonable concern?

weeeellll since you asked....

I think the majority of humans in our current Western society are completely insane laden with baggage out the gills and utterly not fit to raise a popsicle. I say this because my culture and those in direct relation to it appear to be doing insane things constantly. One measure of insanity is doing the same action over and over again and expecting to get different results. I find it absolutely insane that we (myself included) have normalized mass pollution, armed conflict on the current scale, and a whole slew of other really really wacked things.Yet I too am a cog in the wheel happily going about my measure of the madness so I'm not judging others.

With this baseline of utter mess I don't believe it is possible to undertake a working of any kind (again excpetions abound but hey) with out striking the fool's gold of our baggage. All the humans I know of have some form of sexual issue and very few have the healthy joy of a bonobo. Most high level practitioners I know have spent decades trying to get a handle on a few of their quirks and seem to end up having to accept the continued existence of several hundred more. That's the thing, because we're all fucked up I believe we're all equally qualified and disqualified from doing this work.

Further more I have come to believe that the ways we are screwed up and our struggles with those twists are part of our tool box for fixing things. Everyone on the planet has a right to participate in the stewardship of the planet. We are in no position to legislate who is competent and who isn't because frankly, we don't know what the proper criteria really is. I want to avoid the whole noble savage spirituality trap of saying that indigenous people are somehow more or better qualified to drive the bus because they often had/have more sustainable relationships with the planet. A lot of times that's utter crap as many indigenous societies used up local natural resources just as many animals do. So possesing modern technology IMO or not possesing it is not a qualifier nor can we say the person who fantasizes about child rape is disqualified from helping structure WP simply because they are a real product of this reality.

That's the thing really. All humans have nasty aspects but some are able to control their actions and we have to judge them by those actions out here in the shared reality. There is a vast huge enormous difference between a person who fantasizes about sexual taboos and one who enacts them in the world.


ENTERING FANTASY-LAND (please don't take out of context)
For example the fantasy of rape (let's stick to adult victims for this one) is pretty common for both people who imagine themselves in the position of victim and attacker. However in these fantasies the majority of people build the element of secret desire into the dynamic. In the fantasy the victim secretly wants the sexual act to happen. Those inhabiting the attacker role are in truth misnaming a form of sexual domainance that is utterly depended on the consent and desire of the other person. Their sexual satisfaction is dependant on the secret desire of the victim validating their actions. Those imagining themselves as victims are misnaming a passive/submissive sexual role yet want to be forced into a sex act they really do wish have happen.

This is utterly different from real rape where the victim has no desire and no ability to consent/refuse and yet countless adults I know suffer profound and crippling guilt from having these fantasies. I've known people of many sexual orientations and genders who are ashamed because they think they are secretly desiring a horrible thing when in fact they just don't have the language to understand what arouses them is a consensual power dynamic.

If we say 'no one with rape fantasies need apply' for a sex group working we would automaticaly lose a large population of people who are most certainly not rapists.
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply