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Underground > Comic Books >

Grant Morrison Bites

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10:48 / 02.11.06

Ah, but they weren't hackneyed, were they? They were about doing away with Hackneyed shit.

unheimlich manoeuvre

12:36 / 02.11.06

And you have to be able to process metaphor. No schizophrenics allowed.

...

I suspect I'm still at the feck-all-you-naysayers stage out of respect for his form.
Who out there do you prefer?

The Natural Way

12:51 / 02.11.06

I think you'll find, if you cast yr eyes, across this thread, that there are very few real naysayers. But the question 'who out there do you prefer?' is a bit silly. There's loads good of writers (many of whom do not write super-books) so, you know, take yr pick.

unheimlich manoeuvre

13:12 / 02.11.06

Thanks but I've read the thread. That wasn't aimed at you or your twin.
More a general problem I have with the "Grant Morrison Bites" thread idea.

13:16 / 02.11.06

Hey, this is a topic to explore, I reckon. The title is deliberate overstatement

14:28 / 02.11.06

Well, I'm looking at that Batman now and until page seven it's Grant binning the old storyline, as you say Boboss ditching the hackneyed Jokercopter etc. and literally chucking J in a dumpster. I found it intrusive, like Grant in a batsuit critiquing the prior writer (whoever it was who left him the cliffhanger) at the expense of the story. It broke the suspension of disbelief for me so hard that the rest of the issue I found myself irritated by (IMHO) cheap writer's tricks and over-critical of the story. Considering I started out giving it a lot of benefit of the doubt (it's GM after all) I finished deciding not to buy the next issue.

Examples? OK leafing through it- Gordon gets better, but visually and in dialogue echoing two-face and then explicitly saying 'except for two-face Gotham's clean- what do you do now?'. Ooh, wow, what a profound insight into Bats' character, he's obsessed with fighting crime and defined by the villains he faces. Arkham Asylum it's not.
Then the Batcave scene- get rid of Robin and tease a new batmobile, yep, that's subtle GM, why not use Alfred as a mouthpiece like Gordon? "Alfred's telling me I have to relearn how to be Bruce Wayne" ah, there we go.
Then the mysterious villain scene (who could it be?!) and Langstrom stumbles into Bruce- that's a handy coincidence innit? Might as well have a messenger ride into town on a horse called Plot and drop dead after gasping a vital clue.
Then the practicing being louche, cut to the shock ending- Bats has a son! Ooh some manbats! Is that Talia or Lady Shiva? Next issue is Batman vs the league of assassins ninja man-bats, which was the final cheese straw for me.
Lazy writing, leading to a mediocre Batman story that could have been written by anyone. I'm not saying it was *bad* like a lot of comics are bad, but I wanted more from Grant's Batman, it could have been really cool and it wasn't.

So anyway, that's an over-elaborate way of saying that while George might not bite, he is fallible as any writer and has good and bad output. Some people seem to think that's heresy.

The Natural Way

14:30 / 02.11.06

Valence, I didn't assume you were aiming yr comments at me or mine, I just don't agree that this thread, on close examination, is full of naysaying or that the question 'who is a better writer then?' counts as any kind of meaningful response to the naysaying that does exist. I mean, if someone tells you they prefer Brian K Vaughn, where do you go from there? Nod yr head sagely? Retort with a 'Phah! He's rubbish! Last time I ever consider yr opinion seriously...'? Ring up Grant and get them to duke it out?

I suppose I'm working on the assumption that the 'Who do you prefer?' thing's some kind of rhetorical strategy when you might just be curious, so I'm sorry if I'm being a bit of an arse when I should be giving you the benefit of the doubt.

14:31 / 02.11.06

Arkham Asylum it's not.

Thank God

The Natural Way

14:31 / 02.11.06

One thing, Quints: I don't think Grant has any interest in dumping the jokercopter - Grant's superhero work's all about the jokercopters.

The Natural Way

14:33 / 02.11.06

I think you see cheese - ninja manbats, jokercopters, etc - where I see joycore.

14:35 / 02.11.06

Quantum's schizophrenic, he can't process Morrison.

14:43 / 02.11.06

Sorry, Quoo-bum, I didn't mean to suggest that it was my favourite issue of the run. It's full of Granticus telling and not showing, which, like you, I'm not so keen on. I was just objecting to your "hackneyed" accusation.

Also, fer cryeye, the Batman of the last ten years needed to be binned. GM wasn't having a dig at the previous writer, he was having a dig at a dullarse Batbook editorial policy that been around for far too long.

Before I go, I want to see a lot more of the Jokercopter. I can't remember the last time I saw one of them. IMO, it's one of those details that suggested that the book was heading in a new direction.

14:44 / 02.11.06

Quantum likes Batman best when he's breaking spines.

--

14:48 / 02.11.06

You know, I really liked "Arkham Asylum", though I can see why so many people hate it. Actually, I almost liked the script better than the actual comic itself... it was a really fascinating read. I like art that bombards you with tons of symbolism.

14:51 / 02.11.06

I hate the term cheesey. Mainly because it doesn't really have any meaning for me.

Tacky I can understand, Hackneyed I get, but cheesey not so much.

unheimlich manoeuvre

14:52 / 02.11.06

Apologies from me. Remembered the thread diz was refering to and wanted to link to it. Should've left it at that.
Not the constructive analysis this thread deserves.

15:02 / 02.11.06

Quantum likes Batman best when he's breaking spines.

There's someone else who does it better...

For cheese, read 'tired' or 'overused' or 'obvious' or 'disappointing' or 'trite' or whatever, washed out tropes from the thirties beyond their sell-by date.
Batman fighting ninja man-bats, it might be joycore but I didn't like joycore either. It reduces him to the level of Wolverine.

15:03 / 02.11.06

God, I'm going on....

The thing is, no-one's done ninja Manbats and Jokercopters with a contemporary sensibility before. This stuff is a love letter to the Batman that gets brushed under the carpet in favour of grim and gritty and vigilantism and SERIOUSNESS!, in much the same way that ASS is a love letter to the Superman that had demented sci-fi adventures.

And it's bloody funny.

Can't persuade anyone to like it, I suppose, but I think it's proper sexy fun and I'm sad for those that don't get a hard on for it.

15:04 / 02.11.06

I think we must have very different understandings of the word "overused".

15:05 / 02.11.06

footnote- I'd love to see more Jokercopter too, in fact what I'd like to see is an evil daughter-of-the-penguin style villain cloned from Poison Ivy and Scarecrow.

15:09 / 02.11.06

In fact, I think we may agree fundamentally that it would be better to read GM's love letter straight out. I know I would love to see him given a totally free hand.

15:10 / 02.11.06

Last thing- should I read the next few issues? Does it get better?

15:20 / 02.11.06

I'm fairly certain ninja manbats are a 100% new hybrid of two old things. Alarming twist.

16:30 / 02.11.06

http://www.pvponline.com/images/batman/

Surely that is the best Batman ever?

16:36 / 02.11.06

Hah, that's great! This is my favourite Batman/Superman crossover;

17:23 / 02.11.06

LOL. Yes, that's quite a good one.

19:44 / 02.11.06

That's not Batman and Superman, you fools. Clearly those are Bert and Ernie.

Anyhow, for my single cent (saving the other for after I've really read some of the new issues and not just skimmed), Morrison does some of the best Bat since... oh, 'Ichi the Killer' or 'Night on Earth' at least. It's a Batman who can live in the DCU without looking shit, y'know? Hairychestedlovegodgo go go!

But this is like the second time now, he's felt the need to write a Bat-get-better pill, though, isn't it? With 'Arkham Asylum' trying to do the same thing back in eighty-nine?

JLA's Batman, under Morrison, was the healed successful Batman of our dreams, complete with cheating/winning, Batgod superbrain, and the casual revelation that he totally is Bruce Wayne, all the goddamned time, and it's the gruff, pissy fetishy emo-bruiser who's the false front.

He's the the only person in thirty years who lets Bruce actually sleep with all these gorgeous jetsetter brainsurgeon-supermodel nuclear stunners, isn't he? And, other than Miller, he's the only one who seems to let him smile. That's kinda horrible.

20:58 / 08.11.06

OK. So it's impossible to reply to specific postings or reply with quotes (without putting in /far/ too much effort), so I'll respond to points made, and hope that the people who made them know who they are.

Morrison always seems to go for writing constructs and word usage that are above his current abilities (stretching yourself is fine, but do it in your practice work, not in professional work). That leads him into writing stuff that is very self-absorbed, and written for the self-indulgent satisfaction of writing it, rather than for the audience.

This is obvious in all his titles, so I shouldn't really need to point out specifics (unless someone asks me to, in which case I'll make the effort to pick out examples that demonstrate the point).

Take Alan "Yeti" Moore as a contrast, and you'll see that Moore's wonderful language usage is natural and intuitive, rather than forced.

And the weirdness that Moore introduces fits into his stories seamlessly; it just floats in and takes over the story. With Morrison, it smacks you in the face that he's sat there, thought up things that have made him bounce up and down, thinking "Yeah! that's good an' weird!", and duct-taped them into whatever title he's been working on.

That kinda detracts from the reader-enjoyment factor.

Yes, some of his glued-on ideas have been fun and enjoyable to read, but the fact that he's just attached them to whatever he was doing at the time (rather than let his work be led by what is right for the characters he's been writing) somewhat detracts from that enjoyment.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:05 / 08.11.06

This is obvious in all his titles, so I shouldn't really need to point out specifics

Did you actually just say that?

21:14 / 08.11.06

It is a fact. You are thick for not seeing the self-evidentness.

21:15 / 08.11.06

That leads him into writing stuff that is very self-absorbed, and written for the self-indulgent satisfaction of writing it, rather than for the audience.

This is also known. Mind probes were used.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:18 / 08.11.06

Hang on, I thought he wrote for the cold, hard CASH???

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:41 / 09.11.06

This is obvious in all his titles, so I shouldn't really need to point out specifics (unless someone asks me to, in which case I'll make the effort to pick out examples that demonstrate the point).

Can you point out specifics please?

12:06 / 09.11.06

Much as I love to compare Moore and Morrison and say how great Alan is, that does seem like rubbish.

13:37 / 09.11.06

Just to put in my $0.02 on the Batman issue: I am underwhelmed by GM's Batman. This may be largely due to the fact that I am overwhelmed by Dini's Detective Comics, which is completely fucking rocking. It's not even really a close comparison.

I like the rest of his stuff right now, though, especially ASS.

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