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A Hypothetical Dilemma

 
  

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StarWhisper
16:21 / 23.09.06
...so a devil in a smoky bar walks up to you and...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:23 / 23.09.06
I would smash my highball glass into his throat and take both envelopes.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
16:27 / 23.09.06
I'd ask him for the invisible third envelope: the devil's own.
 
 
StarWhisper
16:40 / 23.09.06
 
 
StarWhisper
16:52 / 23.09.06
also, I really messed up on the format of this post. I'm a bit stupid when it comes to computers. Sorry
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:09 / 23.09.06
The person I love the most, I have to admit.

Because I've always been a tragic/romantic kinda guy.

But the devil's own envelope is a cool choice too.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:11 / 23.09.06
One million strangers, baby; cos my sweet lovin' is all the redemption any one life could ever need.
 
 
one point, oh
17:25 / 23.09.06
With all moral dilemmas there is only one surefire method to find the correct answer- WWJD (What Would Jesus Do). Essentially WWJD is an algorithm thought up by the greatest moral philosophers in the world so that you know you are always doing right.

So onto your question, to answer it we need to imagine that we are Jesus and have been placed in your dilemma. Clearly the person Jesus loves most is God; they have a very close relationship. So, either Jesus lets god die or one million people die. Now, correct me if I am wrong but if god dies then a lot more than one million people are gonna be totally screwed; devil would be all messing shit up.

Therefore by saving God, Jesus not only gets to save the one he loves most, but also fulfills the greatest good for the greatest number criteria. Clearly Jesus would chose the God envelope. Ergo, using the WWJD algorithm, I would opt to save the one I love most.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:48 / 23.09.06
Ah, but Jesus is God. So, by choosing to open the envelope with the lives of a million strangers, he chooses to die himself.

Which is pretty much how the story goes, if I'm remembering it right.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:11 / 23.09.06
But it's not about letting them die, is it? It's about stopping them from going to hell.

I'd take the million-people envelope. My partner is an atheist anyhow.
 
 
Saint Keggers
18:58 / 23.09.06
I would take the 1 million envelope. Then put it on ebay. Screw them.
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
19:48 / 23.09.06
I'd take the envelopes, walk over to the bartender and ask hir to open one of them. Then I'd open the other. Then I'd smirk.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
21:29 / 23.09.06
I'd call the person I loved the most and ask what ze thought.
 
 
JOY NO WRY
21:47 / 23.09.06
If I saved one million people, there is perhaps a one in a million chance that I'd save anyone I'd get on with. If I saved the person I love most, the odds are a little better. I would always choose that person.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
21:52 / 23.09.06
Hmm... Just thought, one might also simply refuse either envelope. After all, (speaking as an agnostic) everyone is ultimately responsible for their own "redemption"... aren't they?
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
23:26 / 23.09.06
Man, this far into the dilemma and no Stalin quotes?

"When one dies, it is a tragedy. A million die, and it is a statistic."

The envelope of the one I love, every time.

Call it extended survival instincts triumphing over a percieved greater good.
 
 
Bubblegum Death
00:47 / 24.09.06
The one I love the most. Because I wouldn't want my son to die.
 
 
Slate
01:00 / 24.09.06
Ergo, using the WWJD algorithm, I would opt to save the one I love most.

Dove, I would have thought Jesus would have taken the million envelope since he sacrificed himself for all of us? Is there a caveat about the one envelope not being yourself? Anyhoo I reckon I would take the million.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:06 / 24.09.06
Well, this is a con, innit? Because if you take either envelope, you're trading with Satan, which is usually though of as a sin. Although you could go for gold and say that God's mercy is such that you'd be redeemed for ignoring the danger to your own soul and concentrating on others'. Then again, it's not Satan who decides who goes to Hell, so an attempt to rescue others from Hell without God's sanction is certainly an act of Hubris, of contempt for the divine plan, and you're goin' daaaaahn.

More generally, though, Satan never plays fair. So whichever envelope you accept - if you do - is liable to be poisoned; for example, each and every one of those million souls might be aboutto comit a dreadful sin and end up in Hell again.

I think the smart move is simply to smile at Ole NIck and tell him you'll have both envelopes in the name of the One True God, and he better hand 'em over or you're calling in the Fisk University Jubilee Singers. Although the punching in the head has its charms, too.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:13 / 24.09.06
so a devil in a smoky bar walks up to you and... ...from the inside jacket pocket of his tailored suit takes two envelopes. Contained in the first one is the life of the person you love the most. In the second, the lives of one million people you have never met. He gives you them both but you can only open one. The life(s) contained in the envelope you open is redeemed. Which do you choose, and why?

A couple of points:

1. This is "a devil", not Satan. This is some lesser prick. You'd expect Satan's deal to involve some twist, but this is just some smokey-arsed twat with ideas above his station, plying his trade on gullible, mortal drunks. He probably doesn't have the clout to deal with the fate of souls. (Who likes my impression of J Constantine circa 1988.)

2. Not sure I understand the deal. In the envelope is "their life". If you choose it, their life is "redeemed". Posts above are assuming that if you don't pick the envelope, the people within go to Hell. I can't see that spelled out. Also, as I think has been pointed out, if you don't do anything, life carries on as normal. There is no obligation to interfere with the million lives, or the one.
 
 
Seth
10:12 / 24.09.06
Because Noddy wouldn't pay the ransom!
 
 
Jack Fear
12:11 / 24.09.06
Now. What if he'd bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, cause he thinks he's better'n you?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
12:46 / 24.09.06
It's clear at this point that if there is a God, and sin has material consequences, then I'm bound for hell. Therefore, I redeem the million. There's no romance reuniting with a loved one in the afterlife.

Also, what does 'redeem' mean? The fine print, please. I saw Bedazzled.
 
 
HCE
13:29 / 24.09.06
Isn't this a WWII story? Being forced to choose between family members or between a friend and an unknown? And the answer is that you refuse the evil logic. You refuse to make the choice because the moment you choose you're partaking of the enemy's sick logic of how to weigh human lives. What makes us US and them THEM is that we at least try not to do that, even if we often come short. You have to at least try to believe that it's impossible to weigh people like that.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:07 / 24.09.06
Dovetailed- What would Jesus do?

He'd refuse to play. Just like in the wilderness.
 
 
Evil Scientist
16:25 / 24.09.06
The question is pointless in my case. The devil'd back away muttering "Sorry boss.".
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:27 / 24.09.06
Besides, anyone who's seen Sophie's Choice knows what happens here. You chose to save the million, at which point the Devil kills the million and leaves you with a loved one who knows you chose to kill hir.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:36 / 24.09.06
All right, fine. The devil offers you a choice: He will ensure that you are wealthy and attractive for the rest of your life, but he will smash all the joints in your legs and feet annually with a rock; or, he will rescue a single small child in a primitive village in the Sudan from death by hunger.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:36 / 24.09.06
I'm already wealthy and attractive, so I think I'll let him save the tiny child.
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
18:01 / 24.09.06
Dovetailed- What would Jesus do?

He'd refuse to play. Just like in the wilderness.


I guess Jesus loves everyone the most, so He can open the "one" envelope and by doing so redeem all humanity. For surely He rocketh.

So; leaving the Devil aside and moving to a variant on an old theme, can God create a moral problem so complex that Ze cannot solve it?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
18:04 / 24.09.06
I believe we are God.

Only you know the solution to your own poblems.

("SHUT UP GAIMAN!" - self-debasing joke)
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
18:24 / 24.09.06
Aha! That child grows up to be a heinous dictator. Haus, you have been pwned by the devil.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:30 / 24.09.06
Dude, Africa. I'm a westerner. Do I, seriously, deep down, care?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
18:33 / 24.09.06
Do you think you should?

 
 
Quantum
21:11 / 24.09.06
I love the devil, so I'd choose the million envelope, watch him kill himself with a tiny tear in my eye, sell the million lives on ebay and retire to hell as it's immortal lord and master in perpetuity. Then I'd cut a deal with Evil Scientist.
 
  

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