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Bioshock

 
  

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invisible_al
16:13 / 22.09.06
14 minutes developer demo of Bioshock

An underwater drowned city in chaos, giant hulking armoured divers, creepy little girls with syringes, 1940's genetic modification, amazing AI, all from the people who created System Shock 2 and Thief: the dark project.

Oooooh in a word I am so looking forward to this comming out, *sigh* only 9 months to wait.
 
 
Triplets
19:29 / 22.09.06
Hey Humprey Bogart, how old are you in that video? 15? Wow.
 
 
Sylvia
09:06 / 23.09.06
I came, I saw, I fell in love...and that was with the early screen-shots. This pretty much sealed the deal, not that there was any doubt I'd be buying it.

I'm terribly excited. Looking Glass was one of the finest gaming companies ever in my opinion, and I want to see how Irrational's "spiritual sucessor" to System Shock 2 holds up to the legacy.

Geeze, those water effects are tasty. I like how the entire place is leaking, it lends the game a unique atmosphere right away. I also can't wait to see how the AI will turn out - that's where the real innovation will be in this game, I think.
 
 
charrellz
23:04 / 23.09.06
I'm damn near foaming at the mouth waiting for this one. I think what caught me most off guard in the video was the bit after the camera sees him. He goes up to the security panel and I thought "Oh boy, we get to see the hacking system for this game, I wonder what simple yet sophisticated method they've devised this time" and then he just throws a switch.

BRILLIANT!
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:38 / 24.09.06
I am all about letting AI fight each other so I can save ammo.

This is going to be the best game of the decade.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
10:25 / 25.09.06
I'm going to have to upgrade my bloody PC again, aren't I?

I'm beginning to think the 360 might just be a good deal.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:19 / 25.09.06
Whoah. That looks sweeet. The "choice" aspects of it really appeal to me, too, being the Deus Ex freak I am.

Loved the shadow effects, too... nothing that new technically, as far as I can tell, but the setup's great- the scene with the Big Daddy approaching from the right, untikl his shadow fills the entire corridor.

Yeah. This is gonna rock.
 
 
invisible_al
09:44 / 26.09.06
I've just been working my way through a bunch of threads at the Through The Looking Glass Forums and came across this thread from Ken Levine where he responds to comments on the demo.

Oh two random facts, the research system in the game will be based around taking photographs ala Beyond Good and Evil and that 40's song that was playing in the demo is 'If I didn't care' by the Ink Spots, the same people who did 'Maybe' used in intro the Fallout. Damm are the stars right here or what?
 
 
Cloned Christ on a HoverDonkey
21:40 / 27.09.06
Just read an article on this game in Edge, but not had a chance to view the trailer yet.

My new spangly PC arrives in a week or so and I'm rabid with anticipation for this game to hit the streets. Soooo, many excellent games due out next year: S.T.A.L.K.E.R., UT2007, Bioshock, Spore... the list goes on.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:41 / 28.09.06
I'm not holding my breath for S.T.A.L.K.E.R., but I'm definitely gona buy it when it finally shows up.
 
 
Mouse
14:08 / 28.09.06
Stalker's been due next year for years. I think my interest in it is waning.
 
 
invisible_al
18:57 / 28.09.06
And a proper trailer to whet your appitites some more. It's a pre-rendered trailer but mmmm taste that atmosphere and those Art Deco stylings.

Damm I'm such an Irrational fanboy .
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:32 / 28.09.06
Two Observations:

1) So, um, what's the deal with the character in the trailer trying to kill that little girl? Is little-girl-killing going to be a major gameplay feature?

2) WU-TANG KILLER BEE ATTACK!
 
 
invisible_al
20:46 / 28.09.06
It's pointing out what happens when you play a character who's 'lost their humanity' after all if you want cheap Adam (the juice that everything works off in Rapture) then you can just wack the little girls and steal their stuff, if you can fight off the Big Daddies. Depends if you want the moral quarms of abusing someone who's already been abused in the name of commerce.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
21:22 / 28.09.06
Still, and I hate to go all Jack Thompson on y'all, it does creep me out that the player is allowed to kill little girls- even encouraged by the Adam that can be collected. There are no children in the Grand Theft Auto games for a reason y'know. It worries me that I may become unwilling to play through what otherwise looks like a great game because all the child-killing (by NPCs like in the gameplay video) will disturb the fuck out of me.
 
 
Sylvia
08:17 / 29.09.06
Just a heads up, there's a high-res trailer downloadable here.

Still, and I hate to go all Jack Thompson on y'all, it does creep me out that the player is allowed to kill little girls- even encouraged by the Adam that can be collected.

Kind of. If you befriend them they'll get you Adam willingly. You can also apparently get a type of adam-power that makes them believe YOU'RE a big daddy and they'll hand over the Adam in a state of delusion. Both non-violent solutions to Adam harvesting.

I'll admit I was instantly uncomfortable myself once I saw the little girl dragged out of her hidey-hole and the POV character swinging his wrench in prepare for a kill. The inclusion of children IS a big taboo they're breaking. Rockstar has always said it won’t include children in its games. Fable wanted to do it, but had it cut out during production. I think Irrational’s the first game to insert relatively realistic-looking children into a world where you can attack them. It’s risky.

At the same time, I admire the fact that Irrational seems to be dedicated to bringing us a troubling, morally conflicted world in an intelligent manner. It has the guts to explore this stuff in a more honest way than, say, GTA or most violent games that don’t have the verisimilitude Bioshock seems to be aiming for.

What I’m really looking forward to is exploring morality. Many of the monsters are also victims. I think Bioshock is using that to simulate moral choices without doing any handholding. “Brain the little girl with the wrench” it implies, “But we’re not going to pretend that it's clean or easy. In fact, we're going to make the event emotionally wrenching and awful.” I really like it when a PC’s decision to kill something is awful and frightening and unsexy, partly because that kind of portrayal happens so little in games.

I’m taking this from the various trailers and interviews, of course, so the final gameplay may be different than what I’ve extrapolated here. But I hope not.

Also, BEE ARM. Jesus! The cries of agony, and that was from the man INJECTING it into himself. I was worried the adam-powers would just be a rehash of SS2’s old psychic powers kit, but they proved me wrong. They look wonderfully exciting.

It worries me that I may become unwilling to play through what otherwise looks like a great game because all the child-killing (by NPCs like in the gameplay video) will disturb the fuck out of me.

From what I can tell, they want to give you as flexible a solution path as they can. I KNOW you can go through the entire game without laying a finger on any of the little girls. Nearly everyone else is just as exploited as they are, too. The game seems designed to remind you that that maniac charging at you used to be someone's wife or husband, the thing in the clunky wetsuit was someone's sister or brother. (And these are the ones that could afford Adam. Apparently, we eventually get to see the lives of the city’s underclass. Rapture was one of THOSE ‘utopias’)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:45 / 29.09.06
Yes, from what I've read the whole reason for the inclusion of the little girls was to explore the morality of your choices. Knowing the way I usually play games, I envisage myself trying not to kill them, then killing one by accident and feeling awful about it for ages.
 
 
Mouse
13:01 / 29.09.06
Or killing one, expecting to feel bad, getting a queer thrill from it, and running amok through the entire complex in a hedonistic bloodbath that spills over into reality!

Duh-duh-DUHH!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:52 / 29.09.06
No, really, I still haven't forgiven myself for accidentally killing a Jawa in Star Wars: Battlefront. And that was AGES ago.
 
 
Mouse
14:58 / 29.09.06
(makes me think of the time I was trying to get a civilian to cooperate in SWAT 4 and had run out of nonlethal ammo. I knew that shooting bad guys in the leg makes them more likely to give up, so I tried that on the nurse and killed him. I quit the game and haven't had the nerve to play it again since, and that was well over 6 months ago)
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:04 / 29.09.06
Considering that Rapture has been abandoned for a while what are the odds that the Little Sisters ARE children?

I wonder if there is some explanation in game about how they appear childlike due to genetic whatsits so they can fit in tunnels better or something, to avoid the allegations of a "child killing trainer"
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:33 / 29.09.06
They're hugely unlikely to be actual human children. The setting doesn't seem to allow for it.

Still, and I hate to go all Jack Thompson on y'all, it does creep me out that the player is allowed to kill little girls- even encouraged by the Adam that can be collected. There are no children in the Grand Theft Auto games for a reason y'know.

Why is portraying the killing of children worse than portraying the killing of adults? Arguments about the vague concept of innocence will be disregarded on sight.
 
 
Sylvia
18:03 / 29.09.06
I wonder if there is some explanation in game about how they appear childlike due to genetic whatsits so they can fit in tunnels better or something, to avoid the allegations of a "child killing trainer"

They're hugely unlikely to be actual human children. The setting doesn't seem to allow for it.

I wondered why the children were all female. I bet Irrational has a reason for it, maybe all the male children of a certain age were killed off because of Adam somehow. They certainly ACT like regular human children put through extreme circumstances.

I'm not sure if they're the first generation born under the sea or not, it depends on how long the place has been abandoned.
 
 
rising and revolving
18:28 / 29.09.06
Killing prostitutes in GTA is a moral choice too, entirely in the users hands etc etc. However, this doesn't change

1) The USA making an enourmous fuss about it (and, incidently, making it a whole bunch harder for the rest of us to make games that address adult themes)

2) These interactions do not arise from emergent properties. They're designed into the game, and the game provides rewards (cash or ADAM) for performing the actions. Claiming "It's merely the users choice, we didn't do nuffin," was bollocks with GTA, and it's bollocks here.

The shit will hit the fan, and in a major way - I guarentees it. Although the sci-fi setting will help to dismantle the tension a little.
 
 
Sylvia
20:43 / 29.09.06
These interactions do not arise from emergent properties. They're designed into the game, and the game provides rewards (cash or ADAM) for performing the actions. Claiming "It's merely the users choice, we didn't do nuffin," was bollocks with GTA, and it's bollocks here.

You're right, it IS a lousy excuse (and I always hated it when Rockstar used it). The fact that disturbing choices are included in the game is already an incentive to try them to see how efficiently they work. I haven't read anything from Irrational using “it’s not that our content is dark, it’s the player choosing to use that dark content” in order to excuse anything in Bioshock though.

I think the games present crime and consequences in significantly different environments too. GTA has a police-rating meter showing what you can get away with that can be made to go back down to a “safe” level. It’s a necessary but somewhat artificial way to control the flow of the gameplay. Bioshock appears to be about asking how you’ll act to survive with no authority to check you, only fellow civilian characters’ reactions to help decide what you want to do. I think Bioshock will allow for a more realistic exploration of taboo-breaking than GTA, especially in that it presents a far-fetched but logical reason why a lawless environment where you can act with impunity exists. It’s a fantastic setting but seems to hold a lot of verisimilitude.

...Not that I think all of this will help the game if a media blitz about the new CHILD-MURDER-SHOOTER called BIOSHOCK hits the news. In fact I expect it'll make things worse. Hopefully it would just end up boosting sales, like the furor over GTA did.


(Dear lord, the game hasn’t even come out yet and I’m writing pages worth in a single thread. God knows what my word count will be once it actually comes out.)
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:46 / 29.09.06
I would guess it will be 3 Sylvia

"Way Fucking Cool"
 
 
Sylvia
20:53 / 29.09.06
Oh Elijah, you've giving me too much credit. It's going to be more of a single consonant-mush slur.

"Hhhgagaasfsogoodasdlkjasd!"
 
 
Sylvia
16:44 / 05.10.06
Pertinent to this discussion, the big Looking Glass/Irrational fansite Through The Looking Glass did an interview with Ken Levine here.

He goes into the function of morality in Bioshock and what he's trying to do with it. He also talks about what scares HIM the most in life: ideology taken to extremes. Which is interesting because you can see that theme again and again in his games (Thief, System Shock, etc...) It's rare that you get that kind of very personal stamp on a game from a single designer.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:21 / 31.05.07
Loads of new Bioshock footage.
I'm getting less and less bothered about this game. The design and atmosphere is perfect of course, but I don't see much, if anything, in the gameplay footage I've seen so far that indicates this will be anything more than a standard shooter apart from the pretty level design. Maybe the guy playing the game in the video is doing it the 'beat to death with a wrench first, ask questions later' way, but I don't see any of the hard moral choices Irrational talked about, just a lot of running and gunning.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:01 / 13.08.07
The demo's out on the Xbox Live Marketplace, for those few 360 owners hereabouts who've got their consoles online.

And fuck me, if it's not the most astonishing-looking game of this generation so far. *Finally* something that has all of the technically whizz-bangery that we've been promised, without the drawbacks - slowdown, screen-tearing, glitching, clipping issues - that have plagued most other games on the 360.

The opening section - I don't think this constitutes a spoiler, by any stretch, given that everybody reading this thread already knows that the whole game takes place in an underwater city - where you're floating in the sea, fire spreading around you, I swear, I thought it was pre-rendered video at first and didn't quite believe that it wasn't until I moved the analogue stick to try looking around in real-time. You've never seen videogame water this realistic.

And then, moving into the entrance of the city and being taken on a trip to the welcoming area in a bathysphere - as far as looks and sound go, this sets the target for every game that follows.

To play? No idea, really. Spent ten or fifteen minutes with it, got the first plasmid power and the first firearm, then quit out of it. Don't want to spoil the full game for myself. But in terms of sheer atmosphere, it's magnificent.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
23:06 / 13.08.07
This thing is so far out of my PC system specs that it makes me want to cry. Seriously. I want to play it SO BAD but I can't afford an XBox and upgrading my PC to spec would cost MORE than an XBox at this point. ARRRRGH.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:09 / 14.08.07
Someone's promised me a promo copy of the 360 version. But I have no idea whether I'll be able to stop myself buying it. If the previews, videos and reviews are anything to go by this could easily be the game of the fucking year.
 
 
Thorn Davis
07:42 / 14.08.07
The only thing that puts me off about this game is whether I'll be able to play it for more than 15 minutes at a time without needing a bathroom break. Drip drip drip. Eight times I headed for the door during Titanic. It's a living nightmare.

Other than that, I'm pretty excited. I can kind of relate to the comment above about how some of the gameplay videos make it look like a generic shooter, but it would be perfectly possible to create a Deus Ex gameplay video that made it look pretty standard run and gun. The intelligence with which the development team have been talking about it, and the pedigree of the game are enough to make me put my faith in it.

I'm also suprised that a couple of posts on here balk at the inclusion of the little sisters. I think it's OK for games to have content which makes you feel uncomfortable, uneasy. In fact it's kind of essential if they're going to rise above being a sort of 'flashy light distraction' sort of entertainment thing. Like the difference between a painting that makes your jaw drop, and one that looks OK on a birthday card. Anyway. Bioshock. Looking forward to it.
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
12:25 / 14.08.07
This chap has done a full capture of the demo for the Xbox 360. I must say, this looks phenomenal, and might just be the tipping point for me to suck it up and get a 360.
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
16:18 / 14.08.07
Well, I've learned a lot today, reading Looking Glass forum posts, watching gameplay demos and googling for 'Randian utopia'. I'm fascinated.

Does anyone know of any other games that involve exploration of these kind of art-deco fallen utopias? Or even this kind of exploration, period. It might be a while before I can afford a 360 y'see. I'm on an old-school xBox, so any games that work for them would be awesome.
 
  

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