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A Very British Police State?

 
  

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Supersister
16:08 / 14.09.06
In terms of criminality, I'm unsure of how the government is outlawing any of our basic rights (free speech/right to protest).

In terms of basic rights, so far detaining people without trial, inferring guilt from silence or non-action, limiting trial by jury, extraditing suspects to be tortured, encouraging and in some cases imposing a duty on citizens to report one another, imposing any imaginable restriction on the liberty of any person on the basis only of probability of guilt (ASBOs), criminalising children and using our pensions to fund acts of international aggression are a few that spring immediately to mind. The right to protest has also been eroded, with increased powers of stop and search, increased restrictions on public gathering and legislation outlawing incitement to commit crime, ie. words.

In addition, I think people are apathetic about the protesting because, as any teenager knows, all politicians are the same, they tell lies and they are puppets, so why bother? This apathy is planted and carefully nurtured to support the present dysfunction.

But the actual education mainly consisted of giving me the tools and knowledge to survive in the modern world.

A world created by those so generously siphoning you a tiny portion of the tools and knowledge needed to survive it, on a strictly need to know basis. The amount of information available has exploded as whole libraries are housed in little boxes, yet most of it is strictly controlled on the grounds that we don't know what's good for us and we'll only hurt ourselves, there, there, have a tax credit. The media do engage in productive debate and I agree, recently they have tackled the Government over their insane race agenda but what I see is a possible regime change on the way, that's all. It's all part of the show.

When I used the word profit I didn't mean in the accounting sense. If we're talking utopia I'm coming down in favour of money-free, some kind of bartering economy, with timebanks etc. With communications as they are, assuming we can avoid environmental catastrophe, I can see that being possible within my lifetime. I guess when I used the word profit I meant the true value. Everything is so skew-whiff right now you can work your arse off killing yourself for hours on minimum wage or work for 2 hours a day for loadsamoney. It don't make sense, I'd like to see things ascribed more representative values. Why do we undervalue universal healthcare, for example? It benefits us all.

I agree that stop and serach is common, especially where I live, near the East London mosque. Many also disappear, though of course since they don't hold British passports no-one cares. They are nobodies. A rich economy doesn't exist in isolation, it's a fiction, it feeds off the poverty of other poorer places. There are invisible masses all around us with no rights and we are so blinded by the telly we just fall over them and carry on.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
17:28 / 14.09.06
I'm a US Citizen in Los Angeles where, as you may know, there is a major MAJOR problem with drugs and gangs. Now, the problem is that since drugs are both prohibited AND in high demand, this means that only violent criminals profit from the extremely lucrative recreational drug trade. Naturally, this leads to the rise in very powerful criminal organizations and gives the gangs a steady source of (lots and lots) of income to buy stuff like jewelry, cars and really deadly weapons.

Anyway, our government's best solution to the problem hasn't been to decriminalize and regulate the trade of recrational pharmaceuticals to take the profits out of the hands of the gangs and syndicates or even to put money into treatment centers to reduce demand. Instead, they've increased wasteful spending on ineffective sting operations and law enforcement, and passed a whole lot of laws giving the police the right to pretty much invide citizen's privacy. Laws like the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act that is now rarely used against the Mafia (as it was intended) and instead is used for things like shutting down bookstores for selling "offensive" material.

I know there is a drug problem in England, but has it been used in much the same way to lay the groundwork for a "kindler gentler" sort of nominally benign police state like the one here in the USA?
 
 
Fist Fun
12:44 / 18.09.06
"A rich economy doesn't exist in isolation, it's a fiction, it feeds off the poverty of other poorer places. There are invisible masses all around us with no rights and we are so blinded by the telly we just fall over them and carry on."

For me I count myself very, very lucky to live in a rich, free land with so many opportunities and freedoms for all. It would be nice if every human being had access to freedom and wealth. I don't think a barter system is going to provide this though. I think this would bring massive poverty.

I think the system of democracy, education, work, trade, justice is, overall, pretty damn great... but, yeah, I see what you mean about that trade relying on the sweat of poor countries. I suppose free, fair trade with common international standards could help that.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:43 / 19.09.06
People's thoughts and ideas are manipulated from an early age, they are programmed by state-controlled education and the media to conform and to fear losing their homes or their income or being declared criminal or insane.

Only the Matrix Warriors can save us now!

Perhaps I am being blind but I have not experienced this onslaught of media manipulation designed to terrify me into conformity. But then I don't watch "Tow the line or we'll declare you insane!" (recently renamed as "My Hero").

Could you give us some examples please?

My point is that ordinary, or less wealthy, people are indeed passive. They do ignore the problems around them or wait simply to pay lip service to the next alternative presented to them from above, which in reality is no more than the exact same thing with a 'new! improved!' packaging, or this season's colours.

Is there evidence to show that there is a correlation between level of wealth and level of political activism? I have to say I dislike this presentation of the majority of the public as an "idiot herd" (not your words I know). Whilst I certainly think many people could stand to be more actively involved in society I think that painting a picture of drones brainwashed into towing the party line is not fair or, indeed, acurate. Backing this up with facts would be appreciated.

I don't believe we are anywhere near being a police state (in the classical sense). However I do think there are a wide variety of concerns about the level to which our civil liberties are being compromised, erroded and otherwise stripped in an erronious attempt to protect the country.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:16 / 19.09.06
My point is that ordinary, or less wealthy, people are indeed passive. They do ignore the problems around them or wait simply to pay lip service to the next alternative presented to them from above, which in reality is no more than the exact same thing with a 'new! improved!' packaging, or this season's colours.

I'm at a college with the kids of major businessmen and politicians who are absolutely rolling in money, and your description fits many of them perfectly. So, I think you need to rethink your attributing this attitude simply to poor people.

I think what you mean to say is that if your economic status puts you very far out of the running, either way at the bottom or way at the top, then the world outside your immediately available and experiential one becomes non-existent, non-meaningful.

That is: if you're running a really bad-paying menial job and trying to bring up three kids, it's very hard to care about suffering in Africa or bad laws because you probably don't have the free time, space or reading to understand it apart from as a distant abstract. Likewise, if Daddy spoons you cars and money and big flats just like that, and this is the world you've been brought up in and which all your friends and family inhabit, then the chances are that the experience of both the character running the menial job and the third-world famine victims are not going to be something you understand at all, not without seriously breaking contact with your safe-zone. Which none of us likes to do, even though we might think so...
 
  

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