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Barbe-flirting

  
  

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Ganesh
21:32 / 03.09.06
This has been much debated, this weekend, over a number of threads. I'm keen to try to tie the discussion together in one place, and I'll try to link the salient bits and pieces here.

Kali barbecrushed Dead Megatron, the two having been expressing their mutual appreciation in other threads. A sometimes-snarky discussion followed, in which various posters talked about their response to this flirtation. I'm going to pick out those that I think are key to that discussion, and perhaps a broader examination of the phenomenon of cyber-flirting in general. It's likely that I've missed other contributions of equal or greater relevance, so feel free to add links here.

Nina:
Yeah there's something wrong with it, it's bullshit. I'm totally not down with people purely defining themselves through sex and flirting and making it the dominant discourse of their lives. But you know if you want to do that online you don't have to make it something that everyone's a party to because like their are chatrooms, emails, all kinds of shit. So you know for me inhabiting that definition on a message board is really about showing off and show offs have always just fucked me off.

By the way from now on if I don't feel like hearing it I'm just totally going to whack you on ignore. It's an experience.

Kali:
Point taken. But while the flirting has been risque, I hardly think it's become graphic.

I know this isn't a dating board. I've never dated anybody on this board; that isn't what I come here for, but I am pleased when I do get a chance to flirt with someone here as I would in real life.

Me:
Not being privy to the larger part of these people's lives, I'm personally somewhat reluctant to make assumptions about their "dominant discourse" based on a few posts of jokey flirting on an online message board. Yes, it's bullshit (although probably not completely); yes, it's arguably showy-offy.

And? I'm not really seeing where the harm lies.

But, as you say, you dislike what you dislike, and you have the option to avoid threads by these people, or even avoid their posting altogether. Avoiding assumptions about the basis on which they live their lives would be good too.

Flyboy:
Well, if Kali ever talked about anything else on the board, that would be easy, but she expresses her preferences in relation to television and music strictly within the confines of references to fancying people, feeling a bit naughty, also. So it's not that easy to know which threads to avoid, nor should it necessarily be the responsibility of the people who find the incessant nature of it a little... too much. However, that's not really the issue here. The issue isn't that people shouldn't flirt, it's that they shouldn't flirt with Dead Megatron, the wankstain who types like a man (barely).

Mister Disco:
This is, unfortunately, not a crush post, but a comment on the flirtation which I thought might go here, since it's here that the discussion overflowed most recently. I don't know where else to make this comment, but if someone would like me to move it to a more appropriate forum, I'm happy to.

Kali and DM, the reason so many people are finding your flirting uncomfortable is not because you're flirting per se. It makes me uncomfortable because I get the feeling that you both enjoy the rush of being explicitly sexual in a quasi-public space. When you address each other privately in a public thread, you make the rest of us feel like we're forced to listen in on a private conversation. The enjoyment you seem to get out of this makes me feel that you're both being exhibitionists here. Exhibitionism turns any reader into a voyeur -- at least, I feel like a voyeur when I read your posts and find myself having to look at Betty Page pics. It feels like you're smearing textual/sexual juice all over my face -- without my having asked for it. So it's not offensive, exactly, but you're making people feel icky, and uncomfortable.

And for chrissakes, so many people have gotten together on Barbelith it's not funny. If you want to insert private jokes directed at Someone Special into your psts, try being subtle like everyone else. That can also be enjoyable.

GGM:
It feels to me analagous to discussions I've known involving public BDSM play, specifically the extent to which such play can assume consent of those in the environment.

Me (again):
I'd agree with a good proportion of that, Disco, although I was probably more bored than uncomfortably voyeuristic; reading other people's online flirtation is a little like listening to extended accounts of other people's dreams - largely meaningless, and somewhat tedious. Having said which, my eyerolleyness was laced with a quaint sort of nostalgia, because the phenomenon of Kali and flirtation reminded me of Nexus days of yore. Weirdly, I think this nostalgia-tickling made me slightly more tolerant than I would've been otherwise.

Disco (again):
Absolutely... hasn't someone already mentioned Jessica Rabbit? It made me remember the old days too, but not in a good way -- in a "Wow, this was what I used to put up with all the time and secretly resent" way. Which proves another point I have made elsewhere: Barbelith is now far more generally 'conscious' of gender and sexuality politics than it once was. Plus, Jessica Rabbit was a joke suit, let's not forget.
...
To be sure. I'm not saying exhibitionistic flirting, or sexy talk, is always inappropriate -- but maybe I'd like to see readers given the opportunity to decide to particiapte or not. Like, a thread entitled "DM and Kali are going to make with the heavy breathing: spectators welcome" would at least give fair warning. And denaturalise it. Which might just ruin the fun, but hey, them's the breaks.

Toksik (pointing out that I'd been doing some flirtation of my own):
i was more wondering what folks who are not entirely pleased by DM and kali's mutual sexy-party talk thought of other flirters, and if they get the quease with as much ease when folks they like a little more are waving their virtuals about the place.

.Trampetunia:
While I'm not offended by any of the 'Dead Kali' stuff, I share the feeling of 'ick' somewhat.

It's a bit strange, because I like to flirt, and I often like to see/read other people flirting. I think it's a healthy, fun, funny etc. way for people to interact. I mean, this thread is essentially devoted to flirting (yeah, declaring a crush isn't the subtlest flirt, but it still is a flirt..).

So hard to say why (or even work out why) the Dead Kali stuff icks my mind, but I think it's something to do with the lack of subtlety. It's like watching a couple of drunk people joking about getting it on when you know that they will never get it on because they don't actually fancy each other that much. It smells somewhat of an attempt at flirting, or even a joke about flirting; which isn't actually flirting, but a grotesque.

It's like watching some z-list actors being told 'imporvise! just act sexy' and the fumbled flashing of flesh and blatant comments that end up as channel 5 porn, rather than an erotic masterpiece...

Mordant:
It's funny... Like I said elsewhere, Megsie/Kali was driving me round the bend (sorry DM and Kali! I don't want to harsh on you guys but it's true), but I had a hard time analysing why that should be when I find other flirtations either neutral or actively pleasant to read.

I guess there are a lot of things going on with DM/K that bother me. For one, it's so... vanilla. You know? Very het, very straight... eh, it's hard to articulate, but you know how there's a certain way that heterosexual attraction supposed to go, a specific pattern of interrelation, which I personally feel very alienated from/by (I can only imagine how honked off a queer person might get with it). And I'd sort of got used to not seeing it too much on the Barb, and then when I do see it it's really eye-pokey.

For another--and I feel a bit bad saying this, but I'm going to anyway--you know that thing some women feel compelled to do, where they seek validation from male sexual attention? Kali, I kind of feel like you do that. I'm no shrink and I don't know you very well yet, but that's definately the impression I get from your posting style. And I feel a real pang when I see it. Even thought the flirty posts are made in fun, I sort of see the spectre of this need behind them... I dunno, I might be talking shit.

Ack. I'm rubbish at communicating this stuff. Hope that made at least a bit of sense.

So. Lots of food for thought there. Any other responses to this instance of flirting, or flirting on Barbelith more generally?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
22:40 / 03.09.06
Soz, I tried to keep this short, but...

I think as far as I'm concerned I stand by my serious statement in the 'Barbe-crush 2006' thread:

I suppose, Kali, it's about balance. On the one hand people getting together can be beautiful but on the other hand, this isn't a dating board.

I guess people get pissed off when it becomes to overt, graphic, and prominent. I mean, this is a public space, non?

Indeed, last night I couldn't help find all the spirally and meta-context type stuff surrounding / being born out of the DM-Kali flirting scenario quite funny and highly intriguing, really. Although I was sad people were being offended and annoyed, of course. I just didn't fully understand why people were sooo annoyed.

And I don't mean I was laughing at anyone; or if I was, it was at myself. Honestly, I was laughing and trying to laugh with everyone; or at least I hope(d) I was.

The reason for my laissez-faire interpretation of the flirting events of yesterday (etc) is that it all seemed to be about how we each perceived each other's intentions towards one another. Nobody was really doing anything horribly wrong. People were being inconsiderate, on all sides, maybe; but that was about it, as far as I could see.

It seemed to me that I couldn't possibly know what DM and Kali were getting up to in PM's or in-threads, both as a flirty couple and as individuals. Indeed, I can maybe gleam certain things from their posts and the two threads they were flirting in last night, but I have no real idea how dark, real, safe, or whatever their fantasies, words, and real life actions (etc) actually are or will/would be.

I didn't know about the discussion Haus brought up in the 'Moderation Requests' thread, which had originally taken place in the 'The High Society or, On Music and Race thread about two months ago. Likewise, I still have no idea how serious Kali's 'Laura Palmer' fantasy is, either; etc, etc. There are lots of factors that are unknown or a mystery to me.

So, to perceive whether I can trust someone, I always try to keep in mind that I'm always making a leap of faith in one direction or another: trust them, don't trust them, keep an open mind, maybe even ask them? etc.

Indeed, as far as properly meeting people in RL that I've met online, I've only ever met one person this way; by accident. 'Twas an odd experience, but ze is a good friend now and trust is something we are still building as meatspace buddies. I mean, remember the fake Haus incident a while back and some of y'all went to the pub the night ze said ze'd be there? I was one of the ones getting jumpy and saying you shouldn't go, for fear of psychotic people with baseball bats waiting in a transit van around the corner. So yeah, I'm really concerned about the potential dangers of RL versus online for me and others, but I try to keep my concern in perspective. It's difficult, but I try.

I think also, rather importantly, I don't know the genders of many posters, or how many couples or siblings or fake suits their are posting on Barbelith. I know of a few of those who've declared they're whatever with whoever, but that's it, really. I therefore take none of my flirting around here all that seriously, but get worried sometimes that others might think I really mean it, rather than simply taking it as being just p.w paying them a genuine complement.

Therefore, another factor in last night's multi-meta-flirt was that Xoc and Ganesh are a married couple, which adds a certain unsaid barrier, a barrier that lessens the chance of online sexy with me, them and others being translated so easily to real life sexy (although, not necessarily, of course; all couples are different). Also, you probably know me well enough already to assume you'll probably never hook up with me in Real Life, anyway; unless by accident. -- paranoid, in I?

I really think the flirting between myself, Ganesh, Xoc, and others last night was pretty much in jest, although I rather liked it in other ways as well. Overall, for me, it was showing (or, I think it was trying to show) that flirting can be fun, clever, sexy, inclusive, and does not necessarily have to freak people out, even if it did freak anyone out and I'm not aware of it, yet. For surely, it was just a load of wibbly-wobbly flirting that had been triggered by a load of controversial wibbly-wobbly flirting, etc?

In conclusion, therefore, I'd like to ask why are we freaked out or annoyed by a relatively small amount of flirting on Barbelith (if anyone is freaked out or annoyed by it, that is)? Does the type of sexuality, fetish, and/or role-play involved make that much of a difference when it's kept tame? Is it them or us that are thinking dark / sad / unpleasant / unsavoury / etc thoughts? Or is it simply that too much of anything sexy puts one off one's Saturday night take-out and one's Sunday roast?

After all, DM and Kali's flirting is contained a relatively small number of posts in a couple of threads on a big multi-threaded message board, with plenty of space for everyone. As long as nobody's doing anything reckless, stupid, nasty, (etc), where's the real harm? By contributing to such threads, you're only bumping them, anyway.

Now of course, one should probably say something if one is worried, when the flirting seems to be getting out of hand or too much, or it offends one's sensibilities; and I think all of us were saying that to DM and Kali last night, but in many different ways. However, maybe we should just say so in a fashion that displays our own sensibilities openly and honestly, and politely; in such a way that it is easier translated as a polite and respectful request and not (say) as a snidey, backhanded order to (e.g) shut up and put your clothes back on. This might avoid all the potential hurt and nastiness. And if someone can't respect you when you're being polite, honest, and well meaning... Then, well... (I'm tempted to say "Screw 'em", but that would only confuse matters, eh? )
 
 
Ganesh
22:55 / 03.09.06
It occurs to me that there might be some overlap with the Barbelith: 'pro-queer', 'anti-hetero' and community thread, specifically when considering Toksik's perfectly valid question about whether the 'hetness' of the flirting has a bearing on its acceptability.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:13 / 03.09.06
In conclusion, therefore, I'd like to ask why are we freaked out or annoyed by a relatively small amount of flirting on Barbelith?

Because quite apart from being ill-mannered, it's so, so, so terribly uncool. Can you honestly not see that? This is the internet, after all. If certain standards aren't maintained, we may as well all be Bill Gates lookalikes with far less money, covered in stale milk and rancid semen.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:22 / 03.09.06
Yeah, maybe... But I don't even know what cool means anymore. Seriously. One's person's cool is another person's bucket of ice, innit?
 
 
Char Aina
23:32 / 03.09.06
i'm not so sure that was me...
that said, i do wonder about it.

as far as i am aware, flyboy would object to anyone, gay or otherwise, flirting with DM, because The issue isn't that people shouldn't flirt, it's that they shouldn't flirt with Dead Megatron, the wankstain who types like a man (barely).


perhaps that is a quote more suited to another thread, but then it does also have some relvance here in determining what makes a flirt acceptable to at least one poster.

personally i dont think the gayness should make a difference, but i am aware of a certain reticence in myself when it comes to to flirting with ladies i respect on the lith, especially when compared to my willingness to talk the telling talk with similarly placed gentlemen.

i feel like part of that may be my issue, but i do also feel some of it is a barbelith culture thing.

barbelith culture not being any one thing, i can only imagine i have gained that impression through reading some vociferous posts against heterosexual flirting.


do people think mano a mano is more barbelith?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:42 / 03.09.06
do people think mano a mano is more barbelith?

Dude, you do know that means "hand to hand," right?
 
 
Char Aina
23:48 / 03.09.06
yeah, but it sounds like Gaysex™ and is often used to mean same.

i'm pretty sure most folks know what i mean, and doubt too many will have the lynne truss twitch over it.
do you need it edited?
i can if you do.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:51 / 03.09.06
But I don't even know what cool means anymore. Seriously. One's person's cool is another person's bucket of ice, innit?

I'd define 'cool' as conducting oneself in a way that's at least halfway likely not to make one's fellow human beings embarrassed to be alive. It is not too much to ask of anyone. It's not too much to ask of Coldplay, it's not too much to ask of Tony Blair, and it certainly isn't too much to ask of anyone who posts here, semi-regularly, on Barbelith.
 
 
Char Aina
23:52 / 03.09.06
i dont think anyone who loves pete doherty like you do can make too many demands of people's cool, aunty.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:59 / 03.09.06
Alex's Great Aunt, you just want me to flirt with you again, don'tcha?

toksik: barbelith culture not being any one thing, i can only imagine i have gained that impression through reading some vociferous posts against heterosexual flirting.


do people think mano a mano is more barbelith?

Hmmm... I dunno... I suppose, personally I find it easier and less problematic to flirt with Ganesh and Xoc than flirting with a single, f-i poster: mainly because you believe I'm male, Ganesh and Xoc are a pretty strong minded and seemingly assured couple, and there's always likely to be a chance of an inherited, cultural sense of sexist male chivalry involved when a man flirts with a f-i person in any domain. i.e. in my friendship groups, I find women aren't allowed to walk home on their own in the wee hours, but men are (not saying that's right or wrong). I don't know how much of this is based on real sex-crime statistics or on a perceived set of myths about the scale of danger posed by and faced by men and/or women. In a way, it's stupid really; I mean, if I were a nutter of any demographic I could harass and/or try to stalk any member or person I wanted, male or female, and I'm not one to believe that all men are physically stronger or sexual predatory than all women, anyway. Everyone's different, as far as I can tell.

(See? now I'm worried that I've put an idea in your heads about me being a psycho or a sexist or.... "Thou dost protest too much"....or something....damn...)

Anyhoo... I suppose, also, as I have already experienced being defined on Barbelith as a heterosexual, then for some of you (I'm aware) there might be more of a chance that I mean "it" more when flirting with a f-i poster, rather than a m-poster. This concerns me sometimes, but to be honest, I'm not gonna go there right now.

All the above is probably in my head, of course. And I don't know how much of it is actually much down to Barbeculture.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
00:30 / 04.09.06
yeah, but it sounds like Gaysex™ and is often used to mean same.

Does it? Is it? Okay then, if you say so.

i'm pretty sure most folks know what i mean, and doubt too many will have the lynne truss twitch over it.
do you need it edited?
i can if you do.

The fuck?

No. I don't need it edited.

But if I personally were to accidentally misuse a foriegn or otherwise slightly abstruse phrase, and the people who read it and knew what it actually meant just sniggered at the gap in my knowedge and patted themselves on the back for their superiority, I'd think they were fucking wankers.

I don't like being pulled up on things like that much either but I'm usually okay with the people who do the pulling, because they're treating me like an equal who wants to improve her understanding rather than a dog that's learned to walk on its hind legs but can't be expected to do much else.

Sorry if that offends you.
 
 
Char Aina
00:40 / 04.09.06
wow.
i had no idea i was being such a dick.
i'm sorry, dude.

i remain entirely unoffended by your pointing out the real meaning(i think i mentioned i already knew it, yeah?) and remain entirely willing to change it if it offends your eye.

i offered to do so because i know that shit like that can be really irritating on the brain, and am quite surprised with the The fuck? response to my offer.

maybe we should start the exchnage again, hey.

as it is the threadrot is only getting worse, and this thread is still young.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
00:45 / 04.09.06
I'm sorry, man. I've got insane job stuff keeping me up and I think my perspective went to bed without me. I read a stroppy tone into your post which possibly isn't even there; I do get that kind of thing a lot, but I should know better than to assume I'm going to get it from everyone.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
00:50 / 04.09.06
Can I say "Awww...." now? 'Cus you've both just made me happy, in a non-sexy way, of course.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:28 / 04.09.06
Alex's Great Aunt, you just want me to flirt with you again, don'tcha?

You have just turned a very old lady's blood into ... into ice.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
01:48 / 04.09.06
That's cool, baby.
 
 
Olulabelle
12:44 / 04.09.06
About the flirting thing. I've talked to a couple of f-i posters about this because I was in a very odd place in my head about it for a bit.


Originally it had to do with Kali's posts specifically, because I found them very sexual and it made me feel uncomfortable, like Mordant there was a sense for me that they were born out of needing m-i affirmation. I didn't know why it was making me feel uncomfortable. I thought that perhaps it was my issue as a female and that Kali was perfectly within her rights to celebrate her sexuality (which she is) in any way she chooses and my reaction to that was my own personal problem. I kept questioning myself - that I should not be down on any female celebrating their sexuality and perhaps I was repressed and prudish.

So that was my problem with the Kali/DM particular bit of flirting; it was tied in to an already problematic personal issue which I was still trying to resolve. I felt like their flirting was creeping into many parts of the board and although this is probably not true, because of the frequent sexual nature of Kali's posts it did feel like that to me.

I am now aware that I am not the only poster feeling this way, Kali's posts are very sexual in nature for quite a lot of the time.

Regarding other flirting, I have never considered up until now that some people's flirting is acceptable where others isn't and I will have to think about it. I feel bad that I might accept one thing from some posters but feel upset by the same behaviour in others. I do notice flirting from some people but I don't think I have strong feelings about it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:06 / 04.09.06
It's interesting that a number of people have reported being squicked out by this, I feel quite shallow for just finding it boring.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
13:18 / 04.09.06
It seems an odd thing to feel bothered by, but I guess it must bother people like public displays of affection do. I have no problem with people flirting on here, it seems harmless if done in the right places, like DM's birthday thread. Obviously it won't work in more serious threads, but again, I'd rather see some flirting in a thread then completely outrageous personal attacks that still have not been apologised for.
 
 
Smoothly
13:19 / 04.09.06
It didn’t squick me at all, and I didn’t find it boring (although it was a little contrived and artless). A bit of me thought it was rather nice. I’m amazed that it’s exercised people as much as it has.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
13:42 / 04.09.06
Olulabelle, please don't feel even a little bit bad about that. It's a lot like meatspace; one flirts with those one finds attractive and / or trusts. In principle, there's nothing really wrong with flirting or not flirting, and / or being careful who you flirt with, non? Context, of course, can make this more tricky. e.g. don't flirt with the bride or groom at a wedding, unless they and you are REALLY cool.

I also have to say that I think your post, Olulabelle, was one of the most considered posts I've read on Barbelith. I think it was honest, mindful, and brave; you showed how the situation made you feel, that you question this feeling, and that you have tried to give Kali and DM an equal break.

I now know a bit more about why the DM-Kali flirt situation made you, and possibly others similar to your good self, feel a bit uncomfortable. And that's cool, I reckon. Indeed, I'd be seriously surprised if Kali took much offence at your words; they certainly don't read to me as though they're intended to purposefully insult or belittle anybody. Although, of course, Kali might disagree.e.g. She might think the following line is a bit blunt and unsettling:

I am now aware that I am not the only poster feeling this way, Kali's posts are very sexual in nature for quite a lot of the time.

But if she's honest, I reckon she'd agree that obviously some / maybe many people didn't like or share her style and behaviour recently, but that it's getting clearer to many that her intention is likely to not be to offend anyone (or at least, that how I see Kali's intentions); and more importantly, people are also starting to publicly assess and discuss their own style, behaviour, and reactions to this recent instance of flirtudrama.

Personally, I felt pretty much the same as Stevely Weaving. It was more the spikey and at times nasty responses to DM and/ or Kali that worried me, as I think I've already explained at length, here and elsewhere in one or a few of the many related threads.

I also think the question others have highlighted about what is acceptable flirting on Barbelith, is really worthy of further discussion. After all, whether we like it or not sex plays a part in social interactions of all varieties and even celibate people have to deal with it or (at the very least) it's absence in personal day to day habits and/or it's overt or subtle abundance in much of the outside world.

We all have our own boundaries, etc, and this issue is bound to come up again at some point later down the line.

So, once again, nice one, Olulabelle. (sincerely)

[And I'm sorry for skipping over a few any posts. Don't mean to be rude. I didn't get much sleep and my webfu and response time is slowing, I think...]
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
13:47 / 04.09.06
Doh! Sorry mate, I meant Susan Weaving -- I have no idea where that mistake came from. Er... Was that one of your old fic-names, maybe?

Still, either way, I'm really sorry about that. Me tired and crap.
 
 
Smoothly
14:13 / 04.09.06
Don’t worry pw. Stevely was indeed a previous incarnation. I don’t mind Steve, Stevely, Smoothly, Susan, whatever. Just don’t call me ‘Weaving’, unless you mean to affect the tone of a censorious games teacher.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
14:17 / 04.09.06
Cheers, comrade.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:38 / 04.09.06
Certainly with me, it's the "public displays of affection" thing. Though that's a bit of a misnomer*. I always feel uncomfortable about people kissing, holding hands, whatever, in public. (Though I'm guilty myself... at the time you tend to make exceptions for yourself, I find- though afterwards I tend to find myself thinking "fuck, I must have made everyone else feel really awkward and uncomfortable- must remember not to do that again". Then, of course, I find myself making exceptions for myself again...)

I don't know why, and the genders of those involved is not an issue.

PDAs, I'm not a fan of, really. Nor the electronic kind.

*"affection", I have no problems with, as that covers handshaking, hugging, "affectionate" kisses and the like. It's sexualised affection that makes me feel uncomfortable.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:50 / 05.09.06
Flirting between posters strikes me as being frankly very rife, both on board and IRL, both of which have happily fed into each other. Has this been a matter of contention before to the point of dedicating a thread to the matter? Not as far as I'm aware but would welcome a pointer at previous threads on this.

Now the flirting that has set this off is bad flirting of a rather obvious nature. Bit of an "is it art?" situation to me. Really, where objection of the less bad/obvious form doesn't exist, this comes down to a matter of quality and taste.

We may have decided to be arbiters of manner of debate, safe-space provision and so on, but are we to also be arbiters on quality and taste in expression?
 
 
Ganesh
14:05 / 05.09.06
Has this been a matter of contention before to the point of dedicating a thread to the matter? Not as far as I'm aware but would welcome a pointer at previous threads on this.

Not on this particular incarnation of Barbelith. There was certainly a fulsome discussion of 'Barbe-flirting' around the time of the spurious Jessica Rabbit suit, but that was several years ago, on the Nexus, I think.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:10 / 05.09.06
Not that I was around at the time but I gather that this was a significantly different situation involving that could be classed as invasive and obstructive.

Am I right in this?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:14 / 05.09.06
Really, where objection of the less bad/obvious form doesn't exist, this comes down to a matter of quality and taste.

Yes... and that's very much a movable feast. For example, as said already, I find a lot of flirting quite uncomfortable. But I don't find it offensive. But someone else might. Or might not. Or might find my discomfort ludicrous. It's not really something where everyone's going to come to a consensus and stop it happening. Nor would I want it to be.
 
 
Ganesh
14:16 / 05.09.06
Not that I was around at the time but I gather that this was a significantly different situation involving that could be classed as invasive and obstructive.

Am I right in this?

Not really - it's probably more a matter of degree than a significantly different situation. It was actually very similar, although there was more of it over a longer period of time, and it involved more people. Same sort of thing, though.
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:40 / 05.09.06
I think I missed this - is the problem really that there was flirting, or that a single discussion (which happened to be flirting) dominated a bunch of threads at the top of Conversation? I mean, I guess obviously one thing was compounding the other. But I enjoy a frequently flirty tone to Barbe-interactions - not that it has been much in evidence in my own posts lately, but, you know. I like to know it's there.
 
 
Ganesh
21:46 / 05.09.06
I'd do you, Jackie. So long as we kept our clothes on.

(Sorry.)

But yes, it was maybe a dozen (more?) posts over a couple of threads at the top of the Conversation, on Saturday afternoon.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
06:39 / 06.09.06
Hardly a massive impact on the board then.

I can't seem to escape this feeling that the root of any objection of the DM/Kali incident was rather more in the character rather than the act. Probably also far more exacerbated by the perpetrators than the perpetration.

Perhaps we should examine some other incidents of flirting on the board to see how that rates on the collective scratchiness meter. Or maybe it should be allowed to slide as akin to kids being unruly on a bus on a friday afternoon. It isn't killing the lith and we still get to go home and have a nice cup of tea in front of Neighbours as it were.

I think it bears mentioning that it has already been mentioned that barbelith has been looking at itself under a microscope quite consistently of late and to my mind a magnifying glass would be a healthy exchange, you still get some detail but it allows a bigger picture.

Now if it's accepted that flirting is not uncommon, in whatever form, on the boards and predominantly restricted to Conversation and fluffy threads, then maybe the discussion needs to be about quality and taste. However, I fear that that way there be dragoons.
 
 
Olulabelle
07:38 / 06.09.06
But I enjoy a frequently flirty tone to Barbe-interactions - not that it has been much in evidence in my own posts lately, but, you know. I like to know it's there.

There's quite a lot of talk of pants and the like but, mores the pity, I don't think I have ever encountered flirtatious behaviour which was directed at me.

Hmmm. Which is interesting. Maybe it is hetflirting that is fairly uncommon and therefore a surprise? The Xoc/ Ganesh flirting is so much a part of Barbelith it is un-noticable; like the colour of the forum you're posting to it's lovely but you're brain doesn't register it any more.
 
  

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