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Concept Interrogation: Multiculturalism

 
  

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Disco is My Class War
15:46 / 09.09.06
Perhaps we could go back to talking about multiculturalism, since that's the title of the thread. I've been sitting on some ideas of my own, but thought I'd not post, since the discussions was heading away from talking about 'multiculturalism' itself. Maybe I'll do so, since that avenue is looking more and more unproductive. And I'd also like to ask that people go back and read Future Perfect's comments, because I think they're important.

I can think of lots of problems with 'multicuturalism' too. But I understand it in a very different way to, say, the Daily Mail article above. (Note: not the person quoted, because I'm not even sure that's any kind of attack on 'multiculturalism' at all.) Multiculturalism as I would define it is an ideology of Keynesian welfare-state liberalism. I think this is because, as Jackie says, multiculturalism in Australia was a government policy (and I'm in Australia); but I think it's had an effect on Anglophone government policy in othr places as well, mostly the UK and US (and probably Canada?)

To begin with, I'd say multiculturalism assumes that difference is important primarily on the level of 'culture' -- and that social unrest is about cultural rather than economic difference. It also assumes, from the beginning, the existence of a social majority culture, or set of values. (Read: middle-class Anglo values). Thus, I'd argue, the discourse of multiculturalism is about tolerating the existence of non-white people, as long as they agree to be governed by those majority values (which are said to be universal) and express their difference from the 'majority' only in terms of culture: dress, language, food, religion, etc. Difference can then be packaged and commodified; all Iranian people are 'traditional' Muslims and wear 'traditional' dress; all Black people listen to hiphop; all Indigenous Australian people prefer to live in humpies and make dot paintings, etc.

So, the ideal multiculturalism permits a diversity of different cultures to co-exist in the same space. However, the displacement of difference to the field of culture means that the unequal distribution of resources can remain fundamentally unchanged, and is actually concealed. Owing to the strange oddities of global history, ie colonialism, rich white folks tend to have more capital in the first place, so they can earn and reproduce more money; non-white folks generally have less capital in the first place, so they are able to earn, and reproduce, far less capital. When the welfare state was far stronger than it is now, multiculturalist discourse had a moment of desiring to redistribute wealth, I think -- or at least, lots of funding inititatives were thought up as a way of 'evening the score'. My feeling about those various initiatives is that they merely institute competition for resources as the condition of being 'multicultural'. Cultural difference and disadvantage based on ethnicity become markers that one must prove in order to access this particular scholarship, or that particular arts grant, or that particular right. As alas says, fish in a barrel. Then it's a question of who's more 'different' or whose difference is better/more in fashion this year; who is more disadvantaged, etc.

At any rate, neoliberal economnics has mostly done away with the public aspect of that method of 'redistribution', or privatised it. Multiculturalism nowadays is often no more than a tokenistic 'celebration' of (non-threatening) cultural difference, and/or policing of cultural differences that are threatening.

I think this is expressed quite beautifully by Anis Shivani:

Multiculturalism has always only wanted disenfranchised groups to share a piece of the pie; its aim has never been to change the taste and shape and size of the pie. The peak of the multiculturalist moment was Clinton as president, calling for a national initiative on race which led not to outlawing of racial profiling but a set of feel-good recommendations by his advisory board to get to know the other. That was the sign of things to come. Economically, liberals don't even make the pretense of taking care of you anymore, but you can still have your social identity and be proud of it.

Saturn's nod said:

Mutliculturalism as I understand it means dismantling the invisible/unmarked "white" culture, by getting each person to engage from an awareness of what their culture consists of, whether that's particular ways of knowing, particular ways of using language, or their family's traditional rituals like roast dinners or christmas trees. No two families in the whole world have quite the same rules about what makes something clean, or dirty, or how to celebrate a special occasion. Once we're honest about that we can stop trying to pretend that there is a monoculture.

That's weird, because I haven't heard 'multiculturalism' defined in that way, and I have more sympathy for a politics that wants to undo any conception of any kind of 'monoculture' than what I think of when i think of multiculturalism. But then, that's cuz I live in Australia and it's been government policy here. At the same time, I think what you're saying still displaces the role of economic distribution of wealth and its relation to ethnicity and neocolonialism, and treats value as if it's only about culture.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
15:52 / 09.09.06
And I just caught this in Saturn's Nod's last post, which made me want to comment, too:

If everyone can read, write and speak in their own voice, we can create the kind of social mobility which allows a genuine choice of neighbourhood.

But don't you see, that system already exists. At the moment, the choices a person has about where they live are govened by the amount of cash they have, and, to a degree, the accrual of cash means assimilating to white middle-classness. (Which is where class differences come in: poor Anglo people have to assimilate to class-based values and behaviour if they want to succeed too. They can pass for white, is the thing.) Capitalism still wins. Supposedly, 'everyone' can choose to succeed; social mobility is supposedly accessible for 'everyone'. We know that it's not. But doesn't the very meaning of "social mobility" depends on there always being a poor neighbourhood and a rich neighbourhood, and climbing a competitive ladder to get there?
 
 
Lurid Archive
16:18 / 09.09.06
Mister Disco is right to want to talk more directly about the topic, but I'll just make a few comments.

But I don’t think you really think that the idea that there are existing structures of inequality across pretty much every aspect of our lives is a faulty assumption – do you? - Flyboy

Not at all - existing structures of inequality permeate all our relations. Also, I think that your summary of where I am coming from is pretty generous, and I do take seriously the charge that I am possibly facilitating unpleasant viewpoints. I still think there is value in trying to be precise when talking about privilege, in part because I think that effective strategies really need to address the complexity of some of these issues.

Having said that, I think I may go too far in talking up the complexity, as I was reminded yesterday when a couple of fellow academics made some jaw clenchingly awful sexist remarks. And I realise that there is less at stake for me in these discussions than for others; I'd like to balance being able to post (and maybe be told that I am being defensive, which is fair enough) with not making this space too uncomfortable for others.

I'm also in agreement with Mister Disco above, which is another reason for a certain amount of resistance on my part, that certain conceptions of multiculturalism and strategies for fighting prejudice leave out important aspects of the problem. Like the economic angle. And I think it is a plausible concern that overly simplistic conceptions of privilege can be hijacked - like Horowitz, but also the liberal politics and neo-liberal economics that Mister Disco refers to. I'm bothered about the way Blair could claim that we bombed Afghanistan for feminism.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:30 / 09.09.06
All interesting points, Mr Disco.

I started this thread because of the way that something called "Multiculturalism" (usually pronounced in a mocking fashion) is always being bashed by right-wingers in the British press (and, increasingly, the street).

I've been trying to work out what they actually mean by it, and I've decided that it doesn't mean anything concrete: it's used as a strawman to bash, but also something more than that: the abstract, big-word nature of the term is used to ridicule it as a "nonsense-word", whilst also being used to stand for a whole range of complicated ideas and theories, which the speaker can pretend to be refuting by laughing at/saying they disagree with the word.

It's increasingly becoming a term that the right can slag off to avoid asking difficult questions, whilst appearing to do just that- just like "political correctness" can mean health and safety laws about swings, or race hate laws, or the unpopularity of shitty Carry On films, depending on what the speaker wants, and thus make those individual and complex issues appear to form one evil monolith, "multiculturalism" means everything the speaker and his sympathisers dislike about the world- it means, to them, the Mosque being built near their house, or the travellers staying in a field nearby, or the fact that kids are allowed to wear a Hijab to school. Again, it makes each separate, complex issue- all of which are difficult for all involved but especially for the minorities- appear to be an interconnected monoloith, and it makes it look as though the status-quo is pursuing a policy biased in the favour of minorities- which it quite obviously isn't: see Disco's post above.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:09 / 06.10.06
Jack Straw has written a column in a newspaper in Blackburn asking that women who wear the niqab consider de-veiling when they come to his surgery because a conversation with someone 'face to face' has 'greater value'. He called wearing the veil, "such a visible statement of separation and of difference".

On Newsnight they called it a blow for multicuturalism.

Here is The Guardian article about it.

I think it's a pretty odd thing to say because he must know it's not going make muslim women who do wear the niqab suddenly take it off, they're not going to go, "We are taking off this crucial symbol of our religion so that Jack Straw can see if we are smiling". So he must have said it for other reasons, maybe he really does believe it separates communities and wants to debate that.

It's not an accidental comment anyway.

So does the fact that he has chosen to addresss this count as a blow for multculturalism?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:00 / 06.10.06
Well, first things first, he's talking balls. Plenty of people have conversations wearing that garment all the time- it's eye contact and voice tones that are most important. The eyes are shown and the material is designed to be thin enough to let the voice pass through. He means it makes it hard for him because he's not used to it...

So he must have said it for other reasons, maybe he really does believe it separates communities and wants to debate that.

I'm nopt sure, you know. I think he's really just being dick- he's saying that people should adapt to his rules if they want to talk to him, even given the already imbalanced levels of power involved. So, prat- but I can't claim to have never made the same mistakes.
 
 
Not in the Face
13:10 / 06.10.06
I think he's really just being dick- he's saying that people should adapt to his rules if they want to talk to him

I don't know - he's MP for Blackburn which has the highest Muslim population outside London and he got 42% of the vote last time, when the Iraq war was a big(ger?) issue. AFAIK he's generally reputed to have good relationships with the local community so all this would suggest to me that he is quite sensitive to what he says in this regard. I wouldn't wonder if its a calculated risk (how many women actually wear the veil?) to lay out his stall for deputy leader.

Personally I'd rather he did some research on how easy it is for women in his constituency to come and see their MP and then made some comments based on that. I would imagine that the issues of communication for those who do visit his surgery are pretty minor compared to trying to communicate with those who don't but might want to.
 
 
illmatic
16:22 / 06.10.06
Well, first things first, he's talking balls. Plenty of people have conversations wearing that garment all the time- it's eye contact and voice tones that are most important.

I think you're wrong here, Legba, I've taught students who've been wearing the hijab and it is a lot harder to communicate with them. I'd go as far as to say that their education has suffered because of it. However, I do think statements like this aren't made in a vacumn and feed into general suspicions of Muslims, and the polarisation that's growing between the two communities. It seems like it'll act as a rallying point for every racist idiot in the UK. The BBC have received about 8000 emails on the subject, so it obviously touches a nerve. (They've also had Melanie Fucking Philips, on for Christ sake. I mean, why? It's like getting Hitler on to talk about issues around kosher food. )

So, I think it's a slightly dodgy statement to make even though I personally agree with him. It doesn't allow much space for these women to explain why exactly they are wearing the veil. Personal choice? Pressure from men in their communities? A statement against Islamophobia? All of the above and more? Neither does it allow for the possibility that some (many?) in the Muslim community might have ambivalent feelings about the issue.

The best way forward to me seems to be some kind of inclusivity for Muslims and all minorities, allowing them a stake in the economic/social fabric of this country. Is Straw's statement calculated as a move towards this or a thoughtless and reactionary move away? I don't know.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:49 / 06.10.06
Just to be clear Jack Straw's issue is with the niqab (the face covering veil) and not the hijab which covers the head/hair.

There's a really good glossary of all the different terms here.
 
 
Red Concrete
18:44 / 06.10.06
Indeed. Or a burqa. The BBC has a report on here with a guide to the garb.

In other news this evening, a woman has had her veil ripped off by a passing racist (here)... However much you agree with Straw (and I think I do), it was a bit foolish of him to make this such a high-profile debate.
 
 
Olulabelle
19:11 / 06.10.06
Red Concrete, do you mean you think that muslim women who wear the niqab or the burqa should remove it for conversation?
 
 
Char Aina
23:08 / 06.10.06
should

i got the impression straw said he thinks removal improves communication, allowing folks to see face to face.
did he go as far as to say that it it should therefore be done?
 
 
Red Concrete
23:25 / 06.10.06
Well, I do think it is impractical. I can't believe it never hampers communication. That said, I have very little experience speaking with women wearing veils covering their face. I value understanding and communication very much - I am not used to trying to communicate with people who are hiding their face, so there is probably a psychological aspect to my difficulty with the niqab/burqa. No eyebrow movements, no smile or frown, no clenching of the teeth, none of those small signs which even subliminally allow you to empathise. I admit - the difficulty is mine. In countries where it's the norm, men must develop other ways of handling conversations with women. Does anyone have any insights?

To actually answer your question, Lula - no I don't think they should remove it. I would like it if they could, though. Multiculturalism requires tolerance of other cultures' quirks. I would like to see British/european natives overcoming these little challenges. And probably just as much, I would like to see muslim women think about the benefits of the way "western" cultures do things.

I understand that there are very strong religious feelings behind these clothes, and I hope I'm not being insensitive - as a lifelong atheist it's not easy to understand. But I do see that religion is much more closely intertwined with social (and political) traditions in islam, than in the west - and I think that's a key cultural difference that is not easy either for the natives or the immigrants to compromise on.
 
 
alas
18:35 / 07.10.06
I am not used to trying to communicate with people who are hiding their face, so there is probably a psychological aspect to my difficulty with the niqab/burqa.

You have experience talking on the phone, yes? So, perhaps I'm being blindingly obvious here, isn't the particular difficulty in this situation that the veiled person can see your face, but you can't see theirs? ...It is usually disempowering for the one who is "seen"--like talking to someone who wears sunglasses the whole time; it's disconcerting, in the Western world, because not only are we cut off from their facial expressions but they're not cut off from ours. This is very interesting--within the limits of a specific interpersonal interaction, it could be seen as strangely empowering to be veiled. (surely someone's written about that...it's pretty straight Foucault.)

I've never had a veiled student--head coverings, yes, of course. My students are mostly middle class, white, born in the US. I appear to be a white middle class woman, and I admit I don't like it when certain students wear baseball caps to class that are worn low and curved down to shade their eyes--something I've primarily encoutered from male students. It does feel like, essentially, a technique of avoiding interacting with the class, and given the gender dynamics, it can even feel vaguely threatening.

I would say that I believe that they shouldn't do this, and I think I talked to one student who used to wear sunglasses and a brimmed hat to class (frankly, I'm pretty sure he was stoned alot)--although I've never enforced any kind of dress code in my classroom.

If I had a veiled student, I think I would probably want to sit down with them and hear what their story was, and after time, I might very well carefully share my concerns about wearing a face-covering veil in class. But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't say "should" in that situation, certainly wouldn't start there. I think I would say: how can we work this out?
 
 
alas
19:18 / 07.10.06
I would also like to resurrect this posting of mine which killed the "Feminism and Sexist Culture" thread, which quotes extensively from a NYTimes article by Kwame Anthony Appiah's titled "The Case for Contamination," an excerpt from his book Cosmpolitanism: Ethics in a World of Strangers. I'm not feeling as sanguine about things as he sometimes seems to be, particularly about individualism, but his argument is worth reading.

Here's a (different) kernal of his argument that seems appropos here (and, alas, may again kill this thread):

On Kumasi's Wednesday festival day, I've seen visitors from England and the United States wince at what they regard as the intrusion of modernity on timeless, traditional rituals -- more evidence, they think, of a pressure in the modern world toward uniformity. They react like the assistant on the film set who's supposed to check that the extras in a sword-and-sandals movie aren't wearing wristwatches. And such purists are not alone. In the past couple of years, Unesco's members have spent a great deal of time trying to hammer out a convention on the ''protection and promotion'' of cultural diversity. (It was finally approved at the Unesco General Conference in October 2005.) The drafters worried that ''the processes of globalization. . .represent a challenge for cultural diversity, namely in view of risks of imbalances between rich and poor countries.'' The fear is that the values and images of Western mass culture, like some invasive weed, are threatening to choke out the world's native flora.

The contradictions in this argument aren't hard to find. This same Unesco document is careful to affirm the importance of the free flow of ideas, the freedom of thought and expression and human rights -- values that, we know, will become universal only if we make them so. What's really important, then, cultures or people? In a world where Kumasi and New York -- and Cairo and Leeds and Istanbul -- are being drawn ever closer together, an ethics of globalization has proved elusive.

The right approach, I think, starts by taking individuals -- not nations, tribes or ''peoples'' -- as the proper object of moral concern. It doesn't much matter what we call such a creed, but in homage to Diogenes, the fourth-century Greek Cynic and the first philosopher to call himself a ''citizen of the world,'' we could call it cosmopolitan. Cosmopolitans take cultural difference seriously, because they take the choices individual people make seriously. But because cultural difference is not the only thing that concerns them, they suspect that many of globalization's cultural critics are aiming at the wrong targets.
 
 
Red Concrete
19:20 / 07.10.06
You have experience talking on the phone, yes? So, perhaps I'm being blindingly obvious here, isn't the particular difficulty in this situation that the veiled person can see your face, but you can't see theirs? ...It is usually disempowering for the one who is "seen"--like talking to someone who wears sunglasses the whole time; it's disconcerting, in the Western world, because not only are we cut off from their facial expressions but they're not cut off from ours. This is very interesting--within the limits of a specific interpersonal interaction, it could be seen as strangely empowering to be veiled. (surely someone's written about that...it's pretty straight Foucault.)

No, I hate telephones, and am unable to hold conversations on them. I don't think the problem is that they can see my face and I can't see theirs. It's that I can't see theirs. If a conversation gets serious, people generally take sunglasses off - otherwise it's seen as a sign that they're not interested.

But it's more. I've no problem with anyone wearing what they like - but hiding the face, in european culture, also has negative connotations. Like you said, alas, with the baseball caps. Doing this in our culture means 'I'm cool' or 'I'm disinterested' and can also mean 'I'm dangerous'. Which is certainly not the intention of the veils, of course.
 
 
illmatic
12:10 / 08.10.06
isn't the particular difficulty in this situation that the veiled person can see your face, but you can't see theirs?

Alas, that is exactly it, but with much greater emphasis on the latter part. As a teacher, I'm sure you are aware of the importance of non-verbal communication in the classroom - you are constantly on alert for cues for your students - questions, raised eyebrows, signs of attention and inattention, curiousity, enjoyment, boredom, comprehension or lack of same. A veiled student excludes herself from this process. Veiled students effectively become invisible (which I'm sure is in part the intention behind the device in the first place), and are therefore were part excluded from the learning process going on.

In the case I'm thinking of, I'm sad to say that I didn't address it with her one on one. I should've done, and acknowledged this and even discussed it with some other members of staff at the time, but in the end it became one of those things I never got round to. She was caught in another class sneaking sweets up behind the veil though!
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:32 / 08.10.06
I've taught women who were wearing hijab in university classes. It was never a problem -- some of the Muslim women students I had were really outgoing, and some of them were shy. One student who wore a hijab was very, very shy and tended to workshop her thinking with me in semi-private chats before and after classes. I figured that was her way of showing me she was engaged without participating in class discussions, and it was fine.

I've never taught anyone who wore a burqa or niqab, however. If someone did attend a class of mine wearing a full face-covering, I don't know if I would consider it my business to raise that as an 'issue'. I'd see how she was doing with communication and class assignments first. And if a student wasn't communicating, or I felt she was being excluded from the general discussion, I'd want to ask her how she felt she was doing, and whether there was anything I could do to assist her full participation in discussions. Maybe this would extend to asking the class to be more attentive to speaking dynamics. I would never, ever frame this question in terms of a person's dress. It would sound patronising, for a start, but I would also be turning the issue into her problem. So many students sit in classes and don't engage, in all their myriad ways -- some because of shynesss, others because of boredom, others because they're tired or are having diffuclt lives. Some people simply don't learn by talking in tutorials or classes at all; they read or research or talk about matters outside of classes. Why is this any different?

I'm suspicious of making an issue like this into the problem of the person wearing the item that 'others' her. Like women wearing head coverings don't get enough crap already, including patronising white feminism, without being told that their dress is causing them to have difficulty learning. (I should add that in Australia it's pretty common, unfortunately, for women's headscarves to be torn off by passersby.)

If this conversation is going to continue, perhaps we should make a new thread?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:36 / 08.10.06
Also, Pegs, I'm kind of surprised at your willingness to joke about this person as if she was somehow naughty, or had a problem anyhow. "Sneaking sweets up the veil" -- what does that have to do with anything about multiculturalism or her dress? How does eating sweets in a classroom count as behaviour worthy of being 'caught'? Oooh, sneaky Muslim with her veil that hides lots of candy! Sorry, but it really does sound like that. Maybe you should go back and edit?
 
 
illmatic
13:41 / 08.10.06
Perhaps you're misunderstanding the level I'm teaching at? I'm talking post-school, pre-University, age 16-18 usually, and in the college I'm talking about it's against the rules for students to eat in class. Should've made that clear. Sorry.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:52 / 08.10.06
I understand that there are very strong religious feelings behind these clothes, and I hope I'm not being insensitive - as a lifelong atheist it's not easy to understand. But I do see that religion is much more closely intertwined with social (and political) traditions in islam, than in the west - and I think that's a key cultural difference that is not easy either for the natives or the immigrants to compromise on.

RC, it's important to understand here that Muslim women have all kinds of reasons for wearing all kinds of clothing Euro-Americans find odd because it covers up more than is culturally normative in Euro-American contexts. If you do some reading, you'll find that head coverings are different depending on what strand of Islamic tradition a person follows and where that tradition originates, or where a person grew up -- all kinds of reasons. Some Muslim women don't wear head coverings at all. Sometimes wearing hijab may be more about culture than religion, or about complying with laws, or familial preference. So perhaps it's not usful to think of this as 'religious feeling', necessarily. I'm sure there's way you could understand this where your atheism is irrelevant.

I find this talk of compromise between 'natives' and 'immigrants' kind of worrying, by the way. What do you do if someone who has lived in the same place as you all their life has a huge cultural difference from you? You usually let them alone to do their thing. You don't go around telling, for example, the Amish, or Exclusive Brethren, that their women should be allowed to wear pants and cut their hair. What is so different about this situation? Given that so many British Muslims have grown up in Britain, as the press keeps on telling us with their idiotic phrase 'hom-grown terrorists', isn't it time people stopped talking about 'immigrants' in these terms?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:55 / 08.10.06
Your institution tells people who are 16-18 and who have left school that they can't eat in class, and teachers police that rule about lollies?

I think we may live in different universes, and I am the one experiencing the 'culture shock'
 
 
illmatic
13:58 / 08.10.06
Your institution tells people who are 16-18 and who have left school that they can't eat in class, and teachers police that rule about lollies?

Totally. I'm not saying it's not daft either, but I think this really would get into threadrot territory. I'll PM you.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:54 / 08.10.06
i got the impression straw said he thinks removal improves communication, allowing folks to see face to face.
did he go as far as to say that it it should therefore be done?


Didn't he just say that he asked women to remove the veil before speaking to him? I don't think he went as far as saying it should be done, and I don't think he implied that he wouldn't speak to those who refused.
 
 
alas
00:39 / 09.10.06
Disco--your much more thoughtful discussion of how you'd handle a fully veiled student is really helpful and articulate. Thanks.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:29 / 09.10.06
What I still find problematic is that he seems to have made this a public statement. Had he asked someone face to face and case by case, if they could remove their covering because it made that particular conversation between that woman and that politician easier for him, as opposed to seeming to say that the covering makes "communication difficult" in a general sense, i.e. one that could be taken as an accusation of intentional ghettoisation by the community, I think that would be quite different, though obviously not perfect by any means.
 
  

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