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James Randi

 
  

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Chuckling Duck
14:30 / 15.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Lozt Bookz:
You're misunderstanding Lionheart's point (if I understand him correctly) which was 'how can you blow air in a completely sealed glass box'. It's not an argument from incredulity it's pointing out a logical flaw in your statement on the issue.


Well, it wasn't my statement, and he was trying to point out a evidential flaw, not a physical one. But okay.

I was trying to point out that some observers have trouble believing that a stage magician’s surreptitious breath directed at the base of a glass box could spin a light object like a matchbook or a delicately balanced spoon, and yet they have no trouble believing in undetectable paranormal forces doing the same.
 
 
Ria
15:20 / 15.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Chuckling Duck:
James Randi, like Houdini before him, is a champion of truth.


of his perceived truth which he thinks he already knows.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
15:43 / 15.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Ria:


of his perceived truth which he thinks he already knows.


Of what can be demonstrated, rather than what is merely thought to be.
 
 
grant
18:16 / 15.10.01
Here:
peer-reviewed, non-celebrity evidence of ESP phenomena.

Before the latest crash, there was a whole thread dedicated to this stuff.
Ganzfeld Tests. (the "ganzfeld" test involves sensory deprivation: putting ping-pong-ball-halves over the subject's eyes, shining a red light on that, and covering the ears with headphones broadcasting white noise. The subject then catalogues sense impressions which may or may not be broadcast by a "sender" in another room.)


from the collective's archive:
Another, more thorough article by Dr. Bem.
quote:The Juilliard sample. There are several reports in the literature of a relationship between creativity or artistic ability and psi performance (Schmeidler, 1988). To explore this possibility in the ganzfeld setting, 10 male and 10 female undergraduates were recruited from the Juilliard School. Of these, 8 were music students, 10 were drama students, and 2 were dance students. Each served as the receiver in a single session in Study 104 or 105. As shown in Table 1, these students achieved a hit rate of 50% (p = .014), one of the five highest hit rates ever reported for a single sample in a ganzfeld study. The musicians were particularly successful: 6 of the 8 (75%) successfully identified their targets (p = .004; further details about this sample and their ganzfeld performance were reported in Schlitz & Honorton, 1992).


and
some interesting circumstantial evidence.
quote:A more successful experiment in telepathy was conducted in 1937 by Harold Sherman and Sir Hubert Wilkins, when Wilkins, an Australian explorer, was hired by the Russians to find a pilot who had disappeared in the Arctic. Sherman suggested to Wilkins that during his trip they should try to communicate by telepathy. Three days each week Wilkins sat down and reviewed the day's events; in New York, Sherman sat in near-darkness and wrote down anything that came into his head. Among other incidents, Sherman learned of a fire at a place called Aklavik before the news came by radio.

There have been some spectacular results under strictly controlled conditions. One of the most famous was reported in 1937 by Professor Riess of Hunter College, New York. On a number of evenings, Riess turned face-upward a series of cards from a newly shuffled pack on his desk, and his subject wrote down the cards that came to mind. Two packs of 25 cards were used each day. Gradually, the subject became more accurate; and on the last nine days of the experiment her score of successes was 17, 18, 19, 20, 20, 19, 20, 21 and 21 รข€” so far above chance as to be astonishing, and by far the highest score ever recorded in a series of ESP experiments.


Not to mention that even some
skeptical accounts say there could be something to it....

quote:An amateur magician as a youth, Bem began ESP shows at the age of 17, a pastime he continues today as a professional mentalist and member of the Psychic Entertainers Association. In 1983, as a mentalist and top research psychologist, Bem was asked to evaluate Charles Honorton's laboratory in Princeton, New Jersey. According to Bem, at the time Honorton had just initiated a new series of ganzfeld studies (dubbed "autoganzfeld" because the targets were randomized by computer) that complied with stringent research protocols. Bem's visit to Honorton's laboratory left him convinced that results of the ganzfeld research deserved to be published in a mainstream journal. "I looked over the protocol, and was quited impressed," Bem recalled. "I had read Honorton's debate with Ray Hyman, and thought that the one talent I have is that I am able to reach the mainstream journals."

At that point, I interjected to ask what he had thought of psi research prior to arriving at Honorton's laboratory. "Before ganzfeld, I was a skeptic," he answered quickly and assertively.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
18:51 / 15.10.01
To quote Dr. Bem, “. . . the autoganzfeld studies by themselves cannot satisfy the requirement that replications be conducted by a ‘broader range of investigators.’ “

Science demands that other researchers, not just Honorton's team, be able to replicate Honorton's results using strict controls. Without this independant confirmation, the autoganzfeld studies are as significant as the ‘discovery’ of cold fusion.

As for the stories, well, they’re interesting stories.
 
 
Lionheart
20:41 / 15.10.01
I'm not replying so far cuz I'm busy, so sorry about not participating. Oh, and I agree with quite a few objections about what I wrote because I didn't finish writing my message due to time limitations.
 
 
reidcourchie
06:49 / 18.10.01
I may have missed something here but isn't Randi like Geller an entertainer? If so I would imagine his "science" like Gellers "psychic powers" to have a lot more to do with livlihood and publicity than actual science.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
11:46 / 18.10.01
quote:Originally posted by reidcourchie:
I may have missed something here but isn't Randi like Geller an entertainer? If so I would imagine his "science" like Gellers "psychic powers" to have a lot more to do with livlihood and publicity than actual science.


Randi is retired from stage magic. He is a full-time debunker who makes some money from the sale of books, etc. He is not a scientist.

And personally, I think he's terrible at public relations. He's pretty crusty! But he's very, very good at spotting scams.
 
 
Mister Snee
18:38 / 18.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Chuckling Duck:
But he's very, very good at spotting scams.


IMHO this is no great feat. All he has to do to succeed marvelously at "spotting scams" is believe in nothing, which is exactly what he does. If we convicted 100% of people brought to trial, we'd be very, very good at bringing criminals to justice. That doesn't make it either fair or impressive.

Doesn't take a brain cell count in excess of your body weight, either.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
15:57 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Mister Snee:
All he has to do to succeed marvelously at "spotting scams" is believe in nothing, which is exactly what he does. If we convicted 100% of people brought to trial, we'd be very, very good at bringing criminals to justice. That doesn't make it either fair or impressive.


To use your analogy, it would be just as prejudicial to assume without investigation that some of the folks under trial are “innocent” and some are “guilty”. The scientific method says you have to judge every case on its own merits. Again, Randi’s no scientist. But if I was buying a used car, I’d want someone like him to check things out for me.

There is skill involved in spotting the flim-flam man, and Randi is both talented and practiced at it. For example, he’s the one who exposed the TV evangelical Peter Popoff. Now, you or I would probably have guessed that Popoff was using some sort of trick when he called out the names and life stories of people in his audience, claiming that the holy spirit had told him about them. But Randi figured out exactly how Popoff was doing it, and made a recording of the radio broadcasts his assistants were making into a covert mike in Popoff’s ear to prove it.

[ 19-10-2001: Message edited by: Chuckling Duck ]
 
 
Mister Snee
17:14 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Chuckling Duck:
But Randi figured out exactly how Popoff was doing it, and made a recording of the radio broadcasts his assistants were making into a covert mike in Popoff’s ear to prove it.


I like that. He still strikes me as a hard-nosed, self-important fop, but I do appreciate his particular brand of justice when it lands where it ought to.

I just wish he'd lay off, say, the UFOlogists who aren't trying to make money off of anyone (at least not in the instances he's so deriding, like Worldwide Contact Day or whatever it's called). Sure, they're a bunch of nuts, but leave them be.

I mean, c'mon.

Guess what I'm trying to say is he should stick to investigating fraud and not be so much of a general debunker/skeptic. Professionally it accomplishes nothing but make him look biased, which can easily lead to situations of the nature of "sure, Randi disproved The Great Wossname, but... you know, it's Randi."

Which isn't to say I'd ever heard of the guy before I saw this thread.

 
 
Clavis
02:22 / 23.10.01
Randi, like anyone, is allowed to have his opinions. But when he suggests that a given case of claimed abduction yields evidence that is not only laughable, but identical in nature to evidence usually given in depositions about alien abduction experiences, he is not merely giving his opinion. He is giving his opinion as an expert.

He is quite highly regarded in the scientific community, but not because he is a party pooper... it is because he has been a great friend to the legitimate scientific community. And no legitimate scientist rejects scrutiny.

Sagan also pooh-poohed abduction stories, and with good reason. All relevant research into abduction stories has yielded quite mundane phenomena, rather than extraterrestrial artifacts.

The ratio between the evidence that could rationally be considered convincing for alien visitation of any sort, and the actual evidence that exists, is so high that we would need to unroll a couple of rolls of toilet paper in order to write out the zeroes.

That fact has not changed in the past 30 years. It may sometimes seem rote when repeated by Sagan, Shermer, Randi, Asimov, even Carlin... but it isn't rote to state the obvious. In fact, nowadays it seems downright essential.


Clavis
 
 
Enamon
00:46 / 08.11.01
$1 Million Challenge To Disprove Evidence Of Life After Death
http://www.victorzammit.com/challenge.html
 
 
Enamon
00:55 / 08.11.01
Also another interesting bit from the same site:
http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/larryking.html

quote:The Skeptics
HOW A BRILLIANT UK MEDIUM SLAUGHTERED US SKEPTIC ON TV!

One of the most entertaining, educational and interesting debates ever took place on CNN's Larry King television show in the second week of June 2001 between gifted British medium Rosemary Altea and the closed minded skeptic James Randi (JR). Rosemary showed she is a gifted medium; she was absolutely brilliant, witty and magnificently devastating. She thoroughly and convincingly defeated JR.

One memorable line stated by Larry King on CNN in this debate was, "We've taken two calls and so far it's 100 percent" referring to the medium Rosemary Altea who answered two calls at random getting it one hundred per cent correct!

From just the first two callers, the odds of Rosemary getting the deadly accurate reading by chance was according to a statistician, more than 40,000,000 to 1. Translated this means Rosemary is a highly gifted medium.

Larry King Live Television Show on CNN is shown worldwide and would have several millions watching it. Television is good because you get to know exactly what each person is saying. You can watch the emotions running high, the facial expressions, the wit, the put-downs, the spontaneous responses - and if someone is blatantly lying.

Larry King himself conducted the interview with great equanimity and exhibited that rare wit and those special insights when he asked the two guests some very incisive questions. I'm sure litigation lawyers will make Larry King an honorary litigation lawyer for his skills in examination in chief and cross-examination. Certainly, what clearly came across was this JR could not bluff Larry King, could not bluff Rosemary and he could not bluff the viewers.

Viewers witnessed this closed-minded skeptic being outwitted and psychically 'slaughtered.' This sceptic JR exhibited his usual negative, sarcastic, denigrating, attitude - and more than once was fundamentally inconsistent. He even tried to cheat on camera! But Rosemary Altea was not disturbed at all. This was a huge victory for gifted mediumship, where the afterlife evidence was most persuasive.

Rosemary's brilliance

WITHOUT any cold reading, Rosemary took a call from a CNN caller who said only that she wanted to know about her deceased father. Rosemary then identified SEVEN consecutive distinct unmistakeable variables: that the caller's father was SLIM ... SLENDER faced ... suffered from serious CHEST problems ... had trouble with BREATHING... the passing over was SUDDEN.... that it was a SHOCK to the family. Rosemary then went on to say that she could see him and he was telling her he planted a rosebush just before his death- the called affirmed this. Then Rosemary actually corrected the caller when she told her that her deceased father was claiming he had planted TWO ROSEBUSHES not one. BINGO! ALL CORRECT!!!

Larry King then asked JR, assuming the caller was not a plant, that the caller was genuine... what's the response?

JR: "It is typical cold reading.'

This was part of the critical evidence for the millions of people who were watching. "Cold reading" the king of the skeptic says when Rosemary had NOT asked the caller anything !

Not only that, the caller stood corrected when the spirit through Rosemary corrected her - stating that he did not plant one rosebush on the day he died, as Rosemary stated initially, but two rosebushes. To which the caller said, yes that is absolutely right!

Further, Rosemary stated that the father had breathing problems - to which this JR responded "Anyone before dying will have breathing problems". Medical experts tell us that is NOT true - not all people have breathing difficulties before they die.

Again, this kind of defence by JR claiming it to be cold reading is absolute non sequitur - it does not follow and the defence is irrelevant, immaterial and totally unacceptable. This JR was beaten and knew it.

We ALL know what cold reading is - fishing for information... where the medium asks questions to try to elicit information... But, in this instance, there were millions of witnesses who watched and heard what went on - the medium Rosemary did NOT ask the caller any questions.

To a lawyer, this JR was not only lying, it was intentional fraudulent conduct. Because JR KNEW - as did the millions who were watching - Rosemary did NOT ask any questions. JR knew that Rosemary did not try to 'fish' for information. JR knew that what he said - that it was 'cold reading'- was a wilful, deliberate untruth to try to mislead the millions who were watching the show. That is cheating, that is technical fraudulent conduct - and that is what so many mediums and psychic researchers including myself have been claiming about the king of the sceptics when he deliberately chooses not to tell the truth.

A second person telephoned Larry King - again the medium did not ask any questions at all. And again Rosemary the medium performed magnificently - was able to relate eight variables consecutively one hundred per cent correct!

And again this materialist JR refused to concede defeat. JR's rationale? This time - the eight consecutive hits were, JR stated, too general!

I really wish someone would educate this uninformed sceptic as to what technically is 'specificity in variables identification' when using 'content analysis.' Simplified, this means you count the number of direct specific hits.

More JR 'LIES'

During the debate JR was able to sneak in a statement that John Edward, the American medium is only '13% correct'. Where did this figure come from? Empirical studies show at Arizona University with Dr Schwartz, that John Edward has been getting over 80% correct hits and on his TV shows up to 90% correct.

Why sceptics do not cold read?

Implied in this JR's rationale is that anyone can speak in general terms and get it right when doing a reading. But this JR would refuse to take calls on the Larry King Live show - because, he knows and we all know that he will make himself the biggest fool in this world if he tried.

That goes for all sceptics - it is so easy to claim anyone can do what a gifted medium does that gifted mediums speak in general terms or that the success is related to 'cold readings'. Yet we do NOT get one skeptic who will go on record in public trying to duplicate the success of a gifted psychic.

When one wins LOTTO - is the winner using cold reading? The winner chooses numbers - familiar numbers we use everyday. Yet because the winner chooses SPECIFIC familiar numbers, he/she wins!

JR went on over-defending his position. But to those watchers who were uncommitted, it came across with absolute certainty that this closed minded skeptic was beaten, trounced and defeated by a gifted medium Rosemary Altea.

It is no wonder skeptics have only TWO PER CENT public support - see University of California - Andrew Greeley survey on the net.

Sceptic's inconsistency

During the preliminaries, Larry King asked JR: " ...you believe that the dead is dead and no one can communicate with them, or do you believe that the possibility exists and hasn't been proved?"

To which JR answers: " ...I don't know..."

Some ten minutes later - Larry King, "...Do you believe in the possibility of psychic phenomena?"

JR: "Absolutely, or I wouldn't be in this business."

King: "Right, so we can - the possibility of transmitting thought exists..."

JR:"Oh absolutely..."

Here is someone who has been supposedly investigating psi for some thirty years, NEVER found anything positive, NEVER obtained any evidence for psi, NEVER accessed psi the way scientists have and are doing. Then this JR comes up with something which seriously and inevitably questions his credibility and says: "Oh absolutely!"

On what basis does this JR say 'Absolutely'? If this materialist JR had never ever experienced any positive evidence, as he states, why now does he say "yes, the possibility of psi ABSOLUTELY... telepathy, spirit communication... exist"!? Is it possible that this comment is an indication that Rosemary's evidence, the voluminous objective evidence about psi and the afterlife are getting through to this hard core materialist?

Psychics have had to battle with these materialists in the US, UK, Australia and elsewhere for decades. Television and the Internet are breaking down the resistance to psychic phenomena and the evidence for the afterlife. The Internet in June showed more than 7 million global items related to psychic phenomena and the afterlife compare to the materialists 158,000.


-- Victor Zammit (June 2001)

 
 
Chuckling Duck
14:08 / 08.11.01
Dammit, Zammitt!

As if Larry King Live wasn’t sensational enough, we have to hear about it filtered through this guy’s psyche.

On the show, Randi said he doesn’t know if there’s life after death. He said it’s possible that psychic powers exist. He also said he’s seen no hard evidence for the existence of either. That’s what skepticism is about. That’s what he’s been saying since, well, the seventies.

But Zammitt tries to make it look like Randi is wavering due to his encounter on Larry King. Not terribly honest of Zammitt.

I'm sure there's a summary of the Larry King encounter on Randi's site too, if you want to see his perspective.
 
 
Lionheart
18:49 / 12.11.01
Ok. i'm back.

The 2 SRI scientists Puthoff and Targ did not say that Geller has psychic powers. They said that their tests proved inconclusive.

But it was Randi who convinced me that Geller has psychic powers. If I read the book Flim-Flam! correctly then here's the evidence.

An experiment was done. 12 nouns were taken from a dictionary at random (Randi agrees that the selections were random) and made into picutres. Then a sender started "sending" the pictures to Geller. Geller was in another room. Now, Randi looked deeply into each trial and he threw out Targ and Puthoff's conclusions. In Flim-Flam he presents his own...

Out of 12 trials, 2 were compromised. So Randi struck those two off the record.

So now we have 10 trials. Now there are 3 possible outcomes for each trial.

1.) A Direct hit. A direct hit is when Geller not only describes what he "sees" but also correctly names the object.

2.) A pass. When Geller can accuratly describe the object but isn't sure what it is. Example: I see a four-legged animal. It's either a camel or a horse.

3.) Miss. A miss is when Geller doesn't accuratly describe the picuture.

According to Radni, Geller had 1 miss, one hit and..... 8 passes! Which is quite amazing considering the fact how many random nouns could've been picked.

Anyways, for those who want to read the transcripts between that UK psychic lady, Larry King, and James Randi then here's the transcript...

Click.... HERE.

Oh, and the glass box. I don't understand what you mean by "vibrating the glass box". I mean, somebody comes into the lab. sits down in front of a camera about.. let's say...50 feet away from the glass box and moves object to and away from her. From side to side. Objects like matchbooks and other stuff. How the hell do you vibrate a glass box like this? And how the hell do you use magnets to move non-magnetic objects? And how do you use magnets to move magnetic objects (though there were no magnetic objects) to and away from you and from side to side?

And how come Randi never mentioned "virbrations" nor "magnets" when disproving Nina who's-last-name-I-don't remember? He only mentioned that she fooled scientists by using strings. How could you use strings through a completely sealed glass box, in a lab in which you've never been before, to move object to and away from you and side to side?

Randi doesn't give an explanation that fits the facts. He just says how he would've done it while ignoring certain facts.

Now obviously he's good at debunking certain things. But don't forget that he's the opposite of a blind believer. He's a blind sceptic. He's not agnostic. He comes into an investigation already with the "this is B.S." mindset. If you don't believe me then read some of his work. Especially that encyclopedia which he wrote and which I read recently in which he states that people who use mantras are "seriously disturbed" and that the Necronomicon is "an ancient grimoire".

But I've got to thank Randi for one main and important thing. Using his debunking method I can now debunk quite a bit of modern science. i'll post what I mean by that later.
 
 
Enamon
19:34 / 12.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Chuckling Duck:
I'm sure there's a summary of the Larry King encounter on Randi's site too, if you want to see his perspective.


Randi's critique:
http://www.randi.org/jr/06-15-01.html

quote:On the 5th of this month, I was on the Larry King Live TV show, which is seen all over the world, and in repeats as well. The appearance brought me masses of e-mail responses, as I'd suspected it would. It involved yet another "psychic" who claims to speak to dead folks. Many who saw the show commented on the accuracy of her readings, and since the performance hadn't sounded all that great to me, I decided to look back at the video tape to see what had been so impressive.

Now, host Larry King did just what we might expect: he singled out the "hits" and ignored the misses that the "psychic" came up with. As we know, this is a guessing game, with names, initials, words, ideas, notions, all being mumbled and "tried on" for fit by the victims. And remember that those who called in to the program were chosen for on-air participation based on their "need" for a reading. Such people are very accepting , of course, and will follow the instructions of the "psychic" to hunt around for any connection they can find, when nothing seems to fit immediately.

The "psychic" on the Larry King show began each reading with a disclaimer, saying that she "had" a spirit in sight, but didn't know if it was the correct one. She pointed out that she might be hearing some other entity, perhaps one not even connected with the person inquiring. This way, any and all failures can be explained away, of course. This, and the requirement that the victim search for a connection, makes it impossible for the "psychic" to fail.

What we saw on the video met our expectations, not varying at all from the usual run of such "cold readings" with which we're very familiar. Adding up the guesses, noting the analysis, and one can see just how "accurate" this reading was. It's always a surprise.

Reader Steve Zinski, among many others, had very constructive and perceptive comments on the show and my participation in it. I will leave it to this independent observer to show you how well an amateur analyst can see through the methods:


I saw you on Larry King Live last night . . . and I must say that I believe the "psychic" had the upper hand. She seemed very likeable and it didn't help much when her first two readings were "hits." You did very well too, but I think you needed to more specifically address certain points of her "reading." Let me explain.
She "read" a woman's mother by saying that she died of cancer, then made some statements about a new renovated house. You correctly pointed out that lots of people die of cancer. Also, you correctly pointed out that lots of people buy new houses. But you failed to point out that the psychic was reading her dead mother and not her brother, who is the one who recently bought the new house. Why would a dead mother talk about the woman's living brother's new house? Again, it's like you said: they make the situation fit.

And I'd like to point out something about the "ask a relative" trick. When a psychic says that they must be right and to consult a relative about the reading, think about this. It works like a pyramid scheme or chain letter. The subject asks mother and father about a girl who got killed on a bicycle by a car. So now there's two possible chances they'll know of someone who matches this scenario. Then mother/father ask their brothers/sisters/mothers/fathers, etc., and now there are even more people looking for a fit. Then they ask their friends/relatives, etc., and the odds grow exponentially until someone makes the vague story fit. And then it's considered a "hit." You need to point this out to people.

I really enjoyed seeing you on the show. I only wish you hadn't let the "psychic" get the upper hand. She even had Larry on her side by the end of the show, or at least that's what she was trying to make the audience think.

Okay, Steve. Part of my problem was that I was distant from the site of the broadcast. I had a very bad audio connection, which eventually broke down completely, and I had no data about what happened during the commercial breaks. From previous experience of this show, I can tell you that the "psychic" was able to listen in on the phone calls coming in, and was likely given a choice of accepting or rejecting which ones would be used. That has been my experience of the show, when I've been in the studio. The psychic had previously "read" for Larry King — a fact unknown to me — and he had declared that he was convinced she'd contacted his dead mother. Unarguably, that has to somewhat bias him in favor of her powers. Furthermore, it is just not possible to educate the viewing audience on statistics, or on what is needed for a proper examination of a claim. In the time provided, that is. Note that this psychic not only would not answer my question on what she could do, and with what accuracy, but she also refused to be tested. Friend of Sylvia Browne, perhaps?

In more detail, in this reading, the psychic guessed at: grandmother, or connected with someone in the studio, a lady (not described in any way), died of cancer, very sick before she died, a hospital, her end was "sort of quick, it was a blessing when it happened, talk about a house, a new house, a move, renovations to part of the house, something about the roof, a roof collapsing. 14 guesses.

The response: cancer: yes. The caller, not the psychic, identified this as her mother. When this data is added to the observations made by Steve, above, is this reading now taking on a different complexion? But when Larry asked the caller, "Everything she said was on the mark?" the caller answered, "Yes"!

FACTS: the woman was not grandmother, was not connected with anyone in the studio, was never identified by the psychic, and thus could have been the mother, daughter, sister, aunt, grandmother, friend, neighbor, etc., and any of those would have been acceptable. She died of cancer, one of the two most common causes of death in this country. The type of cancer was not specified, and "hospital," "very sick," "blessing," must apply, and were applied, once the psychic found out (not from the spirit world, but from the caller) what the relationship was. Not one detail was given about the appearance of the spirit, who the psychic said was standing there, plainly visible to her. The "talk about a house" had nothing to do with this person, and could have been anyone's house, past, present, or future. There was no roof problem, and nothing collapsed — but had that been a "hit," you can depend on it that much would have been made of it. This is the sort of high-risk guess that is occasionally thrown in, on the chance that it might succeed.

Later, the psychic referred to someone wearing "a uniform." Wow! Think for a moment: that could be army, navy, air force, marines, postal worker, Sear's delivery person, hospital worker, sanitation person, police officer, fireman, taxi or limo or bus driver, restaurant employee, airline employee, you name your own. At some point in time, almost everyone has a relative who was in uniform. The psychic smoothly changed a guess about a beret into a cowboy hat, and her last reading was a complete flop, and not extolled by King or by anyone else. In that one, there were guesses about a teenage girl who died in a bike accident, then when that brought no reaction, the direction changed toward a "plump" lady. Still no hits. When asked by King for verification, the caller actually said, "No, I cannot find anything." Asked if a guess about a mother dying of a heart problem was correct, the caller said simply, "No." Concerning the total failure of the dramatic guesses about a teenage girl killed in a bike accident, the psychic launched into a fervent appeal to the caller:


What I would... what I would say to this lady, and I know this, I know it's happened on this show, you know, we tell people something, and, and I would say to you, please go home and check with your family about this young girl, because somehow she's connecting to you, and sees you as a connection to someone in your family.
I received several inquiries about how the psychic came up with a reference to "two rosebushes." I don’t find that remarkable, at all. That caller had said her father was planting a rosebush when he died, and the psychic suggested that there were two. The caller agreed there actually were two plantings, one on a former occasion, but never mentioned if there were more than two. Where's the psychic revelation here? Mind you, if the caller had denied there were two, the psychic has the perfect "out" by saying that she's speaking of another occasion, another planting. And the caller, of course, would grant her that guess.

If you have a videotape of this show, and you believe that this psychic was even moderately successful in her guessing game, go back to it and see what others have seen. I rest my case.


Now here's the transcript of the entire event:
http://www6.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0106/05/lkl.00.html

Read it, make up your mind, post your opinion here.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
20:01 / 12.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Lionheart:
Using his debunking method I can now debunk quite a bit of modern science. i'll post what I mean by that later.


Before you take the time, may I recommend a book to you? Carl Sagan, “The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark”. Sagan’s a pleasure to read, and that book eloquently expresses how science continually questions and tests its discoveries. Scientists debunk each others’ work constantly. Accepted theories are the ones that have so far survived debunking.
 
 
grant
12:47 / 20.11.01
Check out this New World Crisis thread for more on psychics & science.
 
  

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