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Rhymes. Busta Rhymes.

 
  

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D Terminator XXXIII
09:18 / 02.07.06
For a limited time only, the clean version of How We Do It, featuring Missy.

This sparse song is currently doing it for me. It reminds me of the freakier songs Missy occassionally does, so sexual and slightly sinister.

I don't know much about Busta, maybe we* can discuss him and put him in a context, any context as we* find relevant.



* = And by 'we' I mean you.
 
 
Char Aina
07:31 / 03.07.06
busta makes me happy.
i dont think we would be able to share a flat or anything, but as long as he keeps the crazy philosophy under his hat i reckon we'd be cool to hang.

it certainly seems like he likes to ah... party.

i like his delivery(who doesnt?) and how it makes his crazy word choice seem more appropriate than it actually is.

i mean this:
Federal cases cause nuff bodies end up in medical places
In they blood finding them chemical traces
Leaving special investigators going through skeptical phases

isnt all that special a verse on paper, but when i hear him hit it it rattles around the head for ages.
 
 
Rollo Kim, on location
08:22 / 03.07.06
I'm not familiar with his more recent 'work' but he is ace isn't he? Really bombastic and joyful!? And slightly mental.
 
 
Kitchen Music
16:11 / 04.07.06
And, unfortunately, slightly homophobic. The remix of Busta's 'Touch It' features, in addition to DMX, Mary J. Blige, Missy Elliot, an extra line from Busta saying 'Fuck you faggot, I shot at you!'

Though Busta might not neccesarily be talking about shooting at an actual homosexual man or woman, the use of the word is still derogatory, which I don't find particulalry impressive.
 
 
Jackie Susann
01:57 / 05.07.06
Um, if you write off rappers who use the word 'faggot' you are basically writing off all commercial rap. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just surprised you brought it up specifically in a Busta Rhymes thread.

I love Busta. Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Can See is probably in my top ten.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
06:36 / 05.07.06
And, unfortunately, slightly homophobic.

Unlike so many other rappers...

I have an odd listening relationship with Busta. I've never owned any of his LPs, but I hear him all the time on other MC's tracks, and he's great. I would point to "What's Happening" from Method Man's Tical 0 LP as a prime example of why I like Busta. It's a thumpin', bumpin' party track, and Meth and Busta complement each other perfectly with their exuberant styles. That whole album is an ace party disc, incidentally.

Busta's style just makes me want to grin. He's wacky, he uses odd phrasing and changes his style on the fly. Busta Rhymes is happy music to me.
 
 
Char Aina
08:03 / 05.07.06
he's alo pretty liberal with the 'bitch' throwing and the racist five percenter politics.

it's not just the sexism-racism-homophobia.
he is currently in trouble for withholding evidence from the police regarding a shooting that resulted in the death of one of his friends.

busta is a bad role model in a good few ways.
i can't help but love him, though.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:18 / 05.07.06
I think it's more accurate to say that while you can listen to a lot of commercial rap and not hear the word "faggot", Busta Rhymes sadly isn't unique in using the term. (This cross-posted with toksik - would be interested to hear more about these "racist five percenter politics" as that's news to me.)

Moving on... Well, he's had a chequered career, hasn't he? Emerged sounding like nobody else, first three albums were each better than the one before, culminating in Extinction Level Event: The Final World Front, an insane apocalyptic concept album which seemed to cram a career's worth of good songs and from which he's never really recovered. (The crazy thing is at the time ELE seemed like a really long, possibly overstuffed album, but looking at the tracklisting now it seems pretty tight - I'm not one for "hip hop has got worse OH NOES", but the length of albums has definitely got out of control in many cases.) Right at the point of that album, Busta seemed like he knew exactly how to balance the demands of commercial radio and the tastes of yr more 'hardcore' hip hop fans - time was when he was one of the people it was still 'okay' for even snotty Jeru fans (like me, then) to like (back when Flipmode Squad seemed a really exciting prospect, thanks largely to one Rah Digga).

Since then, Busta strikes me as someone who keeps falling between stools... He can do the odd decent slow jam - weird that that's now what he's better at given the nature of his flow - but he's become one of those people whose every album is hailed as a "return to form" (how many have there been since ELE - just three now?), whereas in fact a cursory listen has been enough in each case to make me decide to spend my money on something else. I sort of miss the guy who was a bit thinner and had more hair.
 
 
Char Aina
08:44 / 05.07.06
do you want me to elaborate on the five percenters, or on busta rhymes' use of their philosophy?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:47 / 05.07.06
I'm familiar with the Five Percent Nation, so it would be the latter.
 
 
Char Aina
08:58 / 05.07.06
well, he's on that link(down the bottom, hit ctrl+f)as one of the major voices spreading the doctrine.
i'll see if i can dig up some more.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:21 / 05.07.06
In case it isn't clear, toksik, I think it would be good if you could produce any examples of Busta Rhymes engaging in specifically racist "five percenter politics", as alleged, since I don't accept that being in any way affiliated with the Five Percent Nation or ever having expounded any element of the beliefs/theories associated with them automatically makes one guilty of racism...
 
 
Char Aina
09:55 / 05.07.06
unfortunately the interview in which he talks about what it means to him that i was looking for doesnt seem to be online.
if it turns up i'll link to it.

he has admited to being a member, and has admitted on more than one occasion, iirc, to finding it quite natural that a black man would be a black supremacist, once at least in almost exactly those terms.

i dont have any albums with me to check too deeply, but he does have a few references on record.
he says stand on the corners, god build on five percent lessons on 'new york shit', referencing the 'cipher' of temple seven fame. he also has a tune called 'strutting like a g.o.d.', another called 'Salute da gods!', both seemingly referencing the teachings of the nation.

some lingo here for reference.

perhaps more as i recall lyrics and find links.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:06 / 05.07.06
Still not seeing the racism, I'm afraid. Referring to oneself as a "god" =/ "black supremacism", just as "black supremacism" in modern day America =/ anything equivalent to white supremacism.
 
 
Char Aina
10:13 / 05.07.06
I don't accept that being in any way affiliated with the Five Percent Nation or ever having expounded any element of the beliefs/theories associated with them automatically makes one guilty of racism...

neither do i.
guilty would only be if one espoused or expounded those elements of the philosophy which are racist, such as the idea that the black man, and not any other type of human being, is god on earth or the idea that a 6-some thousand year old magician-scientist made a devil in white people.


do you agree that some of the tenets of knowledge leave a little to be desired?

from the link you supplied:

The Nation of Gods and Earths’ teachings advocate that the Blackman, which includes all non-white men, is God.

closely followed by:

The Five Percenters as a whole do not consider themselves to be racists. The official stance of the Five Percenters is that they are neither “anti-white nor pro-Black,” but are instead "pro-righteous and anti-devilish,” positioning a person's works over their skin color.

...which doesnt really cut it for me as a disclaimer.
 
 
Char Aina
10:17 / 05.07.06
i'm afraid we may disagree on the whole calling yourself a god and considering your race to be the seat of god not equalling racism.

also, i'm not sure why you brought up white supremacists, dude.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:25 / 05.07.06
White supremacism being so dominant a philosophy and power structure in the Western world today, of course. That's the context in which Busta Rhymes' music and opinions have to be considered.

do you agree that some of the tenets of knowledge leave a little to be desired?

Yes, I think that's a pretty fair way to put it. But "Busta's lyrics have indicated that he is interested/invested in ideas that are part of an overall belief system that in some respects leaves a little to be desired" is not the same thing as "Busta is free and easy with racist politics". Has Busta Rhymes ever referred to the "white devil", for example? Machine says no.
 
 
Char Aina
10:44 / 05.07.06
well, if google can't find it then it doesnt exist, naturally.

i still feel that anyone who revels in his own status as a god by virtue of not only his knowledge and wisdom but his race is a racist.

i am not saying "but what if white people did it!?", hence my surprise at your bringing up white supremacy.

i am saying i dont like racism, and would go further, perhaps, to say that i consider anyone who espouses the tenets of the nation of gods and earths to be a racist or happy with racism unless they also explicitly say what they think is fucked up with it.

i require someone to distance themselves from the racism of a group they belong to if they want to be considered not to be racist.
 
 
Char Aina
10:50 / 05.07.06
sorry about the patchy nature of some of my posts, inciddentally.
i've been typing inbetween, and seem to be editing like a blind polar bear with no front legs.

i think i've caught all the missing bits, but let me know if shit still doesnt make sense after the moderation goes through.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:00 / 05.07.06
i am not saying "but what if white people did it!?"

Well no, you're leaving out the fact that they already do, and have done for hundreds of years. That's the point. We don't need a "what if?". When rappers (or anyone else) talk about the black man as a god, they are attempting to take back some pride and self-esteem, in spite of how they have been historically made to feel/think/believe that the colour of their skin etc. is a badge of shame, turning that on its head. It's very easy for white people to then say "ah, but don't you see, you should just ignore racial differences, don't turn your blackness into a badge of pride, we're all the same underneath!", because we haven't had to put up with the same shit.
 
 
Char Aina
11:20 / 05.07.06
i'm not sayig don't be proud of your blackness.
i am saying dont be telling me that it's not racist to say only one race is not god.

i do feel i am as much entitled to godhood as a black man.
does this somehow suggest to you that i am not taking enough account of white supremacy?
do you think i should be happy to be considered less by dint of my race because said race has historically had members who did the same to others?
i dont, and i would be surprised if you do.

i am intolerant of white supremacists and their ilk far more often than i am intolerant of black americans being racist.
thing is, i firmly believe that someone else being more racist than you doesnt mean you arent racist.
 
 
Jackie Susann
11:25 / 05.07.06
This is surely the weirdest thread derailment since the Ginsberg thread, right?
 
 
Char Aina
11:28 / 05.07.06
i'll say.
i'm not sure what the point of it is.

flyboy?
are you worried i might be a racialist?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:30 / 05.07.06
toksik, it's not about you, dude. It's about something you said, and whether it has any basis. Would you rather we just pretend you didn't say "he's alo pretty liberal with... the racist five percenter politics" and move on?
 
 
Char Aina
11:37 / 05.07.06
not at all.

he espouses their philosophy in interviews and on record.
i consider said philosophy to be racist.
he hasnt distanced himself from that racism and so is, to my mind and at the very least, accepting of racism.

i'm annoyed the article i'm looking for is not olnine, as it would cut quite neatly through all of this with some words from the man-mountain himself.

ach well.
 
 
bio k9
16:02 / 05.07.06
It was the December 1998 issue of Spin:

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:07 / 05.07.06
Can any more discussion of 5 percenter politics/racism happen in another thread so we can go back to THE JOY OF BUSTA?!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:28 / 05.07.06
He'd never wear a nice pink shirt like that anymore, would he?
 
 
Jackie Susann
22:14 / 05.07.06
Well, everyone would say he was biting Cam if he did.
 
 
Char Aina
22:31 / 05.07.06
i'd like to continue the discussion another day, and have already made a couple of abortive attempts at starting a thread.
i'll get on it when i'm not so harrassed.

sorry for the derail.
 
 
Jackie Susann
22:40 / 05.07.06
I think my favourite part of Busta's career was, like, 03 (I think), when he was the guest MC on every official remix, and every time there was a new one you'd be half 'not again...', but the other (winning) half was all, 'yay Busta!' He just always seems enthusiastic and energetic enough to get your attention (cf. Jay's 'I aint animated like, say, a Busta Rhymes') and you can kind of forgive him for weak tracks just for that.

I fucking love the beat on New York Shit, even though the lyrics are kinda meh.

The giant Touch It remix with, like, everyone is killer, too. (Papoose's verse with all the NY boroughs on his fingers is great!) I was less impressed with the consumed-with-its-own-importance sawed off minor key version with Jay and Nas. Whoever came up with the get low/turn it up gimmick is a genius.
 
 
Bruno
18:53 / 09.07.06
for toksik:

Track is 'Flipmode Squad vs Def Squad' off his first solo LP (his best solo effort in my opinion):

Mental slave grip on your brain like white people
My music will dominate the population like black people


I am relistening to the Scenario Remix,
Busta rips it up,
the guy used to be so good, it's a real pity.
Here's a video of the non-remix. The remix has a different beat and lyrics.
 
 
Lugue
12:13 / 10.07.06
Well,

yes,

that's all very nice and pleasant,

but...

"I Love My Bitch" is shit.

Yes?
 
 
Jackie Susann
06:37 / 11.07.06
I agree, I don't get why the fuck people like that track!
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
07:20 / 14.07.06
The 1st and only time I heard it I thought it was fine, tho not great. So. Why?
 
  

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