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The big push

 
  

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Spaniel
18:37 / 30.06.06
I wasn't fighting. Sib seemed to me to be attempting to delegitimise a rigorously planned approach to novel writing. I was simply trying to keep that space open - mainly because at that point no-one knew what kind of approach you would want to take, and what kind of novel you would want to write.

To quote me

...I learnt the hard way that I NEED to have a plan. Without one I simply can't get going.

The fact is, Mick may well be in the same boat


The key word there being "may".
 
 
sibyline, beating Qalyn to a Q
19:08 / 30.06.06
oh, i'm not arguing that a rigorously planned approach to literary novel-writing isn't legitimate. i'm just arguing that it's misguided!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:40 / 30.06.06
Mick:

If your novel has commercial potential you could do worse than approaching the lovely folks at Darley Anderson to be your agents when it's finished.
 
 
Spaniel
07:21 / 01.07.06
Off the top of my head, afew literary novels that were almost certainly rigorously planned:

Cloud Atlas
Bonfire of the Vanities
Most of Ian McKewn's work
The Cold Six Thousand (yes, I think it counts)

I think we should bear in mind that rigorous planning does not necessarily equate to following a formula, however I take the point that some planning methodologies do encourage forumlaic thinking. That said, creative, intelligent people should be able to take what they need and leave the rest.
 
 
sibyline, beating Qalyn to a Q
10:24 / 01.07.06
Agreed. I think I'm somewhat rabid about this issue because I see too many people spinning their wheels instead of pushing past the barrier of wanting to have something underneath their feet at all times. I structure my work but I can't know what the structure is until I start writing.

I haven't read David Mitchell. I want to. The only writer I really like who I know wrote outlines obsessively was Iris Murdoch, and I think I like her despite the fact that her structures are so schematic.

Here's a tidbit from Ian McEwan:

Q: What is your style of composition. "Saturday" feels like it unfolds in a series of set pieces. Do you know where they are going?

A: Not entirely. I'm fairly -- what's the word? -- unsystematic. I brood. I sort of mulch things around for a long time. There are certain things I avoid thinking about before I write, and even thinking about them gives them more shape than they should have before I get them there. I sort of brood until I'm driving myself nuts, and what I should do is write. And then what I am looking for is the tone, the style, the means by which I should tell a story. The very first bits of Saturday I wrote is Henry stepping out of the house on a fresh morning, seagulls in the sky, and some memory of childhood: a basalt rock formation by the sea. I thought, I don't know where this is going, but I'm sure at some point he'll step outside of his house. I just need to try this out: and with that I saw the prose. And then I started again. For this book I wanted a very pure style -- so that every page I wanted characters to emerge as if from nowhere. So this man gets out of bed and makes his way to the window, as if he materialized out of darkness, and forms in front of the reader's eye.
 
 
Spaniel
15:08 / 01.07.06
That's really interesting about McKewn because his books tend to feel really planned to me. He must have a terribly organised mind.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
12:56 / 04.07.06
In the realm of the maybe-not-so-literary-but-often-entertaining, isn't Stephen King notorious for just sitting down every morning and making it all up as he goes along?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:23 / 05.07.06
That would explain a lot.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:21 / 06.07.06
His books still have an idea or basic story you can sum up in a sentence though. "A famous writer gets captured and tortured by an insane fan", for example.
 
 
sibyline, beating Qalyn to a Q
12:05 / 06.07.06
i hate when marketing creeps into fiction writing. ok class, a la recherche du temps perdu in one sentence....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:47 / 06.07.06
"This madeleine doesn't half take me back," says bore.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:26 / 06.07.06
I'm no champion of King as a literary god, but I like his stuff: readable and fun, especially given his truly astounding level of output. A bit of same-novelitis, especially in his mid-career, but he's a decent workmanlike author.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:39 / 10.07.06
I always think that if the book makes a good movie (without the film version being almost unrecognisable) it's probably not a great book. Stephen King's books, famously, make excellent movies.

The problem I have with King is that the few times I have tried to read his stuff, inspired by e.g. The Shining, it's been randomly chosen (thought I'd try something new, not a book I've seen a film of) and unutterable, nonsensical toss. Needful Things started off quite well and then right at the end, the Devil appeared and flew off into the sky in a Cadillac. Completely bonkers, completely unneccessary (demon ex machina, basically - what's the Latin for that, Haus?)

And the less said about the story where the hotel maid gets pregnant by scarfing a writer's dried spooge off his sheets, the better.
 
  

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