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Magical prejudice, tribal loyalty, and lines in the sand

 
  

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Ticker
16:45 / 30.06.06
The problem is you can tell a bigoted asshat to take a flying leap and feel good about it. Try telling a fluff pagan "Really I don't want to sing 'We All Come From the Goddess'" and not feel like you've just mashed the Easter Bunny in front of a 5 year old.

..and you just have to wade through them to get to the people you want to meet. It's like having to go to the supermarket and hunt around for quality dark chocolate. By the time you find it, you're so overloaded and tired from the shiny multicolored brain noise that it hardly seems worthwhile to stagger through the checkout line.

I need the equivilant of a chocolatier for magical peers.
 
 
*
17:57 / 30.06.06
I thought that's what Barbelith was for?
 
 
Ticker
18:24 / 30.06.06
[thread rotty plug warning]

That occured to me after I posted it, especially as I shall be in range of many lovely Barbelith members next month when I'm in London for the day/night...

I'm not sure if any want to be treated like dark chocolate though?

[/thread rotty plug warning]
 
 
Quantum
18:46 / 30.06.06
I smell a magic minimeet in the Plough in the future to get some drunken bonding out of the way. How can we have proper feuds if we haven't met in the flesh and fallen out over Crowley's influence on Gardner then made up with a rousing song?
...and to Goddess shall return/like a drop of rain...

Then we can despise each other and avoid the middle man.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
22:13 / 30.06.06
Barbelith Temple drinks in the Plough when you are up in town, for sure.
 
 
grant
00:19 / 01.07.06
"Temple in the Plough" does have a wonderfully esoteric sound to it. Like some kind of Rosicrucian slogan.
 
 
Ticker
01:18 / 01.07.06
..if you want to poke me with sticks in London on july 31st tell me here

Quantum, if your loathe-a-thon happens without me I shall be very sad...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:09 / 02.07.06
Quants: "Politically correct," good grief. All due respect for the man's scolarship and whatall, but much of what Flowers/Thorsson comes out with is, well, whack.
 
 
Princess
08:33 / 03.07.06
Frazer would probably get on my tits too. I just get pissed off when people (as in modern fluff-wiccan people), having read one Starhawk book, start to tell me about the once world wide Goddess religion and how Wicca is basically the same as that religon because all deity is the same deity and thats how the original worshippers thought too.

I'm sure we're all aware that is high fluff, it just annoys me when people haven't done their research and then get "more ancient than thou" on my ass.

IT WAS MADE UP LESS THAT A 100 YEARS AGO. DEAL WITH IT!.

Hmm, maybe it's not believers that annoy me. Its people who just accept historically unlikely claims and then tell me off when they are questioned.

Actually, to be even more specific, it's my "friend" Alex. Wears her religion to cover the void she has for a personality. She's reincarnated from dinosaurs (I kid you not) and remembers all of her past lives, most of which she spent as a gay vampire hunter. She ties herself in with a long history of withc burning and hidden religion because it allows her to be more persecuted than anyone else.

I apologise to any Murray people, I was generalising, among your number there are certainly good folk. Turns out I only hated Alex.
 
 
Quantum
13:39 / 03.07.06
Sounds fair, reincarnated dinosaur vampire hunters are quite annoying at the best of times. People who claim ancestry to the wiccan druids of Ur piss me off too, but read this post by Trouser the Trouserian. Murray's not responsible for your friend Alex being so annoying, she's constructing a compelling narrative largely imported from bad fantasy stories and RPGs by the sounds of things.

I wonder who the fringe otherkin look down on? In the pagan heirarchy I've seen they were at the very very bottom.
 
 
Princess
21:55 / 04.07.06
Thanks for the link.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:15 / 04.07.06
Wait, I thought that was people who wrote furvert stories about Star Trek where Kirk is an ocelot? Or am in in the wrong heirachy?
 
 
Ticker
02:53 / 05.07.06
MC, that's the geek one. Which I think was funnier than the pagan one?
 
 
Quantum
09:45 / 05.07.06
The Geek heirarchy looks down on the Pagan heirarchy of course. Geek Pagans look down on furry fanfic trek/Rupert slash consumers who in turn look down on Molatar and gay dinosaur vampire hunters.

Makes you think though, even though it's in jest the 'who do you despise?' thing is essentially that silly heirarchy. I prefer a more holistic model the Ourobouros of Despite, where Moly looks down on Carroll because he has such a pitiful number of testicles, and thus the circle is complete.

(Molatar is a Christian weredragon with a +1 website of delusion by the way)
 
 
johnny enigma
10:25 / 05.07.06
I've got a bee in my bonnet the use of crystals (the kind you see in new age shops) because it seems to indicate a consumerist approach to spirituality. The basic message comes across to me as "Buy this crystal and your life will be better", which is exactly the same line as peddled by advertising hacks the world over (this doesn't mean I think they can't work, of course).
 
 
Doc Checkmate
12:55 / 05.07.06
Naturally, the legit-ass crystals with +5 mana and a resurrection from your discard pile are the ridiculously expensive ones. I know that's how they get us, but what can I say... if I don't buy it, another magician will, and he'll win the next time we go a few rounds at recess. Gotta catch 'em all.
 
 
Ticker
13:17 / 05.07.06
There is an an interesting relationship between value and cost. Most people nowadays look at cost as being money, not breaking it down further into time/effort spent earning said money, or cost as in the limitation one places on themselves by acquiring an item.

Our relationship to items dearly purchased resonates with the older idea of items dearly earned. A lot of folks don't know they can make a very powerful item/tool through direct work but rely on someone else's skill.

By working very hard to earn scraps of paper one can exchange them for an item someone else worked very hard (the customer always likes to see it this way) to produce. Many of us have managed to revisit this idea of value and place a greater emphasis on items/tools we know intimately and can clearly state how much effort as gone into their creation as well as our own energy. A focus on process not just product if you will.

Sometimes we need other people's areas of expertise and deep slice of insight. We may prefer to barter a thing of value that we created for theirs but sometimes we only have cash. The ugliness of profit versus honest value is an entire other issue that often besmirches the sale of items magical and non.

Besides I usually get the hairy eyeball when I go into the local New Age store and so prefer to haunt the bead shop. Better prices, nicer people, and less 'tude.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:55 / 05.07.06
I've got a bee in my bonnet the use of crystals

Ugh, I hear ya. Because blast-mining and forced child labour are sooooo spiritual, aren't they. I do use and work with crystals and rocks, but I like to find my own. I very much doubt that a hunk of polished quartz from Daffodil Pixie's Rainbow Dolphin Emporium is going to pack as much of a wallop, mojo-wise, as a piece you've picked up from the footpath whilst walking in your favourite bit of woods.
 
 
johnny enigma
08:14 / 06.07.06
Mordant - you hit the nail on the head. Every object on my altar has been given to me or has been found, and that'a the way I like it.
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:39 / 06.07.06
Most of my items are found or from charity shops, charity shops are fantastic, its like buying food in these places, you pick up the onion , test its firmness, get a overall feel for it while its in your hand and keep going til you get the right one, What i like about charity shops is that everything has a prior story, it comes with no packaging, you can pick up objects and get a feel for there story.

I like the notion that a small pot i bought covered in shells was bought by somebody at a seaside resort, as a present, unwanted it was given to charity, yet its representation of a day at the sea that somebody enjoyed is on my altar to the sea, along with things i have found while beach combing. some objects carry more than the simple story above, alot more. Some authors suggest you use brand new items so you can imprint yourself on to them, i guess that could be useful, but i prefer more experienced well travelled items, they have character of there own, spirit if you will that adds to the story that an altar may become.

I can see the value in using virgin parchment for a spell, but compare that to the value of using old moth eaten parchment thats been kicking around in a old womens loft, in a cabinet, from round about the 19th century, of course its what gives value to you. Old pictures are fantastic, usually lined with newspaper or paper from the day they were first framed, not only does the picture speak about its owner, but the newspaper speaks about the time it was framed in, what was being peddled as being of import at the time.

Value is a very hard thing to measure it can mean brand names and money to one person, a walk in the woods to hunt an object and a story to another. I think value is the import, meaning, love and devotion we imbue something with.
 
 
Ticker
13:10 / 06.07.06
right on .M.A.R.!

I'm setting up a new ritual space and not buying anything to bring into it. Everything new is either found along the nearby river bank or being gifted to me by friends. Last night one of my pals surprised the hell out of me by giving me an amazing sculpture of a woman's torso that also happens to be a lamp, which she felt needed a new home.
Many of the objects lining the small space have been used in my performance ritual work and it is very cool feeling to sense old energies mingling with new.

The energy and intent in shaping the space is already profoundly different and I believe it is due to the well traveled objects taking up residence. The river gifted me with some gorgeous drift wood from the recent floods as well as stones. The main altar is sensitized to the river and the hydraulic generators nearby.

The only exception for buying is with the equipment which has to be safe and undamaged for suspension work, the ropes have to be new. I'm trying to see if I can barter for them rather than buy them out right. I did however manage to find four eye rings that are perfect left over from an old roommate. The big carabiners are used but in fine condition and I dig their associations with being used for rock climbing.

The space has a thrum to it even now just in the early stages of being created. I don't believe it would have as much juice in it if I had not put as much effort into finding the right tools for it.
 
 
Quantum
13:32 / 06.07.06
Crystal trivia- a cat's eye stone is a natural fibre-optic with a cellular structure. You can read through a cat's eye like a screen but only through one alignment.

Parchment trivia- I've been given dozens of mortgage deeds about a century old by my mum, out of date documents about three feet across, hand written in copperplate by clerks long dead with sealing wax and ribbon on and full of antique jargon. What to do with them? They're beautiful and the firm just throws them away, my mum rescues them but after you've got a nice one framed on your wall what do you do with the other thirty? You can cut them into strips and make baskets, weave strips around a wand when wet so they dry in that shape, scrawl spells on the back of them, use them as props for Faustian pacts in a play... and there's still loads left.
 
 
PlanetNiles
10:49 / 12.07.06
I'm not predjudiced against fluffy new-age "woo woos" having described myself as one to wind someone up who respected me but hated "woo woos". I like to think of myself as being anti-predjudice adapting myself to offend the bigot-of-the-moment

However I do like to take the piss out of Goat Botherers. You know the sort, perverts so jaded that they can't get it up without a five hour evocation to the "Old Ones" and the molestation of a farm yard animal. Most of them are Thelemics or Satanists.

Whats up with Satanists? I mean most of them aren't actually Satanists they just call themselves that to offend Christians. People, you can't call yourself a Satanist unless you actually believe that the Christain God is dead, and you can't do that unless you actually believe it was alive to begin with. Listen to what so-called Satanists actually believe its more akin to what I'd call Egotheism; belief in yourself/your own divinity. I mean its just laziness. If you want to offend Christians then use their own bible to contradict their bigotry; works like a dream.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:03 / 12.07.06
I used to have pretty much the same opinion of Satanists and Satanism, but I've been forced to revise it somewhat through encountering people for whom some form of Satanism--usually in a theistic model, and probably syncretising Satan with some deity, eg Exu--is a valid and meaningful spiritual path.

But yeah, devil-worshipping pillocks in massive upside-down crosses = severe annoyance.
 
 
Ticker
12:57 / 12.07.06
I was at a small paranormal conference in Baltimore many years ago in the bar hanging out with some of the other youngsters attending. After several hours of schmooze with a pair of them, the couple in question exchanged a pointed look then breathlessly confided in me that they were Satanists.

I recall the distinct impression that they had no idea what the modern use of the term meant as they went on to explain to me that they followed Set. I think I must have made a face then asked if they meant they were followers of the Kemetic tradition but to no avail. I was confused.

I figured 'ah well at least they aren't likely to go hasslehoff the ever lovely John Anthony West then'.

I've only interacted with a few self proclaimed Satanists and my favorite is of course Ugly Shyla, who is a great artist and performer.

From what I hear the Satanists' orgs seem as riddled with drama and in fighting as any of the other occult ceremonial groups.
 
 
Ticker
12:59 / 12.07.06
Quantum,

I'd love some of the old parchments and would be happy to pay for posting them to the US.

thanks for the cat's eye tip as well!
 
 
Quantum
13:21 / 12.07.06
xk, here's a better idea- how about you fly to London and pick them up in person because I can't be bothered to post them? I'm going to be near the British Museum on July 31st and if you're not there they're going in the bin.
You silly person.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:25 / 12.07.06
Were they Temple of Set, or a spin-off therefrom?
 
 
Ticker
14:56 / 12.07.06
Quantum you are quite correct, I am a silly person.
 
 
Ticker
15:08 / 12.07.06
Having spoken to some highly educated folks from the Temple of Set I can now believe these folks in question had read about it, liked it, and perhaps incorporated it rather badly. Or perhaps they just had a very bad presentation style.

Maybe it was the lack of any clue about Set in the context of an ancient culture, or the melodramatic manner in which they confided in me, or maybe I was just in a really judgmental mood, but something about them rang like spit balls off of cardboard.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:15 / 13.07.06
Yeah, sounds like a familiar syndrome.
 
 
Ticker
14:59 / 21.08.06
Alright I've spent a bit processing something that makes my skin crawl and sets my teeth on edge enough to attempt useful dialogue. Please assist me by offering your own varied views on this so I can break it down further.

I attended a very kickass women's gathering this saturday. The organizers decided to kick off the 'go forth and do stuff' section with casting a circle, which involved calling the corners. This is exactly why I never go to these things and so miss out on the cool parts that happen later post ritual.

This was the magic moment when I had to buckle down my urge to wince and stamp footses. As I watched four people call the corners and two of them sketch pentacles in the air all I could think to do was keep myself from stepping out of the circle. It was harder than you think.

What's my problem(s)?

1. From watching the way in which the ritual was performed and listening to the dialogue the people were having about it, it was clear they were re-enacting circle casting rituals from other group rituals they had attended without examing the traditions these actions were sourced from.

2. The people involved in the ritual (circle casting) were not given a context for the ritual or asked if it was appropriate for them or if they would prefer another format. I was asked to call a corner and I declined politely then the organizers asked for other volunteers but that was it, no group building of a shared rite we all had access to understand.

Okay I love me some thoughtful public/group ritual. I do really I'm not a big 'keep it in the home' jerk. But when it lacks the thoughtfulness and doesn't connect with the people participating it registers as bad performance art to me. It makes me squirm.

I thought about it in the context of my prejudices regarding Ceremonial Magick, appropriation, and hippy fluffy paganism. I'm down with the thoughtful use of any of these things but the reflexive "this is how to cast a circle" or even that a circle is needed drives me bat-shit.

what I would have suggested instead:
(it was a women's empowerment event)

Perhaps have every person in the circle could speak of a women that inspires them, or a force which nurishes sisterhood/womanhood, but something personal. Perhaps instead of half assed pentacle sketching each member of the circle could have turned outwards, had a moment to decide what she wanted to leave outside and then gather what she wanted to bring into the circle.

After the circle was cast the organizers did call for each person to say her name and what intent she brought to the gathering. Really that had enough juice in it and was deeply heart felt. Why the need for empty symbolic hand waving that half the folks don't have a clue about and the other half just watched someone else do it at the last nature-fest?

..and for the love of all that's Holy instead of ending with a fluffy pagan Daughters of the Goddess song, could we have just all sang a happy nonesense jubble to the hostess' cats? You know the one that you make up inspired by the dog/cat splendor lounging on the sofa?
 
  

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