BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Doctor Who 1963-1989, 1996

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
12:26 / 22.06.06
Someone else is welcome to write up a general summary or if needed I can, but I felt I'd break from tradition and start talking right off about an era few talk about nowadays, 1970-1974 Jon Pertwee.

Feel free to take this thread wherever you like, I'm just trying to get it started.

Following the impish Pat Troughton, Jon Pertwee was the third Doctor. To be honest, he was never my favorite Doctor. In fact, due to his karate chops and being exiled to Earth working with UNIT, I referred to him as the anti-Doctor. It wasn't until much later that I learned that producer Barry Letts had distaste for karate and Terrance Dicks offered up a fictional style of akido since it had no offensive moves that I had a re-think. And while I viewed the inclusion of UNIT as a step towards accepting violence it was actually a way of showing the Doctor's pacifism and sense of universal harmony. This Doctor felt that life in its varied forms and shapes deserved a chance to live.

Only in the past two years did I enjoy Pertwee with his lip stroking habit and bug-out-eyed death throw acting, fluffy collars and velvet smoking jackets. I became enamored of him perhaps because he embraced the late sixties, a period whose music and writing I admire.

Or maybe it's the madcap stories he had.

While season 7, Pertwee's first, was very much a mature approach to Doctor Who with its social awareness and low-fi technology, the 8th introduced the Master and the following three years were all over the place with alien mining strikes, the legend of Atlantis and killer plastic dafodils. Say what you will, but it wasn't dull. His heavy reliance on the sonic screwdriver and other gadgets has become the stuff of legends but in reality he did have to work on these gadgets to get them to function properly... including the absurd line 'reverse the polarity of the nutron flow.'

While it started off very serious and hard sci-fi featuring the first Auton story (later seen in 'Rose'), alien astronauts that kill by touch, the first parallel world story in Dr Who, and the return of not one but two pre-Human races The Silurians and the Sea Devils, the later part of his five year tenure as the Doctor (only upped by his successor Tom Baker) was full of stories as varied as the epic 'Frontier in Space,' the first multi-Doctor story 'the Three Doctors' and the self-explanatory classic 'Invasion of the Dinosaurs.'

The Third incarnation of the Doctor, and the program, featured a daring departure from the then established formula by exiling the Doctor to Earth. This tactic was developed to save money, but in the long run it helped establish the Doctor in the minds of the viewers who finally got a point of reference not seen since the time of the first Doctor, William Hartnell (four of his companions were of contemporary Earth).

His companions ran the gamut of Liz Shaw, a scientist who gave the Doc a run for his money in the lab, Jo Grant who was more of a bumbling cutie (depending on the writer) and the memorable Sarah Jane Smith, created as a voice for women's lib at the time.

His last story involved the destruction of his enormous ego and killer puppet spiders. Well loved by many, Jon Pertwee's era brought the program from the brink of cancellation and firmly set the Doctor as an anti-establishment figure, a starry-eyed alien humanist with a truckload of gadgets and an unbeatable energy... unless you were a puppet spider.

Suggested stories:

Spearhead From Space (first story)
Ambassadors of Death
Day of the Daleks
Terror of the Autons (first app of the Master)
The Daemons
The Time Warrior (first app of Sarah Jane)
Invasion of the Dinosaurs
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:11 / 22.06.06
I adore the Tom Baker story Pyramids of Mars. It's in an Edwardian period setting, so the BBC were in their element- and then the brilliant subversion of a country house being overtaken by a force of ancient, monstrous evil.

The "Mummies" look very silly at first. Yet, when they bumble through the forest, they become very scary.

A lot of the ideas in this episode pre-empt Stargate and are done infintely better.

Does anyone else like Pyramids of Mars?

Moving on, I'd be interested to see what people who have only seen the new series think on seeing an example of the old series for the first time?
 
 
sleazenation
15:22 / 22.06.06
I think the 1996 TV Movie is an intreresting example of how not to bring back an old TV series, which is not to say it did not have any redeeming features, but it does serve as a stark comparison to the first episode of the new series...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:46 / 22.06.06
Just take the introductary speech where he talks about returning the Master's remains from Skaro to the Timelords... what the fuck was the audience to make of that?? Even longtime fans must have dropped a few pieces of popcorn at that bit.

Way to alienate a whole new audience, folks, thanks!

For those of you who have not seen the TV Movie, after 7 years of being away from the screens, Paul McGann was brought in to play the 8th Doctor in what many call the US TV Movie or the Fox Movie since it premiered in the US on Fox-TV.

The film was a Canadian/UK co-production that was a long time coming. Sylvester McCoy was brought in to play the 'old' Doctor for the first few moments before he lands in San Francisco and gets shot in a gang fight.

Yep, first time the States and he gets a cap in his ass. Nice one.

Then the Master turns into a cgi snake-thing and posesses Eric Roberts. This is not a hallucination, you read it correctly... Eric Roberts plays the Master.

Actually he doesn't do half bad as the Master.

McGann is a very capable Doctor but is saddled by one of the worst plots ever. The Master is posing as the Doctor and plans on opening the Eye of Harmony inside the TARDIS to.. er... I forget the rest but even what I wrote makes no real sense. The visuals were fantastic, the music not bad (though it's perhaps the worst version of the signature theme since McCoy), but the story is horrendous, confusing, and alienating to a new audience.

It was a proposed pilot that did not get picked up.

McGann went on to perform in audio dramas which I've not heard and a few books got written about the 8th Doctor who went down in obscurity as the oddest incarnation of the Doctor simply because he was only seen once.

... so now you know.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:07 / 22.06.06
D'you know, I'm a huge Who fan and I still haven't actually seen the whole McGann shenanigans.

I fell asleep in the middle. The beginning and the end, though, I can safely say were shit. Sadly, this means I still WILL watch it, for the sake of completion. And it'll no doubt hurt to do so. Hurt me in my very soul.
 
 
Billuccho!
17:18 / 22.06.06
Moving on, I'd be interested to see what people who have only seen the new series think on seeing an example of the old series for the first time?

That'd be me, then. Let's see...

I'd never seen a second of Doctor Who before Eccleston. This is mainly because I'm (a.) American, and (b.) the old series was on the way out when I was very young.

But as luck would have it, I ended up being a geek anyway, so of course I'd *heard* about this fabled Doctor Who, a crazy British sci-fi series that, from my estimation, was like Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, only British, in space, and with lots of scarves.

However, the new series hit Sci-Fi, and I knew that a few writer pals of mine had been influenced by the old show, so I checked it out. And it was silly and very B-movie-ish. Yet there were a few odd moments of brilliance, so I kept watching. This led to me researching the old series and the mythos, and continuing to watch the show on Sci-Fi. Like I said, I'm a geek; I don't watch a show, I immerse myself in it. Then someone happened to post a link to where I could download and view the Tennant episode New Earth. And then, well, I slowly became hooked with the new show and have proclaimed it to be "the new Buffy."

But, you know, the old show left me curious. So I've been watching some old stories that a couple hardcore fans on another website deemed to be some of the best. I'm not sure if you folks will like my thoughts, and I see that this post is becoming gigantic, but alas:

Does anyone else like Pyramids of Mars?

I'll tell you what. Everyone seems to love this story. I did not enjoy it. I didn't find it scary or interesting at all, and too much of it was just too silly for me. Chickenwire robot mummies and their uniboobs of doom? Sorry.

I blame the format, though, and I'll tell you why. The four-part format is far too aimless and drawn out. I vastly prefer the 45-minute done-in-ones to the 25-minutes-a-chapter foursomes. The pacing is just abysmal, where we end up with nothing happening for three episodes, and then all the good stuff occurs in the fourth part. I liked part four of Pyramids, becuase Sutekh was cool... why couldn't they have gotten around to that earlier, instead of plodding about doing nothing? Sarah Jane was boring (although I loved her in School Reunion).

Like I said, it could be because I'm American and these shows were before my time.

Same thing happened with City of Death, the first old Who ep I saw. Co-written by my favorite ever author Douglas Adams, you said? Awesome! But there's little plot. The dialogue is great, there's some good moments, but half the first episode is focused on the Doctor and Romana wandering around doing nothing. Okay, they needed to have all these shots because they wanted the trip to Paris to be worth the money, but it goes nowhere. The plot's a little out there. But surprisingly, what I thought was mediocre at first turned out to be one of the best I've seen.

I also liked Robots of Death. It managed to carry a sense of excitement throughout all four parts and the robots were actually creepy with their Greek-tragedy-mask-like faces. Leela was a neat idea for a companion. But still, it dragged. Two or three parts would've been sufficient.

Tom Baker plays the character too quiet, too... understated. Eccleston and Tennant had led me to believe The Doctor was an over-the-top science hero on the verge of madness. Maybe it's a fault of the new show, but frankly, I prefer the exaggerated version of the Doctor. He's a time-traveller from another planet, he should be big and weird.

I only saw a few seconds of Peter Davison, but he seemed alright. Then I watched Sylvester McCoy's "Curse of Fenris," which also dragged but had a neat fourth part, what I sensed was a culmination of a bunch of plots and a view of the Doctor as a manipulative bastard. But some of the characters had no point in existing (the vicar especially) and the vampire girls were silly and sucked at acting. And the sea beasts/vampires/whatever the hell they were were odd. I still don't get what they had to do with vikings, Norse mythology, or whoever this Fenric guy was.

The only other one I've see (I think) was the very first episode, An Unearthly Child. It was great, even though the Doctor only shows up halfway through it. Okay, so I don't understand how or why he has a granddaughter named Susan, of all things, but the pacing was well-done, the acting was pretty good, and Hartnell played the Doctor as a complete git, which I loved. (And they must've used the same Tardis set for yeeears!) I imagine it was the start of an arc, but it worked perfectly fine as a done-in-one.

Fairly soon I'll be sitting down to watch the Android Invasion. We'll see how that goes.

And thanks to the post above, I'm very interested in seeing some Pertwee episodes now. They sound fun.

The old show hasn't sold me yet, but I'm going to sick through it.
 
 
Billuccho!
17:23 / 22.06.06
Er, stick through it, that is. I hate to have you all thinking that I'm vomiting my way through the series. Sorry.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:31 / 22.06.06
I figure I may as well use the youthful part of this thread to launch a defence of Sylvester McCoy. OK, Bonnie Langford was terrible, but- y'know what? I don't really remember any of her contribution now. Ace was, well, not ace, exactly, but pretty good. And there were some great stories- Ghost Light, for example (one of my all-time favourites, really, along with Baker's The Horror Of Fang Rock and Davison's Black Orchid, and yeah, Ecclestone's The Empty Child- Who's always done Gothic horror well), and Paradise Towers- which was like Ballard's High-Rise, except with cannibals and Richard Briers- RICHARD FUCKING BRIERS!!!

I think the show's popularity was probably on the way out (no statistics to back this up, so I could just be talking shit) at that point, so a few missteps- Ms Langford, for example, and the Happiness Patrol (though even THAT had some good ideas)- killed it. Which was a shame, really, as one of the best things Who ever had going for it was that it could try new stuff every four weeks or so. Sometimes it didn't work, but nobody really cared, because there was enough confidence that the next really mad idea they had would be a blinder to keep people watching.

I mean, he wasn't the best by a long shot- I'd have to go with the cliche here, and say that it was Tom Baker, cos he was The Doctor when I first watched- but I think he's vastly underrated.
 
 
Lama glama
17:34 / 22.06.06
A long time fan here, having watched the series on UKGold when I was a child (I was three at the end of McCoy's run, so I sadly missed the chance of watching the episodes as they aired).

For some reason, McCoy is my favourite Doctor. I think this has something to do with the fact that he seems to enjoy playing the Doctor a great deal and this overshadows his sometimes weak acting and tendency to girn. I have a good deal of his DVD releases and have to say that I did not enjoy the Curse of Fenric. I thought part one showed promise, but like a huge deal of Who serials the middle parts lagged to the extent that I considered giving up. The final part is a lot of fun (even if it does have Sophie Aldred's worst performance since..well, the last time she was on screen) despite the plot being all over the place.

McCoy's best serial is the tight three parter, "Ghost Light." It plays to the production strengths of the BBC at the time and is mostly a period piece, with some oddball alien elements thrown in. McCoy and Aldred are undoubtedly at their best here and the outstanding supporting cast seems to aid them in overcoming their previously amateurish performances. Having said that, everybody needs to check out McCoy's infamous girning session in part 3. You'll think that Tennant is a stoney-faced accountant after seeing that.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:34 / 22.06.06
I quite enjoyed Rememberance of The Daleks when I saw it for the first time last week.

I have all of Tom Baker's run in an insanely large bittorrent file, and have so far only watched Robot, which was mostly pretty bad I think. I may jump ahead to City of Death and Pyramids of Mars on recommendations rather then watch it straight through.
 
 
Lama glama
17:36 / 22.06.06
Sort of cross posted with Stoatie there.
 
 
Lama glama
17:39 / 22.06.06
Don't overlook the early part of Baker's run! It has some wonderful stories, like Genesis of the Daleks and the excellent Ark in Space. The latter is one of my favourite Baker stories, surpassed only by the Talons of Weng Chiang.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:48 / 22.06.06
Bill, let me know when you get to Colin Baker. I'm convinced that Tennant is channeling him. Sure, Colin is far more camp but... I'm gonna get stoned for saying this... Colin Baker is a better actor.

Drink a tall coffee and watch Two Doctors and you'll see his range come across quite well.

And have a nice tall Gin before you watch Timelash with yer mates... it's a camping contest between Colin Baker and Blakes 7's Paul Darrow. Genius.

Also, the high energy is partly down to covering so much ground in 45 minutes. Why else does Tennant run the gamut from giggly to angry? The 4 part formula works most of the time, when the writers compose the stories tightly enough to accomodate the formula.

The new series could learn a lot from the old 4 part formula. New Earth would have been a great 2-4 parter with all the hospital patients, but... no time. And imagine if John Lumic in the Rise of the Cybermen had been infected by nanobot cyberman parts, parts that passed through N-Space into this alt reality to recreate the cyber race? THAT would have been great. But alas... no time. Instead it's just a big coincidence.

Watch the Seeds of Doom for a great 6 parter that utilizes the episodic format very well. It's essentially two stories; one two parter and a four parter.

Also, part of Dr Who's appeal is how you're introduced to it/when. With the new show it's going to be very weird to go back to 1976 and watch Tom Baker on a studio floor blowing into a monster's tendril. It's just... like another planet's cabel access a lot of the time. I first saw it in the 70's at my uncle's and later in the 80's when I had a LOT of time on my hands.

And I'll stand by McCoy. He brough a very weird energy to the part. Like a mix between Troughton and Tom Baker, he was mysterious, childlike and bubbling with enthusiasm. Ofcourse he did have Delta and the Bannermen and if I ever get mad at someone I should force them to watch Dragonfire, but he really could have turned the show around if he had arrived just two years later. say what you will, but his era had the first hints of momentum for the program in ages.

I'm convinced 1989 was just bad timing.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:14 / 22.06.06
I'm convinced 1989 was just bad timing.

EXACTLY!!!

I liked Colin Baker too- he frightened me, which was cool- to be honest, I've liked all of them, to varying degrees, except the little of McGann I stayed awake for.

I liked Curse of Fenric, actually- largely BECAUSE the plot was all over the place. It's hard to put into words, but the thing I think Who does best is completely fucking bonkers plots that just about manage to make almost enough sense to carry on to the next episode. It's ramshackle. Other shows either make sense, and live by it, or don't, and don't care. With the possible exception now of Lost, though it remains to be seen whether they can keep all those balls in the air.

This is exactly why Ghost Light is one of my favourite Who stories EVAH!!!11!- nicely sets up the atmosphere, keeps getting a bit weirder, then goes utterly apeshit towards the end. Without too much spoilerage for those who haven't seen it, I kind of like what happens to the anti-Darwin priest, and the whole reason the "thing" (for want of a less spoilerific word) under the house is insane is just fantastic.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:22 / 22.06.06
Hmmm, McCoy doesn't actually seem to be underated at all round here, but I've never yet missed a chance to voice McCoy love. I'm probably biased since while i'd been watching Who since Baker the First, McCoy was probably the one I was actually the perfect age for. However I'd still make an argument now for his being one of the best Doctors ever, and in my little world actually the best, singular. McCoy bought a fascinating darkness and complexity to the role, which harkened back to Hartnoll and Troughton, but probably took it even farther than they did. For me while the rest of the Doctors's were fun McCoy was one who comes across as the most well constructed character, McCoy struck me as being far more like a renegade hero from a race of incredibly knowledgeable demi-gods ought to be. He's a good guy when it comes right down to it, but he saw things in the extreme big picture and of all the Doctors he's the one the bad guys ought to be the most terrified off. The fourth Doctor won't commit genocide, the seventh will trick you into wiping out you're own species and seem to largely enjoy it. On the other hand I loved those moments that made me doubt the seventh Doctor's all knowingness and make me think that mabe he was just a mad old bastard, who was doing all of these over the top potentially really bad things and only getting good results out of luck. The point in Rememberance of the Daleks where Ace tells him he can't use some piece of equipment because he trashed it and he suddenly shouts like a petulant child something along the lines of 'I can do anything I want' was genuinely spine chilling. So I think complex, interesting portrayal that still bears up to be being analysed today. And by the way Bollocks to all those comentators that talked about Eccs being a darker, harder Doctor than we'd seen before on Doctor Who confidential last year - McCoy was far harder.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:28 / 22.06.06
Colin Baker as well really could have been, should have been amazing. He wasn't an at all bad actor, actually quite the opposite. His first scene with the 'Changes M'Dear and it seem not a moment too soon' was absolutely brilliant. It's just a shame the writers choose to have him then immediately try to throttle his assistant and then dress up as a clown. Apparently he was told he'd be dressed in some sort of black and silver outfit when he signed on, but it was decided this outfit looked too much like the master. It's a real shame, he could have been a great Doctor if he'd had the scripts.
 
 
sleazenation
19:00 / 22.06.06
Sad thing is that Colin Baker's best story was probably a comic - the Voyager stuff where a Life Lord charges the Doctor with the task of retrieving maps stolen by a fellow timelord. The Doctor's companion in this task? A shapeshiter who has decided to stay in the form of a penguin for 'personal reasons'.

A script that was great fun and brilliantly detailed John Ridgway artwork...
 
 
■
19:52 / 22.06.06
Ok, my Doctor love list, in no perticylar order.

Hartnell. I had a friend who lent me lots of rediscovered Hartnell on video when I was about 18, and I tried very hard to get into it, but his heart was never in it. The only reason he managed to nail the aloof strange traveller is because he was an aloof, strange man who thinks most of it is below him. Strangely, the pacing in some of those early shows (particularly stuff like The Chase) is actally very good, especially compared to some of the JNT-era stories. I know, it set up the mythos and gave us some great characters such as The Celestial Toymaker, the Daleks and the Mechanoids, but it also has the bloody Menoptera. Respect due, but I won't be revisiting it soon.

Troughton. A step up from Hartnell, because he's clearly enjoying himself and getting into it. One of my favourites when I was a wean was The Krotons, which they showed as part of a retropective season. Those guys scared the crap out of me, but because they were black and white, I knew they weren't real. I think it also gave me a lifelong weakness for women with bob haircuts (qv Wendy Padbury as Zoe).

Pertwee. I can see why many people rate his as the definitive Doctor. I think the earthbound situation worked very much in his favour, as the recurring cast of UNIT and The Master (Delgado was SO much more evil than Ainley, wasn't he?) gave it the ensemble feel which worked so well so much later for Buffy. It also meant that the wierdness could be related to something we knew - the British countryside. And although we can look back and laugh at the WhoMobile and Bessie, it's clear how desperately cool they would have been at the time, especially as they would have been up against all sorts of competition from the many ATV serials such as UFO - they had Gerry Anderson models, Who had REAL CARS THAT FLEW!!! (well, kind of). He also emphasises that whole investment in humanity as important theme which Tennant is over-milking. I like Pertwee, but he'll always be Worzel Gummidge to me, whih I hated.

Lord Tom of Baker. He IS the Doctor. Having warched an awful lot of old Who in the past year, I know that if I come across a Tom series, I know it won't be a chore. there are very few, if any truly bad Tom stories (Nimon, Face of Evil). He does seem to be a little too passive, letting the action slide by sometims while appearing to do very little, but when he does act BOY dos he nail it. It also helps that he had some of the best writers, directors and script editors of the whole run, just before JNT started screwing things up. The boggly eyes, and sheer physical presence make him by far the most truly alien Doctor and also the most genuinely caring.

Davidson. The first Doctor I was old enough to watch an entire run of. He had his moments, and had a few good arcs (I recall the White and Black Guardian stuff scared the cack out of me for a good year) but was hampered by some dreadful assistants: Tegan and Adric in particular. The production values were fairly high (I remember being gobsmacked by Castrovalva, even if it doesn't stand up well now) and there were a lot more space-based SF stories than before, which was a nice change. Still, for every Caves of Androxani, there was a Time Flight. And WHY did they see fit to do Snakedance AND Kinda? One was bad enough.

Doctor Colin. Oh, god. I don't care how good an actor he was, I can't think of a single story of his that I liked. I was impressed when I first saw the end of Trial of a Time Lord, but now I've seen it again, I know I was wrong. Friends have said Revelation was good, but I have never seen it. No, I want to waste no more time on him an his crappy costume.

McCoy. Yay the McCoy! Unfortunately, when he was on I was in a crappy three-year relationship with someone who knew when it was on she could always catch me at home on the phone and make me miss it. I would catch the odd one or two, though, and adored the way it was building to something, and we had all those dark hints alluding to a backstory that undermined what we thought we knew. Although there are two or three stories which are very similar (to this day I can't separate Battlefield and Silver Nemesis in my mind), no Doctor has yet come close to both capturing the essence of the Doctor as I see him/want him to be and enjoying the part.

McGann. Did the best of a bad job. Could have been great, but probably wouldn't have stuck it long anyway.

Richard E Grant. Did anyone bother with Shalka? I must see if it's still around.

Did I miss anyone? Oh, yeah, Cushing. He was all right, but only because he had Bernard Cribbins around.
 
 
sleazenation
20:09 / 22.06.06
dude - you missed the curse of fatal death - live action richard e grant as the doctor - plus hugh grant, rowan atkinson, jim broadbent and joanna lumley - all doctors...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
20:13 / 22.06.06
Cube: It's Davison, actually. Funny thing is that the Press called him Davidson a few times as well. And I think that the initial announcement of Doctor #9 was that Christopher Ecclestone had nabbed the part.

Do watch Revelation of the Daleks. It's one of the weirdest stories since it features a great story, a decent cast and the Doctor does pretty much nothing in it.

My other recommendation is the Hartnell story 'the War Machines.' The man just nails the part down in a way no one else has, Tom included.

But hey, this is all just my preference.

Seeing as how the program gave us 'Talons of Weng Chiang' and 'Paradise Towers,' it clearly appeals to all sorts.
 
 
sleazenation
22:10 / 22.06.06
My recommendation for old skool who would be Genesis of the Daleks - Tom Baker as the Doctor, Sarah Jane as one of the companions, and the Doctor charged by the timelords with the mission of attempting to prevent the Daleks becoming the powerful evil force that they become- they go back in time in an attempt to avert their creaion, and when they fail they are force to consider comitting genocide... Mary Whitehouse didn't like it one little bit - this really has it all, including running down corridors...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
11:55 / 23.06.06
So mainly the praise seems to be coming out for McCoy here, am I right?

It's unusual in Who fandom (in my experience), but his era introduced many new ideas and the new running theme of the 'Doctor's Agenda' or as I like to put it 'the Doctor's Hitlist' as he starts wiping out enemies left and right... aside from the Master whom he assumes can survive anything. It was also an era that stressed importance on the companion, well on Ace (who really wanted to get to know Mel??), who was the first companion to bravely stand up to a Dalek... armed with only a baseball bat.

So here's to McCoy!

Any other praises to be given?
 
 
sleazenation
14:13 / 23.06.06
I think much of Barbelith was of an age that grew up with McCoy's Doctor, which is why he features so highly here...
 
 
GogMickGog
10:31 / 24.06.06
I have a distinct memory of seeing a trailer for Mccoy era Who on TV as a nipper, asking my folks what it was and being politely re-assured that it would be "too scary" for someone like me.

Fair point. Even the old granny in Mary Poppins gave me the shits.

As far as vintage Who goes, Tomb of The Cybermen will always be a favourite as it does that sort of ancient/future thing very well and it's really top Troughton era stuff. Another story I adore as it was the first I ever had on video was Pertwee's The Claws of Axos, with the creepy classical looking aliens that turn all blobby and suck the life out of nonsense speaking tramps. Now THAT was television.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:47 / 24.06.06
The first episode of Dr Who I remember is the regeneration into McCoy and I covered my eyes, screamed and ran out of the room. This led to me missing Mel completely and only feeling gutsy enough to watch it again when my next door neighbour's girlfriend became a regular.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
14:57 / 24.06.06
See?

McCoy ain't for everyone!
 
 
sleazenation
18:26 / 24.06.06
That's ok anna, I think most of us who saw bonnie Langford in the Tardis kind of want to forget the horrors we had to endure...
 
 
Lama glama
18:28 / 24.06.06
Terror of the Vervoids people, just give it a chance!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:03 / 24.06.06
The late 80s stuff I like because it chimes in pleasantly with stuff like Red Dwarf and Maid Marion. I like all of it though. I like that every week there were aliens and spaceships and none of this bloody teenage american "oo I fancy so and so, ah but what about my identity issues" crap you see in Buffy and Star Trek. And I like the new series because they know the right ratio. I actually care about Rose and Mickey because it's not getting in the way of the aliens.
 
 
Billuccho!
01:49 / 25.06.06
Watched a couple more oldies recently.

Android Invasion: Tom Baker as the Doctor and Liz Sladen as Sarah Jane. I don't get why they were so popular back in the day. They're kinda dull. However, the premise of this story rescues it, even if the premise disappears by the third ep. A copycat town used to practice an alien invasion... awesome! Even if they don't get around actually practicing the invading. Or that their actual plan does not remotely involve this town. Okay, so this one was riddled with plot holes, but I thought the whole plot was a lot of fun. It was an exciting mess. But I enjoy evil robot twin plots. And there were a couple of good lines. "I feel so disoriented." "This is the disorientation chamber." "That makes sense."

Doctor Who: The Movie: Yes. The '96 movie. With McGann. And Eric goddamn Roberts. You know what? This was horse shit. I don't think I've got to say any more. It was just absolutely terrible in every way.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:42 / 25.06.06
Douglas Adams-era Doctor Who. From what I've seen, not very good. Thank God the production office turned down Revenge of the Kricketmen, Shada would have been self-indulgent enough if it had been made.

Then there's John Nathan-Turner. It was on his watch that some of my favourite stories were made and some of the best concepts were used. Pre JN-T regenerations just happened, as JN-T came aboard we had the end of the Tom Baker era, with a series of stories about decay, evolution and death and the introduction of a fifth Doctor who's regeneration was seriously wrong, we had an introduction of a Sixth Doctor who sadly is known as a demonstrative bully but if left alone might have had an interesting arc somewhat similar to that of the Ninth Doctor, and a Seventh Doctor who was taking steps to actually do things and deliberately seek out and deal with menaces. The Curse of Fenric is a fascinating story as in the end it's all about the Doctor and Ace. Disaster almost strikes because the Doctor is blind to her humanity. It's about adolescence really.

But, but, but... There were also terrible things about JN-T's era. A feeling that Doctor Who should and had to compete with yer Return of the Jedi and Star Trek films when it had only a fraction of a budget. Huge chunks of cheese and ham that were sometimes put on screen in place of characters. As already mentioned poor old Colin Baker had some of the worst stories to deal with, I met Colin onec and he said that he and Michael Jayston were left to improvise a number of the courtroom scenes in Trial of a Timelord and I think it shows. That story is spectacularly bad (except for the initial minute or so when the TARDIS gets sucked onto the space-station, it's about the only thing from TOS that would stand comparison with the effects of today, and all done through models) and incoherent by the end. Robert Holmes, who wrote the last two episodes was dying at that point, which is why we have such ideas as the Valeyard being a bad future version of the Doctor and Mel leaving with the Doctor despite the fact they haven't met yet, without anyone saying anything. I watched 'I, Claudius' last year and was struck by how the quality levels of the production were as bad (by current standards) as the studio episodes of Doctor Colin, which was made best part of a decade later.

And the guest stars, Jesus wept, the guest stars... Bonnie Langford wasn't actually that bad. When she was allowed to walk around and do stuff her character was okay. It was when she had to stand and scream that she was irritating. Ken Dodd, Hale and Pace, Kate O'Mara, T P McKenna, Jessica Stevenson, Nicholas Parsons, none of them bad in and of themselves but JN-T always got them in publicity and made it look as if Doctor Who was some light-ent variety show. JN-T treated the show as if he were Lew Grade.

The TV Movie... The only thing I think was worth keeping was the TARDIS set. It's only looking back now that I see that the amount of continuity would be off-puting to new viewers. It's already more than half-way through the movie when the real story, of the Master trying to steal the Doctor's life and TARDIS starts, and by that point you've already had things like his two hearts, Daleks, Time Lords, regeneration and bloody Grace 'still cries at a good opera'. I was a bit off-put at first by how RTD approached explaining the back story of the Doctor when he took over, now I realise that that is how you do it. The TV movie wouldn't have been so bad as it was, if it hadn't been made nearly a decade after the last episode.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:41 / 25.06.06
Douglas Adams-era Doctor Who. From what I've seen, not very good.

Yeah. City of Death, for me, was a little too silly. I know it was a comedy, but still.
 
 
Billuccho!
15:31 / 25.06.06
Thank God the production office turned down Revenge of the Kricketmen

Me too. Because then we got the third Hitchhiker's book instead, which was my favorite.
 
 
Saveloy
12:24 / 26.06.06
Yay for all the McCoy love!

'Remembrance of the Daleks' is possibly my favourite Who story of the lot, and I would recommend it to fans of current Who wanting a gentle intro to the classic stuff - it moves along at a similar pace and generally.. i dunno.. 'feels' current. I know what it is: it feels confident and ambitious, like the new lot.

Tons of action, intriguing plot and refs to Timelord history, a horrible *horrible* little girl, a cheeky reference to the first broadcast, brilliant performances from Sophie Aldred (Ace = best companion evah, in this story) and McCoy ("Unlimited rice pudding!"), and Dalek-on-Dalek violence.

But most of all: The Special. Weapons. Dalek.

*swoon*
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:48 / 26.06.06
(Ace = best companion evah, in this story)

"Small human female sighted on Level 3."

"WHO YOU CALLING SMALL!?"

Rememberance was a fantastic story, and the first story where we got to see Ace as a companion (you could obviously get away with carting around Nitro-9, a boom box, and a baseball bat in 1960's London pre-Time War). There was also the underlying themes of racism (Mrs Smith's sign on her boarding house window, the far-right extremists teaming up with renegade daleks) and Ace's obvious hatred of it.

Plus, RPGs in school!

McCoy is definitely in my top 3 of Doctors (the other two being Troughton and Baker). All the Doctor's represent different parts of his personality being exagerated. The Seventh was the mystical/mysterious side of him. Battlefield was another extremely good episode I thought, and the first time (AFAIK) that The Doctor encounters people who recognise him from experience with a future incarnation.

(C'mon RTD, give us some Camelot action in the next season.)
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply