BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Head Shop >

Independence

  
 
Quantum
14:15 / 07.06.06
Talking about national tongues elsewhere Lurid mentioned Catalunya's independence movement- Catalunya, which has two official languages, Spanish (Castellano) and Catalan (Català). Almost everything I know about it is from fiction (Patrick O'Brian) but it got me thinking about independence more generally, probably sparked by the nationalism of the World Cup and the English Only thread too.
To start, there's plenty of countries that claimed independence from the British Empire or France (most of Africa for example) and a few more that want more autonomy (Cymru etc.). Ireland is of course a prime example of the troubles that inevitably arise, terrorism and war often occur over independence (IRA, Basque) and the freedom fighter/terrorist distinction is difficult (impossible?) to draw.

Here's a legal definition-

One of the essential attributes of a state under international law is external sovereignty—that is, the right to exercise freely the full range of power a state possesses under international law. Recognition of a state as independent necessarily implies that the recognizing states have no legal authority over the independent state. The status of a fully independent state should be contrasted with that of dependent or vassal states, where a superior state has the legal authority to impose its will over the subject, or inferior, state.

Personally I'm for electoral reform and the devolution of power to national and regional assemblies, to make democracy more locally relevent and decrease the influence of the central govternment, rather than civil war and terror attacks (Devolution not Revolution!). But I don't live in the Pyrenees or Kurdistan.

I'm imagining there may be a difference between US and UK attitudes on this due to the, er, war of independence, but I don't know. There's also the comparison to be drawn between personal and national independence, the influence of ethnicity, geographical and cultural boundaries...
What do you think?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:25 / 07.06.06
I'm interested in this and I think I've got a worthwhile contribution to make, but by the same token I don't know nearly enough. Please, tell me if I've ogt the wrong idea.

Well, the major argument used against independence from a colonial power, by agents of that power, is that when the colonial power is removed, a vacuum is created, into which steps the next local dictator. However bad the empire is, runs the argument, it's better than Saddam.

Now, I think that yes, there is this potential for this power vacuum to form, but it need not occur- the separation can always happen peacefully and civilly and moves for independence are not violent by their very nature, but become increasingly more so the longer the empire sticks around. Because of this, the argument is flawed: had the British empire continued to this day, I'm sure we would be seeing horrifying violence- at least, that's what seems to be the case to me. India produced Ghandi, whereas the French colonies that continued after the BE fell produced Ho Chi Minh.
 
 
118118
23:50 / 14.06.06
There is, of course, the communist arguemnt that national independence diverts people from what really affects them, that people will have to kill each other, and that it divides people. I don't have much to add, really.
 
  
Add Your Reply