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BMF
15:40 / 29.05.06
So...

I've never posted here, before, so please excuse me if this seems rude, asking for you to advise me, without having contributed before...Anyway...

I started a degree last year, in Thames University, London. Living in Halls of residence as I am, currently, I befriended a couple of lads and then, a couple more, (initially their buddies, and now also my buddies too). So, it's been good for the last six months. We hang out all the time, we party, we piss each other off and we've come to know each other quite well. We know each other's bad points, good points, etc. I trust them.

Anyway, came the day I needed to look for someone, and somewhere, to live next year. I asked one of the two boys who lives in my halls (we'll call him A) who he was living with, and was told, as expected, B, (the othe guy in halls), C (another boy from another halls, who I'm not AS friendly with as A and B, but still feel, or did feel, that I could trust, and knew), and, finally, D, this Japanese dude who is studying on A's course, and is friendlier with A than anyone else, and is re-sitting his first year this year because he failed it last year. Anyway, turned out that D didn't know if he would pass the year and wouldn't know until two months down the line. I asked A about the possibility of moving in with them. He said he didn't see a problem but the whole group needed to speak about it...

I asked B a few days after, in A's presence, and there was no problem. Like I said, we're all mates, PLUS, as they didn't know if D would be around the next year, they were happy to have me as 1) back-up as fourth person, or B) person 5.

Anyway, I asked C later on, and was told yes, again, and I asked D before the Easter break-up, if he was cool with this, and he said yes - He was. After the Easter holidays, we discovered that D WOULD be around, so I, being the most mature and organised out of the group, started to look for houses for us. We all continued to go out, party, etc, and it was all good.

So we checked maybe 5 houses, and none of them felt right. I started to get a bit frustrated because it was getting close to the end of term/the year and I was worried we wouldn't find a house in time. I also felt, that, as I was doing all the work, the boys didn't really appreciate that, "hey, we might have to settle for a less than perfect house, guys, because time is running out..." Oh, and in these last three weeks, I was offered a place in New York University for my second year, which I turned down, because the opportunity to live with these boys, (well, the three I'm most friendly with, in particular), was too good to pass up...Anyway...

After 3 months of us agreeing to look, and looking, for a 5-bedroom house, I came home for the Bank holiday weekend. I get a call the day after coming home, from B. He tells me that D has basically thrown a massive spanner in the works, by announcing the day I left that he didn't want to live with me, "because he didn't know me, and he's had trouble when moving in with people he doesn't know, in the past" and that he would therefore rather go and live with a bunch of random people, if he had to, rather than live with me - putting those boys in a VERY arkward position.

I SHIT. I asked B what they'd responded to that, and was told they didn't know what to do, that it was difficult because it was originally the 4 of them looking for a house, and that we all needed to sit and talk about the situation. I SHIT again. I ended the call, tried to call D. No answer.

I called A and C. No answer. I called B again, and was put on speaker-phone, because A was also present in the room. They re-iterated that we all nedded to sit down and talk. I pointed out that 1) it had been three months since we'd made arrangements, and everyone else I knew had sorted their houses, so I have no-one else to go live with, and haven't been looking for the last 3 months because it was always gonna be the 5 of us, or 4 if D couldn't do another year. On top of that, 2) I'd turned down New York Uni, and, 3) I've been the one doing all the work to find us a house, including a massive £100 phone bill from about 40 hours of calls and looking for properties over the last 2 months. We've seen 5 houses, all sorted by me. We have one on standby which is almost perfcet for us. The 2 viewings those boys arranged, both fell through.

I also said that telling me now, when I'm home to see my friends and family, and bringing it up to the boys the moment my back was turned, was dead sneaky, and wrong. Also, because they hadn't stuck up for me, but, instead, were now saying that they didn't know what to do, man, that hurt. I expect my friends to have my back.

I called C, who was in the same situation, and thought we all needed to sit down and talk. Well, I couldn't handle the idea that they might be building up to fucking me over like this. It's completely unfair. I tried D again - No answer. He was blatantly ignoring me. I called the boys again, and learnt that they didn't want to have to choose one boy or the other, and that D had basically given them as close to an ultimatum as it gets. I told them, as he had created this problem, FARRRR too late in the day for me to find someone else to live with, or go to New York, etc, and hadn't said a word to my face about this to me before (I was speaking to him about this only two days before), that he should do the honourable thing and, if he couldn't speak to me to try to sort this out, that he should go and live by himself/with randoms, rather than put MY friends in a position where they were having to choose whether to fuck me over, or him - one friend or the other.

I asked them to get together ASAP with him and talk about it and call me to let me know what was happening - Were they going to fuck me over at the cost of our friendships, were we all gonna live in a 5 bed house (because I didn't have a problem with D - He's very quiet and non-confrontational, so I understand why he did the sneaky thing he did) or were they going to, if forced by D, do the fair thing and have him pay for creating the problem by not moving in with us, if he felt that living with a bunch of people he didn't know was preferable to living with one person he didn't know, but that his friends did...

Come night-time, and I was fed up with not being able to think about anything else - These 3 dudes (not D) are my best mates in Uni - My first lot of mates since school, and I love them and trust, or did, trust them. We also hang out in a much larger circle of friends. Therefore, if they did decise to fuck me over, something they hadn't thus far ruled out, which was bad enough, (as I said, I expect my friends to have my back, because I've got theirs), then my self-esteem would not allow me to hang with them anymore, becuase they'd basically be fucking me over - I could have spent the last 3 months looking for other cool people to live with, I had the opportunity with some people off my course, I could have gone to New York...So I sent them texts, basically telling them I was standing up for myself, that the original arrangement, in my mind, still stood (5 people looking for a house) and, if anyone had issues with my continuing to look for a house, they needed to tell me to my face. Anyway, I then sent them info about a house viewing the next day, for them to attend...

The next day, I phone B and find out they didn't go and see the house, or talk to D about it the previous night. He didn't know what was going on.

Yesterday, I call them all 3 times throughout the day. They don't answer me. I text them asking them to call me - They don't. I feel like someone cut a big chunk out of my guts. How would you feel if you were treated like this by your 3 best mates?

They're all passive-types, cool, etc. That's why we get on, because I'm a big-old liberal at heart, too. So I can kind of understand the ignoring of my calls, despite the fact that it = that I'm being treated like a cunt by them. I think it's more a case of ignoring the situation, than ignoring me. A has previosuly said that he doesn't see why we can't all still be friends, even if they decided not to have me move in, and that he was sorry for the knightmarish situation I've been placed in this weekend, unable to think about anything else. I've felt like crying a few times...

So today, they haven't answered they're phones again. D, who DID answer his phone to me, yesterday, and the day before, heard my voice, and hung up. This from a guy that has not had, as far as I've known, any problem with me EVER, and done nothing to suggest otherwise. Okay, we aren't as close as I am with the other boys, but he always made out he was cool with my moving in, and has been to view houses with us, etc...

Part of me thinks that, as the most organised and mature and independent of all of us, leading to my having to push them to decide what we want out of this house (location-wise, lounge or no? etc) they've been a bit put off by that, but then, hell, we NEED to get a groove on, because we've only got 2 weeks left in Uni...

Otherwise, there's no excuse for them treating me like this. It's a proper stab-a-mate-in-the-back situation, not to mention making my life hell for the last 4 days, in lieu of possibly making my life hell for the next year, having nobody to live with, and nobody to hang with, because, as I said, I can't continue to be friends with people that would fuck me over like this, and therefore I can't possibly hang with our other friends, who we ALL hang out with...

I feel, instinctively, that none of them want to be put in this position, and that it genuinely arose for the first time the other day. I feel like D is to blame and A, B and C would rather the whole thing just carry on as planned - Now, they don't want to have to choose between one or the other of us, and, also, they know that that choice might be the only choice they DO have, as D is making a dialouge between he and myself very difficult/next to impossible, and basically, being a big fat spineless pussy.

Of course, if they DO fuck me over, it's better I should find out now what they're like, than AFTER we go to live together, and, come tomorrow, when I return to London, I'll find out the score anyway, but I just wanted to get some other opinions. What do you reckon?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
15:49 / 29.05.06
Dude, you shoulda went to NY.
 
 
Ninjas make great pets
15:59 / 29.05.06
Oh man. ouch. Been in an Extraordinarly similar situation myself.

It hurts. I truely understand how much it hurts. Do your best to try and find something else. It's only going to melt your head completly.
Have you any option at all without the others?

It kicks in the teeth but seriously - walk away. and give you self time to simmer and seperate before seeing your (what you thought were)mates again.
 
 
petunia
16:28 / 29.05.06
It's weird how university housing seems to be the one thing that really brings out the fucker in a person.

Basically, if they haven't answered your calls and texts, then they're being a bit.. bad.. aren't they?

Even if they turn round and say 'okay, we'll live with you next year', you've already been backfooted and it will be clear that it's them letting you live with them. If they'd dealt with this in a serious manner and had actually answered your calls, things would be different, but as is, it's a matter of them deciding whether or not to allow you to live with them. Nobody needs 'friends' like that.

Even if you can live with them, would you want to?

There's laid-back and then there's being insensitive and selfish. If they act like this over a situation that you have obviously sacrificed a lot of time and effort in, it's probably quite a good indicator of future interactions.

Do you have any chance at all to take up that offer for NY? It really seems the best option (if it is such) - you get away, they get to avoid thinking about it - you get to make new friends and come back a different person. Ring the NY uni. Beg them if you have to.

Otherwise you're in the sticky situation of:
a.) Living with friends who treat you pretty crap (to understate things) when they know you're stressed and worried.
b.) Living by yourself/with randoms for a year, having to make new friends (unless you're a masochist).
c.) Hoping/pretending there's just been a strange confusion and the telephone networks are acting funny.. Wait and see and hope for the best. Masochistic again.


Um... dunno what else.

I feel for you though. There's no pain worse than getting fucked over by people you trust and hold love for.

I hope it gets sorted out in some semblence of a positive situation.

And have that cry. It'll help.

Let us know
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
16:34 / 29.05.06
Ouch. I gotta agree with Jack here- NY was probably the way to go.

The thing about your best friends in college is that it's easy to be someone's best friend in college. When a bunch of kids in their late-teens, early-twenties live together and have virtually no responsibilities except passing classes, it's hard for everything not to be cool. But, throw a real-life, stressful situation in (like finding a house and trying to mediate between two people who have a conflict) and people start to show their true colors soon enough.

I just woke up and I'm a bit hungover, so I may not be getting my point across, but in my experience it's easy to have a bunch of really good friends when it's all good times, as college usually is. For example, in college I had at least ten people who, at the time, I considered to be my very good friends. Now, five years later, exactly one of them is someone I consider one of my best friends, a guy who would have my back no matter what, and I only keep in touch with two others. I don't know if other people have a similar ratio, but it was easy to have scads of friends when we were all running around getting fucked up, chasing girls/boys and copying each other's notes. When real adult life reared it's ugly head, a lot of these people disappeared.

My advice to you is to sort your own shit out. I'm assuming you can't beg your way back to NY, so I would advise maybe finding a studio apartment for yourself or as a last resort falling on the school housing department's mercy. It sounds like these guys you were planning on rooming with aren't very good with dealing, in general. You seem to be, though, so use your mad dealing skillz to hash something out for yourself, not to appease anyone else.
 
 
Quantum
16:40 / 29.05.06
Kill them. Kill them all.
 
 
julius has no imagination
16:43 / 29.05.06
First impulse is to agree with ninja - get out of there. If they've let it come to this they can't be very good friends. Another initial reaction is something misanthropic along the lines of "you're dealing with people here - people suck" or whatever.

However, I'd say that this is the point - they're humans. They're weak. They're, as you say, passive. Doing the right thing is hard. I agree 'D' is actively being an arsehole here, and the fact that he's being evasive about it doesn't help. But while A, B, C are obviously to blame for not being clearer about this, I think they are, indeed, being passive - they're not really stabbing you in the back, they're just not strong enough to firmly take a stance and do the right thing, from the sound of it (the whole "we need to sit down and talk" line).

I'm not sure that means you should get away from them. If they get together, actively make a choice, and that choice is to move in with 'D' and leave you out in the rain, then they are cunts and you should avoid them, I guess. But otherwise, I think it's fairly normal, human, to be passive and hope that things work out. You're being very honourable, and are applying those same standards to the others - but I'm not sure that's realistic. I don't know how I would act in this situation (if I were one of A, B or C) - I'd probably feel that the right thing would be to kick D out and let you move in, but I might well be too weak to actually act on it, and would just sit there feeling guilty.

So (and don't take my advice, my life experience is really rather limited...) I'd say continue badgering A, B and C, gently, to make a clear choice. If they choose D, you're screwed, but at least you know the deal; if they choose you, you friendship with them will probably have suffered anyway, but you can try to work that out. If, somehow, it becomes an option again, I don't think that both D and you moving into the house would be a good idea.

*shrugs* just my thoughts. It hurts either way, and I'm not sure how you can minimise the pain in the end.
 
 
Quantum
17:02 / 29.05.06
Sorry, what I meant was to echo tram petunia. Fair weather friends, get some new ones. I'm lucky enough to have kept the best dozen friends from university, but the most common story is making a load of friends in the first year and then getting a whole load of new and nicer friends. There are loads of places to live in London, and loads of nice people too- you'll be fine I reckon. Sympathy from me though, A B C and D seem to be acting very badly. Good luck.
 
 
Lama glama
18:05 / 29.05.06
I did have a Venn Diagram featuring A, B, C and D prepared but I lost it somewhere.

New York isn't an option anymore? As you said, you're quite an easy going fellow, so as any reliable agony aunt would tell you: Try and find new friends. University is a big place with lots of like-minded people (or as this situation has illustrated, lots of shitbags). Do keep in touch with friends A through C and possibly try and start a seperate friendship with D, if he doesn't hang up on you that is. Keep everything ticking over until Christmas, and maybe you can all get a house together for the second semester.

So, work on D a little bit and see if you can find out exactly why he doesn't want to live with you.
 
 
Lama glama
18:08 / 29.05.06
Or just kill them all.
 
 
Bamba
19:22 / 29.05.06
Quantum and Llama are right: kill the fuck out of them all. Seriously, you know it makes sense.
 
 
BMF
19:27 / 29.05.06
You mean, fuck them off, as in total overkill?
 
 
BMF
19:28 / 29.05.06
Cheers for the advice, by the way

Still don't know what to do though.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:29 / 29.05.06
You need to dump them and find one person who's okay to live with and is still looking for next year.
 
 
Bamba
19:30 / 29.05.06
Which is the Cliff Notes version of my opinion on the matter. Here's the deal as you've described it:


  • They like you and you like them (allegedly).
  • You've al been good fun mates previous.
  • D, or whichever one it is, is beging a sneaky prick and rocking the boat for no good reason without even having the good grace to talk to you bout it.
  • The rest of them are doing "um, ah, we don't know dude" passive bullshit like their spines have been surgically removed instead of getting involved as anyone with a conscience would feel compelled to.
  • You're the one that has done the work to sort out this bunch of backbone-challenged motherfuckers while they got drunk and fell about like a bunch of children.


Seriously guy, they're a bunch of pricks without a moral between them and my advice is to fuck them. Fuck them all. You'll feel better in the long run if you do.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:36 / 29.05.06
You should ring them and tell them it's fine, you'll find someone else to live with if they don't want you there. If they say they do want you there just tell them in a totally flat voice without emotion that it's clearly not the case and it's fine and say good bye. Keep your head, don't show negative emotion, say it how it is. What's the point of dressing the truth up with people who apparently like you anyway? At that point either one of them will turn around, say it's not fair and put their foot down for you or they're not your good friends at all. In the meantime start talking to people you know about your problems with housing next year and hopefully one of them will offer you a place.
 
 
BMF
19:47 / 29.05.06
Flat and emotionless sounds good to me. And, yeah, it's the lack of a backbone which really pisses me off.

They're all fine artists and graphic designers.
 
 
ibis the being
19:56 / 29.05.06
I think saying that they were never really your friends may be overdramatizing things a bit... sounds to me like though you've enjoyed each other's company you're actually not all that compatible with these boys. In your enthusiasm to live with them I fear you may have pushed everyone into a situation that was bound to fall apart. You took the lead from the start with asking to move in and then aggressively seeking an apartment - maybe they felt a little steamrolled and didn't want to hurt your feelings - until D did it for them. Now, don't get me wrong, of the five I think I'd prefer you (being responsible & pragmatic) to the four slacker types as a roommate - but the rest of them want to do things their way and they have the right. I suspect you wouldn't have enjoyed them as roommates anyway. If you differed so much on getting motivated to find a place, imagine that frustration times ten every time the garbage can got full!

My advice? Don't try to live with your friends, now or in the future. The idea of living with your best friends is all warm and fuzzy in theory, but in practice is often hell on earth. It's better to choose someone with whom you're compatible but only casually acquainted.
 
 
Spaniel
20:17 / 29.05.06
I'd like to echo pretty much everything in Ibis's first paragraph.

The thing to remember is that these guys, whatever their motivations, are behaving like dumb kids, which is fair enough 'cause at 19/20 people often sort of are.
 
 
BMF
20:26 / 29.05.06
Yeah, but I just don't see how I can still hang with them after this. They think I can. I think it's kind of humiliating, plus, you know, there's my self-esteem to think of...plus, I really hate them for (maybe) fucking me over like this...
 
 
Spaniel
20:29 / 29.05.06
No, I don't really see how you can hang out with them, either. I'm not saying they should be forgiven - they've behaved like utter fucking wankers (again, whatever their motivation).
 
 
Spaniel
20:32 / 29.05.06
Oh, and they haven't "maybe" fucked you over. They _have_ almost certainly fucked you over - barring some spectacular explanation, their reasons are almost irrelevant.
 
 
BMF
20:39 / 29.05.06
Exactly. And it makes me as angry as is does sad. If depression is anger turned inwards, then I have to let it out, which means aiming it at those who deserve it.

I'll try not to lecture them, but I doubt I'm gonna be able to curb the emotion.
 
 
BMF
20:48 / 29.05.06
Does anybody think though, for what its worth, that I should say to them that, if they don't want to choose between us, then don't - abstain, thus, our original arrangement stands, minus D, if he still has a problem moving in with me - and doesn't have the will/balls to approach me about it?
 
 
ibis the being
20:57 / 29.05.06
BMF, it's probably best to just let it go. I do believe in speaking your mind when you feel you've been wronged, but there's a point where you have to recognize that you've made your point and any further venting of the spleen is not only going to fall on deaf ears, but it's actually more constructive for you to get on with your life. There's little value arguing the principle of the small things (and, as horrible as it feels now, it will prove to be small - I'll bet in 6mo you'll be in a far better living situation than you would have been with them) - you could waste your whole life being right but unhappy. Just move on - living well is the best revenge as they say.
 
 
BMF
21:02 / 29.05.06
Yeah...

I know I'll survive this. I've not got a problem meeting people...although it would seem I have bad judgement when it comes to meeting trustworthy people...

There's also a little old case of six festival tickets I've got coming that they've paid for - We were all meant to be going this summer. Obviously, not me, now, and there's this little devil on my shoulder telling me I should keep the ticks and give them to my real friends back home...Obviously, that would be highly irresponsible and horrible of me...But then it would also serve them right, the shitheads...
 
 
Red Concrete
21:13 / 29.05.06
six festival tickets... all meant to be going

hmmm.. I was wondering why they were trying to 'still be friends'... can I suggest you send them the tickets, minus one - let them decide which of them to leave behind...

Or else send them one ticket cut into 4 equal pieces.
 
 
Ganesh
21:15 / 29.05.06
Any idea why D doesn't want to share a house with you? The I-don't-like-strangers-therefore-I'd-rather-move-in-with-loads-of-them-than-him rationale doesn't ring true. Can you think of anything you might've said or done that's turned him off you?
 
 
BMF
21:18 / 29.05.06
Yes. I tutted when he told everyone the other night he'd been crying over some female he'd been out with. D's very emotional.

Thinking about it, the £101 phone-bill and 40 hours work x minimum wage rate of £5.05 (=£202) comes to over £300. That's two and a half tickets...
 
 
Cherielabombe
21:32 / 29.05.06
I would say even though you're kind of screwed and there's not as many options available and NOT the one you wanted, I don't think you should live with those guys now even if they ask you to and kick D out. There's too much bad blood and it will be there all through the year. You're really probably better off with 'randoms' or with a friend of a friend of a friend who's also still looking.

Who knows? You could get a fantastic place with fantastic flatmates out of this, you know?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
21:44 / 29.05.06
Don't fuck with the tickets. Better to do everything on the upright and be able to look back at the whole thing with your head high years from now than feel like you got caught in a spiral of petty crap vs. petty crap.

Trust me, if this is how they're treating you, you're best off on your own. And if you're the vindictive sort, you can watch as they implode next year with grim satisfaction. And they will.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
21:46 / 29.05.06
Afterthought: and messing with the tickets will just give 'em a self-justifying "see? That's the sort of person he is" to carry them through the night, as opposed to having them look back at the whole thing later and maybe learn something valuable from it.
 
 
Lama glama
22:13 / 29.05.06
But doing the ticket thing would feel fantastic and they're already probably doing some form of self-justification: "He laughed at D, ergo he'd be a horribly insensitive person to live with"

Ibis:Don't try to live with your friends, now or in the future. The idea of living with your best friends is all warm and fuzzy in theory, but in practice is often hell on earth

I lived with my best friend during my first year of University and hope to live with him again next year. If one can sustain some sort of social life outside of each other, then the time spent together is generally a lot of fun and appreciated more. I don't suspect that anything like that would be possible with however many of you there are, BMF (sorry, still can't find that Venn diagram).
 
 
Ganesh
22:13 / 29.05.06
Yes. I tutted when he told everyone the other night he'd been crying over some female he'd been out with. D's very emotional.

There's emotional and there's emotional. Are you sure that's it? It sounds like a more considered position, based on more than a single tut (or the not-wanting-to-share-with-people-I-don't-know thing). Even if D were this impulsive in his decision-making, the fact that his stance has caused the others to vacillate rather than push for your inclusion makes me wonder whether there's something else, some missing piece of information.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
22:16 / 29.05.06
Another vote for leaving the tickets unmolested. Don't do it!
 
  

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