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Underground > Radio & Music >

Southern rap

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01:51 / 21.05.06

I don't think I've ever seen TI mentioned here, so I am starting a thread for my favourite rapper. He's just put out his fourth album, King, which my housemates are probably really sick of by now. He has a great flow, a sexy little drawl, seeming effortless even when the track is almost unbelievably dense and hyper, and that works just as well on his intimate, reflective numbers as it does on his huge bangers. (Young Jeezy blew up on a dumbed-down monodimensional version thereof.) Jay-Z likes him. He beefed with Lil Flip. Last year he did one of those quasi-vanity projects where a big-name rapper puts out an album with his B-list crew and it sinks without trace. He has a movie out in the States called ATL which I hear is pretty good.

King, the album, mostly runs on huge, crushing, monster beats (Just Blaze, DJ Toomp do their best work in ages, Manny Fresh is on point, Swizz Beats good but basically photocopying his earlier OMG!!! T.I. track, Bring Em Out). There are some sweet softer tracks, a neat one with Jamie Foxx, and T.I. even manages to sound decent on one of those 06-Neptunes jazzy abortions with Pharrell and Common. But at his best, he comes out with these dazzling moments of grandiose genius, staggering switched-up flows and layered idiosyncracies - a sex jam with a fucking Crystal Waters sample!* A re-tooled UGK classic! The swooning, regal horn-gasm of 'What u know about that'!

Are any other 'lithers feeling this guy?

* Poss. the first sex jam ever to feature a line like 'compliment you on your intellect, treat you with respect' that is both sincere and non-cringe-inducing. Yay T.I.!

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

14:20 / 21.05.06

Oh yeah, I feel you on this one. T.I. is definitely King here in his hometown (where I live). My friends and I are really enjoying the new album...the movie, not so much.

Good call.

07:25 / 26.05.06

Could we maybe broaden this thread out to talk about Southern Hip Hop in general? It's an area I know nothing about whatsoever, yet I really like it when I hear it. Something about them drawls - any further recommendations? What I'd really like is to catch a crunk primer radio show or something similar.

I will check out this album though... and post my thoughts. I think one of the reasons this thread hasn't flown is because Southern stuff in the UK is a bit invisible ....

09:18 / 26.05.06

Southern stuff? I like the Cash Money stuff (actually I have a hard time remembering who's jumped to other labels) Lil Wayne being the best, Birdman pretty good, and Manny Fresh as a great producer and the backbone of the Cash Money sound (and taken in moderation his rapping can be ok too).

I remember hearing TI when he first hit the radio with his Rubber Band Man single and thought it was good and the beat was nice. And then he came out with that song with the Jay-Z sample ("Let em out?") and that song was amazing.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:29 / 26.05.06

'Bring 'Em Out'. Yeah, good song, but I think 'Rubberband Man' was the bigger, better tune.

14:45 / 26.05.06

Jack, I love all that old Cash Money shit, and their current diaspora. Lil Wayne put out an awesome album last year, the Carter II - the best (though least representative) single is Shooter with Thicke, and Fireman is a huge whooping banger. Juvenile is still putting out great records, too - Sets go up was a killer and the Katrina-themed Get ya hustle on is cool. BG still does great stuff. Mannie Fresh is still a total genius.

But back to T.I. One way I always know I really love an album is that, like, I figure out a favourite song from it, but then after another couple of listens, I realise that much as I love that one, there's another one that's even better... and I keep doing that til pretty much every song has been my favourite for a bit. I am busily working through King like that, so its hard to figure out which song to post here (as per Flyboy's request).

I decided to go with I'm talkin to you, one of the Just Blaze tracks. I love everything about this song, from Just Blaze's anti-handclap rant to... well, I could do without the skit at the end, but it doesn't kill me. In between, the beat twists around a simple headnodder, but Blaze makes something huge out of it, so busy, all those careening snares and bomb-drop horns. I love the way TI starts out with his boistrous ad lib bullshit, switches to his slow-but-steady chorus, with this inaudible hypersyllabic chattering in the background which, when the chorus ends, you realise is actually the verse. And then he really gets going...

I figured this one is good to post, too, cause it has something like a current Southern rap role call worked in there. (I'm fine with making the thread more general, by the way.)

So I'm hoping this works: T.I. - I'm talkin to you

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:47 / 26.05.06

That is great. Hmmm, I'm very tempted to just buy the album if the rest of it is that good. It has a gorgeous cover too, which is always a good sign I think.

I'm really loving Just Blaze's recent stuff, like this and 'The Champ' off the Ghostface album - there's just so much crammed in there, it's kind of overwhelming.

03:00 / 27.05.06

I've been a massive Just Blaze Stan for years but yeah, he is on fire at the moment. I am excited about his Saigon album more than maybe anything else coming out this year.

Not all tracks on King are that good, but I'd say at least a half dozen are, and the rest are all solid to great (but sub-amazing.) I rank it ahead of Fishscale as album of the year - I don't think you will, but I think you'll like it a lot.

09:23 / 27.05.06

That's fucking ace. Outside my normal "listening range" when it comes to Hip Hop, but all the more enjoyable for that. I actually had a look for the album last night and couldn't find it (alright didn't look that hard), but I'll defintely check it out, and post my thoughts.

Still on the Southern tip . Found this interesting article adn Houston's Screwed and chopped stuff: Ghetto Psychedelia

09:31 / 27.05.06

More on that later, but Flyboy - do you think this thread could be the one to talk about Triksta? Or does that need a seperate thread?

09:43 / 27.05.06

Not a big fan of the screwed and chopped stuff. Artist's like Lil Wayne have embraced it and released screwed versions of their albums, but it's kinda blah to me.

11:58 / 27.05.06

Screwed stuff is a pretty mixed bag, like remix stuff (the only straight-up screw tracks I have are a couple of old Screwed Up Clique compilations). Sometimes they do really interesting things with the originals - like, Bun B dropped a track on the beat from Goodies last year, and the Screwed version went nuts messing with the synth lines - or the Screwed version of the long Wait (Whisper Song) remix that strips away a lot of the Collipark production in favour of a low-key piano part. Other times it seems like they're literally just slowing the record down and repeating key phrases. And really, you have to be in the mood. If you want to check it out, maybe the best thing you can get pretty easily is the S&C version of David Banner's Mississippi: The Album. Its cool and spooky and psychedelic and whatever else you want in your screwed up shit.

(If they stay separate threads, Triksta probably goes better in Jack's Mannie Fresh thread, for shared Nolia subject matter, unless this is becoming the general-purpose Southern rap thread, I spose, but yeah, talk about that because I wanna know if it's worth picking up.)

12:03 / 27.05.06

Other times it seems like they're literally just slowing the record down and repeating key phrases.
Yeah, that's what I don't like. The first huge mainstream screwed song was that Mike Jones song from last year wasn't it?

12:29 / 27.05.06

I dunno, I'm in Australia where this stuff never actually gets released. Either that or Paul Wall's Sittin Sidewayz, I guess. They're not really screwed, although obviously they have that influence in the production. (I love these songs, by the way.)

00:38 / 28.05.06

Illmatic - I could probably recommend some more stuff if I had a better idea what you'd heard and liked. Southern rap covers a lot of different stuff - I mean, technically Timbaland and Nelly are 'southern rap', but I figure that's not really what you're after.

08:54 / 28.05.06

Outkast, and that's pretty much it. Who I love dearly. And a tape full of Cash Money stuff which I didn't like at the time. I'm a bit behind the times with Hip Hop and most of the stuff I know well is East Coast from a few years back - so I've got pretty open ears to any recommendations. I have heard a bit of Bun B stuff ("Get Throwed"?) which I thought was great. What's the rest of his stuff like?

Regrettable Juvenilia

00:07 / 29.05.06

I picked this up today, on a first couple of listens it's real nice. I love how 'What You Know' has this sort of victorious, chilled-out mood to it, it's properly... well, regal, I guess.

06:27 / 29.05.06

Yeah, regal is definitely the word.

Ill - Bun B is a straight up legend, although his album last year (Trill, which Get Throwed is from) is pretty disappointing. Bun is half of UGK, with Pimp C, who just spent a couple years in jail. Bun spent that time dropping phenomenal guest verses on dozens of tracks and remixes, a lot of them collected on his Free Pimp C mixtape, which is fucking amazing. Nobody in the South can touch him lyrically, and he is easily one of the best MCs still recording anywhere.

Some stuff to check out, for starters: Bun B/TI/Slim Thug Three Kings, Lil Flip/Chamillionaire/Bun B Platinum Stars, Juvenile/Bun B Slow motion remix, Lil Kim/TI/Bun B We don't give a fuck, Bun B Free Pimp C (on the Goodies beat!), and of course his classic verse on Big Pimpin. If you want to hear some UGK, its all great, but maybe start with Ridin Dirty.

08:00 / 29.05.06

I really am going to have to get Soulseek. Thanks a lot for the recs , will come back when I've listened to 'em.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:05 / 29.05.06

T.I. even manages to sound decent on one of those 06-Neptunes jazzy abortions with Pharrell and Common.

'Goodlife' isn't a bad track for the most part, but that Common verse is just awful - as bad as all his other recent guest appearances. I don't know what's happened to the guy - Talib Kweli shows up on the new Coup album and is equally bad, I guess it's probably the result of hanging out at too many poetry readings and jazz cafes...

15:36 / 29.05.06

Listening to "Get Throwed" again right now. I think one of the things that I'm enjoying so much is the decoding - new slang, new flows to get used to - re-learning the language of Hip Hop over again. I just had to look up what "gripping grain" is - someone told me before but I forgot - but how fucking cool is that?

Anyway, I found this glossary which I think folks might find useful.

04:42 / 30.05.06

Maybe Common is suffering the Erykah Badu break-up curse? Like, where a rapper puts out a classic album during a relationship with her but then putters around and becomes increasingly rubbish afterwards.

Okay here are some Bun B tracks. They're not real representative or anything, just stuff I had Mp3s of. (Incidentally, if anyone knows how to turn CD tracks into Mp#s can they PM me?)

UGK - Pocket full of stones

Older UGK classic, funky midtempo beat. Bun, taking it easy, makes it sound effortless.

Jay-Z/UGK - Big Pimpin

Figure most people have this anyway, but yeah, their first national hit, classic Egyptian-styled Timbaland bounce, and why do people always talk about 'Eminem killed Jay on Renegade' when Bun did it years earlier here?

Bun B/Slim Thug/T.I. - Three kings
Bun B/Scarface/Z-Ro - Bitch n*ggas

Couple of recent-ish tracks, five great southern rappers. Three Kings is storming horns and easy swagger. Bitch N*ggas rolls up like In Da Club's scarier brother and Bun kills it.

21:08 / 30.05.06

Thanks a bundle for those tracks. I'm downloading them now, but won't have anything to say till tomorrow. Bit caned and about to go to bed. Im loving BIg Pimping though. The flute is wicked, the lyrics are cracking me up.

21:19 / 30.05.06

That final track has just won my heart with the phrase "I'll backslap a backpacker for here to Kalalaka".

08:17 / 31.05.06

in your head?

08:53 / 31.05.06

Not the last time I looked.

09:37 / 31.05.06

Then why did you ask? (-:

13:08 / 31.05.06

What's funny is, on that other thread, when Bruno asked which rappers just tried to pack as many big words to a line as they could, the first thing I thought of was Bun's Big Pimpin verse where he goes, read a book you illiterate son of a bitch, and step up your vocab.

00:52 / 07.06.06

There's a really sharp interview with Bun up here.

BLVR: So a lot of the work you’ve done in recent years—before your solo album dropped—has been guest appearances on other people’s records. I’d like to know a little bit about the practice of writing those rhymes.

Bun B: Well, the first thing I do is I try to listen to whatever rapping is already on the track. I listen for cadence and melody to see how the track’s already been written, and to make sure that whatever flow or flows I decide to run with, or patterns or melodies that I decide to put into the song, that they’re not already in there. Then I try to see if there’s a different part of the subject matter that I can talk about. If there isn’t, I try to see if I can analogize it, break it down, flip it another way. If that can’t be done, the best thing I can do is pretty much out-rap the guy. And when I say out-rap the guy—say, if he uses ten syllables in a line, I’m going to use fifteen. If he uses fifteen, I’m going to use twenty, twenty-five. If he’s rhyming two or three words within two bars, I’m going to rhyme four or five words in two bars. I’m going to out-skill you.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:14 / 07.06.06

Wow, that bit about making sure the patterns and cadences and melodies of his verses aren't already in there is fantastic - you can really hear this on (can't think of a Bun B track as an example, but) 'Stay Fly' by Three 6 Mafia - the way each time someone takes over they switch it up a little... Is it my imagination or are Southern rappers even a little bit better than New York at that kind of thing?

11:28 / 07.06.06

That is a fantastic passage, makes me keen to hear more of his stuff.

I brought the T.I. - It's great. I havent' really got into it yet, as it sitting down checking all the lyrics etc. but it's that good, I'm sure I will. More later.

11:43 / 07.06.06

Damn, he is sharp. I noticed the interviewer is a writer for XXL - why the fuck don't they print stuff that smart on a more regular basis? I'd buy it more. Can't wait to get in tonight and replay those mp3s.

21:41 / 07.06.06

The Big Pimpin bits in that interview are fucking hilarious. 'I'm just saying, 32 bars, you might be allowed a punch.' Heh.

Anyway, since Fly mentioned it and I've been meaning to post it anyway, here's Stay Fly by the Oscar-winning Three 6 Mafia. Its easily the best Southern rap track of last year, and that's just as true if you take out the word 'Southern' (or the word 'rap').

Three 6 Mafia/Young Buck/8Ball/MJG - Stay Fly

Keith, like a scientist

20:38 / 09.06.06

I can't recommend Cunninlynguists' A Piece of Strange album highly enough. Definitely one of the best albums of the year, and it really encapsulates the entire Dungeon/Goodie family of southern rap. It's a concept album that follows a very tight aesthetic throughout the album. DJ Kno hit the production on this baby out of the park.

I wrote about it in more detail on my blog and there is 2 mp3s for you to check out, if you are interested.

23:42 / 19.06.06

Sorry I missed this when you first posted it. The only Cunninlynguists song I know is 'Since When' - frankly, I've always thought their name was just unforgivably naff and avoided them on that basis. But that song is good enough to make me think about digging up more.

I don't think I'm phrasing this too well, but I really like the wobble to the beat - not the kind of thing you normally mean when you say a track has some wobble, but a kind of steady disorientation, like you're so drunk you're doing a slow, careful, but lurching walk. It goes great with some of the verses (there's one that doesn't work so well for me). The first verse kills it - who's that MC? - throws itself into the beat, that great pause between 'we... flavour' like he was so excited he just couldn't wait to start getting it down.

Also, I posted a southern-flavoured remix of Maneater with Lil Wayne in the Nelly Furtado thread, if people are interested.

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