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Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

 
  

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Jack Fear
20:16 / 20.09.06
I'm not cricizing Sorkin's take. I just think it was a creative mistake to put it in the mouth of that particular character, Jed Bartlett—who had theretofore been portrayed as holding "the true believer's perspective." Geddit?

You write what you know or you learn to fake it convincingly. A writer may be interested in exploring different topics, but a man's got to know his limitations. For instance: I'm a great admirer of Oscar Wilde and his wit, but I could never write a Wildean character, because I lack that wit—and you can't fake that.

Just so, I remain unconvinced by Sorkin's attempts to write a Christian character on STUDIO 60, if "being Christian" = perforce "gotta make nice with Pat Robertson," as he seems to imply. We're only one episode in, though: maybe he'll get better.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:57 / 20.09.06
I understand what you mean. I guess it just felt right for Bartlett and the arc of his character. Felt right for that particular moment. Oh well, difference of opinion, I guess.

And yes, I agree, the "Christian character" doesn't seem well thought out yet. Apparently she is based on Kristen Chenoweth, whom Sorkin previously dated, and then became a West Wing cast member after he left the show.
 
 
PatrickMM
22:09 / 20.09.06
I think if anything, her Christian-ness was emphasized a bit too much, making her just that, the Christian character, rather than a character who happened to be Christian. Now, the plot did revolve around issues with her faith vs. her job, which I'm sure will come up again, but I still feel like focusing on that overwhelmed anything else about the character. But, this is the kind of thing that can be easily resolved as the series goes on.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:53 / 20.09.06
Maybe not. I mean, it's not like Ainsley Hayes (Harriet's cousin, perhaps?) really got much of an arc on WEST WING...
 
 
gridley
14:14 / 21.09.06
Hmmm... I'd heard that Sorkin was basing Harriet's character on his ex-girlfriend Kristin Chenoweth ("Wicked", "West Wing"), but I didn't realize to what extent...

From an IMDB commenter:

"When his then-girlfriend, Broadway star and West Wing actor Kristin Chenoweth, accepted an invitation to appear on The 700-Club (http://www.cbn.com/700club/Guests/Bios/Kristin_Chenoweth040405.aspx) to plug her album (http://www.gaycitynews.com/gcn_416/kristinchenowethsgospel.html) he was less than pleased and ended the relationship. Chenoweth later said that she regretted going on the show, and got into trouble with some in the Evangelical world for telling a reporter, "I don't believe if you're gay or you have a drink or you dance you're going to hell. I don't think that's the kind of God we have. The Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells of the world are scary. I want to be a Christian like Christ -- loving and accepting of other people" (http://www.musicalschwartz.com/recordings/chenoweth-career.htm). It sounds like Harriet is going to be Kristin Chenoweth's type of Christian."
 
 
some guy
19:17 / 21.09.06
"The problem is that Sorkin writes about the life of faith from outside."

This isn't a problem; it's simply a perspective different than your own.

"I remain unconvinced by Sorkin's attempts to write a Christian character on STUDIO 60, if "being Christian" = perforce "gotta make nice with Pat Robertson," as he seems to imply."

Not anymore than he seems to imply that "being Jewish" = "having a breakdown live on television." Why do you think this character represents anyone other than this character, and why does that thinking not extend to the other characters?
 
 
Red Concrete
22:01 / 21.09.06
More like- I am going to be in New York this Monday coming and if I can swing watching this instead of being out and about at that time I'm sorely tempted to do so.

Anna, you could probably do both - it's not so long that it would take you all night to watch it, nor so riveting that you would feel drained afterwards... In fact, personally, I usually feel uplifted after a short burst of good TV, like the pilot was.
 
 
Saint Keggers
14:54 / 25.09.06
The second ep wasn't horrid either.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:30 / 26.09.06
Yeah, it was, actually. It reached levels of awfulness that were simply sublime. It was immaculately shot, beautifully designed, charmingly acted, and written with passion and brio—all in the service of ideas of a staggering, fundamental Wrongness. There were parts of it I had to watch from the doorframe, and parts that caused me to simply leave the room.

Here’s the thing; for all his showbiz inside-baseball patter, Aaron Sorkin demonstrates no understanding of pop culture—of what it is, of how it works, of why it's popular in the first place. Indeed, he seems to view pop culture as the disease, and himself as the cure. Which would be fine—if he weren’t writing about a show that allegedly epitomizes pop-culture cool.

A wonderful bit of hypocrisy; early in Episode 2, Jordan say that “We’re never going to assume that the viewer at home is less intelligent than we are,” or words to that effect. Then the show spends the rest of the episode proving her wrong.

Later, we’re in the writing room. Matt is blocked. he asks the hypothetical question, “Who’s the ultimate in frat humor?” This viewer at home thinks, quite reasonably, The National Lampoon? The Daily Show? Monty Python? South Park? But no. Turns out that the right answer is... Gilbert and Sullivan.

No, seriously.

We then enter into some weird-ass parallel universe where people care deeply about “the legacy of television, Arturo Toscanini and the NBC Orchestra,” where jokes involving Bill Cosby an Jell-O Pudding Pops still get a laugh, where a “Modern Major General” pastiche, performed in white gowns and tails, has ‘em rolling in the aisles on the show that is supposed to be the premiere arbiter of hipness. (Yeah, the Gilbert & Sullivan CDs are just flying off the shelves of my local Hot Topic, I’ll tell you.)

Screw that stuff you like, Sorkin is saying; Here’s what you should like. And you can believe us when we tell you this, because we understand the history and legacy of this medium. Because we are professionals.

And that’s where Sorkin’s real beef lies; with the dissolution of the traditional media paradigm and the attendant democratization of content. Hence the bitching about “these bloggers in their pajamas,” who dare to question and dissect what they consume. Hence the obsession with “credentials”—bloggers, of course, lack them, and how did this nutbar from Rapture Magazine get them? Hence the pounding on the concept of “professionalism,” leading up to Matt’s tear on Kids these days, the way they dress—a scene of jaw-dropping Wrong-Headedness.

Sorkin’s misty romantic view of television—and not just television, network television—is leading him to defend the indefensible. He’s longing for the days when the Big Three functioned as a (mostly) benevolent monopoly, dictating the public taste rather than serving it. In this view, the opening up of the media landscape is a bad thing, leading inexorably to a race to the bottom; alternate forms of distribution are bankrupt because they lack proper filtering—to really be any good, you’ve got to be “credentialed,” whatever that means.

So, to sum up; Aaron Sorkin is an elitist prick who hates the youth, fears the future, and has constructed STUDIO 60 an elaborate angry-old-man rant to defend Old Media from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

No wonder so many talented TV actors and creators are lining up to work with him; by its very premise, STUDIO 60 is designed to reassure them that they still Matter.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:52 / 26.09.06
At the risk of arguing with Jack about religion, after Bartlett gets back to the White House after Mrs Landingham's funeral he has that wonderful scene in the Oval Office where he has that conversation with her spirit/himself. My reading on rewatching that episode is that he starts the episode ready to give up and announce he won't be seeking re-election. This results in his, as already pointed out, petulent outburst at God. It's an excuse, a safety valve release. Mrs Landingham tells him not to blame God for bad things (or something similar) and he decides to stand again. His moment in the Cathedral is his Garden of Gethselame moment, which he perhaps flunks, and perhaps you can then read it as his God persuading him to try again/giving him a second chance.

Does anyone know what part Richard Schiff will have in the new show?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:55 / 26.09.06
And was it Sorkin who wrote the 'Josh versus the bloggers' story from the West Wing?
 
 
Jack Fear
16:02 / 26.09.06
Of course. He's nothing if not consistent. His animus towards bloggers goes way back; remember, it was Drudge that broke the Lewinsky scandal.
 
 
gridley
17:12 / 26.09.06
Actually, the Josh vs. the bloggers episode was in Season Six, so Sorkin was already gone at that time. Might have been one of his old ideas still kicking around, I suppose.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:20 / 26.09.06
Sorry, I was thinking of Josh's foray onto the lemon-lyman.com message boards in Season 3.
 
 
Sniv
12:42 / 27.09.06
I caught the second episode last night and I really enjoyed it. Possibly because I never watched the West Wing (missed the first season, couldn't get into it afterwards), I'm finding this show really fresh and entertaining. I'm not expecting anything amazing, as this is network drama afterall, but it seems intelligent and snappy, and manages to capture the pressure and pace that I would imagine producing a weekly live sketch show would generate.

Jack, you mentioned this that I'd like to talk about: Jordan sa[id] that “We’re never going to assume that the viewer at home is less intelligent than we are,” or words to that effect. Then the show spends the rest of the episode proving her wrong.

This may be my swiss-cheesed brain acting up here, but I don't quite remember what you mean by that. I remember the quote, but not how the show contradicts it. And, if it did contracdict it, what's the big deal? She was pimping her network, it was PR fluff. In the context of the programme, she may well be able to say these things and believe them, but the real battle comes in convincing the other execs that this should be the case.

I think you're partly right though, and that line was Sorkin talking through Jordan's mouth, but I'm not sure I find it as disagreeable as you do. I know next to nothing about Sorkin by the way, I'm just making judgements about this TV show as I watch it, not necessarily about the personalities involved in it's creation. Although its obvious that some of these characters may be acting as mouthpieces for the writer, I think it can be a mistake to assume that every point made is representative of his real feelings. That's pretty lazy fiction, isn't it? (this may be what you're getting at, but I don't have enough information to make a judgement about it)

I think that Jordan's line essentailly shows how (unrealistically) optimistic she is. She's someone with big dreams and a grand ambition, but I think lots of the drama in the show will revolve around her ideas being crushed and her becoming embittered by the restrictive nature of the medium. There's just something about her attitude in this episode that was too good to be sustainable for very long.

Also, wasn't the Gilbert and Sullivan thing supposed to be from left-field? I seriously doubt the audience was supposed to guess that, but it does give us some (I hesitate to say depth, I think I'll use) colour to Matt's character. I really liked the song as well, I thought it was pretty funny and made a great conclusion to the episode. It made me want to keep watching, if only to see what the reviews (of their fictional programme) are like.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:47 / 27.09.06
gridley- Actually I was thinking of Josh versus the Lemon-Lyman board, I misremembered it as a blog. Sorkin hates the interweb!
 
 
gridley
13:18 / 27.09.06
Ahhh, the Lemon-Lyman one was definitely Sorkin. Supposedly, that was inspired by Sorkin's experiences getting into fights on the Television Without Pity forums.
 
 
Mouse
15:23 / 27.09.06
Posted something similar on the Heroes thread, but I thought youpeople in UKland might like to know NBC is posting the latest episode online each week.

It might not be available to UK viewers (just like I can't watch the BBC News online since moving to Americaland), and for all I know it's already being shown on E4, but if not, here it is:
http://www.nbc.com/studio60/
 
 
kowalski
23:05 / 27.09.06
“We’re never going to assume that the viewer at home is less intelligent than we are.”

Not to suggest that the show isn't without its contradictions, but there is another side to that statement: that the intention is to work as if the viewer is as intelligent as the show's creative staff, and not dumb down the content to match it to the supposed (and often patently mistaken) interests of the audience.

As for what followed, if The Simpsons could repeatedly showcase retooled versions of the G/S catalogue over the years, I don't see why its fictional use by the Studio 60 crew should be considered so elitist and out-of-touch.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:18 / 28.09.06
His animus towards bloggers goes way back; remember, it was Drudge that broke the Lewinsky scandal.

Eh? I'm not sure exactly what you are saying. I suspect what you are saying, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

----

As for the rest...well, much of what you said about Sorkin and the show is very weird to me. I don't see the show on that level in anyway. Maybe I'm just not as smart or something, but, to me, it seems like a show that is striving to push a little class and a little intelligence. I don't see that as a bad thing. It's might seem pretentious, but a bit of pretention on this subject might be what's required in the "I'm just folks" realm of television these days. That's what always appealed to me about West Wing, it's desire to not be afraid of smarts/morality/honor/integrity. It's witty without being about dick jokes and shock value.

It might completely backfire on the weight of it's own ideals, but for now, I haven't seen anything that warrants such a snide lashing.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
04:50 / 28.09.06
Jack:
A wonderful bit of hypocrisy; early in Episode 2, Jordan say that “We’re never going to assume that the viewer at home is less intelligent than we are,” or words to that effect. Then the show spends the rest of the episode proving her wrong.

How did it do that?

We then enter into some weird-ass parallel universe where people care deeply about “the legacy of television, Arturo Toscanini and the NBC Orchestra,” where jokes involving Bill Cosby an Jell-O Pudding Pops still get a laugh, where a “Modern Major General” pastiche, performed in white gowns and tails, has ‘em rolling in the aisles on the show that is supposed to be the premiere arbiter of hipness. (Yeah, the Gilbert & Sullivan CDs are just flying off the shelves of my local Hot Topic, I’ll tell you.)

I know that you could only watch the episode from the doorframe and from a state of leaving the room, but your comment about the Bill Cosby bit bewilders me. I don't exactly think you understood what they are saying: Bill Cosby jokes AREN'T funny, and their old writers think they are. Matt and Danny don't give a shit about that kind of joke.

And while I agree that Gilbert & Sullivan aren't very hip, using Hot Topic as your arbiter of hipness isn't exactly the best measuring stick of hipness, either. Hip and popular are two different things.

Hence the pounding on the concept of “professionalism,” leading up to Matt’s tear on Kids these days, the way they dress—a scene of jaw-dropping Wrong-Headedness.

Again, maybe the doorframe is to be blame, but did you miss the punchline to that? Matt is shocked at himself for even making that admonishment regarding clothing.

Our Lady:
Does anyone know what part Richard Schiff will have in the new show?
Where did you see that he will have a part in the show? If he does, you have just made my night. The only thing better that Schiff coming on would be if Judd Hirsch had frequent cameos.
 
 
gridley
12:44 / 28.09.06
I imagine we'll see Judd Hirsh again. At the very least, for "a very special episode" sometime during Sweeps.

The Gilbert and Sullivan thing didn't strike me as innately elitist, but I do think they largely botched it by making it more formal and classical, rather than funny and outrageous. The few jokes the song made got pretty much buried under the unnecessarily fancy-pants singing style. In my opinion, "The Animaniacs" did a far better job of turning that song into a joke vehicle.

Unfortunately, I really fear that the bits of show within the show are going to be the worst thing about "Studio 60", ranging in quality from just mildly embarasssing to downright unwatchable.

Hopefully, I'll have to eat my words on that. I know Mark McKinney from "Kids in the Hall" is working on the sketches, so there's hope. And John Ennis from "Mr. Show" is on the show's fictional writing staff, so I'm hoping they'll seek some material from him.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:13 / 28.09.06
Keith- I'm afraid I can't remember where I heard about Schiff being in the show, just that I'm sure I did.
 
 
Mouse
17:20 / 28.09.06
There are a few sites talking about Schiff being a cast member, but I can't find any concrete information. Could just be that he was in talks with people to join the show, or Sorkin wanted him, and it never came to pass.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:12 / 05.10.06
i won't defend the third episode.

certainly was a drop off for me. there were a few bits i liked...all of them interpersonal things, the kind of thing that i enjoyed so much on WW. Simon saying "You know she'll make it work" after Harriet tells Matt about the bear joke, which is something you'd completely see Tina Fey do.

The big teeth joke was funny.

But not much else was very good about this episode, unfortunately. Too dense, too angry, and 3 episodes in, still flogging the same personal horses of the creator.

I really enjoyed the first 2 episodes, but this one made me very worried about where the show is going. If it can't figure out how to get across it's point without failing in so many regards, I'll be jumping ship.

For one, DON'T SHOW THE DAMN SKETCHES. I really don't care if they are funny or not, but it's just too difficult for anyone to not criticize them for not being as funny as they say they will be. They are just asking for it. One of the biggest complaints I've seen on the innaneck is that the sketches aren't funny. The focus of the show isn't to show funny sketches, it's about the backstage stuff, the people behind the show, the making of it. Showing the sketches is just a bad idea, completely distracts from the show's premise.

And second, Sorkin really needs to cool off... everyone is spitting bile for 3 episodes. These people need to get along and act like they are having fun, instead of being angry and stressed out. Perhaps, the good ratings their show got in this episode will go a long way to changing the tone of the episodes. Perhaps it was by design to start out cranky, then move into more lighthearted things, but I'm afraid it won't be.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:30 / 05.10.06
...leading up to Matt’s tear on Kids these days, the way they dress —a scene of jaw-dropping Wrong-Headedness.

Jack has seen the enemy, and the enemy is him...
 
 
gridley
12:46 / 05.10.06
I couldn't agree more about the sketches. So bad. That gameshow sketch was about three times wordier than any comedy sketch can get away with being and none of them are really funny. I toyed with the idea of thinking that they were supposed to be bad, but given how self-congratulatory all the characters are, that's clearly not the case.

And that cheeseball musical montage scene at the end had me ready to throw something.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:15 / 17.10.06
Aaron, you remember how the original plan for The West Wing was for POTUS to not be in it that much? You should follow the same idea for Studio 60 and be a lot stricter. And while it was one thing to suggest that actually you could have Republicans who were genuine Conservatives and not automatically evil, as well as Democrats who were genuinely liberal and not automatically evil, it's another thing to suggest that your show would get top ratings for a show with a sketch about comedia del'arte girl that, despite being met with silence the first time round you're going to keep in the show 'because eventually they'll get the joke' and wouldn'tyaknowit, the audience does. I quite like the show about the show, but I don't like it when we see the show within a show.
 
 
gridley
20:32 / 17.10.06
For real. That Nancy Grace sketch was the worst yet. I can only chalk it up to Sorkin's hubris. Theses sketches (especially as bad as they are) should literally be nothing more than background noise to the real plots except when something really unexpected happens during them that affects the plot. I don't understand why the writers don't see that?
 
 
Mouse
20:52 / 17.10.06
And when the show within the show's got 7 minutes of Sting's lute in it, let's not get to experience 7 whole interminable minutes of Sting's lute in the show about the show.
 
 
X-Himy
02:02 / 24.10.06
Just finihed watching episode six. My thought is that this show is intentionally bad. Because surely this could not be accidental. Or perhaps Sorkin is making a bad show about a supposedly good show, but is actually a bad show. Some sort of metaphysical commentary on television?
 
 
Jack Fear
02:19 / 24.10.06
Pressed for time but can I just say holy SHIT are Aaron Sorkin's attitudes about race ALL FUCKED UP.
 
 
gridley
15:01 / 24.10.06
I certainly hope that all the black people in America write letters to Sorkin apologizing for embarassing him with their low brow tastes.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:52 / 24.10.06
Oh, that’s not even the issue. The point of that scene is just that Willy Willz is a hack, and hostility to hacks is what STUDIO 60 is all about; its underlying premise is that if you feed The Public a steady diet of garbage, eventually they develop an appetite for it, and it is up to creators of Taste and Vision to save The Public from itself. The scene played entirely to that current, and Willy’s race was purely coincidental.

But that was the only time on the show when somebody’s race was just incidental.

It’s the weird, recursive spectacle of a white head writer on a show with no black writers giving his one black actor a speech in which he dresses down the white head writer of a show with no black writers for being unable to authentically write the black experience—and accusing him of being held back by his white liberal guilt—and then using that same white liberal guilt to strongarm the white writer into considering hiring a black writer; it’s wheels within wheels.

It’s the apparent nonexistence, in Sorkin’s universe, of a black middle or professional class. Simon didn’t grow up in the suburbs of Columbus, OH—he grew up in South Central. Of course he did.

It’s the recurring white liberal rescue fantasy, the flipside of the guilt, and it goes something like this:

There’s a young black man from the inner city, raised in poverty and touched by violence: but he’s pure of heart, and he wants a better life, and he thinks a lot about uplifting the race. And a good white man recognizes his potential, and his talent, and rewards it... by taking him on as a subordinate. A favorite subordinate, of course—maybe even a surrogate son—but a subordinate still.

That rescue narrative played out with Charlie on THE WEST WING, and it’s played out twice so far on STUDIO 60: first when Matt promoted Simon to co-anchor of the news, instead of wasting him in silly Cosby impersonations, and again last night, when Matt saw the glimmer of true talent in that poor, awful stand-up comedian.

It is an expression of white liberal guilt, sure, but it’s also patronizing and deeply creepy, to be honest.
 
 
X-Himy
17:02 / 24.10.06
I had not even considered the meta-level of the race discussion Jack, but there it is. Let me just say that the comedian that did get the call was downright terrible. There was nothing, nothing!, in either his delivery, manner, or material that would have suggested he had a glimmer of talent. It might have made fine lecture, but that episode was didactic enough without one more person lecturing me on comedy, the history of comedy, the history of television, the history of television comedy, or race and comedy. Sweet freaking lord, at least when it was done on West Wing, it was about something that mattered.

This is not to say that I don't think comedy or art are unimportant. But Sorkin seems to think that being funny makes you Jesus.
 
  

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