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Transformers

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All Acting Regiment

13:03 / 29.04.06

Those big robots, tell us everything you know and think about them.

13:28 / 29.04.06

I'm sorry, are you talking to me?

Weel, it's obvious I'm a fan. They used to be my imaginary friends when I was a wee little lad, back in the 80s. I liked that metaphor of a race split exaclty in half,trapped in a war they did not know how to end (and the fact they are nearly immortal robots didn't make it easy to get over with) that eventually lead them to a energy crisis that threatened their very existence - until they found Earth and a whole new battleground, that is, which brought them back to the beginning. A war of brother against brother, separated by nothing more than a thin-line difference in culture (lets say Autobots were the nerds and Decepticons were the jocks, but they were all kids in the same High School, abandoned by their abusive parents - the Quintessons).

I also liked the relationship between Prime and Megatron. I mean, they were leaders of opposing armies, but you could tell they had a profound respect for each other. Megatron saw Prime as the only Transformer that were at his level in mighty and intelligence, a robot that could turn a bunch of wimpy scientists into a fighting force that could stop the advancement of what was supposed to be the most powerful army in the galaxy. Prime was wise enough to know Megatron should not be underestimated in any way too, be it in strengh, military strategy, or malice, for he was the guy that could keep that unorganized - and not very bright, for the most part, with a few exceptions - bunch of robots together as a coherent group. Without their leaders, both the Autobots and the Decepticons would be an easy pick of the other side. It was interesting to see how a cartoon made to advertise a line of toys could go beyond that simple manicheist view most good vs bad cartoons abbide by - as it was the case with G.I.Joes, for instance - and do it so in such a subtle way.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:28 / 29.04.06

Oh God, Legba, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE???

13:44 / 29.04.06

God, I loved Transformers. The movie is my Star Wars trilogy. I only wish Grant Morrison had written a few fill-ins on the UK comic instead of Zoids.

14:43 / 29.04.06

The Transformers movie was probably the first "war" movie I ever saw as a kid, in a manner of speaking. You watch a billion episodes of the TV show where they shoot lasers at each other and nobody really gets hurt (and the same with GI Joe). It's quite jarring, then, to see the movie and watch a lot of your favorite good guys from the cartoon get killed in wholesale slaughter by the bad guys in the first reel. The way that smoke comes out of their mouths and how Prime rusts when he dies...I still see it as quite a bold move, despite its being made for commercial reasons (they were phasing out the old toys and introducing new ones). I sometimes wonder if at such a young age that influenced, at least in part, my present and decidedly unromanticized views on war, but it's probably just hindsight and a bit of cheekiness on my part.

So hey, what was the deal with Arcee? Was she the only female Transformer or what?

15:15 / 29.04.06

I never got Transformers, still don't.

I preferred Robotech.

But Beast Wars was quality! Quality I say!

alejandrodelloco

15:50 / 29.04.06

I like the song about the death of Optimus (warning MP3 link).

16:35 / 29.04.06

So hey, what was the deal with Arcee? Was she the only female Transformer or what?

I'm pretty sure all Transformers were male. Arcee probably was just transex. But I only especulate.

And Beast Wars was damn good. Sometimes I think it was better than the original cartoon.

Quote from Beast Wars's Optimus Primal: "Sometimes, crazy works"

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:37 / 29.04.06

Legba, if you're making killer robots to commit heinous yet cool acts, please send me a post address so that I send you money to make me one.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:51 / 29.04.06

I also liked the relationship between Prime and Megatron. I mean, they were leaders of opposing armies, but you could tell they had a profound respect for each other.

The sheer wrongness of this statement is as indescribable as it is incalculable. You may have been watching an entirely different Transformers.

Arcee, incidentally, was created to address concerns at the universal maleness of the Transformers, as portrayed in a story in a Transformers Annual. Arcee herself called this as bullshit tokenism.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

18:52 / 29.04.06

'member the Go-bots? God they were shit.

Transformers were all right, though. It has inspired a catch-phrase I still use today: "He is so evil, when you fold him up he turns into a gun".

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

19:00 / 29.04.06

Arcee, incidentally, was created to address concerns at the universal maleness of the Transformers, as portrayed in a story in a Transformers Annual. Arcee herself called this as bullshit tokenism.

Wait, whose concerns? Naturally I think the producers or whoever it was putting it out on television or comics, but if Arcee herself comments on it, and she is not in fact breaking the fourth wall, then I can only assume it was the concern of the Transformers themselves. Did they have notions of gender? Did someone complain that the scene was, to use the parlance of our times, a "total sausage-fest"? Was it Jazz who made this complaint? I bet it was.

19:04 / 29.04.06

So Arcee was the Transformers´ Smurfette?

19:28 / 29.04.06

Arcee, incidentally, was created to address concerns at the universal maleness of the Transformers, as portrayed in a story in a Transformers Annual. Arcee herself called this as bullshit tokenism.

As I recall, it was one of those b/w strips in the middle that they adopted later. (Maybe reprinted in one of the annuals, I think I missed the last ever one.) My pink pen never got such a workout before or since.

20:04 / 29.04.06

Oh, God. That sounds like some kind of awful euphemism.

Look, it was literally a pink pen with which I was colouring the pages in.

20:13 / 29.04.06

Yeah, yeah, pull the other one (fnark)

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:14 / 29.04.06

Wait, whose concerns?

Feminists. No, honestly. This took place after the Autobots had gone public, and apparently the women's movement took a break from fighting for equal rights for humans to protest at the all-male composition of the Transformers.

Having said which, there are other female Transformers - the (non-canonical if you ask me, but then I say the same of the work of Bob Budiansky) TV series shows Prime's old girlfriend, Elita-1, and I believe also some female friends of hers, and the Beast Wars had the very lovely and talented Blackarachnia.

21:24 / 29.04.06

There. Can. Be. Only. Furman.

22:41 / 29.04.06

I also liked the relationship between Prime and Megatron. I mean, they were leaders of opposing armies, but you could tell they had a profound respect for each other.

The sheer wrongness of this statement is as indescribable as it is incalculable. You may have been watching an entirely different Transformers.

By Unicron's endless hunger, Haus, you really think you know everything, don't you? Of course they respected each other. But that doesn't mean they didn't hated each other guts. Their mutual respect was one between nemesis, they respected as each other as nemesis would. Sure, Megatron tried to cheat Prime more than once (it comes to my mind the episode in which they duel in sigle combat), but Megatron sure acknowledged Prime's qualities, and vice-versa. You were not paying attention to the subtext.

the Beast Wars had the very lovely and talented Blackarachnia.

There was also Airazor, and I'm pretty sure Tigerhawk was a hermaphrodite.

22:47 / 29.04.06

But that doesn't mean they hated each other guts. Their mutual respect was one between nemesis, they respected as each other as nemesis would.

Sorry, the sentence above should have said:

But that doesn't mean they didn't hated each other guts. Their mutual respect was one between nemesis, they respected as each other as worth foes would.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:01 / 29.04.06

You mean, they were aware that the other one was very large and quite tasty in a rumble? Certainly. That was as far as respect went, however. Find me a single example of the one praising the positive qualities of the other, and then we'll talk

Why am I having this conversation?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:04 / 29.04.06

There's also Nightbeat, of course, who self-identified as male but was biologically female. But that's a whole different story.

23:26 / 29.04.06

You mean, they were aware that the other one was very large and quite tasty in a rumble? Certainly. That was as far as respect went, however. Find me a single example of the one praising the positive qualities of the other, and then we'll talk

They also were aware of each other's leadership qualities, and inteligence. Just because they never said "I respect him" out loud, it doens't mean they didn't feel it. Why do you think I mentioned the "subtext". I can't reaLly quote episodeS word per word almost 20 years later, but I an onld VHS of the movie, so it comes to my mind their final dialogue before they crushed each other in the Autobot City raid:

"Why throw away your life so recklessly?" "That's a question you should make yourself, Megatron". Just the fact they bother to ask such question show they value each other opinion. To anyone else, Megatron would make some smirking comment - at most - and blast them wiht the fusion cannon. But not Prime, Prime he had to "crush with his bare hands".

Plus, when Prime says "You, who are without mercy, now beg for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff", it becomes evident that he held the Decepticon leader as a transformer of pride and courage (Megatron was lying his ass out of a bad situation, but he never was above trickstery, due to his viciousness and malice)

Plus plus, when confronted by Unicron, Megatron cites his killing of Prime, using the same words (crushing. bare hands.) btw, as a prove of his might. And, for a warrior, that's respect!

And we're having this conversation because: a) you seem to have a need to be always right, and b) you like to use strong, offensive, diminishing language ("The sheer wrongness of this statement is as indescribable as it is incalculable. You may have been watching an entirely different Transformers." to express discordance, even in supposedly light issues, like this one. I mean, are you actually trying to pick a fight?

Bubblegum Death

23:31 / 29.04.06

Whatever happened to Starscream? I know he got killed in the movie, but didn't he come back as a ghost?

23:40 / 29.04.06

In the cartoons, I think so. But the cartoons are not Furman.

There's also Nightbeat, of course, who self-identified as male but was biologically female. But that's a whole different story.

Private dick Nightbeat? Please tell me more. I only remember that time he and Siren beat Thunderwing. (I had Siren, then best pal had Nightbeat, and I sorely envied this property. Would've swapped in a minute.)

Bubblegum Death

23:47 / 29.04.06

Yeah, but the cartoons are canonical to me. I used to watch Transformers and GI Joe everyday after school. My friends and I pretended to BE Transformers for far longer than was healthy.

I had only one issue of the comic. It was the one where Grimlock becomes leader of the Autobots because he has charisma.

23:56 / 29.04.06

Dm, you're actually pretty much totally wrong on this one, as far as I can tell. Megatron was a power-crazed, paranoid fruitbar who didn't respect anything or anybody besides himself. Optimus Prime was well aware of this fact. Now, Grimlock might have had some level of respect for Megatron and somebody like, say, Shockwave for OP. But OP for Megsie and vice versa? Nup.

You gain points for claiming that it's Haus who's trying to turn this into a fight, however. The paranoid fruitbar thing seems to get passed down the generations, it seems.

00:05 / 30.04.06

Dm, you're actually pretty much totally wrong on this one, as far as I can tell. Megatron was a power-crazed, paranoid fruitbar who didn't respect anything or anybody besides himself

Yes, Megatron was all that, but he respected one, and only one other transformer, and it was Prime. Exaclty because He saw himslef as the most powefull/intelligent/cunning of all Tnansformers, but still Prime managed to resist him. And he respected - or, at least, trusted - Shockwave for his efficence and loyalty (in the cartoons, not the comics).

You gain points for claiming that it's Haus who's trying to turn this into a fight, however

Again... "The sheer wrongness of this statement is as indescribable as it is incalculable. You may have been watching an entirely different Transformers.". If that wans't an offense...

But I didn't claim Haus was picking a fight, I asked him if he was.

00:16 / 30.04.06

I would like Haus to namechange to Optimhaus Prime at this point, and then say things like: 'That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron'.

00:19 / 30.04.06

Oh, one more thing. I'm not sure Megatron could be described as paranoid. He only was aware that most of his minions would take any chance at murdering him to steal his leadership (Starscream most of all, obviously). It was a decepticon thing. It's not paranoia when they really are after you, is it?

And fruitbar? Megatron was very cold (albeit sarcastic) and calculating. It was only when he was turned into Galvatron (blargh!) and his brain got half-melted after a while in some sort of alien tar pit (post-movie) that he became a full-fledged "paranoid fruitbar". And the Decepticons became a shadow of what they once were henceforth (the Quintessons struck me as the major bad guys through most of G2). But, "power-crazy", sociopathic* and egomaniacal, yes, he indeed was.

* I'm using the term "sociopathic" as Holywood uses it, and not the clinically precise definition, which means it translate to "very evil and ruthless".

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:22 / 30.04.06

I think it may be a language thing. DM, really, when OP and Megatron ask each other why they are risking their lives, it's a snap. They aren't actually sincerely concerned about each other's welfare or keenly soliciting each other's opinion. Honest.

Undertoad: Starscream's spark survived his disintegration, and became a ghostly presence in the vaults of Cybertron. He was found by Octane, fleeing from Cyclonus under sentence of death, possessed Cyclonus, betrayed Galvatron (inevitably) and then tried to bargain with a reactivated Unicron for a new body. Long story short, he gets the new body, but it is almost immediately blasted into deep space, and is not seen again. That's not Furman, of course, but anyway.

He next turns up in Beast Wars, as a disembodied spark again, presumably having lost his remade body in the depths of space. He possesses one of the Predacons, but is eventually betrayed and left roaming in space again. Subsequently, it is explained that his spark had a unique mutation that made it immortal, and also apparently able to travel in time.

00:24 / 30.04.06

And maybe, um, Stoats could be Stoat Rod and try and back Haus up and then totally fuck things up. Alternatives? Hot Roddy Dupre. ('No ya don't, Megatron' - they all say his name like it's in italics, eh?) Oh, it'd be great.

Everyone could get a TF name. Punce/Counterpunce. Miss Wonderstarrscream. Illmatrix. Wheeljack Fear.

There's more where that came from, I'm sure.

00:25 / 30.04.06

i'm baggsing swoop now, before anyone steals it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:29 / 30.04.06

Falconator: The model for Nightbeat was a Japanese toy called Minerva, a medic, who was a female medi . There's a bunch of stuff about Transtectors which you really don't need to know, because it is completely bloody incomprehensible.

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:31 / 30.04.06

Toksik: Divebomb, dude. Divebomb was stolen. Swoop was the fallback position.

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