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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Veronica Mars

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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

21:44 / 11.10.06

Although with Dick as a pledge that might not pan out very well.

Also, is it just me or was that a LOT of pot for 1 person to use, medicinal or otherwise?

22:55 / 11.10.06

I bought seasons 1 & 2 on the strength of the first couple of posts here. Unfortunately the season 1 box had two disc 2s and no disc 4, arse! so I havn't watched beyond there. My 15 year old daughter, however, couldn't stop herself and she is obsessed, in a good way. She blackmails me with spoiler threats now. I think she may have learnt a little too much from said show.

Thanks for the heads up X.

Spyder Todd 2008

22:12 / 13.10.06

Also, is it just me or was that a LOT of pot for 1 person to use, medicinal or otherwise?

It certainly was... maybe she was sharing it with the rest of the girls.

04:15 / 14.10.06

I hear it's a really good pre-emptive cancer treatment.

Disco is My Class War

13:42 / 26.10.06

Redtara, that's hilarious about your daughter. Well, perhaps not so hilarious... But Veronica is a pretty good role model. She can look after herself. And um, if you can download video onto your hard drive and watch it, PM me and I'll tell you where to get hold of the remainder of Season Two.

Frankly, I'm a bit peeved with VM this season. This is probably because I've been watching it with my partner, who was always a bit suspicious of the slight OC-ness of the 09ers, especially Logan. We are both starting to hate the way the show apologises for Logan. I mean... C'mon, with a boyfriend like Logan, of course. you'd be bugging his car and tracking his phone. Why would you trust him? I don't think their relationship is built to last.

But onto more important things... such as the representation of non-white people in the show. Does it bug anyone else that Wallace and Weevil are both short? Maybe I'm wong, but I kinda read that as the producers making a special effort to ensure that the main non-white men are non-threatening and 'cute'. Plus, it really sucks that the only way they can keep Weevil on as a regular character is to make him the college maintenance man. %Gee, no stereotype going on there.% It's like being back in Nancy Drew. He would have made an excellent assistant to Keith. Veronica made mistakes like the one Eli made all the frakkin' time when she was Keith's assistant -- and she kept her job.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

14:09 / 26.10.06

Eli being the repairman does rub me the wrong way. I LIKED seeing him in a nice shirt and tie, and seeing him be good at detective work. I think writing the show in such a way that the only Hispanic character will be in coveralls most of the time can only be topped if Wallace joins the basketball team and always has a ball with him from then on.

15:44 / 26.10.06

Well, Weevil is a felon and former gang member with a history of theft and violence who is currently out on parole. I would be insulted if he was an educated person, such as Wallace and was a repairmen. But he is a barely rehabilitated criminal, and most of that rehabilitation comes through Veronica. Keith's hiring of Weevil was against his own better judgment, as this was someone that Keith had arrested numerous times when he was sheriff. Weevil is also someone that has been established as someone who was good quite handy, due to working at his uncle's car shop and generally working on his motorcycle. When Weevil screwed up and beat the abusive boyfriend, Keith lost his job. But the thing that Keith was more angry at is that because Keith lost the case, he no longer has the ability to pull the abused girl out of that situation and place her with the grandparents.

What I am saying is that his intuitive wits and general street smarts aside, Weevil has a record a yard long and is currently on parole. This sort of job is frankly a great one for someone in his position. Besides, they are setting Weevil up as Wallace in season 1, the guy with all the keys who can get Veronica through any door. I am excited for that.

You can argue that making Weevil, a hispanic character, and the only hispanic character on the main cast, a gang member and a tough is inherently racist. But there have been a bunch of hispanic secondary characters that are not gang members. This is the world of Veronica Mars, entitled rich (largely) white kids, and poorer (largely) hispanic kids. These class and race divides have been a major part of the first two seasons, are major plot and theme points, and though I am not an expert, accurately reflect the certain area of California that Neptune represents.

16:26 / 26.10.06

I don't think Weevil's career arc is going to end with maintenance man. He enjoyed working with Keith too much. I suspect this is just a slight setback in his evolution into Weevil, P.I.

16:30 / 26.10.06

Veronica made mistakes like the one Eli made all the frakkin' time when she was Keith's assistant -- and she kept her job.

Actually, I think this type of thing works quite well in the show. My thoughts here are that if a show is to concentrate on race and class the way VM does, the worst thing it can do is have race and class be reduced to fashion statements. Thats why I liked it when Eli got carted off during graduation - there is no way that the 09ers would have been treated that way. Similarly, he was good at the detective job and did no worse that VM herself, but gets punished disporportionately. Thats the point, the way I read it, and its a much better point than having positive role models. (Assuming I'm right, of course.)

16:50 / 26.10.06

Well, I don't know if Weevil got punished disproportionately. Sure, he got a greater punishment than Veronica might have, but that is because Veronica is Keith's daughter! That's nepotism. If it had been Logan, I have no doubt that Keith would have kicked him on his ass. And again, I think Keith's complaint is not that he lost the job and the money, but that losing the job left the little girl in an abusive situation. I don't know if Veronica has made a mistake like that.

Granted, Veronica makes a lot of mistakes. A lot of the show is about where she discovers something, or busts someone on something to later regret it. Such as the pot this season, or the teacher/rapist in season one.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:55 / 26.10.06

Of what I've seen from Season 3 so far, I'm hoping that Parker's rape is going to be the Big Bad Mystery for the season, because it feels like it gets dropped too quickly. Veronica feels bad about the pot expose' and spontaneously ignores the "other issue." Her dynamic with Parker after talking to Lamb suggests some potentially intriguing character work could happen between them.

Disco is My Class War

04:35 / 27.10.06

I agree that the whole race/class thing is up for question -- at the same time, it's a pity that the writers seem to think the only way to reveal and critique racist/classist political dynamics is to repeat them, however emphatically. Doesn't that require that the spectator be already able to read a political critique of that dynamic into the text? It pisses me off that in comparison with Little Dick C, who's now being writen as 'going off the deep end', and for whom we're being asked, I think, to feel sympathy and pathos rather than looking at him as the dumb comic relief guy, Weevil's arc doesn't even happen in screentime, and he's presented as exactly the same: violent, on parole, unable to restrain himself, but with the same 'heart of gold'. We don't get to access Weevil's feelings as much as Dick's, and it's not because Ryan Hansen is a better actor.

I remember reading an interview with Rob Thomas recently about the 'mystery' this season. Apparently we're getting three smaller mysteries broken up into 8 eps each, instead of one big one, and I guess the rapes are the first 'small mystery'. (It seems wrong to describe it like that, but such is television.) Good move, I reckon. Also, Richard Grieco is coming on for six episodes.

11:09 / 27.10.06

Doesn't that require that the spectator be already able to read a political critique of that dynamic into the text?

Well, yes, but only in a very weak sense that isn't any kind of obstruction at all. No one can really fail to understand in the episode where Eli gets expelled, but gets saved by Logan owning up to the same prank, that there is an injustice at play here.

When people don't take racism seriously (in contemporary society), it is because they don't think racism is a relevant concern and not because they think it is perfectly ok to discriminate based on race. So, in that sense, what VM is doing doesn't seem like a pity to me.

The problem I have with it is that the race and class issues it tackles often seem like window dressing, designed to make the show more interesting than the focus on rich white kids and their crazy lives would be. The idea that people somehow get what they deserve is very hard to shake, even though VM takes a stab at it.

Disco is My Class War

11:21 / 27.10.06

the race and class issues it tackles often seem like window dressing, designed to make the show more interesting than the focus on rich white kids and their crazy lives would be

Exactly. But the OC-ness creeps through still.

I should say that I absolutely love this show, watch it obsessively, and think it's way beter than most TV shows. But obsessive viewing makes one more critical, at times.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

02:33 / 28.10.06

Disco: I remember reading an interview with Rob Thomas recently about the 'mystery' this season. Apparently we're getting three smaller mysteries broken up into 8 eps each, instead of one big one, and I guess the rapes are the first 'small mystery'. (It seems wrong to describe it like that, but such is television.) Good move, I reckon. Also, Richard Grieco is coming on for six episodes.

"Small" might be relative to the rather convoluted season-long verging-on-melodrama mysteries from before, rather than importance; especially given Veronica's experience in season 1; more like a story arc to further her character development.

I'm glad that Mac is being made a more central cast member; I quite enjoy her. She & Parker have a lot of potential as foils for each other, especially as Parker strikes as a more approachable version of Mac's "switched-at-birth" twin, Madison.

That said, I'm finding that (so far) it feels like the characters have all signed non-disclosure agreements not to bring up what happened before past a few mentions in the premiere; I loved that moment between Mac and Dick, but since then it's like We Don't Talk about Lily Ever and certainly never mention Logan's family.

Spyder Todd 2008

16:24 / 28.10.06

That said, I'm finding that (so far) it feels like the characters have all signed non-disclosure agreements not to bring up what happened before past a few mentions in the premiere; I loved that moment between Mac and Dick, but since then it's like We Don't Talk about Lily Ever and certainly never mention Logan's family.

I don’t know about that, Papers. While I can certainly understand the network’s desire to distinguish the CW series from the UPN one (as signaled by the snazzy new title sequence), they’re not really ignoring the past, just trying to move on from it. The most recent episode focused heavily on Logan’s family and just how fucked up Aaron really was. While I’d agree that there’s a feel of “Exciting 1st Issue! Veronica Mars! (vol.2)” to the CW series, it references past episodes just enough to keep itself safely away from “Veronica Mars: Man of Steel” territory.

…
I need to find ways of expressing myself without using comic book references…

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

13:51 / 30.10.06

Ah, makes sense. Partly because I hadn't actually realized VM had changed networks. Interesting.

Currently, I'm powering through Season 2. Huh. I'm so impressed by Veronica's ability to multi-task; I'm not sure I could handle more than, oh, solving 1.5 mysteries at a time.

But, you know, the appeal of Duncan perplexes me, he's so remarkably passive.

Neptune continues to be such a morally bankrupt town but there are these moments...such as when the one teacher with lots of stock in Casablancas, Inc. refuses to sell his stock right before the company is officially found to be fraudulent, on the grounds that he's not going to make his problem into someone else's problem.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

20:37 / 30.10.06

So upon rewatching the first episode of the season I noticed that the TA for Veronica's criminology class is named 'Foil'.
I wonder if he will just be her rival for the Prof's attention or perhaps a villain.

05:28 / 31.10.06

These class and race divides have been a major part of the first two seasons, are major plot and theme points, and though I am not an expert, accurately reflect the certain area of California that Neptune represents.

It's based on the northern part of San Diego County which San Diegans oh-so-creatively call "North County," which happens to be where I live at the moment. I live about 20 minutes or so from the high school which doubles as Neptune High, which is in the Marine-base city of Oceanside, but it more accurately reflects the culture of nearby areas like Rancho Bernardo, Rancho Penasquitos, Poway (where I live until my lease runs out Nov 25), etc.

Anyway, San Diego geo-geeking aside, yeah, Veronica Mars pretty much nails class and race divides in the San Diego area (and in nearby Orange County) pretty much perfectly, as well as many other things about life here.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

00:42 / 01.11.06

Elijah: I wonder if he will just be her rival for the Prof's attention or perhaps a villain.

Probably her rival, almost in the vein of Lamb but not quite so vitriolic, I'd hope. I'm hoping they can find some new twist on the "underestimating the cute blonde girl" angle that usually comes up.

I have just now finished watching Season 2. Frenzied, by the end. After the big, psychotic coming together of all plots, the image of Mac sitting beside the bed with her knees up to her chin set the whole thing off; she was only peripheral to the action but there's this whole layer of suffering especially for the supporting cast.

Curious to know if the "mean girl" turned teacher, Hauser, who refers to Jackie as trash (in front of the principal!) was ever, you know, disciplined for her actions?

Disco is My Class War

01:07 / 01.11.06

That whole episode about the Carnival left heps of loose ends hanging; actually it didn't really hang together very well, what with the six subplots. I assume Ms Hauser was dismissed because she stole the cash, right? But who would remember he stealing the cash when she'd already been racist and bitchy with no discipline?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

01:40 / 01.11.06

Other than, ah, engineering his predecessor's downfall, the principal always seemed reasonably decent, as people go-- it stuck out to me that he didn't really react to her going off at Jackie, especially considering he knows what Veronica's wrath is like.

One aspect of the show I'd like more of is the ongoing question of who Leanne Mars is, what she was like as a child, and what her motivations are. I'd like to see where she is now. And, possibly, a scene with her and Duncan's mother in the same room.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

15:41 / 08.11.06

Well last nights episode was pretty interesting.

SPOILER SPACE

We have one student expelled for faking a serial rape to discredit a frat house. The editor of the student paper was fired by the Dean for not publishing Veronica's story about the false claims. I think the editor will be part of the later plot lines this season.

Also in this episode Veronica is accused of cheating on an A paper in her criminology class. She tracks the accuser down in a way only a TV detective can and it turns out she was set up by Tim Foil. She was set up, not to discredit her, but so she would discover that the totally cool criminology teacher is having an affair with the Dean's wife. Wallace stops playing basketball for the school team so he can focus more on his mechanical engineering class, Pizz tries to sneak a date with Veronica but she brings along Logan and Parker, Parker is into Pizz but Pizz isn't feeling it.

Finally in the episode is the guy who ran the casino in his room being arrested for the rapes, because the Sherrif recovered the casino cashbox and found GHB in it, and because Veronica found hair clippers in his room after Parker recognized his cologne.

This was a pretty full episode, and I didn't even mention Keith almost getting killed in a car wreck and deciding to start an adulturous relationship with his former client.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

17:18 / 29.11.06

So, the rape mystery was solved in last nights episode.

My fiance is totally stoked that she called

Spoiler space

out the RA as the rapist pretty damn early, somewhere around episode 1 of the season.

I was ok with the reveal that there were two rapists working together, and the overall feel of the episode. I did, however, begin shouting at the screen as soon as Veronica left the party to go catch the bad guy on her own. It seems like the writers knew they wanted a good Veronica-in-danger finale but had no real plans on how to get there, so they made her really stupid for 12 minutes of the episode. Pizz was still at the party with her, I would imagine that Logan and Wallace both have cel phones. If she knew where the next rape was going to take place I would think Keith would have shown up if she called him.

The timing threw me off as well, with Mercer leaving the convo with Veronica and Logan in the same minute that Wallace and Pizz found the doped drink of a girl who had already left the party. Veronica then somehow got to the dorm far enough ahead of Mercer to set him up. Felt rushed and sloppy.

The episode redeemed itself not with the obvious set up for the next mystery (wow, someone was murdered right after the students turned in their Perfect Murder papers!) but with Logan smashing the cop car so he could get into the same cell as Mercer and RA guy.

Like I said, overall a satisfying episode, but there was that 12 minutes that made me grumpy, like Mohinder not guessing what his dad's password was.

17:52 / 29.11.06

I agree on all counts. The sloppy climax was weak, but Logan getting jailed so he could beat on Veronica's abusers was awesome.

Hopefully this storyline will be the end of gloomy, sadsack Veronica for a while. I miss peppy, sassy Veronica.

22:51 / 29.11.06

Just watched it, and need to think on it more before completing a larger post. But here is a thought:

SPOILER

It seems that the RA was not a rapist himself, but the setup man, basically Mercer's servant. Why would the RA do this, basically make himself subservient to Mercer (constantly calling him sir, etc). The RA mentioned being part of the Millgram-esque prison experiment the year before (the same one that Wallace and Logan participated in). I am betting that Mercer participated in that same experiment, and the control has gone on far past it. Witness a mention an episode or two ago where Horschack (from Freaks and Geeks) was caught cheating on a test for Rafe (from Boy Meets World) in Wallace's class.

SPOILER

23:03 / 29.11.06

"The RA mentioned being part of the Millgram-esque prison experiment the year before (the same one that Wallace and Logan participated in)"

Well yeah, that was the picture on Moe's wall. He as a prisoner and Mercer as a guard.

I did love the Logan sequence at the end too. And I didn't expect the big break up to happen 5 minutes into the episode.

17:33 / 30.11.06

it seems the RA would have had to rape at least one girl when Mercer was burning down the Mexican hotel with Logan.

Veronica's use and misuse of a cellphone is truely astounding sometimes. she has time to hide in the closet and the best she can do is call in a fake bomb threat?

18:47 / 30.11.06

Wasn't that rape one of the rapes faked by the Lillith House?

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

19:44 / 30.11.06

The one during Pizz's (??) radio show was faked I think, the one while they were in Mexico wasn't ever mentioned again or specifically.

00:46 / 01.12.06

There was an idea that more than rape faked by the Lillith House. This of course seems like a terribly irresponsible thing for them to do.

11:57 / 01.12.06

Yeah, it's my understand that the rape during the Mexico trip was one of the ones faked by the ladies of Lilith. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how the writers decided that plot twist was a good idea.

14:02 / 01.12.06

Claire was expelled for faking her rape the episode before Mercer was picked up as a suspect. wouldn't the fake rape have been taken off the list for him to check his alibi against by then?

"I guess you right Mercer you couldn't have raped that girl that night that was the fake rape. Sorry we locked you up."

also, didn't Veronica got Mercer off because he was supposedly DJ'ing live a night a rape took place?

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

15:36 / 01.12.06

It is my understanding (based on my own viewing experience, ymmv) that Claire's rape during Pizz's radio broadcast was fake (Claire being 'the blonde in the middle' leads me to think the Lillith House faked this in order to discredit both the Frats and the Lampoon).

There was not any confirmation that they faked any other rapes, so my assumption was that the nights Mercer needed an alibi for were real.

Again, the timing issue in the last episode confuses me. Mercer left saying something like 'catch my show later' I thought. I am not sure why Veronica would know the show was a recording when she hears him later. The only assumption I could make is that I might have missed something earlier in the season where she heard the same call on his show when it was live.

I find it interesting that a schedule spreadsheet was enough to get Mercer out of jail without anyone asking around the studio (or looking at the security cameras that they MUST have with their expensive gear) to see if he was actually there...

17:54 / 01.12.06

Did we ever find out why Dick showed up at Logan's door crying about having made sort of mistake? I just remembered that scene but can't remember what that was about.

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