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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Veronica Mars

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21:27 / 28.04.06

I am shocked that no one else is watching this show. Or if people are, then no one is bloody talking about it. Set in the fictional Neptune, CA, a "town without a middle class" where you are either the ultra-rich or work for the ultra-rich. Interesting characters mix with witty writing in a show that is equal parts mystery and social commentary. Veronica Mars is the perky daughter of the sherrif whose best friend Lilly, the daughter of the richest man in town is killed. Her father pursues the murdered girl's father as a suspect and is run out of office. A suspect comes forward and confesses, and now sits on death row. But a year later, there are too many questions unanswered, too many mysteries unsolved. And Veronica has gone from popular to outcast. Her mother has disappeared, and Veronica now works with her father as a private investigator.

This show is beyond wonderful, and probably my favorite currently on television. Each episode has its own individual mysteries and plotlines, and the entire season has an overarching mystery. While each individual episode wraps up at the end of an hour, they also flow into the overall storyline. Genuine character development makes the character's easy to love.

And the best part? The whole damn thing wraps up in a season. None of the plodding mysteries of a show like Twin Peaks or the X-Files, which drag on long after the fanbase has lost interest. At the end of season one, you find out whodunnit. And, hopefully, at the end of season two, we will find the solution to this season's mystery.

There are plenty of cameos and recurring characters from the Buffy/Angel cast, including my favorite Alyson Hannigan as a spoiled and talentless daughter of a famous actor. Charisma Carpenter shows up as gold digging trophy wife. Joss Whedon has a cameo, as does Kevin Smith as a funny clerk (in a turn so post-ironic it comes right back around to being ironic).

Is anyone watching this show? I have managed to turn a number of converts at just watching the first episode. And the waiting list for my first season DVD set is growing at an exponential rate. If it isn't showing around you, go download it!

10:52 / 29.04.06

I have heard a lot of good things about this. But it´s not showing here (anyway I don´t have a tv). Maybe in a year or two, I can rent it as a DVD.

Since january I can´t download anymore either. They shut down my favourite server (razorback 2 in switzerland) and there are new laws, that make downloading illegal and very risky.

But I´m looking forward to seeing it nonetheless!

Spyder Todd 2008

14:39 / 29.04.06

I was totally going to start this thread last week, but got distracted. This show rules. As my flatmate put it, its the Batman to Buffy's Superman. Except that Veronica's not a total bitch to all her friends (although she's not above manipulating them to get what she needs). Favorite character is definetely Logan, with Weevil in a close second. Everyone should be watching this show. Seriously.

15:32 / 29.04.06

Best show evah!

Forced into this conversation

16:15 / 29.04.06

@ Mistoffelees
Actually it IS showing here, Saturdays on ZDF at 2:00. Not that it matters much if you don´t have a tv.

I´ve only seen the first episode, but always missed it since. It was quite promising though.

19:01 / 29.04.06

Aha, Jesus, that´s good to know, anyway! If they already show it on tv, there´ll hopefully be the DVDs to rent soon.

Disco is My Class War

12:10 / 30.04.06

We had very high hopes for VM after a bunch of friends began comparing it to Buffy. Maybe that was what killed it for us. Downloaded the first season and enjoyed it, for a while, until the relentless peppiness and continuity errors became too jarring. Sometimes the scripts are just so lazy! The actor playing Veronica wasn't emotionally present, or something -- she's all surface, no depth. And the class war was... well... There's a schism at the shows' heart, at least for Season One, which is: if Veronica is so resistant to the 'it kids', why do they make her constantly relive her past as one of them? Why do they make her actively wwant to be one of them again, when we can see that they're total assholes? I can handle character ambivalence, but not when it's so jarring and badly handled.

15:12 / 30.04.06

As for Veronica's dual hatred of the rich kids, and the desire to be one of them again, this is discussed, though moreso in the second season. Weevil usually does a good job of bringing Veronica down, referring to her year of living dangerously. The rich might be assholes, but they were assholes who were nice to Veronica. She is bitter about all that has happened and that it does not include her now.

Disco, what continuity errors are you talking about exactly? I generally felt that the show was well constructed, and the solution, so to speak was neither predictable or out of left field.

15:14 / 30.04.06

I'd also like to argue against your dislike of Kristen Bell (the actress playing Veronica). There are some scenes where:

SPOILER

She realizes that she might be Duncan's sister, and that Keith is not her father, where she just breaks down. It is neither pathetic nor unbelievable in my opinion.

SPOILER ENDS

Disco is My Class War

02:48 / 01.05.06

Yeah.... I know the scene you're talking about, but I could still tell she was acting. I wasn't carried away. It might be that she's still learning and needs some time to feel totally comfortable in the role, but argh. It was hard to watch.

And continuity errors: in episodes seven or eight, Season One, there were a bunch of moments where people suddenly know things without having been told, as if part of a scene had been cut. Maybe I downloaded the wrong edit, but it didn't seem right.

And yes, Weevil cuts V. down to size -- until he becomes friends with the poor little rich wanker. Which, come on, would never happen.

02:56 / 01.05.06

The actor playing Veronica wasn't emotionally present, or something -- she's all surface, no depth.

Seriously? I think Kristen Bell gives an amazing layered performance that often has a lot of subtext to it. A little shocked to see her compared negatively when you're holding up Buffy as a superior example (although maybe you weren't doing so in terms of acting).

if Veronica is so resistant to the 'it kids', why do they make her constantly relive her past as one of them?

Because she's not actually "so resistant" when it gets right down to it. She's still a teenager. It still hurts.

And yes, Weevil cuts V. down to size -- until he becomes friends with the poor little rich wanker. Which, come on, would never happen

...and which, if you've followed the show, doesn't happen.

21:44 / 01.05.06

I watched the first season on DVD and enjoyed it, but didn't love it. I think the problem is partially due to the fact that all I was hearing was "It's the next Buffy," and yes, the main characters are similar, but this show is much more plot based than Buffy ever was. Buffy is basically a character drama, while this show is more a mystery show with some character stuff on the side. Most of the episodes were enjoyable, but only the last few of the season were really emotionally involving.

Here's the review I did after finishing the season.

FIRST SEASON SPOILERS

I'm still mad at the show for backing down from having Duncan and Veronica actually be brother and sister. When Duncan says they had sex, that was a huge "Oh, shit" moment and I couldn't believe they actually went there. So, when it wsa revealed they weren't actually related, it felt like the writers didnt' have the courage to go to this truly disturbing, but potentially more interesting place.

Disco is My Class War

18:37 / 18.05.06

I'm in, like, the biggest procrastination episode of my life right now. A week ago, bored, I downloaded the last 11 episodes of Season One, which I hadn't seen. I watched them all, one after another, in three days.

I've got to renege on all my previous criticisms now. I was shocked at how good those episodes were. Shocked. It seemed like a different show. I think maybe that the episodes I saw earlier were censored for an 8.30pm slot on TV, and that some of the continuity must have been cut too.

(SPOILERS)

I'm impressed with Kirsten Bell's acting ability; impressed with Veronigan (because there was chemistry! And the writing was great! Silly lines, rather than serious romantic crap); impressed with the solution to who killed Lily Kane. I wouldn't have dreamt that Logan would turn out to be such a sympathetic character, but still be as fucked up as he is in the beginning. They're really committed to complexity.

I was also impressed with the show's refusal to stitch up a happy ending by reconciling the Mars family. I think Lianne's return could have been handled just a little bit better -- what, no questions about where she'd been for the last year from Keith? He just welcomes her back with open arms? But considering all the other plot arcs exploding at the same time, I can forgive them that one lapse. And I love that she jets out with the cheque at the end. Classy Mom.

It was awesome, and I am now downloading Season Two. Definitely a fan now.

Spyder Todd 2008

22:24 / 18.05.06

Yay for more fans! Also, good news! The its been confirmed that Veronica Mars is returning next season on the CW. And season two's finally was great. So yes. Rock on.

23:01 / 25.08.06

I can't believe I haven't watched this show before. A couple of days ago I was idly surfing peekvid a site that collates all the quasi-legal (i.e. good) bits of youtube, when I found pretty much every episode of the first two series of Veronica Mars.

I've spent all my spare time in the last three days watching the first series and oh my gosh is it good. Each self-contained detective story throws an impossible range of red-herrings at you while still keeping plausibility and Kirsten Bell as Veronica is a revelation. My perception of Buffy was always that if you wanted Sarah Michelle Gellar as your girlfriend then you would be a fan - I didn't and wasn't. Whereas Veronica Mars is precisely the kind of mixed-up brilliant person who you want to keep your distance from, yet whose escapades and self-revelations keep you rooting for her.

The show tackles the class divide and social perception with incredible gusto, particularly in the presentation of Veronica's family's constant permutations. I personally hoped that she would get together with Wallace, but instead, at the end of the first series its suggested that they may even become brother and sister. This is a really cunning juxtaposition with the possibility of Duncan Kane being her brother, which thankfully stays clear of 'Twin Peaks' territory, a decision on the part of the writers which I think enrichens the shows value as entertainment.

Veronica Mars gives a nod to freakshow-like controversy whilst keeping a cool Private Investigator's distance. Does this hold up in the second series or am I in for disappointment?

Spyder Todd 2008

15:56 / 26.08.06

Season 2 is a lot darker, in my opinion, but that’s probably why I liked it even more than season one.

SPOILERISH
A big part of this is because instead of simply one murder that is being solved, there are about 20 people all at once killed. To be honest, though, that’s not at all the darkest moment in the series. A lot of things that happen in season one are brought up again, and put in an entirely new (and usually unpleasant) light. It’s good stuff.

18:21 / 26.08.06

I'm watching season two now, through the first nine, and really liking it. I don't think the show approaches the quality of Buffy, but it's always entertaining and the continuity between episodes is a lot stronger this time around, resolving one of my major issues with the first season, the fact that there was too much standalone mystery of the week stuff.

However, I still feel like most of the characters aren't that well developed, Duncan's barely got any personality and Logan seems generally unaffected by the absolutely absurd amount of awful stuff that's happened to him. They seem to be trying to portray him as a regular guy a little bit off when a lot of his actions are closer to psycho territory. The fact that he's gone so far makes the love triangle between him, Veronica and Duncan a bit absurd. There should be no way she'd be with him. I think it's a bit different than even something like Buffy/Spike, when Buffy was together with Spike he had the chip and was changed, Logan's still doing some very violent stuff, and I can't see the two of them getting back together, even though the story seems to be pushing them that way.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

19:01 / 28.08.06

I am with you on that Patrick.

My fiance loves the show, and I watch it when she does and downloaded season 2 for her.

Every time I watch it Logan is a total asshole and I mention it, and she starts explaining how he really is a nice guy because of an episode I missed.

If a show has a bad-guy who they want to humanize they need to stop making him a total ass every 3 episodes.

Although the season 2 episode where he become deputy mayor for the day (or some other title) was great, and worked well to set up the rest of the season.

12:24 / 30.08.06

You guys just don't understand Logan!!! My sweet Logan!!!

But seriously, you don't. He's one of the best characters on tv right now. Savagely witty, ceaselessly tragic, explosively romantic.

19:33 / 30.08.06

Sure Logan's a psychotic jackass, Veronica says it right in the first episode. But he is a thousand times more interesting than Duncan, who doesn't show an iota of forward motion or energy.

nedrichards is confused

21:43 / 30.08.06

Duncan's an interesting one. I had a theory that the show was set up to star him a lot more (even than it already does) but they realised that he was actually made of wood early doors and promoted Logan instead. Either that or it's one of the most impressively sustained antidepressants == 'you a zombie' characterisations in recent memory.

It could be that actually.

I can't believe there's no love for my man Wallace though, his hair alone is reason to love. Or Mac! (although her hatred for Ubuntu still rankles) In case you can't see this is my favourite show on TV, by a huge margin.

23:06 / 30.08.06

I feel like they were going for a Buffy/Spike dynamic with Veronica and Logan, but the major issue is that Veronica doesn't have that attraction to darkness that Buffy did. With Buffy and Spike there was this uneasy dynamic where Spike was being pulled towards goodness and Buffy being pulled towards badness and they'd meet somewhere in the middle. There was an acknowledgement that these weren't two ordinary people and there was something unhealthy about the relationship. We don't get that with Veronica and Logan, plus, as I said before, Veronica isn't really built to want a relationship with someone like Logan.

I guess one of my big issues with the show is the fact that Veronica is such an authoritarian character, she's so conniving in getting what she wants it's hard to feel for her. Her main flaw is a continuing defiance of authority figures, which she's sometimes punished for, but generally the consequences don't last more than an episode. Look at the one where she helps Duncan kidnap his baby, Keith seems to be furious at her, like she's finally pushed things too far and she needs real reprimanding. However, that's never touched on again.

I guess what I'd like to see is an arc that explores the morality of what Veronica does and force her to confront her methods.

Side note, but I just watched the episode with the actors who play George Michael and Maebe on Arrested Development and it was a bit of a downer that they wound up in the episode about date rape. Everything Michael Cera does is hilarious and I'd have liked to see him get to do some more comedic stuff. And it was a bit weird that he was playing a college student when he's actually eight years older than Kristen Bell.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:11 / 31.08.06

Patrick, I know we've been through this before, but Spike was a unrepentant mass murderer when Buffy got involved with him. Do you really think Logan is more DARQUE?

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

14:31 / 31.08.06

Fly, I am glad there is someone else on this board who appreciates spelling things Gothique for emphasis.

I don't deny that Logan is a pretty cool character, what I dislike is for every one episode where he does something honorable or right there are two that show us what a total assclown he is. I like the way the character is written a lot of the time, like this quote:

Clemmons: Mr. Echolls, I was wondering if I could have a word?
Logan: "Anthropomorphic." All yours, big guy.

I hope that if the goal is to make Logan a likeable but tragic 'good guy' on the show they stop making him out to be a self centered souless prick.

16:57 / 31.08.06

"Souless prick" seems to imply that he does the things he does for absolutely no reason. I would contend that all of Logan's moments of brash, even violent, thuggery are motivated by his need to protect himself and the people he cares about.

Disco is My Class War

02:19 / 01.09.06

Why does Logan need to be either a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy'? Surely the fun lies in how he's a little bit inconsistent, contradictory, unpredictable? I hope they don't make him a likeable but tragic good guy. People keep watching, I think, partially because they keep hoping for some kind of redemptive Logan moment -- but if it happened, he would become boring.

14:16 / 01.09.06

Why does Logan need to be either a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy'? Surely the fun lies in how he's a little bit inconsistent, contradictory, unpredictable?

"He's a complicated man, no one understands him but his woman..." Actually, I'm not even 100% sure Veronica understands him. But I do. Do you hear me, Logan? I understand you!!!

20:06 / 02.09.06

Patrick, I know we've been through this before, but Spike was a unrepentant mass murderer when Buffy got involved with him. Do you really think Logan is more DARQUE?

I don't think that Spike was a less morally objectionable character, it's just that in the world of Buffy, that seemed a lot more acceptable. She'd already gotten together with another mass murderer and much of the Spike arc was about how he was trying to repent.

However, the major difference is that Buffy/Spike, particularly in season six, dealt with how she knows their relationship is wrong, but is still drawn to it. I think that would be a really interesting, and appropriate direction, to go with Veronica/Logan. Veronica is incredibly harsh on other people who do bad things, yet she is able to consider dating Logan without ever addressing the issue of his possible involvement in a murder, and confirmed involvement in a bunch of other shady stuff. So, I guess what I'm looking for is more examination of why she's attracted to himm and the way that it seems to contradict a lot of her other moral stands.

I do like Logan as a morally ambiguous character, and I would hate to see him go either pure good or pure bad, I think it's just that the show doesn't do enough to examine that moral ambiguity, rather than they skim over his bad deeds when it comes time to put him together with Veronica.

Disco is My Class War

06:52 / 04.09.06

yet she is able to consider dating Logan without ever addressing the issue of his possible involvement in a murder, and confirmed involvement in a bunch of other shady stuff.

(spoilerific, as if anyone hasn't seen this yet)

Dude, doesn't she break up with him when he gets involved in too much shady stuff? I think it's nice that she trusts him enough to believe he didn't kill Felix. She has to trust someone at that point, her Dad's in hospital and she has no-one else to look after her, in the particular way that Logan does. (Despite that 'looking after' having been related entirely in flashback, extra-diegetically, and ending extra-diegetically too.) I think Logan operates in the 'small b' bad sense on VM: in comparison to the Big Bads (Aaron Echols, the Mayor) Logan is bad because he's a confused and immature adolescent.

Although of course the whole point of the second season is to break down that distinction between 'small bad' (adolescent, immature, confused/disturbed) and 'big bad' (adult, psychotic, mass-murdery.) That's why it gets so dark, right?

12:48 / 09.09.06

I just saw the Season 2 episode in which Veronica visits the River Styx -- I almost ran out of the room! I quite like that idea that she's no longer an outcast, because now, the continuing direness of her world makes the show all the more disturbing, on a more "environmental" level -- it's not simply that People are Being Mean to Veronica, but that something generally stinks. As Dick said, "something died in here". And how creepy is Steve Gutenberg?

17:35 / 06.10.06

So, season 3 has started, and so far Logan hasn't killed anyone. Let's see how long it lasts!

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

20:33 / 06.10.06

I missed a fair bit of seaon 2,

SPOILERS

I know the breifcase came from Cordelia (don't recall the character name) and so far we don't know what exactly was in it.
Who was the guy Veronica's dad picked up at the jail, has he been introduced previously?

02:38 / 07.10.06

Season premiere was pretty solid, but I feel like the show will soon run into the same issues as Buffy season four, namely that college just isn't as good a place for storytelling as high school. I feel like they've got to gradually prepare her to move into more general real world mysteries. I think it's the lack of community and universally relatable experience, everyone has roughly the same high school, but college is very disparate and that makes it hard to focus stories there.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:40 / 11.10.06

After last nights episode it seems that the writers decided they want people to actually LIKE Logan, so they put him up against someone who was being a bigger asshole then he was in the first season.

I gotta say it worked pretty well.

20:54 / 11.10.06

Yeah, nice to see Logan using his smartass abilities for good, rather than evil once in a while. I'm guessing that since Veronica's cover is already blown, she's going to send Logan to join/infiltrate that fraternity, which should provide plenty of excellent opportunities for his one-liners.

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