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Learning Magic & Overcoming Magical Paranoia

 
  

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dmj2012
05:57 / 28.04.06
I've been a long time reader of various texts on magic and mysticism, usually folks in the Chaos Magic vein like Phil Hine and such, but I don't have alot of experience with casting or rituals.

Lately I want to start practicing, but I find myself with what I'll term "magical paranoia." When I start planning a ritual, I find myself getting bogged down in details about how to word the ouotcome. I find myself overly paranoid about stories of folks who "got what they wished for, but with bad repurcussions." A really simple example: guy casts spell to lose weight, gets hit by car and loses weight while in the hospital. That sort of thing. And once I get into that mindset, I find myself getting bogged down in the details about the wording of the outcome, which then takes the focus off the simple aspects.

Any advice or stories from people about how to overcome this? I probably just need a little re-assurance from those who've done various workings successfully.

My other issue is that given that my areas of interest lie in perception psychology and the mind (NLP, Robert Anton Wilson, et al), I find myself wondering about what sort of outcome to work towards. If doing a ritual to overcome money issues, do I make the outcome "to bring more money into my life" or do I do something along the lines of a ritual "to overcome my fears about money?" Subtle differences, and I'd like to hear from people with more experience in this area.

I'm looking forward to hearing your answers.
 
 
Isadore
07:08 / 28.04.06
What I found worked well for me in moving from armchair to practice was to pick an already-written ceremony, the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram in my case, and just work with that for a while, until comfortable enough to move on. (Then I added the Middle Pillar in. It's a good set of daily exercises, although the whole counting-your-breath thing still screws me up.)

At some point, you just have to jump in and start swimming.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:47 / 28.04.06
You see, this is one of the reasons why I think the chaos magic sigil method, contrary to popular opinion, is actually a bit shit as a gateway drug to magic. The emphasis on statement of intent and exact wording tends to create these absurd situations where people tie themselves up in knots over stupid stuff like this, placing you in a headspace that's a fair distance from where you ought to be if you want this stuff to sink in fully and start working for you. Results magic is a primal business. Black candle on the enemies photo smeared with blood. Witch bottle filled with iron nails and urine. Handfuls of dirt and meat and bone. Get your conscious self and what you want out of the picture and operate with the primal animal bits of you, the lizard brain, the root of your being.

The more you piss about with the exact wording, the more you fret over the minutia of procedure, the further away you get from being "in the zone" to make strong conjure. I mean, if you followed your current line of enquiry to its logical conclusion you would be employing a team of lawyers to look over the wording of your statement of intent before you do anything, to make sure there's nothing there that "the universe" might misinterpret. It's absurd. Magic just doesn't work like that. It doesn't read the small print, and the more small print and clauses you try to put into it, the more you muddy the issue of what your doing and the less likely it is that your intent will get through at all. It's a blunter, more brutal instrument than you seem to think it is. Yes, there are ways and means of applying tighter precision, but for what you seem to be doing, you don't really need to worry about that too much. You want it blunt. You want it primal. You want it to work.

Your conscious, everyday, waking self is trying to run the show, and that part of you is not the magician. So you need to get that guy/girl out of the way for a bit if you want this to work. Why not keep words out of it altogether. You want prosperity magic? Walk out of your house right now. If you live in a City, go to the financial district. Walk around and look for 7 items that represent wealth drawing to you. It may take you more than one adventure to get them all. Be open to possibilities. It could be a coin found on the street. It could be dirt from the grounds of a bank. It could be a photo of a successful business. A bit of overheard conversation to use as an incantation. Whatever. Let it happen. Let it emerge.

When you feel you have all of your items. Bind them together in a green cloth bag. Feed it with liquor. Burn three or seven green candles around the bag over three or seven nights. Sit with the bag. Whisper to it. Tell it what you want. These are just guidelines. Get creative. Make it yours. Discover your own personal unique way of making magic work. Discover it by doing it, experimenting, letting it emerge naturally out of the work. Stop worrying. Trust yourself and the magician inside you to take care of business.

Now go to it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:43 / 28.04.06
A really simple example: guy casts spell to lose weight, gets hit by car and loses weight while in the hospital. That sort of thing.

Okay, you know, I've been at this a while and I have never seen anything like this happen. Ever. To anyone. Yeah, sometimes you'll get a slightly shit result, sometimes it's like the Universe decides to take you down a peg or two, but magic is not out to get you. If you're out to make mischief for someone it can blow up in your face, but a little spell to lose a few pounds? I don't think so.

I used to very carefully hedge round every working I put together with lots of little failsafes and codicils and whatnot, because I was convinced that if I didn't either a) everything would go Monkey's Paw on me, or b) I would accidently start casting black magic. ("My will is to win this writing competition! Uh... but only if my entry is really good, and three isn't someone who needs the prize money more, like a single mum or someone...")

Eventually I weened myself off the habit, but even when I got into t3h Kaoz Majikz I still used to include a little no-harm doodle in all my sigils. Believe me, you do not need that crap. All it does is dilute your workings.

Getting a regular practice together (as Celane suggests) will help you get more of a 'feel' for what's going on. Getting into very direct, basic contact with your magic as per GL's post--the real filthy witch stuff--is also good, tho' it's not everyone's cup of tea. The important thing is learning to take your brain off the hook and let the deep mind do the work.
 
 
eye landed
16:40 / 28.04.06
Yeah, sometimes you'll get a slightly shit result, sometimes it's like the Universe decides to take you down a peg or two, but magic is not out to get you.

the universe is usually reasonably kind to me, but ive had bad results when i involve other people. i imagine this is something like where the 'harm none' principle comes from, and im more careful now. ive never tried to curse anyone though.

thanks for the occult secrets, g.l.!

(random aside: when i checked the preview, my periferal vision read 'g.l.!' as '911'.)

my idea on primal vs legal is that you (the quotidian person who is 'not a magician') doesnt really know what you want. so if you get exactly what you think you want, it ends up sucking pretty bad. for example, i once did a love spell in high school. im pretty sure it worked, but didnt get me over my shyness so it didnt do me any good. if id done something more instinctual, i might have realized it was just myself holding me back all along. and isnt that the profoundly mundane purpose of magic, anyway?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:48 / 28.04.06
the universe is usually reasonably kind to me, but ive had bad results when i involve other people.

Same here, although when I say 'people' my definition is a lot broader than most. When you bring other personalities into the mix, with their own drives, desires, agendas and rules, things get more complicated. But that's another story.
 
 
Sekhmet
17:32 / 28.04.06
doesn't really know what you want. so if you get exactly what you think you want, it ends up sucking pretty bad...

Now that's an interesting point. The times that I've ended up having traumatic results with magic is when I thought I knew what I wanted, but it turned out not to be in my (or anyone else's) best interests in the end. The magic worked perfectly, it didn't backfire, it didn't fuck with my intentions or wording, it just gave me exactly what I wanted.

I guess the only way to deal with that is self-awareness, a clear head and a willingness to accept the consequences.
 
 
Flegetanis
18:31 / 28.04.06
I'm on board with several answers above, particularly those of Gypsy Lantern & Darke Lorde. I'm particularly of a mind that chaos magic is only particularly useful once one has had some experience with more structured ritual forms... Considering your "paranoid" attention to detail, I'd recommend that you give it a try! ;-)

Meanwhile, to further simplify things, I'd also recommend using tarot cards on an altar; picking those that clearly represent the result you want, and light a candle &/or incense that you associatwe with the planetary force you associate with your operation. Planetary magic is an excellent "step up" in magical work; it's simple enough to use casually, yet particular enough to specify - and modify - definite energies. Combined with the tarot imagery and a simple circle casting (Wiccan, LBRP or a variant), you've really got all you need to get going.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:58 / 28.04.06
The times that I've ended up having traumatic results with magic is when I thought I knew what I wanted, but it turned out not to be in my (or anyone else's) best interests in the end. The magic worked perfectly, it didn't backfire, it didn't fuck with my intentions or wording, it just gave me exactly what I wanted.

Same here. I won't go into any details, as most of the stories I have about this are pretty embarrassing, but I've learned a thing or two about telling the difference between what I want and what I need.

I guess the only way to deal with that is self-awareness, a clear head and a willingness to accept the consequences.

Yes, and for me these all came along naturally the more I practiced. Also, pre-working divinations have proved to be a valuable step in avoiding potential pitfalls.
 
 
Unconditional Love
01:11 / 29.04.06
Most of my traumas have been helpful, even the ones that killed me. But nothing needs to go that far. mistakes can be blessings with hind sight, and a very fast learning curve.

I tend to think and feel that i am here to make mistakes and attempt to resolve them, the idea of a perfect magical structure sounds lifeless, and lacking any kind of reasonable or unreasonable chaos.

A little wildness in life actually gives it some life, too many rules and restrictions will create a kind of ordered stupour, you may need some rules and you may not want all out chaos, but you need just enough to give the whole operation a spine tingling undulating buzz, like you just did something very wrong or right, depending on your view point.
 
 
Cat Chant
11:31 / 29.04.06
folks who "got what they wished for, but with bad repurcussions.

I haven't been at it for as long as our Darque Lorde MC, but I'd be inclined to trust her on how rare the 'hit by a car' outcome is. Actually, everyone who's posted on this thread will have much more experience than me and you should just listen to them - I'm only adding my twopennorth because I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I think those 'hit-by-a-car' type stories shouldn't really be taken as dire, paralysing warnings, but just as a heads-up that sometimes things go wrong. But that's not realy specific to magic. In all areas of life you sometimes get what you wish for, but not in the way you wish, or with bad consequences - and then you just go ahead and deal with the consequences.

The reason I've been thinking about this is that I did a working last week which was really scary, because I knew there were potentially quite bad consequences to getting it wrong (due to the way I'd set it up). But that just seems to me to be the way life is: you do something you need to do, and if that makes something else go wrong, well then you do what you need to do about that. And like people have said, making mistakes is how you learn.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:31 / 29.04.06
Yes, it's worth noting that magic does have risks attached and things can Go Horribly Wrong. They just don't go monkey's-paw horribly wrong.
 
 
Flegetanis
14:28 / 29.04.06
After well over 30 years of practice, the worst I've gotten were some seriously unpleasant surprises -- mostly dealing with personal finances and relationships. These surprises were all purely emotional responses to sudden changes and perceived "threats" to feelings of security; either financial or romantic. {These are broad generalizations; my operation were not merely for money or love -- these are just my most sensitive areas for feeling threatened, and the form my anxieties take when things don't go "accoding to plan".)

However, in just the slightly longer term (i.e., beyond the immediate visceral response), I found a new sense of security in the knowledge that what I was doing worked. The real longer term always showed me one of two things: either the benefit of accomplishing something that truly worked to improve my conditions, or an important lesson in how I viewed and desired things and which taught me to adjust those views to a more practically serving model.
 
 
Queer Pirate
21:17 / 29.04.06
Well, first post on the Temple...

I'm not very experienced, even though I'm now a bit past the armchair magician stage, but there's a realization that I made very recently that seems related with the discussion at hand.

I was never too concerned with avoiding loopholes, since everything I read about chaos magic advised against such a "legal" attitude. However, I've realized that another pitfall in formulating a statement of intent seems to be to hold back stuff. A good example is the two recent sigils I made regarding my relationship with the guy I'm currently in love with. Out of a fear of disappointment, I made statements of intent both along the lines of "willing things to work out with him" and "willing to have an extraordinary relationship with him". But the truth of the matter is that I'd like him to be my boyfriend, yet I held back on both of those sigils, never stating that desire directly, probably out of a fear that things would fail. Needless to say, those two sigils don't seem to be doing shit right now.

On a related side note, I'm reading Condensed Chaos right now and the part on love/getting laid magic was rather thought-provoking, proposing the idea that it might be better to ask for "the lover you need" rather than "the lover you want". Now I don't quite know what to do about this, as this comment made me realize that the object of my current infatuation might not be what I need right now, but at the same time, I can't help but think that asking for "what you need" falls along the lines of being too vague of a statement of intent, which could cause the magic not to work or to yield results that will be hard to evaluate. I guess I should do some soul-searching to figure out what I really need and be very specific when I make a sigil for it.

There's also something I'd like to have people's insight on... When a spell fails to work for you people, do you find that it's more because of the approach you tried for casting the spell or because the intent you focused on wasn't matching with your true deep-self will? I'm asking this because I'm wondering if I should work more on trying different approaches to get better results or on getting a better grasp of what my true will is (although I know for sure that the latter never hurts!).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:34 / 29.04.06
Ahhh, love spells. You may want to put on a hat, Queer Pirate, and get behind something solid--the casting of love-spells is regarded as something of an ethical minefield in these parts. This thread had some interesting discussion on the topic.

What it comes down to is this: a successful spell to make a specific person fall in love with you is arguably a violation of that person's free will. You're not winning love, you're kind of inflicting it. I think you know that really, and that's why you've fought shy of specifying "I want this man to be my boyfriend," even though that's what you really want. Far better to invite love into your life in a more general way. Asking for the lover you need is likely to have a much more positive outcome for all concerned.

When a spell fails to work for you people, do you find that it's more because of the approach you tried for casting the spell or because the intent you focused on wasn't matching with your true deep-self will?

For me it's a bit of both. If I'm not 100% on board with my intent, my spellcasting tends to be shabby. I skimp on the prep, I don't take enough time over it, I start to do the hedging-and-fudging thing I mentioned up thread. (My biggest weak spot is money spells; I can do them for other people okay, but I never seem to get them to work for me.)
 
 
Queer Pirate
15:29 / 30.04.06
Ahhh, love spells. You may want to put on a hat, Queer Pirate, and get behind something solid--the casting of love-spells is regarded as something of an ethical minefield in these parts. This thread had some interesting discussion on the topic.

I'll definitely check the thread when I have some spare time, it should be interesting. For the record, I just want to clarify that it was never my intention to make a spell that would make him fall in love with me. We're already more than friends to each other, it's just one of those "this is a fucked up time in my life and I can't be in a relationship right now" things on his side of the relationship. I think it would be wrong to try to make someone fall in love with me and I highly doubt it would work anyway - I just don't see any possible pathways.

What it comes down to is this: a successful spell to make a specific person fall in love with you is arguably a violation of that person's free will. You're not winning love, you're kind of inflicting it. I think you know that really, and that's why you've fought shy of specifying "I want this man to be my boyfriend," even though that's what you really want. Far better to invite love into your life in a more general way. Asking for the lover you need is likely to have a much more positive outcome for all concerned.

Now that you mention it, I do think the issue of respect for his free will did play a part in that. The original sigil was improvised and cast in the middle of a rave where I had been dancing for a couple of hours straight; at the time, it felt more like a blessing of something that seemed to be well underway (although I did have my own worries). However, merely an hour later, he came to me and said the whole "I'm not ready for a relationship" thing. I don't know if I should call that a backfire or something... ^_^

However, the second time around, I felt even shyer in my own statement of intent.

I should definitely take up on the whole "do a tarot drawing" thing before I make spells. Tarot usually gives me good insight, although it is not always pleasant.

Thanks for the reply!
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
18:43 / 30.04.06
See, for me getting your intent sorted out and triple-checked is a big chunk of the magic. Deciding what you need and are going to commit your energy on all planes to achieving. You have to get way past frivolities and surfaces and dig down to the hard coding—i.e., what you want out of life.

I recommend sitting with your intents over a couple days, looking at them from all angles, visualizing how they would actually play out in best and worst case scenarios. Don't get paranoid about bad things happening as a result of your workings, but be smart and discerning about where you're going to put your energy. When you think you've got it down, use the I Ching or another divination system to doublecheck it; ask the oracle how your life will change if you do the magic. If you get a bum answer, take its cues on how to change your approach, and go back to the drawing board.

That alone will be more than half of the battle.
 
 
Lord Switch
19:46 / 30.04.06
Its as simple as this.

ne of the most important things to a human is survival. The basic needs. No mater how shit the wording or symbolism of a ritual, you are always getting out of it what YOU want. Your mind/higher self/god etc is not going let you kill yourself or give yourself cancer or anything as silly as that.

In magick, more than in anything it is the intention that matters.
 
 
yemeth
22:39 / 30.04.06
In my experience, the worst problem I have found is that you can actually get what you want. If it is something which is getting you deeper inside any complex/problem/situation you should solve in other ways, that is bad business. That makes a nice excuse to know yourself.

As well, what I've found useful is to question myself as deep as possible; if I'm invoking a certain god/character/whatever or making a pact, whatever, which ideas do I have about such entity below the surface? They seem to affect things in unpredictable ways,.. specially when such ways have not been analyzed before through some self-questioning.

The only problem (sometimes quite serious) related to this paranoia I've found in magick has been saying several times something like "damn it worked too well again".
 
 
Flegetanis
05:44 / 01.05.06
The key split seems to be what one wants and what one needs; Desire & and Necessity. Being human, I do see loving companionship as a need, not a mere desire. However, imposing specific expectations on a love (or any other) spell may well undermine the power of Need (as in the rune NYD) with relatively accidental desires.

Need is a much more powerful magical force than mere desire. "Nature abhors a vacuum", and Need/Nyd is a type of vacuum. Desire does not have the same level of Root force as does Need, thus the results are as mutable as desire itself.

Other than that, I'm not too concerned about "inflicting" my will on another. I don't like doing it, but not for the shallow moral palliations that seem so popular in contemporary magical literature. I just don't like to almost casually entwine my will with another's to protect myself.
 
 
Seth
11:11 / 01.05.06
I just don't like to almost casually entwine my will with another's to protect myself.

Why not?
 
 
Anthony
12:26 / 01.05.06
i find it beneficial to work to help people to put your talents to good use.
 
 
Anthony
12:28 / 01.05.06
a lot of stuff does involve getting rid of LHP/RHP dichotomies. to make an omlette one has to break eggs
 
 
Anthony
12:28 / 01.05.06
research before doing stuff is also a good idea. i guess people are finding themselves having done the mass of choronzon...
 
 
Anthony
12:35 / 01.05.06
stick to your guns. don't sell out, don't change unless there's something you want to change. ride it out. use all your skills of self-protection. don't be afraid to be ruthless in going after what you want.
 
 
Anthony
12:36 / 01.05.06
or blow it. the choice is with each of us.
 
 
Anthony
12:41 / 01.05.06
i'm still about 10% paranoid after recent and unforseen "stuff"... i've just ridden with it, i was thrown back on my most basic survival instincts and i just survived. i did become something quite terrible in the process of doing that but what the hell. after survival we can learn to thrive, then we stabilise the current and... things get better and so on. listen to the teardrop explodes Kilimanjaro or something, full of sage words for beginners having a "whoops! apocalypse" moment
 
 
Feverfew
20:24 / 01.05.06
I'll be impressed if that's a reference to the late eighties "Whoops! Apocalypse" film, soundtrack by John Otway, which had the impressive "Rik Mayall as SAS assault leader" sequence wherein twenty SAS soldiers take on forty waxwork dummies and only lose eleven men IIRC.

In terms of learning magic and overcoming magical paranoia, I have to confess that my experiences with magic have been unfortunate. I got into a few things before I understood a lot of the repercussions (ominous, much?) and I have a feeling they played a part in a two-year period in which my life took a distinct left turn, from which I have since nominally recovered, but still rue.

The only advice I can recommend is an almost business-like model; if something works, keep doing it, until you feel so practiced that you're ready to try something else. If it doesn't work, try to reason why without breaking your brain, and either change something and try again or walk away briskly.

Now, my leanings towards magic are in the form, more or less, of a quiet herbalism, in that I'm the one at the back, with the pots, making things that smell nice or that people can believe in...
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
22:11 / 01.05.06

Holy God, John Otway is the shit. A godlike saint... who else could pen "Cor Baby That's Really Free" and "Headbutts"... evidentally he's going on world tour in 2006, I'm so there...
 
 
Anthony
06:20 / 02.05.06
thanks guys, the best way however to overcome magickal paranoia is to override it with will power and sustained action - check out some castaneda links - when you KNOW that you're doing the right thing. aware however always of the repercussions. don't end up in a nut house
 
 
Anthony
06:26 / 02.05.06
and if you do - BEHAVE YOURSELF RAOTFL
 
 
Anthony
07:08 / 02.05.06
i used to be in a band called Speedpussy (yeah crap name) and there are some more of my demented ravings around on the web at the time of the beast bay. always ahead of my time. marilyn manson - pah. i would have been there earlier if it wasn't for local yokals letting me down.
 
 
Anthony
07:22 / 02.05.06
i also recently got banned off the Haxed Forums in a silly and pointless attempt to communicate intelligently with the local pricks.
 
 
Anthony
07:27 / 02.05.06
which i forgive as ultimately it has only helped and increased my reputation in this town... anyway i digress, smack my own wrist for spamming....
 
 
Anthony
07:39 / 02.05.06
anyhoo (don't say anyhoo) - having just recently been the victim of homosexual panic and satanic panic for absolutely no just reason, i agree with myself what i said on the other thread about psychiatry having the right to make homophobia and racism etc mental illnesses. it's progressive, it's changing with the times. that's what counts. otherwise go pick up yr redundancy payment.
 
  

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