BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Are we doomed?

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
Quantum
14:15 / 19.04.06
What part of the puzzle could benefit from being looked at from a magician's perspective?
The psychological aspects and hidden causes of our current plight. Feeding the world's hungry and providing medicine etc. can be left to charities and aid organisations, I think magic is going to be more useful in making people feel included and participants in the way the world is changing. (jest)And identifying and destroying the evil kapitalist demons that plague our world leaders forcing them to make mad blind idiot decisions, devising an anti-Azathoth working to broadcast on the BBC (/jest)

What is the work that needs doing?
Getting involved, getting others involved, *undoing* what's been done to us. Throwing light into the dark cramped corners of the fearful and lonely's worldview, promoting empathy and kindness, making a happyclappyhippy future believable, not succumbing to cynicism and hostility despite daily temptation, generally behaving more like Jesus/the Dalai Lama/Siddartha and less like capitalist guntoting monkeys on PCP.

What aspects of that work might someone involved with magic excel at where others might conceivably falter?
When the situation demands a strong will, clarity of purpose, faith in your beliefs and a toolkit of practices designed to deal with Heavy Shit, the magician will prosper where someone with less experience in the weird might falter. I'm thinking specifically of combatting destructive ways of thinking, handling different world views without conflict, generally setting a good example. As I say, the psychological/cultural/memetic warfare aspects are most open to a magician's intervention, changing the intangibles involved rather than the material. We should be changing attitudes and beliefs, hearts and minds as they say. The immateria is our battleground.
 
 
---
17:32 / 19.04.06
But how does that work? Where does it start? What other aspects of shaping the future fall under the remit of the magician? What part of the puzzle could benefit from being looked at from a magician's perspective? What is the work that needs doing? What aspects of that work might someone involved with magic excel at where others might conceivably falter?

Wow, that's a lot of questions! Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I know that you do a lot of work for others, and I'm wondering if you maybe need to do some work for yourself here with these problems? I get the feeling from reading your posts in this thread that you could maybe do with searching for some inspiration and guidance as to where you're going with your magic in the future. I know this might be off a bit, but maybe you've been concentrating on helping others so much that you've neglected to work on yourself a little. I'm sure you won't be stuck with this problem for long.

It must be hard to find time for yourself if you're doing so many workings for others, but if you maybe did a working or three for things like direction, focus, inspiration and guidance, you could possibly clear up all of your questions by finding out where you stand, and where you want to be heading.

One school of thought might have me abandoning the magic, art and writing altogether

It might seem like an insane amount of work at the moment, but maybe as you go on, your work could involve helping others whilst giving yourself more time to work on art and writing. Maybe that's why you're unsure about where your practise is heading, because working for others is what you're focusing on a lot, and not the art and writing as much? Maybe inspiring and teaching others is the thing that you could be progressing towards, aswell as helping them with a lot of the work that you do at the moment. There's a decent bit of guesswork here, but worth it if it helps at all.
 
 
--
20:17 / 19.04.06
Actually, this thread reminds me of the game "Deus Ex", which I've played for the first time recently. The game has three endings that you can choose, each of which determines the future of the human race. Will you become a benevolent dictator/God? Will you establish a new government with the Illuminati? Or will you destroy the technology that holds the world's governments in place and plunge the world into a new dark age?

Frankly, I find the third ending appalling, and the idea of the human race sliding into some new kind of medieval age horrifies me to the core of my being. Perhaps it's because I've always had a fascination with technology. I love computers, I love the internet, love electronics, love electricity in general. My favorite music is electronic based... ditto for the music I create on my own time. The idea of losing all that technology and reversing back to something else is an idea I have no favor towards. Granted, technology has caused a lot of problems, but I think it can equally solve as many problems. It just has to be put to the proper use.

My ideal future? A world in which humans are no longer dependent on food or medicine, mass religion and political parties and our own genetic structures. Where one could change their shape, their very identity, on a daily basis, like changing clothes... the end of identity. If art is supposed to transcend, why not the human race? I find it an outrage that I'm forced to inhabit this white male body... This does not mean I want to be a woman, it means I'd like to have more options then just what my DNA handed me. I have no idea how such a future would ever come about, however. The closest I have to a practical idea in this area is becoming a multi-million dollar writer and use some of that to fund my very own private research laboratory, but I don't forsee that happening in the future. For the moment, until I come across a better solution to achieving my plans, I've created the NTS with the intention of anticipating the future before it happens, in the hope that somewhere in time someone, the right person/people, will put my ideas into actual use.
 
 
gravitybitch
04:29 / 20.04.06
Much food for thought - thank you, GL, for starting this. It's pulled together some different trains of thought, brought into focus where I want my practice to go.


This "big, sour tasting, fucked-up soup" has been in the kettle for a long time - magicians such as H. G. Wells (Time Machine) and Huxley contributed to the shape of it with their rather dim views on humanity. And Western culture is still overwhelmingly JudeoXtian; there's a whole lot of "Oh, shit, we really fucked up; we're going to get punished/have to do penance..." that's built in, easy to buy into. And some of the soup may well be biological - we have a hardwired fight-or-flight response, we are all stressed (personally, culturally, ecologically, spiritually, you name it); it makes a fair amount of sense that we imagine things-to-fight as a way of dealing with the stresses.

We've got models for hell, we don't have models for sustainable bliss. And bliss, by its nature, is transitory - entropy creeps in and something will always go wrong - that's just the the way of the world.


On the other hand, the cooperative model is a *very* successful way of being in a community (see Prisoner's Dilemma and artificial life). That's one thing to keep in mind... And there are resources for "positive spin" (one of my favorites is Rob Breszny's Beauty and Truth Lab, and another source of inspiration is yezida on livejournal - she talks a lot about doing the work, day in and day out).

The role of the magician? Trickster, in part - we need to be able to reframe the questions, present the options of Other and "Yes, and..."

(more later - still chewing on this!)
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:23 / 20.04.06
I get the feeling from reading your posts in this thread that you could maybe do with searching for some inspiration and guidance as to where you're going with your magic in the future.

To be honest, right now, I've never been more focused, inspired and directed in my magic and clear about the general direction in which I aim to take things. This is just about brain storming ideas and testing waters, which is one of the things barbelith can be a really good platform for. But thanks for your concern.

it means I'd like to have more options then just what my DNA handed me

Do you fully understand the nature of your own DNA? Have you attained total conscious understanding and control of the nature and powers of your own being? Have you exhausted every possibility presented to you by the genetic material you were born with? If the answer to those questions is no, then why not get started with that process? It seems a more constructive approach than waiting around for an unlikely science fiction scenario where you can turn into a Shoggoth and thereby escape the responsibilities of the human body you were incarnated in.
 
 
Quantum
09:42 / 20.04.06
we don't have models for sustainable bliss
Yes, yes we do. BTW I think you'll like Iain Banks' utopian Culture novels.

So I was having this conversation last night ('What can we do?') and the other people initially said you can only vote, protest or Blow Shit Up (tm). After only five minutes we'd come up with three more peaceful direct actions we could take, they'd decided to go on a permaculture course in Gloucestershire in the Autumn (run by Starhawk) and their demeanour changed from hopelessly pessimistic to hopefully optimistic. Five minutes of talking. That's what I mean by the best efforts being to affect people's hearts and minds.

Here's an example- I want to set up a self-replicating viral marketing petition that doesn't spam people, which I think I will call 'Petition of the Week E-Ring' or something equally inspired (suggestions welcome). I need some volunteers to simply write one email a week, on a hot topic, to somebody who can make a difference. Say this week it's emails and letters to Nestle complaining about their actions in Nigeria, next week we complain about Brazilian deforestation for soy etc. we take turns administering.
So pretty quickly we would have a list of volunteers ready to vocally protest at the drop of a hat. They feel more involved, if there's any issue they care deeply for they can suggest it as next week's issue, I could bow out almost straight away and it would continue under it's own steam, as people tell each other about it the virtuous circle grows, this structure can spread and self-replicate without explicit organisation or knowing of other ring's existence, like a benevolent terrorist cell structure*. If you don't think emails will make a difference consider this- Nestle cancelled six million dollars of debt to Ethiopia because of consumer complaint. They only get away with shit because they think we aren't looking.


That's one idea, we can have plenty more, all we have to do is get out of the rut of hopeless impotence some people have trapped themselves in and get active. Start a ring! Have an idea! Tell us about it! Take the power back! Use more exclamations this shit is important!

*a Joyist cell structure you might say. Someone told me to copyright the idea, and I had to point out I WANT PEOPLE TO STEAL THE IDEA, that's the point!
 
 
Quantum
10:17 / 20.04.06
One school of thought might have me abandoning the magic, art and writing altogether and training myself up in whatever disciplines might be required for contributing towards the invention of a cheap, sustainable source of energy, or something like that.

Another school of thought (Quantum Comprehensive School, think of a five-dimensional Grange Hill on psychedelics with runes) might have you using art, writing and magic to inspire engineers to look for that cold fusion. There are already people who are talented highly trained experts who want to help, they just need connecting and motivating.

Then you could use those same skills to motivate someone else with a different area of expertise.
Then another.
So the writing/magic/art is MORE EFFECTIVE than 'hard' solutions, it's meta-, your role and mine (and yours dear reader) is to INSPIRE PEOPLE and what could be better than Art to do that? We should be catalysts, enablers, empowerers, placentas* and placebos to provoke the populous into protest.

*try to remember!
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:53 / 20.04.06
*try to remember!

Does this mean Tom Cruise is going to try and eat barbelith?
 
 
Quantum
12:13 / 20.04.06
Let him try... pan fry me with shallotts mo'fo, I'll bust a cap in your short scientologist ass!
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
12:49 / 20.04.06
The think i don't understand is that is Tom Cruise, and not Katie Holmes, the one who's gonna to eat placente (it seems that placenta is eated by many mammarian females and it would be a womb's contractor)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:23 / 20.04.06
I think you'll like Iain Banks' utopian Culture novels.

Good point. Whenever I find myself in a state of bleakitude and unable to picture a future where we're not (at best) eating giant cockroaches and communicating in grunts, I reflect upon the Culture. I'd recommend that others who cannot win free of the bleak pick up a Culture book soonest.
 
 
Quantum
14:27 / 20.04.06
Especially The Player Of Games which nicely offsets the Culture against a satire of our own (but with three sexes which I found a little like Leguin's 'left hand of darkness').
I want Azad madskillz.

I forgot to mention volunteering, barter and freecycle and such, things which don't involve money but help enormously. The less important we can make money the better IMO, divorcing it from value a little.
 
 
Bruno
08:44 / 21.04.06
Good question but tough.
Ecologically we are in the middle of disaster; still even if the oil runs out, the system will adapt, although there will probably be some crises as geopolitical balance shifts. I try to observe how and what I consume in order to be more ecological, I leave the city and have a relationship with some wild areas, I keep them clean if there is trash there. Any work which reduces alienation from the body and from nature is probably 100% necessary. Getting to know what I am putting into my body. I try to learn to live simply and not to avoid hardships.

In the city the biggest problem I think is the semantic warfare we are all under. And it seems to be getting worse, this bubble of security and control, the gigantic channeling of libido into images. A lot of people are miserable and depressed...a lot of what looks like happiness doesnt convince me as to its honesty. Build a critical faculty and sharpen it often. Sharpen it with others. Build strong defenses to filter information through.

Creating new myths, generating new cultures based around solidarity, respect, a sense of community, less ego. For example, spreading the archetype of the self-empowered magician into collective consciousness. Very vague suggestion I know. For me it takes the form of music more than anything else, dance and lyrics are important, forming alternative ways of thinking and pride in one's own voice. I think it's important that this happens outside normal channels, to keep it distanced from profit.

Learn to communicate, I'm still struggling with that one.

Knowing where you live, its psychogeography and history, getting to know the people there, getting a feel for the place, working rituals that feel right for that area. Reclaiming public space.

Obviously do what you can do to help people around you but that's too vague too. It's easy to forget the people closest to us and how we affect them.
 
 
---
17:18 / 21.04.06
To be honest, right now, I've never been more focused, inspired and directed in my magic and clear about the general direction in which I aim to take things. This is just about brain storming ideas and testing waters, which is one of the things barbelith can be a really good platform for. But thanks for your concern.

Ah ok, that's great to know. I thought you might have been at one of those unsure stages that sometimes arrive and was wondering what to do next. With the question of us being doomed or not, I'm really not too sure which way things will go with there being so many factors involved. As for a collapse when we run out of oil, I think we'll manage to evade that by using alternate energy sources, but the oil giants will probably carry on trying to make money off the very last of the oil for as long as possible, and then we might start seeing more ways of running things becoming available. Hopefully they'll start becoming more widely available before chaos hits aswell. Will post back if I have any better developed ideas in this area anyway.
 
 
iamus
23:17 / 21.04.06
Then you could use those same skills to motivate someone else with a different area of expertise.
Then another.
So the writing/magic/art is MORE EFFECTIVE than 'hard' solutions, it's meta-, your role and mine (and yours dear reader) is to INSPIRE PEOPLE and what could be better than Art to do that?



That's the way I see it. To me, the most important thing at this point and the one thing I am focused on cultivating and working with is creativity, creativity, creativity. In all its forms. That's always how I've seen magic at the root, the application of a creative mind to incite change.

I think the New Medievalâ„¢ is such a prevalent attitude because it's one the easiest ways to spin out our future, looking from where we are now. It speaks to us at a base level, it's comfortably dark and allows us to put the course of our future out of our own hands. It's childish because, for whatever part we have played, it almost absolves us of ultimate responsibility. We misbehaved and now Mother is coming back to punish us.

If there's one thing I find it's most useful to constantly remind yourself, it's that every situation has the inherent ability to turn out an infinite number of resolutions. The only barrier to realisation is the application of creativity and hard work to exactly the right pressure points.

Our defeatist mindset, like any properly functioning glamour, becomes a self-sustaining feedback loop. The idea becomes real by convincing you it always was in the first place. the more you see it pop up because of this, the greater its ability to replicate itself. Money has the very real ability to topple nations or build physics-breaking machines precisely and only because we believe that it does, blah, blah, blah.

Creativity is the one wild card we carry with us always. Its function is in shaking up what's fed into it, recontextualising it and applying it in new forms. It's the most potent tool (and possibly even the only real one) that we have for getting the train off the tracks and driving in a different direction.

There's billions of us, and we're all in this together. I should say that again. There's Billions of us, and each of us does things differently. All us are connected to the source. Every one of us has a brain capable of turning the world if we're so inclined. The only thing we maybe lack is the willingness to look at what we each have to offer and apply it in ways that we haven't thought of yet. Some of us are healers, some of us are technicians, some of us are leaders and some are followers. All of these professions are vital, all are in need of growth in their scope and ability.

The physical world we live in flows from ideas, and the only thing you can replace and idea with is yet another idea. Art and creativity are the first port of call from their world to the physical one. They are the raw condensations, the transmission media.

The role of the magician is almost a bit of a nebulous concept, because I'm not sure there is really the one defining characteristic that you can use to point to somebody and say "that person is a magician". There are many different types of magician. There are magical doctors, magical technicians, leaders, followers etc. Each has to apply their skills to the situation in the ways they are best able to imagine.

If there is a "course of action" we should be following I'm inclined to think that, as is often the case, it's the simplest answer. A twofold process we've being practicing since the dawn of shamanism. Fostering communities where differently-talented people can see what they have to offer one another, where information can take root and flourish into tangible things through their efforts. And then showing them what happens when they open the door to potentialities.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:54 / 22.04.06
That was a fantastic post!
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:33 / 22.04.06
That was a fantastic post, it raises a question in me, where do the magical destroyers fit in, those whose purpose is often cast into a negative rather than a positive, because the forces they weild are about taking apart rather than putting together, although a new organisation of life is often an end result of destruction.

It kinda bugs me because the premise of most of my work is based on destruction and i enjoy it and am often engaged with it at both a social and personal level. I can see a positive use for destruction, death, decay etc etc, but many people are incapable of doing so, its percieved as being the enemy rather than the partner of life or evolution, but without nessecary destruction i am of the opinion that there will always be an imbalance in the ecology of this planet, as well as within the human species.

Another problem i see is the representation that destruction is often presented as, a dark force, a black evil, a sense of gloom, doom and dread, demonic and satanic. I think this is a direct product of medieval type thinking, an image very easy to buy into, but actually reinforcing a sharp dualistic conflict between what is seen as light and what is seen as darkness.

When will it be acknowledged that both life and death, love and fear are nessecary counterpoints in this playground. There is a tendency to only respect what is concieved of as being light by some spiritual practitioners.
 
 
---
13:36 / 23.04.06
Agreed, iamus that post was really well written. You seemed to have captured a lot of the essence of magic and fitted it in so well with the topic at the same time. Thanks for the inspiring words.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
19:15 / 23.04.06
My little contribution: i think magician/shaman role, in the context of XXI century is to try to learn about magic forces in the earth/other dimensions to bring them to technology.

And try to bring magic to scientific community, but not playing a "magician" role. I think the most important think is create some kind of "Trojan Horse" communities, but not explicit ones; I think we must approach magic to scientific community, and i'm thinking on universities, in a silent way. Prejudices play a capital role in our societies.

Acting in a way we attract people with our behavior, rather than speaking about magic. Some kind of game in wich people wants to be involved. Talk with people is the most importat think. Spread "magical" cliffhangers. I think we must not be explicit. We must attract the atention of people in a silent way.

And to focus. Focus not in an utopian society, but in the things we're making to get on it.

Well, maybe everything I typed is too obvious, isn't it?
 
 
Quantum
17:35 / 24.04.06
For me it takes the form of music more than anything else, dance and lyrics are important iamus

Hear hear! This example is an excerpt from 'Oxygen' by Willy Mason (which has a great tune too)-

'Proud of a life where
to give means more than to take,
I want to live beyond the modern mentality
where paper is all you're really taught to create...

...I know the future looks dark,
But it's there that the kids of today
Must carry the light'


I thought it was apt for this thread. If you're reading this and you're not feeling motivated, take a moment to consider what Bobossino might have to say to you in thirty years time. Will he thank you or kill you for your elk skins?
 
 
foolish fat finger
23:22 / 27.04.06
is 'modern civilisation' doomed? yes. are 'we' doomed? no. from a Christian perspective (I am not a Christian, but I am speaking from a Christian perspective), we are nearing the 'end times'. it is a time of great disturbance, such as the world has never seen, nor will see again. will humanity survive? yes, but in a greatly altered form. and it does need to be that way. it is comparable to the time of Noah and the great flood.
within 20 years, civilisation as we know it will collapse. whether by lack of oil, temperature/weather disturbance, social unrest, or all... the Biblical prophets were stoned to death if their prophecies were incorrect. I state on my life, this is what I have seen. may GOD strike me down if I speak one word of a lie.
'doom' for me is an absolute term. there are no absolutes. humanity is not doomed, but it is unsustainable in its present form. I do not need to furnish examples, they are there to be seen.
what will emerge will be positive.

peace be with you.
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply