Indiana Jones

11:31 / 07.04.06

There was a bit of Indy discussion in a recent thread and it’s something that comes up a lot so I think it deserves its own space.

Wikipedia has the basic stats.

Indiana Jones

Raiders of the Lost Ark

Temple of Doom

The Last Crusade

Number Four in pre-production

So, what do you think of them? Do they still hold up after all these years? Does everyone agree that Temple of Doom is the weakest? Is an Indy film without nazis not an Indy film? Do you hold out any hope for the new one?

12:19 / 07.04.06

The talk on indie 4 certainly seems to be hotting up- presumably because Lucas has finished with Star Wars he's dedicating more time to it. Although i'm not holding my breath- i've been hearing strong rumours about Indy 4 for about 6-7 years now.

I saw an interview with Harrison Ford who said that his aging would be explained by real time age gaps between the last film and the current film- throwing us into the 50's I guess? I'm not bothered about seeing Nazi's, Temple of Doom doesn't have 'em.

Anybody care to speculate on the focus for this one? Cold War- Indy vs Commies? South East Asia- Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia? India and the fall of the british empire? lots of good world stories around then that don't need Nazis?

sleazenation

13:07 / 07.04.06

While I don't think Indie is tied to the Nazi's necessarily I don't think he has a place in a post-atomic world... America actually being a pre-eminent world power is not something that Indie does, I ghuess the only way round it would be Indie becoming increasinlg disillusioned as he ages...

_Boboss

13:12 / 07.04.06

you could easily do a south american thing - finding a maya/aztec/inca doomsday weapon before the boys from brazil do.

13:17 / 07.04.06

While it is a truth universally acknowledged that any film without Nazis must be in want of them, part of the reason they work well is that by now they are almost outside of time, a kind of universal, almost fictional evil that works well in this kind of movie. Having Indy go after communists would just make him seem like a stooge of cold war America that I think would rob the film of some of its universality. To avoid that, maybe the new film will be along the lines of the Temple of Doom, totally removed from real world events, and based mainly on some fictional villain. Or have him chasing an object through nineteen fifties Europe and/or Asia while avoiding the agents of some sort of Spectre-like group who don’t have specific links to any government or country. On that note, maybe they’ll set it in the sixties and he can run into James Bond ...

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

13:28 / 07.04.06

yup the commie thing could be horrible- unless played well indy vs Macarthy era FBI establishment could be more fun though (and more like Ford's own politics as i understand)

I also like the idea of South America- a gold mine of stuff there- a bit like Mysterious cities of Gold but better.

13:47 / 07.04.06

I saw an interview with Harrison Ford who said that his aging would be explained by real time age gaps between the last film and the current film- throwing us into the 50's I guess? I'm not bothered about seeing Nazi's, Temple of Doom doesn't have 'em.

Bollox did I you bastard. I don't bloody age, i drink toddlers blood to stay young!

miss wonderstarr

13:53 / 07.04.06

Wouldn't it be interesting if Indiana Jones was on the "wrong side" from our contemporary perspective, ie. found himself in the position of a McCarthyite commie-hunter, or the kind of colonial explorer who looks like a bad guy to modern sensibilities?

I'd find that a lot more meaty than watching a grey-haired veteran doing a creaky Lara Croft into fantasy pyramids after some hoary Da Vinci Code-style mythical prize, with requisite gags about "I'm gettin' too old for this" every ten minutes.

13:59 / 07.04.06

South American jungles. Surviving Nazis, a la Hellboy, trying to use teh majicks to restore the Reich.

Indy has to fight Nazis. Temple of Doom suffered as a result.

14:02 / 07.04.06

miss w- that would indeed be interesting, and throw up some good questions and subtexts... but I'm not entirely convinced I want interesting questions and subtexts in my Indiana Jones movies. I want jumping over pits, feats of derring-do, possibly a bit of hanging off the back of trucks, and punching Nazis on the nose. I'm a stoat of simple pleasures when it comes to Indy.

14:03 / 07.04.06

STOAT SPEAKS STRONG TRUTH.

14:16 / 07.04.06

South American jungles. Surviving Nazis, a la Hellboy, trying to use teh majicks to restore the Reich.

I'm sold. Sadly my faith in Lucas coming up with something anywhere near as exciting went down the pan with Phantom Menace.

miss wonderstarr

14:17 / 07.04.06

OK, but I was also making the point that the Indiana Jones formula has been copied and recycled in quite a few other texts since the last film, so it's not really fresh anymore as it stands.

14:23 / 07.04.06

But the movies were always a throwback to the old adventure serials anyway. That's what made them so great.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

14:24 / 07.04.06

Worth noting that Lucas doesn't write the actual screenplays for the Indy movies so all is not lost. God, I'm setting myself up for a fall here aren't I?

fluid_state

14:43 / 07.04.06

Big time, Loomis. The last plot I'd heard bandied about for Indy 4 involved him and Marian (from Raiders) having to chase down their kid, who had gone off looking for his estranged father and wound up captured by some Nazi analogues. Fun for the whole fam damily. With Lucas and Spielberg getting more kid-sensitive in their blockbusters, I'd not have high hopes. Then again, my fave is still Temple of Doom, 'cause Indy's a total bastard in that one.

sleazenation

14:53 / 07.04.06

I think we also have to remember that Indiana Jones is not an orginal concept - he owes as much a debt to Alan Quartermain as he does to saturday serials...

Eloi Tsabaoth

15:14 / 07.04.06

Plus he was partly created due to frustration when Lucas and Spielberg were denied a crack at the Bond franchise. We so knowledgable.

15:17 / 07.04.06

OK, but I was also making the point that the Indiana Jones formula has been copied and recycled in quite a few other texts since the last film, so it's not really fresh anymore as it stands.

Who wants to see a 'fresh' take on pit jumping hat grapping whip whip whipperty treasure hunt mutton busting i loved that dog action?

Not me and i'm in it so ner.

15:32 / 07.04.06

I like Temple of Doom- maybe cos it was the first one i saw when i was about 10 or 11- i thought it was going to be rubbish (old fashioned Han Solo without lasers?) but it was actually rather marvelous. Who needs Nazi's when you've got MOLA RAM!

This Sunday

16:30 / 07.04.06

While I enjoy 'Raiders...' I find some of the beginning more than a tad racist. And I don't buy the feminist-promo angle some people have tried to place on it. Ravenwood isn't some dichotomous example of Spielbergian squeely-woman and Lucas' warrior princess... she's tied up or drunk. Nice bit with the "I'll buy you a cup of coffee" at the end, though.
'Temple of Doom' never did much for me. It's just kinda there, and you know our hero's got to make it through, 'cause it takes place before the last film.
'Last Crusade' kicks ass. Every time. Probably just as flawwed as the other two, but I don't see it as much.

Triplets

16:31 / 07.04.06

Indy needs to fight Nazis. Just like he fought a load in space that time with his big dog.

But he can get by without 'em. Off to Japan to find Grasscutter, then to the darkest Untamed West to hunt the Golden Guns of Jesse James. Rest up and pip pip! it's off to blightly to get Babbage's real difference engine out of the hands of the nefarious N.A.Z.I.

Chewbacca Jones' also been to Atlantis. On my PC.

Triplets

16:33 / 07.04.06

Melting Nazis in number four. How much is too much?

10:38 / 08.04.06

Not getting the Temple of doom hataz!11!

You've got soooo much classic indy in that movie - better imho than last crusade- you got the mining cart race, Poison and antidote battles in shanghai, chilled monkey brains, short rounds driving peddle blocks (i wanted them on my dads car!), bugs loads of bugs, escape from a plane in a dingey, voodoo dolls, Cutting the bridge!!11! need i say more?

matthew.

23:32 / 08.04.06

The bridge scene is great - for its time. Its special effects have not aged well, though.

The insect scene is terrific. It still gives me the jeebies. But since I've aged a little, not the heebies.

23:35 / 08.04.06

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love Temple of Doom. (My babysitter from when I was a kid's in it, ferfucksakes! And he's the first person to die!)

I just think it would have been better if he'd kicked a couple of Nazis in the cheggers.

(My babysitter from when I was a kid's in it, ferfucksakes! And he's the first person to die!)

Stoatie you don't just drop that one in casually and not give us more- who, what, why, when?

Mysterious Transfer Student

21:13 / 09.04.06

David "The Chinese Detective" Yip- he went to my dad's church in Liverpool, and babysat for me. And then proceeded to appear in a variety of films, most of which he got killed in.

21:58 / 09.04.06

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm reminded of comments made by Aeon Flux creator Peter Chung, referring to a scene he included in his series which spoofed the famous moment from Raiders when Indy, confronted by a sword-wielding behemoth, cockily pulls out his revolver and shoots the guy dead. The Aeon Flux scene ran much the same way, with Aeon gunning down a flamboyant swordsman - except that Aeon then turns to a bystander and kicks his ass for laughing at this outcome. Mr. Chung made it clear that he wrote this scene broadly as part of AF's general subversion of action-movie histrionics, but specifically to have a go at a character whom he regarded as a selfish, arrogant, unscrupulous jerk who travelled the world stealing people's sacred treasures. Which, and not to decry the Indy-love which rightly pervades this thread and this forum, is kind of true.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

22:16 / 09.04.06

Oh, but he only steals the world's treasures to stop them falling into the hands of the perfidious French.

Oh, hang on...

09:52 / 10.04.06

Oi Fat Lee, that's well out of order. You calling me a tea leaf? Don't make me open a can of the old nut kicker on ya!

I loved that dog.

The Return Of Rothkoid

11:39 / 10.04.06

I've heard rumours about Scarlett Johannsen being in the flick, as well as Ford wanting to do his own stunts. Eep.

Re: storylines: remember, there's a couple of Lucasfilm games featuring the character. They could easily be plundered: something like Indiana Jones And The Fate Of Atlantis would work really well. Wikipedia seems to indicate this, and it'd make sense, really. I do wonder how the Nazis would figure: I do feel that Indy films are crap without 'em. Mola Ram just wasn't the same.

Of course, this is all just me hoping that using an LFL game storyline will lead to the development of a Monkey Island game...

11:58 / 10.04.06

i got the opposite impression from wikipedia re: atlantis based movie- that games would provide the soure material were pure speculation put out by wishful fans- i'd feel a bit ripped off and worried too- as aren't pretty much all movies based of games shit?