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Films that you used to think were good when you were young and stupid but which, with the benefit of hindsight, really suck

 
  

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penitentvandal
08:29 / 05.04.06
Self-explanatory title there: films you once thought were great but which, you now realise, suck. And why. I'll start the ball rolling with...

Easy Rider

I can't believe I used to love this film. I know why: it was because me and my mates had just got into dope and hey, whaddaya know, people smoke dope in this film, it must be cool! But it isn't! It's one of the most smug films in the history of the cinema. The protagonists aren't existential pilgrims: they're idiots. 'Oh, look, those rednecks are looking funny at us and Jack Nicholson. Oh, I know what we'll do, we'll set up camp just down the road from the nasty rednecks. What? They're attacking us? Damn, who could have predicted that?' Except everyone watching the film, you pricks!

It's not just that, though, it's that the characters just sort of stumble through the film in this half-retarded trance state and never try to make any connection with society, or even try to improve it, instead concentrating on somehow 'finding themselves' in their pompous drug oddysey. They're like gap year students on bikes, basically. Even the Hell's Angels formed some kind of rudimentary social force. But we're invited to view these two cockheads as heroes and to laugh at the hippies on the commune where they hang out, because, y'know, they're not cool, they don't look like Peter Fonda in his leathers and they sing stupid songs instead of standing around looking enigmatic...On the other hand, though, they are at least trying to create some alternative society, rather than just selling some drugs and taking an awayday to New Orleans off the profits. Much is made of the fact that they've sown their crops in sand, but at least they've tried. And then, of course, you see, they drive Fonda and Hopper out because, like, the counterculture is just as bad as the man, dig? But of course they drive them out, what have they done except hang about and make sarky comments or just look cool while the hippies are doing all the hard work? You'll notice that neither of the protagonists thinks to go up to the hippies and say 'Look, sorry about this, but I can't help but notice you've sown your crops in sand, and that isn't going to work. Tell you what, I've got some cash on me at the moment, why don't I pop into town, get us some decent agricultural supplies, then we'll find some better land and sort out a proper system of growing this stuff?' But noooooooooo. That wouldn't be cool, would it? You wind up feeling sorry for any of the poor hippies if they've tried to ask Fonda for help. 'No, man, I'm sorry, can't help pull your plough, I have to stand here and look deep.' In fact, he wouldn't even say anything, would he? Just stand there and look at them, to make it look like there was something wrong with them...

It's just such a boatload of wank, really, when you think about it. The main thrust of the film only comes from the ending, where both characters get shot just for being different, and to be fair this is wrong, and good on the film-makers for daring to confront prejudice in their film in which there are no black characters and all the women are placed in subservient roles where their only job is to placate or cause trouble for the boyz. But really, if they'd survived and carried on with their pathetic, boring, soulless proto-Thatcherite existence, people would have came out of the cinema wishing the characters had been shot. Once you've had a think about how stupid and shallow the 'heroes' actually are, it's hard not to feel a bit of sympathy with those stupid rednecks in the truck.

So anyway, Easy Rider there, a film I once thought coolest of the cool but now cannot stand. What lumps of celluloid gold from your past have now turned to dross in the harsh light of now?
 
 
Loomis
09:12 / 05.04.06
You've got to hold it in your lungs longer VV.
 
 
Thorn Davis
09:52 / 05.04.06

I used to think that Parenthood was the business when I was about twelve. I've no idea how, in between gurgling with delight at bone crushing man-robots in Terminator and Robocop, this lightweight comedy managed to attract my attention. Nonetheless, I used to watch it all the time and found it really enthralling and touching, and it actually made me want to be the father figure of an extended family. At the age of twelve! That is some sick shit. Anyway. Obviously now I realise that it was a load of sickly sentimental old twaddle full of glutinous feel-good moments and a lovesong to suburban normality. Loving this film as a kid paves the way for loving Blue Velvet as a teenager.

Elsewhere, I also used to think Short Circuit was fantastic even though it's kind of obvious and stupid. Also, I found out yesterday that the daft Pakistani (I think) character was a white guy who browned up for the role. I can't decide whether that makes me like the film more, or actually a lot less.
 
 
Smoothly
10:04 / 05.04.06
I think you might be missing something, VV. Well, not missing it anymore maybe, but rather you’re slating a film because it isn’t about what you thought it was about when you were a dope-addled kid.
Or am *I* missing something? In which case:

Blade Runner

When I first saw this I thought it kicked ass the way Deckard offed all the evil robots with a big gun, and scored with the pretty lady. But I watched it again recently, and Deckard seems like a bit of a jobsworth; just doing what the fat cop tells him. Almost like he’s no better than a robot himself! And when he defeats the big boss at the end, it doesn’t feel like much of a victory – it’s almost like a bit of a downer!
What a hunk of shit.
 
 
matthew.
13:24 / 05.04.06
As in the thread summary, I dislike Shawshank Redemption and here are my reasons:
First of all, it's as unsubtle as a claw hammer to the face. Yeah, I get it: music is a form of rebellion. The bad guy shoots himself cause he was corrupt all along, and he didn't let Tim Robbins have another chance to argue his case because the actual murderer came through. Blah, fucking blah. It's a melting pot of prison cliches and stereotypes. The only thing interesting about the film is the bit where Andy does the taxes for everybody. That's funny.

Second of all, I'm pissed at the flick because everybody thinks it's the fucking greatest movie of all time. Empire Magazine rated it as the greatest flick ever. IMDB commonly lists it at 1, 2, and sometimes 3. Everybody I know IRL loves the flick to death and will watch it over and over again. ARGH! FUCK! IT'S NOWHERE NEAR THAT GOOD! It's a tidy little prison flick that openly apes other prison movies. But it's not the best prison movie by far.

Thirdly, Cool Hand Luke is a thousand times better as a prison movie about rebellion. The Great Escape is more awesome than Shawshank. Papillon is better at characters and desperation than Shawshank. For pure, unadulterated redemption goodness, look no further than the hamfisted but emotional American History X. Or Animal Factory. All of these are better than the sappy and plastic Shawshank.
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
14:25 / 05.04.06
He Got Game. When I saw it, I was at the height of my dual fascinations with basketball and Public Enemy, and thought the movie was absolute genius. Watched it a while later and thought it was shallow and silly, and stuck in the traditional Spike Lee zone where women can only be onscreen if they're either predatory hyperbitches or lounging around in lingerie.

As for Shawshank: my wife's taking a screenwriting class, and her prof brings up Shawshank every fucking week, she says, as the pinnacle of American film. Which gives her some doubts as to the quality of this particular class.
 
 
Lysander Stark
14:57 / 05.04.06
I am that rarest of creatures, a film lover (amateur, of course) who has still not seen Shawshank. Your comments make me feel an insy winsy bit vindicated, but I am sure I will not be able to resist for ever.

When I was a child, one film in particular filled my universe with anticipation when its trailers and publicity began to air. All of my friends were excited about the forthcoming ET, which frankly, to me, looked a little sappy. I mean, a cuddly yet ugly alien? Kids, no rayguns, rainbows... It just did not stoke my fire as a concept (I did actually love it when I was forced to see it in the end). In contrast, I was a True Believer, I knew what the Real Film of that moment was going to be. Nothing sappy about my choice... The Beastmaster. And I remember loving it. Violence, animals, nightmarish fantasy landscapes, warriors, you name it-- and it was scary!

So when I saw it in the shops a few years ago for a clearance price, well, I had to know. And I wish I had left my memories intact, rather than let them be vigorously defiled by the sad reality of a film that is horrificly bad in script, conception, acting, effects, and also-- it being a director's cut version-- in the occasional gratuitous flashes of breast that place the film firmly in the 'what category was this meant to be, and for what demographic and audience exactly?' box. It ticks no boxes at all, except the ones that hint at massive plagiarism. I suppose it is a fair reflection of my appreciation of the relative values of these films that I did not try to foster psychic links with animals in the wake of that film, whereas I did try to link up my Speak-and-Spell to household appliances in the (sadly vain) hope of communicating with my mothership...
 
 
The Natural Way
15:05 / 05.04.06
Hold on a minute, Weaving, Dekhart doesn't off the the big boss. I don't understand what yr talking about. The films intended to be a downer. I can understand why people might get a bit pissed off with bladerunner's annoying, portentous, po-faced tone, but it still looks and feels really pretty, and, fuck, it's the seminal cyberpunk film. Everything after it's all bloody black trenchcoats and urgh! fuck!
 
 
doglikesparky
15:05 / 05.04.06
Deckard seems like a bit of a jobsworth; just doing what the fat cop tells him. Almost like he’s no better than a robot himself!

I hope I'm not being a fool and missing subtle sarcasm here but was that not the idea, that Deckard is indeed a Robot? I am being a fool, aren't I?

For my money, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. What a load of old rubbish. When I was a nipper I loved it, I thought everything about it was aces but then I saw it again a year or so ago and couldn't believe how awful it was. Poor special effects, silly story, Kate Capshaw screaming all the way through, really really unfunny jokes. What a let down.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:19 / 05.04.06
Oh, Smoothly, I knew you shouldn't have picked Blade Runner. Although that's precisely what makes it a good choice, also...
 
 
matthew.
15:23 / 05.04.06
Often people cite Temple of Doom as the worst Indiana Jones film and simply an awful film. I remember a year or two ago people were saying that, so I watched it for myself again, to make sure it was still awesome. I was not proved wrong. I disagree with your sentiment, but I can definitely see why you wouldn't like it.

RE:Bladerunner - I've never sat through the whole thing. Every time I try, I'm bored to tears, I get uncomfortable with the Eighties-vibe and the fashions. I don't like Harrison Ford. AND, it just makes me want to read a Raymond Chandler film, to see somebody do it right. Sorry, everybody.

(Watch Shawshank, Lysander Stark. It's not an awful movie. It's the critical wanking about it that has turned me off from the flick itself)
 
 
ibis the being
17:22 / 05.04.06
This is more obscure than most of the others previously mentioned, but when I was fourteen I (and my two best friends) were utterly obsessed with Where The Day Takes You, starring Dermot Mulroney, Lara Flynn Boyle, Sean Astin, and of course the focal point of my pubescent passions, Balthazar Getty, as a bunch of street kids. (Note also smaller roles by Will Smith, Ricki Lake, and Alyssa Milano. Major star power, folks.) We rented and watched it over and over and cried at the end every time. I think I saw it several years later and was crushed by how cheesy it was, but I've mostly blocked that experience out of my head because I prefer to remember it the Best Movie Evarrrrr!
 
 
PatrickMM
18:28 / 05.04.06
The opening fifteen minutes or so of Temple of Doom are incredibly awesome. It's just when they get to the temple that things go down hill a bit. It's definitely weakest of the Jones films, but that doesn't make it bad.

And Blade Runner is awesome. That film and 2001 basically defined how we view the future, and despite numerous bad David Fincher movies trying to replicate it, the original brilliance of its visual design is not diminished. The score is fantastic and the plot is great too. Very powerful stuff.
 
 
Smoothly
09:46 / 06.04.06
I hope I'm not being a fool and missing subtle sarcasm here but was that not the idea, that Deckard is indeed a Robot? I am being a fool, aren't I?

Irony seems to turn to rust in my mouth at the moment. My Blade Runner nomination was indeed supposed to gently ape Velvet Vandal’s critique of Easy Rider, which he seems to dislike because, on mature reflection, it turns out to be a more complex, ambiguous, ambivalent piece of work than he took it to be in his callow youth when “smokes grass = he a hero !”.
 
 
Lysander Stark
10:49 / 06.04.06
Sadly, I think that Temple of Doom is all too good a contender. I remember watching it in the cinema, and it being the first film that really really scared me. I had to look away as the heart was magicked out of a living sacrificial victim... The kid was an accessible role-model for someone my age... It was big and brash and scary and exciting.

And then I watched it a couple of years ago and was horrified to find that the film had changed (no other explanation)-- that Kate Capshaw had dissolved into a screaming super-blonde from beyond the realms of cliché and stereotype, and that, in terms of stereotype, the Asian-child-as-Ewok device was appallingly clunky and lame. And then the rollercoaster ride? Frankly, the appearance of the colonial forces at the end came almost with a breeze of relief, the painful undertaking at last coming to a certain close, and not through the paltry efforts of Jones and his motley crew.

By contrast, a film that I find still has resonance-- perhaps more so, in fact, considering I watched it when I was probably too young-- is St. Elmo's Fire. Timeless, I am sure... And I shall now watch Shawshank sometime soon, thanks to the qualified recommendation.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
11:58 / 06.04.06
Look anyone else slates Temple Of Doom and i'll come round yr house and off yr mum!

It's the best film i've ever made for god's sake, i'm amazing in it. Come to think of it I'm friggin' good in Bladerunner aswell. Hang on have you lot got a problem with me or something. Do you know who i am?
 
 
Loomis
12:27 / 06.04.06
We're all looking forward to Indy no. 4, Harrison. I hear you've signed up for it and it's being written right now. Just don't forget the nazis.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
13:36 / 06.04.06
An alleged exchange between Harrison Ford and George Lucus on the set of Temple of Doom (not verbatim, I'm afraid).

Scene: Harrison is punching some deserving villain in the gob for the benefit of the cameras and movie lovers everywhere.

George: CUT!

Harrison: (slightly peeved) What was wrong with that? I'll do it again but how would you wish me to improve on it?

George: Do it again. But BETTER!

Truly, he is a directorial genius.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:58 / 06.04.06
I might give that story more credence if George Lucas had, in fact, directed "Temple of Doom," rather than Steven Spielberg.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
14:30 / 06.04.06
Well, maybe it was the other one then...

Boo, I'm off to play with the other boys.

(BTW, didn't they give George Lucas some ridiculous job on the set of "Doom" just to keep him AWAY from the directing? Something made-up like "Chief Camera co-ordinator, or summat?)
 
 
matthew.
14:33 / 06.04.06
I believe they gave him the dubious distinction of being screenwriter. Just to keep him occupied, I guess.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
14:35 / 06.04.06
Everyone knows that George Lucas is a, gerbil like, growth that festers on the edge of Speilbergs bung hole.

Gor, keep up Jack!
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
14:39 / 06.04.06
Everything Kevin Smith has ever done.

I don't think this needs an explanation.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
14:40 / 06.04.06
And if HE'S saying that, then it MUST be true. He's worked with both, after all.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
14:42 / 06.04.06
And that's in response to Harrison, obviously.
 
 
Lysander Stark
14:56 / 06.04.06
Looking at the IMDB page for George Lucas, it seems that he was also given the uncredited role of Missionary to keep him busy and to allow him to flex his well-tried acting muscles. The charisma... Cue many jokes that I do not have the energy to make. Can we include him in the discussion as a director who appeared to be good when I was young but who now, when I watch the films he has apparently directed (Star Wars I,II and III) is irrevocably uncool, despite a large imagination? Mind you, I am sure that this is too much of a discussion for here, and not only that, well, it brings back memories that make me toss and turn with horror just as in Anakin's Oscar-deserving nightmare sequence in the second installment...

Regarding Kevin Smith-- I find most of his films stand up to the test of time, except the silly religious one, Dogma (I am not including his recent forays with J-Lo etc). Mall Rats is either good or bad depending on the last time I watched it-- I enjoy it once, then next time think it's crap, and then enjoy it again.
 
 
matthew.
16:03 / 06.04.06
I sort of second that motion about Smith. Clerks was and continues to be funny and scathing as satire. Chasing Amy, however, does not function properly as a romantic comedy, nor as a satire of romantic comedy.

My problem with Smith is the same problem I have with Bendis: every character speaks the same way with the same mouthful of gigantic words to sound charmingly eloquent (I should clarify: my problem with Bendis is that everybody speaks the same... halting... tone... with... one... word... at... a... time....)

Smith is funny. He just has no good plots in his repertoire. I thought Dogma was fucking brilliant when I first saw it, but the second time, oy, I was bored to tears. First viewing: "OMG! Chris Rock saying Jesus owes him money! That's so funny!!1!!" Second viewing: "Holy shit is Chris Rock grating."
 
 
Seth
18:17 / 06.04.06
I might give that story more credence if George Lucas had, in fact, directed "Temple of Doom," rather than Steven Spielberg.

I think I saw something in the Indy documentaries to the effect that Lucas was behind camera for some of the movie. Can't remember much about it, though.
 
 
PatrickMM
22:02 / 06.04.06
Kevin Smith has made one great movie, one really good movie and the rest are entertaining, but not particularly notable. But, he'll always have my respect for Chasing Amy, which is one of my favorite films of all time.

Chasing Amy, however, does not function properly as a romantic comedy, nor as a satire of romantic comedy.

I don't think it's intended to be either. Certainly there's some elements of the romantic comedy, the "getting to know you" montage, but the emotional devestation of the film's finale moves it out of the confines of that genre, where you always get a happy ending and sadness is confined to a montage about ten minutes before the end.

And even though it certainly upends some generic conventions, I think that's more coincidental than as an intentional satire of the genre. I think what makes the film so strong is the way it skirts between genres and moods, starting out as a very broad comedy and gradually moving into more and more dark, emotional stuff. The ending of the film has some funny bits, most notably the Jay and Silent Bob scene, but it's primarily about the dark drama.

I think Smith sells himself short by feeling like he can only do "dick and fart jokes," something he's constantly talking about. It's his really goofy movies that usually fail (Mallrats or Jay and Bob), it's the ones with a more grounded emotional universe, Clerks and Amy, that do succeed and even with the heavier stuff, are also his funniest.

And I totally agree about that Dogma Chris Rock comment, a perfect summation of how I felt about the film.
 
 
This Sunday
00:52 / 07.04.06
'Chasing Amy' is my singularly least favorite Kevin Smith film, primarily because of the telegraphing and inane 'spelling out' moments, peppered throughout. That big speech about use and trust and people being people, let's have a threeway? I'm not your fucking whore, full stop, pan to Affleck.

'Shawshank Redemption' is heartwarming so long as you don't think too hard, and it's earnest nature wins me over.

'Bladerunner'... on a better world, every single copy of this would magically transform into a copy of 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep' and we'd all be better off for that.

'Easy Rider' is fun, and its protagonists are a couple a fuckups.

And I feel the same about them now, as I did when I first saw them.

I don't know that I've ever totally been enthralled with something, entertainment-wise, to later find it repulsive or idiotic beyond standing. Actually, I can confess to one in reverse, which is: 'Showgirls'. It really is kinda funny, isn't it?
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
11:12 / 07.04.06
psst... Daytripped just admitted to liking Showgirls... cue the uncomfortable shuffling of feet and firtive looks...
 
 
■
15:46 / 07.04.06
Oh, how can you NOT like Showgirls? It's got dolphin impressions and everything.
 
 
GogMickGog
16:27 / 07.04.06
Oh, thank the man upstairs-I'm not the only one to be vastly underwhelmed by fat Kevin Smith! An abundance of pop culture references need not a good film make..
 
 
Shrug
18:44 / 07.04.06
I may just be throwing shit and hoping it sticks but I blame Kevin Smith for Dawson's Creek. And the only non-annoying character that that ever spawned was Jen and even then only season 1&2.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:33 / 07.04.06
You're not alone in your lack of enthusiasm for Kevin Smith, Mick-Travis. If your objection to him is that he's fat though, I'd have to say that's not a criterion I would use to justify much. In terms of the girth and heft of real Americans, he is about average, I expect. Only media representations lead us to believe otherwise, with their endless parade of unrealistically thin people.

The disrespect many are showing for the magnificent Blade Runner puzzles me. Nobody has said anything yet to convince me that it doesn't deserve to be up there among my top ten still. I think it was so influential that you kiddies look at it now and think it's derivative, when it was seminal.
 
  

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