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"The Body Sovereign"

 
 
Persephone
19:03 / 22.03.06
A few weeks ago I was thinking about the abortion debate, and devising in my head a possible legal standard that could be applied across the board. It basically comes down to the idea that the state ought to have rule over its own body, and what goes on within its own body; but this rule would end wherever it reached the boundaries of another body. This body would have rule over itself, and what goes on within itself; and by this body, I mean an actual body --you know, a person. I want to call this the body sovereign, except that I think that term already means something else. For the purposes of this thread, let us say that "the body sovereign" means that people have authority over their own bodies & that which is contained in their bodies.

So obviously where I am going with this is, a pregnant woman would have authority over her own body & anything contained in her body. Including a fetus. But this principle would also apply to any other thing having to do with the body, for both men and women.

I'm interested in the moral objections to this standard, but possibly more so the logical objections. I mean, I'm already thinking why not the concept of the family sovereign? Because clearly, the state reaches into families --for example, intervening in the case of abused children. Or property sovereign, where you could do anything that you wanted on your own property? But you can't run a meth lab. So would there be any basis for for a body sovereign? To what degree does the state currently intervene with the body?

Or on the other hand, would this be a dangerous precedent to set --i.e., by establishing the boundary at the body, do you cede way too much control over everything else. Then again the state space could be negotiable, whereas the body space would be theoretically non-negotiable.

Also the difficulties in adopting such a standard, or examples of current legal standards that conflict with this proposed standard.

If anything, you could just shoot this down & I can stop thinking about it...
 
 
matthew.
21:48 / 22.03.06
Very interesting. I will come back to this, but I want to put this down. As with child abuse, the state swoops in and decides that the parenting units cannot effectively and safely parent the offsprings. I guess that this notion will apply to, say, pregnant females wishing to terminate their fetus. What if, however, the state believes that the female cannot effectively and safely make this decision? Say in the case of perhaps, a mentally handicapped would-be mother, or perhaps a mother under severe emotional stress? Then I think the sovereignty of the body would be compromised by state intervention.
 
 
astrojax69
05:06 / 23.03.06
and of course the right-to-life argument will be that encroaching upon the body of the foetus is entirley commensuarble with the definition 'body sovereign' and so the mother can't lay a finger...

where in this debate, too, for the sake of the animal liberation argument, does the body of an animal become its own and untouchable by us humans? i can see cows laughing all the way to the.... abattoir! [sorry, just a joke.]

but you see the idea. it requires a definition [standard] that uniquely picks out a healthy sane [ha ha!] human to be competent to make its own decisions (reference matthesis' point) that at once also includes all those things you want to make a corporate body decision on, f'r instance how community leaders are chosen, how you define property, how you ensure the interests of resources are equitably distributed - how do you ensure each body has identical - or equivalent - rights. well, and indeed, should they?

i'm not sure i can really think of a single system localised around only the physical instantiation of a human body that ensures we incorporate strongly the principles of fairness and equity of resources and support a 'broad church' as it were, not manifesting a community only of inherent individual power. imagine if a state says, you go to gaol, or pay this much, or we will execute you, or some such demand - in a community where the body sovereign obtained, i don't see what could make that person submit. lay a finger on hir and you violate the principle. anarchy?

seems like we have to, in principle, let the state inside the body sovereign without prior consent, as it were. and it seems biologically sensible to do so, being social nurturing animals. you mention family, but surely parents execise considerable control over their offspring, lessening admittedly from birth to their own maturity. can a state control any of that, by manipulating the parent so exerting some control on the child? the elders often know what is good, especially that we are inclined not to see ourselves because it looks hard. can't see a way around that.

seems an interesting diversion, but don't lose any sleep?
 
 
Jub
07:37 / 23.03.06
Persephone - if the body had rule of itself and everything within it, would that give a mother the right to terminate a pregnancy which had almost come to term?
 
 
Cat Chant
08:38 / 23.03.06
Persephone - have you read anything by Giorgio Agamben? He writes about the relation between sovereignty and the body, in his books Homo Sacer and Remnants of Auschwitz (the only two I've read), in ways which intersect interestingly with what you talk about - he has this idea that sovereign power takes hold of us at the point of what he calls 'bare life', and I went to a conference paper once about what the implications for this were for abortion rights, since 'bare life' is very similar to what some people would call, say, 'foetal life'.

I know that doesn't make much sense. It'll take me a few weeks to get round to finding the bits of paper that my Agamben notes are on, and then I can post something that actually engages with your idea.
 
 
Persephone
15:31 / 23.03.06
As with child abuse, the state swoops in and decides that the parenting units cannot effectively and safely parent the offsprings. I guess that this notion will apply to, say, pregnant females wishing to terminate their fetus. What if, however, the state believes that the female cannot effectively and safely make this decision?

Well okay, matthesis, I definitely get that that's the way it is in the state as is. Where the state apparently increasingly does not believe that any woman can safely and effectively make these decisions.

But I'm talking about about an imaginary state that does apply this body sovereign standard. Is that what you're talking about? Because in this state, I'd say that the diference would be that children in a family exist within the body of the state, which would have a certain amount of jurisdiction over these children. Whereas a child in utero would exist within the body of the mother, who would have jurisdiction. So I'm talking specifically about a state where the established rule is that women can make these decisions.

Having said that, nations invade other nations for good and bad reasons. How would it play out if the state did not agree with the policies of the sovereign individual.

I'm also overlooking a major thing in that things like abortion clinics exist within the body of the state...

In any case, I'm not really looking for an up-or-down vote on "the body sovereign." I'm more interested in playing out the implications of such a theoretical standard to their logical conclusions, and beyond the abortion debate.

Responses to astrojax, Jub, and Deva TK:

R: What if the body contains something that would be harmful to the state, if it emerged?
P: Like what, Hellboy?
R: Well, take Typhoid Mary--
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:54 / 23.03.06
I don't want to derail this by focusing too hard on the abortion part of the question, but I honestly find it quite hard to understand the argument that says the mother's sovereignty over her own body is the end of the debate. Because, and correct me if I'm wrong, this would imply that a foetus has absolutely no rights until the moment of birth - which is actually quite reminiscent of the anti-abortion focus on the moment of conception. Legally, I suppose that is defensible - the cases where it might cause concern are presumably very rare. Morally, however, it seems intuitively wrong to me. Is that part of the distinction at play?

As to the more general question, is sovereignty presumed not to include what one does and where one places one's body? I *think* that doesn't cause any problems, but the whole concept starts to become quite involved, to my mind, to the extent that I'm not sure what its really for.
 
 
Slate
16:19 / 23.03.06
So what happens when Pharmaceutical companies come in and register your genetic code as intellectual property of their own? Which is happening right now in some parts of the world. You are owned from birth to death even before you are born. Take for example the tribe somewhere(?) who have a natural immunity to sickle cell malaria, they are hot right now on the gene pool stock market... your just a commodity, really.
 
 
Persephone
17:52 / 23.03.06
To astrojax:

and of course the right-to-life argument will be that encroaching upon the body of the foetus is entirley commensuarble with the definition 'body sovereign' and so the mother can't lay a finger...

Yes, true! There the standard continues that the mother ought to have rule over her own body, and what goes on within her own body; but this rule would end wherever it reached the boundaries of another body --in this case, the fetus. But here it breaks: you could not continue to say that this fetus would have rule over itself, and what goes on within itself. So you have a question about who is authorized to act on behalf of the fetus.

i'm not sure i can really think of a single system localised around only the physical instantiation of a human body that ensures we incorporate strongly the principles of fairness and equity of resources and support a 'broad church' as it were, not manifesting a community only of inherent individual power

Do you think that such a system is impossible? Can't there be lines of negotiation? So that the individual could act as its own sovereign and also as a citizen of a larger state? That is, this system would not be localized only around the body, but around the body among other things. So "the body sovereign" would not be the be-all, end-all. It would be a module in a larger system & what would that system look like? Or do you think think it would be impossible to incorporate into any system?
 
 
astrojax69
20:08 / 23.03.06
So "the body sovereign" would not be the be-all, end-all. It would be a module in a larger system

if the body is only partly sovereign, then we have lost your initial premise. now, in almost all states - probably actually all - there are laws that stop at the body and some that go right on through. i took your idea to be to find a way that made the body sovereign a base level, below which nothing transcends. yes, i find that impossible. real anarchy is a fiction; we are social creatures and it will be our natural inclination to negotiate those relationships we inevitably have with others through a structure of submission and we will always include the potential for the invasion of our bodies through antecedent consent.

seems to be the nature of the beast.

also, i think it healthier to talk about contribution and existence within a society from the perspective of the self's engagement, rather than mindset ourselves with the despair of the inevitable intrusions. overcome!

be. that should be the guiding principle of devising the system of the state.
 
 
Persephone
22:08 / 23.03.06
To Jub:

if the body had rule of itself and everything within it, would that give a mother the right to terminate a pregnancy which had almost come to term?

This was the first question that Radix asked me, and it pulled me up short. I mean, it would have to. Wouldn't it?
 
 
Persephone
22:13 / 23.03.06
Deva: I have not read those books. I will look them up, and look forward to your thoughts!
 
 
Homeless Halo
22:39 / 23.03.06
Depends on whether one considers a fetus as having a body seperate from its mothers', and/or whether or not the mother is the default decision maker on behalf of said fetus, who cannot, as of yet, discourse on its own behalf. In this case, it could be said to fall to the state to protect the fetus, as the mother wishes, in the case of abortion, to do the fetus harm.

I don't see how it would help with anything.
 
 
Leidan
14:32 / 25.03.06
I think you would find Michel Foucault's works fascinating in relation to this question - two of his main philosophical projects are the body and how power works upon it.

It would be very difficult for me to even approach his works here, but one of the main assertions he has made in the course of his studies, very relevant to this question, is that in fact the notion of 'sovereign' power is entirely insufficient to describe the way power functions in modern society. He describes a whole set of power relations and power mechanisms that have invaded, invested, changed, affected our bodies largely outside the realm of judicial/state power - and outside of conscious intention/consent - and that yet help to support and constitute these structures.

For example, he would point to the spread of disciplinary procedures, medical procedures, changes in and indeed the constitution of sexualities as various ways in which power has infiltrated and affected our bodies outside of the system of 'sovereignty' - there are various 'mechanisms' and practices related to the body in our society that have nothing to do with the state, and which we take for granted, but which affect and invade our bodies in many profound ways.

You could certainly say that the above examples of non-state power over the body do not really affect your idea, as you supposedly tacitly give your permission for them to operate - but I really don't think that conscious knowledge or decision comes into the process in alot of cases. Abortion is very different of course as it's a very overt and 'binary' example of power/body/sovereignty; I don't know what he would have said about it. But yeah, as you're thinking in general terms, I think you'd find his writings very interesting - 'Discipline and Punish' and 'The History of Sexuality' especially.
 
 
Persephone
16:23 / 27.03.06
Thank you, Leidan --that's definitely the direction I wanted to go in. This is how I think! You start with this random notion --not even a "concept"-- in this case, of a so-called body sovereign; you play it out, and right away you run into limitations. You adapt to them, and you keep playing it out. In other words, I don't mind if I lose my initial premise. I agree that a system that made the body sovereign a base level, below which nothing transcends would be impossible. Actually, I worked it out to the extent that I had pretty much reconstructed things as they are. Tthough I do have this little question if there isn't a subtle difference that I wouldn't be able to tell unless this alternate universe could be realized. But anyway, it's not about validating some random notion that struck me while I was wondering what the world would be like if people were like rabbits. (Female rabbits can reabsorb their fetuses, if warren conditions are not favorable for supporting new life. Well, the ones in Watership Down can.)

I think what I do want to get at in this thread is the anxiety that backgrounds this question. It's an attempt to mediate by theory, to paraphrase, the mindset of despair about inevitable intrusions into the body. You're right, abortion is very overt/binary --and it's almost like a place where people want to draw the line, because they can see where to draw.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
02:16 / 30.03.06
As to the animal rights argument above, animals are chattels at Common Law. Any rights they have, including animal protection statutes with humanitarian intent, are those that we as a society wish to delegate to a sentient form of property. Whether right or wrong, it would be unworkably cumbersome to alter this.

I don't know if the concept of "sovereignty" isn't overly ambitious. Why not something more modest along the lines of "corporeal integrity": i.e., perhaps one should have the right to consume any substance but either to purchase or sell it; or have a friend assist one, without compensation, in a planned suicide in order to avoid botching the job with the possibility of surviving in a greatly diminished state (perhaps evidenced by some sort of recorded sworn statement); or, as in the Roman republic, not to be liable for inprisonment for any crime if you paid compensation and damages (I'm thinking of financial crimes; though the Roman republic for much of its history included murder as a civil offence). Personally, I think that disproportionate excise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol products are an unwarranted intrusion.

As to a standard, shouldn't the control of one's body be subject to a standard much lower than legal sanity? The standard for testamentary capacity is "to know the nature and extent of one's property, and to recognize (though not necessarily benefit) the natural objects of one's affection." One can be legally insane (let alone just mentally ill), and have testamentary capacity. Thus, the standard would treat the body as a sort of personal property
 
 
Iridesce
22:56 / 29.04.06
Do you think that such a system is impossible? Can't there be lines of negotiation? So that the individual could act as its own sovereign and also as a citizen of a larger state? That is, this system would not be localized only around the body, but around the body among other things. So "the body sovereign" would not be the be-all, end-all. It would be a module in a larger system & what would that system look like? Or do you think think it would be impossible to incorporate into any system?


I think the sovereign body as you're discussing it could be difficult to carry out in many nations: A portion of state power is produced through the control of citizens' bodies. By allocating the rights citizens have over their bodies, the state asserts and reiterates its own power. Designating the body 'sovereign' negates some of the power the state claims over citizens' bodies as a means of reproducing its own authority. So nation-states may be less inclined to adopt such a system. Which is not to say it shouldn't be thought about--quite the opposite.

I'm fascinated by the abortion question currently going on in the U.S. because it gets at the way male and female subjects are produced as different kinds of citizens, or are produced as citizens in a different "register," if that makes sense. Male citizens' rights to their bodily agency are more of a given than females' rights--the state can intervene and say what a woman can and cannot do with her body. So the bodies of female citizens become a site where the power of the state is reproduced more than on male ones.

So the difference in bodily rights is a kind of gauge for the state's power-building. I find the idea of the "body sovereign" useful because it's an impulse towards eliminating gendered citizenship.
 
 
alas
23:37 / 30.04.06
I really like what you have to say, Iridesce, on this topic--the notion of differing registers and asymmetrical effects of state powers based on genders seems exactly right. Here’s what I said the last time this issue arose in the headshop, and since I still find Drucilla Cornell to be the most relevant philosopher on this count, I thought I’d simply quote myself:

my thoughts on this issue have been strongly shaped by Drucilla Cornell's arguments. She summarizes them here, in a letter to the Boston Review of Books dated 1995. Here are two relevant quotations:

I think it is not reasonable to expect women to accept the legitimacy of any legal system that denies them the right to abortion. How can I make that claim? At the heart of the Kantian conception of reasonableness - and in The Imaginary Domain I foreground and defend the political conception of reasonableness developed by John Rawls - is the argument that the rightfulness of any law should be judged by the hypothetical consent of citizens suitably represented and evaluated as free and equal persons.

The Rawlsian conception of reasonableness is inseparable from the public evaluation of our equivalent worth as persons in spite of the very real facts of our differences. What does it mean to deny a woman the right to abortion as a matter of law? It means that she is denied her equivalent worth as a person -- the very moral status that rights are meant in this conception to recognize. Put as strongly as possible: the fact of a woman's sexual difference is used to justify her treatment as a violable object. Since this treatment denies women equality as persons, it denies us the fair conditions of cooperation in which acceptance of any law as rightful could be legitimately imposed upon us.


and

The fact of woman's sexual differences should be taken into account in precisely this way: we must recognize in our political morality that a fetus is like no other being because it is a part of another's body. The development of legal interests must, rather, turn on a conception of personhood in which one exists independently, and not as a part of the body of the mother.

Cornell therefore argues that while the fetus is connected to the woman's body by an umbilical cord, it is a part of her body, and it remains her choice as to how what to do with that part of her body. The cutting of the cord is the crucial moment where the fetus becomes a child and a human with separable interests. Cornell developed these ideas further in her book, The Imaginary Domain, 1998.

I essentially agree with this fairly "bright line," and I do not see it as a problematic "mirror" of the anti-choice stance, as L'Anima implies.

I also don't believe I am arguing, as L'Anima implies that I am, "that [a woman's] choice is always best, and that it doesn't matter when it may not be." I'm arguing that women must have this right in order to be free and equal citizens before the law. I'm not sure what "best" means in this context. If the woman does not wish to have this fetus as a part of her body it is immoral to force her to carry it to term.

Finally, the claim that my post "left [L'Anima] with the impression that alas was arguing that women are the best people to make the choice about abortion, but can't be considered to competently make choices about procreation."

I'm not 100% sure what's being argued here. I am understanding the term "procreation" to be "the sexual activity of conceiving and bearing offspring." Women must make choices about procreation, all the time, and, I am in fact arguing that, in order to do so, they must have abortion as an option, because procreation, or, more accurately, pregnancy, can be forced upon another person.

Pregnancy is not reducible to a "decision": as Nina and others have argued, we cannot consciously control our body's fertility (although contraceptive devices/pharmaceuticals can give some element of control, they are not 100% effective and cannot be used at all times during a woman's fertility). Moreover, our life-situations can change dramatically at any time after intercourse in ways that we cannot fully control. Women are in fact, therefore, the only ones who CAN competently make choices about their own procreation. That's my argument.


Basically, I do believe women have a right to terminate up until the umbilical cord is cut. Full stop.
 
 
118118
22:15 / 15.06.06
Erm, this is not about abortion, but, I would think that the idea or the body soveriegn would have implications on the imposition of work? I ceratinly feel that forcing a mentally of physicay ill person into work is an invasion of the body - in a way.
 
 
118118
22:56 / 15.06.06
I going to attempt to answer my question:
- I hope this isn't too off topic, I hope not Or on the other hand, would this be a dangerous precedent to set --i.e., by establishing the boundary at the body, do you cede way too much control over everything else.
- Marx might have thought that labour is an embodiement and consumption of internal mechanisms - that themselves ought not to be reified. "By labour-power or capacity for labour is to be understood the aggregate of those mental and physical capabilities existing in a human being" (Quote from Capital I). Is the embodiement and consumption of the body, internal? I would say, maybe, as both embodiement and consumption of the body are essential elements in lots of important internal events - like those of a fetus. What events occur outside the body, that do involve consumption and embodiement of the body?
 
 
nixwilliams
04:12 / 22.06.06
I agree with a lot of what alas says (above). As long as a foetus is drawing sustenance and being supported by another body, it is in a way part of that body. Until the foetus is separated from that body, it is a parasite (terminology that will probably get me into trouble).

I wonder if the question about state control stopping at the body (at the skin?) can be applied to 'treatment' and surgical alterations of trans* bodies? I am currently very angry that (in Australia) it is very hard for me to alter my body in the ways that I wish without first jumping through seventeen thousand beurocratic hoops. To me, this kind of surgery (for me, a chest reconstruction) should not be seen something to 'treat' the 'psychological issues' of a person, but as the materialisation of a person claiming sovereignty over their own body. I find it bizarre that people can alter their bodies in certain ways (facial surgeries, piercings, tattoos, body-building, tanning in salons, breast enlargements for non-trans* women and reductions for non-trans* males, HRT) without too much of a fuss, but when they want to alter their bodies in other ways ('femaling' or 'maling' surgeries, treatment, hormones) they are given the run-around. It frustrates me that I have very little say over what procedures I am 'allowed' to access.

I guess this also brings up another issue. I am all for 'sovereignty', but whose claim trumps whose? For example (let's assume full body sovereigny) if I go to a clinic and say, "I want to terminate this pregnancy," and I am almost full term, I should be within my rights. However, what if the surgeon does not want to perform such an action? If I force them to do so ("It's my right!") am I violating their body by making it perform an action that person does not wish to perform?

And that leads us back into the ideas of work and the body, and who owns the body at work...
 
 
alas
14:34 / 22.06.06
I am currently very angry that (in Australia) it is very hard for me to alter my body in the ways that I wish without first jumping through seventeen thousand beurocratic hoops.

I don't know Australia's system, so I hope this isn't a completely dense question--is this complex system invoked because there's any state/insurance-supported funding involved or is it purely because it's not within gender norms? I.e., if a nontrans Australian woman goes to a plastic surgeon for a "traditional" boob job--i.e., making her breasts bigger or "lifting" them--I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that's not covered by any insurance or state medical coverage; she pays out of her own pocket and it's straightforward. If a transman goes to the same plastic surgeon and asks for breast reduction, is it a different story?

(Anyone else: how does this work in the US? Once you have approval for transitioning, which if I'm understanding the process correctly requires a 3-month "gatekeeping" review by a therapist, is there a further bureaucratic system that intervenes specifically before surgeries can happen? I suspect that, just as most US medical professionals get no training on abortion procedures and many would refuse to do so on principal, some plastic surgeons probably refuse to work on trans people--is that accurate?)
 
 
nixwilliams
00:18 / 26.06.06
It's not fully-funded, by any means. There are very few (if any... I haven't found them) surgeons willing to do top surgery without the 'appropriate' letters from psychiatrists. I wish it was a case of you get what you pay for (one of those rare occasions, for me), because I know a few people who would be willing to fork out the cash to get top surgery without going on hormones (a couple of us had a wishful thinking day not long ago, when we calculated how much it would cost us to fly to the US to get surgery there).
 
 
*
03:37 / 26.06.06
Alas, while some trans men do get a simple breast reduction, male chest construction is a different surgery (actually three different types of different surgeries) and does require special training, which generally only plastic surgeons who specialize in gender transition surgery are likely to have.

So far as I know, the bureaucratic hoops for transition in the US are as follows:

•3 months therapy and/or six months living full-time in the role of the gender of identity, for a gender specialist's referral for hormones
•two such referrals by separate qualified practitioners for surgery (including hystorectomy, orchidectomy, vaginoplasty, chest reconstruction surgery, phalloplasty or metoidoplasty)

Surgeons tend to set their own requirements; some will take you at your word if you say you have the referrals and some won't do a surgery unless they (in their usually unqualified opinion) think you're a "true transsexual."

It is problematic that a trans man may be denied sterilization procedures which might be covered by insurance for non-trans women. I also know non-trans women who have been denied tubal ligation on the grounds that they will want children someday, even though they have health conditions which make being pregnant more than usually dangerous. But it's also problematic that in the US, trans surgeries are restricted to those with the privilege of being able to pay for them. This is a discussion we've had on the boards before.
 
 
MintyFresh
12:45 / 28.06.06
I believe that a woman has a right to control what is happening to her body, and I don't understand why the government thinks they should have any say in this. I understand that the state wants to protect unborn children, and I agree that partial-birth abortion is wrong. I think that abortion should be legal and a mother's choice, up to a certain point in the pregnancy. The people who believe that there is never a good excuse to have an abortion take the control of a woman's body away from her. Imagine that you are a pregnant woman. How would you feel if you decided to have an abortion and the government stopped you? You would be forced to suffer nine months of unwanted pregnancy plus hours of painful labor to bring the baby into the world. You never wanted the baby in the first place, so naturally you give it up for adoption, and the child will likely end up being shuffled around in the system for years. The government may think that they are protecting the child by making sure it gets born, and I suppose a life in the foster care system is better than no life at all, but life with loving parents who actually wanted you is much better. If certain members of the government get their way, all forms of abortion will be made illegal, and victims of rape and carriers of handicapped babies will be forced to carry and give birth to babies they simply don't want.

By the way, if a mother who was not allowed to have an abortion tried to commit suicide, and somehow she lived and the baby died, would she be accused of murder?
 
 
alas
16:35 / 28.06.06
I'd like to briefly address a couple of important but complex points you've raised, That Pale Chick:

I understand that the state wants to protect unborn children, and I agree that partial-birth abortion is wrong.

I think I (at least somewhat) understand your aversion to partial-birth abortion; it's a graphic term, that was often illustrated by graphic pictures in the mainstream media newsreports when it was regularly in the news a few years back. And both the term and the pics were selected by people with excellent marketing skills to make a sometimes necessary medical procedure sound completely and utterly depraved.

I accept that, in the end, people of good will may simply disagree on some parts of this subject. But, I do think it's important to note that the term "partial-birth" abortion is problematic, in that the legal description of it describes something that is close to something that exists, but not something that actually medically exists:

Here's the testimony of Dr. Warren Hern, who is probably the leading specialist on abortion care and services (in fact, he and his Boulder colleagues perform the majority of all late-term abortions in the US), before the US Senate while they were debating this bill:

The bill under consideration, S. 939, is called the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act," but there is no such thing as a "partial birth abortion." This is an operation which has never been described in the medical literature, and as far as I know, it does not exist. The bill's sponsors describe some procedures which have been performed for many generations in the case of obstetrical emergency. The operation mentioned in the Senate bill contains some elements of a procedure called an "Intact D & E," or "Intact Dilation and Evacuation" by some physicians during the course of scientific discussions of late abortions, but I have never heard the term, "partial birth abortion" in these discussions. As written, the bill describes aspects of an operation which is performed routinely by some physicians currently, but they are procedures with a long history and wide application by other physicians on a sporadic and unpredictable basis. The bill's language could be interpreted to refer to virtually any second trimester or later abortion. If made more specific, it has the potential to single out and discriminate against specific doctors, some of whose procedures may be alleged to be consistent with the language of the bill. Doctors are poor judges of these subtleties when presented with the exigencies of patient needs. These circumstances mean that the bill can produce a "witch hunt" atmosphere that chills medical practice and interferes with good patient care by conscientious doctors.

Now, the procedures actually used for such extreme late-term abortions are not exactly pretty, I'll grant you (surgery rarely is, and this surgery is particularly open to sensationalizing), but the implication in most attempts to limit these abortions is that the procedure is typically sought by ditzy young things who just are too lazy, foolish, or indecisive to make up their minds.

However, the reality on the ground is more complex, which leads me to suspect that the real problem is people still, by and large, don't trust the judgement of people with female bodies, and don't see us as full moral beings. I know people who have had such abortions--a woman in my athletic club, aged 45, with 3 kids already, had a "surprise" post-tubal ligation pregnancy; she found out late in the pregnancy she had developed a dangerous medical condition; the best way forward, for her to live healthily was a late-term abortion.

These abortions are often sought in pregnancies that were very much desired, sometimes by people opposed to abortion, who found themselves facing grave health risks near the end of the pregnancy. Dr. Hern's words, again, are helpful, because he talks both about the very rarity of these abortions, and about the specific instances where he's performed them.

First, his statistics: While about 1% of all abortions are performed after about 20 weeks of pregnancy, only about .03%, or fewer than 500 [that's the total per year in the US--with a population of almost 300 million], are performed after 26 weeks. The majority of these are now performed by me or one of my medical colleagues. These abortions are almost always performed for the most tragic reasons of severe fetal anomaly, genetic disorder, or immediate risk to the woman's life. They are not performed for frivolous reasons, contrary to statements by those opposed to abortion.

WARNING: The following excerpt has some slightly graphic descriptions of some medical crises which Hern felt required late-term abortions, which some may find difficult to read if you're sensitive. (My partner's a fainter, so I like to warn others).

For example, one woman was recently brought to me by air ambulance from Rapid City, South Dakota for an abortion because she was about to die from her pregnancy, which was desired. She was a diabetic and had developed hyperemesis gravidarum (uncontrollable vomiting from pregnancy). She was starving to death. Her doctors were having difficulty keeping her alive. Her blood chemical balance was severely altered to the point that her heart could stop at any time. She was profoundly dehydrated. She was critically ill and could barely speak. Since she and her husband wanted the pregnancy, they tried everything to get her through it, but she was finally advised that she must have the abortion. While being flown to Boulder so that I could see her, she almost died in the airplane. I began her treatment immediately and performed the abortion by one the techniques I have described here two days later. She recovered completely and felt healthy again the next day. Without this operation, she would have died.

Another woman with an advanced pregnancy was referred to me by a colleague in northern Colorado because her fetus had been found to have a severe genetic disorder. She and her husband both wanted the pregnancy to continue. The fetal disorder also caused a serious disease of the placenta, which, in turn, caused the woman's blood pressure to go up. When she arrived at my office, her blood pressure was starting to go up at an alarming rate. I put her in the hospital as I continued my treatment. Her urine output diminished. She became edematous. Her electrolytes (blood chemicals) were out of balance because she was not excreting urine. She developed pulmonary edema (water on the lungs) and began having difficulty breathing. Meanwhile, I was trying to prepare her for the abortion, which promised to be extremely dangerous because of a large placenta that obstructed the opening of the uterus and threatened to cause catastrophic bleeding. We crossmatched blood for her. At 2 AM on the second night, before her cervix was completely prepared for the abortion I needed to perform, I had to act. She was deteriorating rapidly and it was clear that she would die before morning if I did not perform the abortion. This operation took every bit of my skill and experience as a surgeon and everything I have learned in 22 years of performing abortions. Although she was ill for some days from the effects of the pregnancy, the patient recovered fully.

On another occasion, a woman had been referred to me from Michigan for a late abortion because the fetus had a severe anomaly. The pregnancy was complicated by polyhydramnios (too much amniotic fluid surrounding the fetus), which was the result of one of the fetal anomalies. She was resting in my recovery room in preparation for her abortion, accompanied by her husband, when suddenly, without warning, the woman developed signs of shock, and I made a diagnosis of placental abruption. The placenta had torn away from the wall of the uterus and she was bleeding to death into the uterus. I carried her into my operating room without waiting for assistance, placed her on the operating table, and assembled my surgical team. My nurse held her fist on the patients aorta to keep her from bleeding to death while I did the abortion. As I began the procedure, two units of blood (about a quart) spurted out of her uterus, and she lost another unit during the operation. Without our preparations and my skill and experience, that woman would have died within minutes.

Mr. Chairman, I did not have time with any of these cases to consult the United States Senate on the proper method of performing the abortions.

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Second, on the other hand, this point about adoptive options for birthmoms: ... the child will likely end up being shuffled around in the system for years. The government may think that they are protecting the child by making sure it gets born, and I suppose a life in the foster care system is better than no life at all, but life with loving parents who actually wanted you is much better.

You'll be relieved to learn, I think, that the system basically doesn't work this way. Newborn infants are relatively easy to find adoptive families for; if the birthmother genuinely desires to relinquish her rights to raise her child (although it's true that in all or most states the birthfather needs to be found and consulted as well, to protect), then its unlikely that the infant would ever enter the foster care system.

The foster care system usually only kicks in if the parent(s) want(s) to raise the child but is viewed as not being capable of providing an essentially safe environment for a child--a history of abusing children, etc. An exception to what I've just said might possibly apply in cases of a child relinquished for adoption but born with serious birth defects, for instance, but I confess that my knowledge of the specifics of those situations is not complete.

I'm quite sure, however, that even birthparents (or even adoptive parents) who find themselves in over their heads with reasonably healthy infants and toddlers they thought they wanted to raise themselves, but now find they can't do it, can still relinquish directly to adoptive agencies/parents, rather than to the foster system, and increasingly all these birthparents can have some say in who they would like to parent their child, as adoption has become much more "open" in the last 20 years. Here's a link, written by an organization that advocates open adoption as the "the healthiest form of adoption" (which I suspect some would dispute) explaining how open adoption works, if you're interested.

Older children, children with special needs--especially emotional or mental disabilities--are the ones who are most likely to be caught in a foster care system that is different in every state, but, in the US, universally underfunded, understaffed, inevitably burdened by lots of bureaucratic problems and redtape--and only visible to most of the wider public when there's a scandal.

I hope this is helpful.

Foster kids, are, of course, wards of the state and, as minors, are extremely subject to state authority, so they're a very interesting addition to this subject.
 
 
nixwilliams
23:55 / 28.06.06
as you mention, alas, a child's bodily integrity is frequently violated, and their 'sovereignty' over their body is minimal. this is the case not only for foster children, but all children.

it is interesting to ponder over the exact point at which a parent or guardian's nurturing starts slipping into the shaady hedgerow of abuse. a child having their nappy (diaper) changed by an adult at 6 months is 'normal' and 'necessary'. and at 2 years? 5 years? what about family members being in the bathroom when a child is having a bath? at first it's necessary because they need to be bathed. but what if they don't want to be seen naked aged 3? 6?

on a different tack, in australia people are allowed to leave school at 16. why is it that 15 year olds are not given the authority to decide where they feel comfortable. and what is the legal age for tattooing? i think it's 18. why can't younger people mark their bodies in the way they desire? (it's really paternalistic to say, "oh, they'll regret it," then cut off any opportunity for them to find out for themselves.)

yet another set of questions are raised when parents divorce. how much say does a 10 year old child have in deciding where they want to live and with whom? mum or dad? dad and stepmum? dad or dad? mum and girlfriend? aunt? grandparents? can they volunteer to become a foster child? (wasn't there a boy who was trying to divorce his parents?) i know the answer is different in different parts of the world. i just think it's a very interesting topic!
 
  
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