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Underground > Switchboard >

The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill - lights out?

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ONLY NICE THINGS

10:23 / 13.03.06

Much under-reported recently was the proposal of the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill. Ostensibly intended to allow the faster and more effective reform of business legislation, the Bill gives ministers the ability to alter legislation without the consent of parliament.

Obviously, this is causing a bit of concern.

Some safeguards are currently built into the Bill - it cannot be used to create any offence with a sentence of more than two years, it cannot justify forcible entry to property or compulsion to testify and it cannot be used to create or raise taxes. However, there is no provision for the Bill not to be used to reform itself - that is, once the Bill is in place the terms of the Bill can it seems be changed without the consent of Parliament.

It's at times like this that a written constitution doesn't seem like such a whacky idea. Taken to its logical extension, this Bill could see the end of jury trials, the end of an independent judiciary...

Am I being hysterical, or is this clearly a means for the executive to avoid those embarrassing and potentially awkward parliamentary votes?

More information and resources here.

11:14 / 13.03.06

I think the moment this is used to do something serious, Britain will be a dictatorship. They can't be serious, can they?

Mr Clarke acknowledged verbal pledges by ministers that the powers would not be used for highly political measures

They consider you complete idiots too.

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:21 / 13.03.06

To his credit, Ken Clarke did say that these verbal assurances were not adequate reassurance. I share his perplexity that writing provisions into the Bill that setting clear standards on what it can be used for seems to be so firmly off the menu.

11:25 / 13.03.06

I heard something about this being discussed on Radio 2 last week. The politician being questioned about it assured the presenter that the bill would never be used inappropriately (and we know politicians never lie).

This is distinctly worrying. Even if they do intend for it to be a way of "cutting through red tape" the potential for abuse is awesome.

I followed the link provided by Haus and sent an email to my MP expressing my concern at this development. I'd suggest others do the same ASAP.

12:05 / 13.03.06

To his credit, Ken Clarke did say that these verbal assurances were not adequate reassurance.

Sorry, I should have included that part too. It wasn't his acknowledging them that disturbed me, but rather that anyone would imagine that verbal assurances are sufficient, or should ever be required with a properly constructed law.

20:30 / 13.03.06

Yes, this whole "but don't worry, we wouldn't dream of using it for anything controversial" spiel is kind of worrying. Even if you accept that the current government actually believe this they can't seem to grasp that it could be used badly by future governments. I think Tony and his lot reckon they'll be in power forever.

Jawsus-son Starship

21:16 / 13.03.06

And if we ever try to get rid of them, hell they could just pass a law forbiding it.

06:39 / 14.03.06

The politician being questioned about it assured the presenter that the bill would never be used inappropriately (and we know politicians never lie)

I suspect in this case the politician in question wasn't lying; rather, he is just one of many with the power to decide what *is* appropriate. So it could be used to declare protest illegal, and the MP in question would still pass a polygraph test with flying colours.

Incidentally, according to Many Angry Gerbils, the maximum two-year sentence thing doesn't apply if the provision ‘implements recommendations of any one or more of the United Kingdom Law Commissions.’ So does that basically mean that part can be bypassed as long as Ian Blair says it's OK?

18:02 / 16.03.06

The Times has just covered this as well

Definately a time to use www.writetothem.com to inform your MP that they are about to make themselves irrelevant if they pass this bill.

10:37 / 17.03.06

I used writetothem but my blasted MP has a totally hopeless record so I'm not expecting any response whatsoever.

11:35 / 17.03.06

I recieved a letter back from my MP, a (ptui!) Conservative. They are apparently concerned about it and blah blah blah.

Hopefully it'll do some good.

12:39 / 17.03.06

Right, I've just written to my MP, who, judging by his last response to me (on a seperate issue), is switched on.

The rest of you, get OFF your arses.

14:34 / 21.03.06

I simply do not understand the lack of responses to this thread.

I hope to God that people are too busy writing to their MPs to post.

14:47 / 21.03.06

I've written to my new MP, but since I've just moved I'm not yet on the electoral roll in my new constituency... and since the MP is a Tory and judging from his voting record he is quite likely to vote against this anyway... But still, I've written to my MP on the matter to express my concern...

11:45 / 22.03.06

I have written too- and thanks to invisible als' link Boboss, I didn't even get off my arse to do it.
I haven'twritten to an MP before. Reading some of the other threads [refusing prescriptions, availability of abortions] I had been thinking I'm very glad I don't live in America. Then I read this....

12:13 / 22.03.06

anybody else take rather longer than 'a few minutes' to get the confirmation email thru from WriteToThem? worried i may have got it wrong somewhere...

unheimlich manoeuvre

23:08 / 22.03.06

The Prime Minister and his cabinet do seem to be increasingly divorced from reality.

So I've contacted my local MP. Reading through his voting record, he's definitely New Labour and I feel slightly soiled having supported him.
I'm not expecting a response but I may be proven wrong.

13:35 / 23.03.06

Write to Them does work, Gumbitch. I've used it before.

14:32 / 23.03.06

It took a day and a bit to get confirmation from 'Writetothem' last time I used it, so I wouldn't worry, I'm hoping it means that the system's busy.

Does anyone know off the top of their head what the timescale for the Bill is? When is it up for debate/votes? I checked the links above but couldn't find anything about how advanced it is.

If this goes through, then it's the bit of the film where people should start shouting really loudly and breaking stuff...right?

pointless & uncalled for

14:40 / 23.03.06

I appreciate that as a previous civil servant I should probably know this but as a British Citizen residing over seas, who should I be writing to? I'm guessing that it's direct to the PM.

14:54 / 23.03.06

There's a cabinet minister ( Jim Murphy, MP ) who's fielding correspondence, that could be your best bet, maybe everyone who writes to their MP could send a copy to him as well.

paranoidwriter waves hello

16:06 / 23.03.06

Thanks Haus for starting this thread, and also to Boboss for the heads-up in The Barbelith pager Thread; I've been busy and not heard of The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill (shame on me). Suffice to say, my MP will be hearing from me within the next few days... after I've calmed down. Grrrr...

18:02 / 23.03.06

Of course there's a strong argument that this Bill merely confirms powers which are there by convention. Or royal prerogative or something. Parliamentary sovereignty might we lose? Forgive me for my cynicism and for talking in questions, but would that really make any difference? I've been laughing at all the recent media kerfuffle on the issue of the possibility of a future totalitarian regime. How can supposedly educated people be so duped? We're in it, people. It's here.

My initial reaction to this piece of legislation is that any order made would be open to judicial review and so it in fact gives more power to the judges. I have a vested interest in believing this to be a good thing. But I can understand the reaction to the arrogance of this tiny little revolutionary law. I'm off to find out what 'mischief' it's supposed to cure.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:15 / 23.03.06

My initial reaction to this piece of legislation is that any order made would be open to judicial review and so it in fact gives more power to the judges. I have a vested interest in believing this to be a good thing

Except that the Bill also provides for the bill being amended without consultation itself, which I think is where some of the anxiety lies.

19:02 / 23.03.06

It also requires Parliamentary approval in one form or another. It's at the end. Fascinating reading though.

Joy Division Oven Gloves

22:11 / 23.03.06

The most detailed description of the bill and it's proposed safeguards I've seen were on a New Politics Network briefing, available to download in pdf from Indymedia. It also includes some proposed ammendments from the Select committee on Regulatory Reform.

14:15 / 27.03.06

Got a reply back from my MP. Not massively reassuring since he appears to place more importance on the financial impact of such measures over their constitutional implications and is concerned that they could enable government to increase regulation without parlimentary scrutiny. But outside of that he reiterated what I had already surmised: it is Tory position to press for greater parlimentary scrutiny being written into this bill...

10:24 / 06.04.06

This article in the Guardian is interesting, particularly for the lenghty and outraged comments that follow it (and practically no dissenting voices, other than someone particularly exercised by the smoking ban). But as one of the commenters says, it's hard to know what even a concerned citizen can actually DO about any of this. I'm off to join Liberty I think...

Tryphena Absent

10:59 / 06.04.06

Mayday is fast approaching. I say we do Mayday about this. Viciously. In the no protest zone.

12:45 / 06.04.06

I would but I'm coming back from Manchester that day and not sure when I'll be in town - probably after 5 alas.

unheimlich manoeuvre

15:36 / 06.04.06

jeed - ...If this goes through, then it's the bit of the film where people should start shouting really loudly and breaking stuff...right?

Nina Skryty - Mayday is fast approaching. I say we do Mayday about this. Viciously. In the no protest zone.

It's time for civil disobedience.
Actually, I'm so hacked off with this undemocratic two party state, I might be slightly uncivil.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

15:46 / 13.04.06

Spyblog report the Financial Times reporting Murphy and Blair backing down on the Bill, or at least appearing to, but no-one else is reporting this story that I've seen, which would appear rather odd.

Joy Division Oven Gloves

16:20 / 13.04.06

The Guardian are running the same story. Guardian

17:59 / 13.04.06

So they tried it, realised they'd lose and backed down, to try another tack. "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance' indeed. They can always expand SOCAs powers, or simply act outside the law (Iraq anyone?).

It's time for civil disobedience.

Hahaha. I'm sure that will make Tony and his cronies think twice, an enormous 2m strong march through London perhaps? Seriously though, like what? Will uncivil disobedience be any more effective? The time for civil disobedience has been and gone if you ask me, it's no longer an effective political strategy.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:51 / 13.04.06

Nah, they'll make all pretenses of backing down, and wait until people have forgotten, then bring it back exactly the same just using different language.

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