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Barbelith doesn't get mad, it gets locked

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19:58 / 09.03.06

Allah be praised.

rising and revolving

20:04 / 09.03.06

But hey, guess I've gotta keep my mouth shut in case n00b doesn't think I'm barbelith material. Because I think this might be the first shit storm I've kicked up.

Just as a by the way, I thought the whole message leading up to this statement was really good. You've kind of explained your thought process, and your realisation that you might be in over your head.

The decision to step back for a bit and rethink your stance is a great sign of enagement with the board and concepts. You don't need to agree with everyone - you can come back to this meta-point if, over time, you think it's needed. But you'll be doing it with more perspective and an understanding of the community here.

Good show.

rising and revolving

20:09 / 09.03.06

And in between the post I was replying to and my response showing up - it gets even better.

Happy.

20:13 / 09.03.06

Id entity: You have a wonderfully optimistic take on what sprung from some debatably ugly commentary (mine included and perhaps exclusively) and that statement was pretty barbequotable in of itself. I also appreciated the person in questions voicing of concern.

20:53 / 09.03.06

However, can you grant and ER equally accept my perception that this thread's particular reaction also smells a little of the "women who complain about sexism are just sexless, joyless women going all schoolmarmish on the cool rule breakin' boyz..." school of thought that I mentioned in Feminism 101.

Oh, yes, definitely, in this case. I was bringing up the other thread because... well, because I thought the word "rape" was more precise and more concise in that context, I suppose, than the replacement. Different kettle of beans than the main kettle of this thread, but related.

If I were still a Head Shop mod, I don't think I would've vetoed the name change, but I almost definitely would have skipped it. (If that's unclear: a moderation proposal comes with three choices, agree, disagree or skip. Skipped items remain in your queue until either you come back to them or enough other mods vote yea or nay.)

Jawsus-son Starship

21:06 / 09.03.06

However, can you grant and ER equally accept my perception that this thread's particular reaction also smells a little of the "women who complain about sexism are just sexless, joyless women going all schoolmarmish on the cool rule breakin' boyz..." school of thought that I mentioned in Feminism 101.

But isn't Mr Carnival a cool rule breakin' boy himself? Women who complain about sexism can be cool rule breakin' girls, no? And hell, I bet sexually harrased women dig sex as much as the next, unsexually harrased women? So please don't tell me the intention behind my posts.

*

21:19 / 09.03.06

I can't tell you the meaning behind that last post, Math, let alone your intention. Maybe I'm befuddled with the cold medication, but you've just gone and made no sense.

21:33 / 09.03.06

DMath;

You seem like a well-intentioned young man, well done. But answer me this - If you'd just joined say a golf club with, I'm guessing, a membership backlog of a couple of months, would virtually your first act on gaining admittance be to run around naked on the 18th green, covered in ordure and howling like a banshee? I mean possibly it would, but... well I like to think it wouldn't be, y'know?

Jawsus-son Starship

21:33 / 09.03.06

This thread was not about allowing all mensfolk everywhere to snicker at insensitive jokes, and how the womens can't understand us. No, no, no, this was about not immedietely locking threads because of personal oppinion, and the like. But I'm tired too, so I'm not making much sense.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:35 / 09.03.06

Um, actually, dude, I'm not a dude. People always think I'm a bloke; my current nick is a kind of joke about that.

Jawsus-son Starship

21:39 / 09.03.06

would virtually your first act on gaining admittance be to run around naked on the 18th green, covered in ordure and howling like a banshee?

No, but I might open my big mouth on the 19th, and fight the wrong fight for a little too long.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:40 / 09.03.06

No, no, no, this was about not immedietely locking threads because of personal oppinion, and the like.

I think part of the point is that distrbuted moderation means that, although it is personal opinion, it's not just one person's opinion.

If I were you, I'd probably sleep on it, and come back fresh tomorrow.

Incidentally, I proposed the name change on "Women who rape", because it was suggested and had been suggested before. Primarily, it was because it seemed to me a taxonomic irregularity with potentially far-reaching consequences - women, after all, are not able in law to perform some of the acts legally defined as rape in our courts. As such, the term was possibly creating a misleading standard. In my personal opinion, that's not really the same as Sensitive Gitwizard's activities or the reaction to them.

Jawsus-son Starship

21:41 / 09.03.06

Um, actually, dude, I'm not a dude. People always think I'm a bloke; my current nick is a kind of joke about that.

Shit, my mind is only working on a does what it says on the tin kind of way. You crazy lady with your crazy reverse-gender internet jokes, why I oughta!!

So yeah, sorry about that.

Jawsus-son Starship

22:27 / 09.03.06

So this was fun, we should all get together and do it another time. And I just read the wiki and it said If the consensus is against you, RETIRE GRACEFULLY. so am backing away from the thread. Gently backing away, I've got both hands up and

RUN!!!

22:40 / 09.03.06

Retiring gracefully would include not subsequently making reference to 'that time I gave in to the PC mob to keep the peace, even though I didn't agree with them'. Just so's y'know.

00:48 / 10.03.06

I realize that you've backed away, graciously and humorously, and I really do appreciate that. I am glad that you read the Wiki and considered what it said. That you seem to be willing to re-evaluate your opinions is an additional good and joyful thing. If you listen to Ganesh's final words of wisdom about not whisperin' about the PC mob, well,... Jack Denfield may have to start worrying about a coup d'etat.

Let me extend my personal welcome to Barbelith to you, and give you this free, Home-Made Biscuit, much coveted in all of Barbelonia.

BUT [ah! you knew this was coming didn't you? I'm an English teacher; we specialize in "BUT"...]

Can I just make one thing clear? Actually, make it 1 1/2 things. Just for my peace of mind:

1) I suspect you regret that confusing post up there, when you said, So please don't tell me the intention behind my posts. Just to be clear: I didn't tell you the intention behind your post; I told you what this thread "smelled"* like, to me. I.e., how I was experiencing it. And I used "smells a little" because it's kind of like when you think someone near you has farted but it's not overpowering and maybe you're wrong or it was the dog. That's different, yes?

1.5) Ok. And originally I was going to make a point about the whole "first they came for the Juggernaut" line, which I had missed in Jack Fear's post, and so mistakenly attributed to you personally, and so responded with a huge "Oh Please." But luckily I checked back first. I want to assume that you understand that the underlying allusion in that phrase carries the implication that moderators and/or feminists are equivalent to the Gestapo (cf., also, the word "feminazi"), which is a problematic and, as Jack explained, even a paranoid idea. But obviously I'm just a wee bit concerned still, so I'm just registering that concern here.

* "smell" is, i realize, a bit odd perhaps, as it is an example of synaesthesia. Luckily, i just renewed my poetic license... [Yes, you are all allowed to groan at this point.]]

Jawsus-son Starship

06:47 / 10.03.06

See, I took "smells like" to mean "is absoloutly", which is all my own fault, shades of grey don't work to well in my fevered mind.

The whole "first they came for the jugganuaght" thing - I understand where the quote originates, was it from some Catholic Priest in Nazi Germany? But, no, I'm not drawing links between the moderators and the gestapo. It was just such a funny line from Jack.

And no whisperings about the PC Crowd shutting me down. The way in which you guys have thoughtfully and carefully put your points across is amazing, and there is no bad feelings from this end of the line. It has made me feel like my oppinion, no matter how misjudged, is welcome. But wrong. But welcome. But still wrong.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:25 / 10.03.06

Just for the sake of completeness, I got a request to dump this thread in Conversation, which I disagreed, because of long running disagreement with the confusion that sometimes arises between the Conversation and a rubbish bin. But there seemed to be no value to it, but ironically I thought that *just* by locking it I would avoid the shitstorm if I proposed deleting it too... Oh well, you live and learn.

09:32 / 10.03.06

Am I missing something. Why lock this thread *or* dump it in the Conversation? Feels like a valid Policy thread to me.

09:52 / 10.03.06

I haven't seen anything in the Comics forum for a long time so I won't comment on that topic, but I was one of the mods who agreed the name change on 'Women who Rape'. I had some slight reservations about doing so, but for the record I didn't see the change as justified by/signifying a blanket policy decision that the word 'rape' was henceforth not to be used in topic titles. Rather, I thought the bump of the thread at this particular moment meant that it was going to be read in the context of a lot of heightened feeling around both the ideas raised in it and the particular term 'rape'. (This is certainly the case for me, partly for reasons to do with my off-board life, and that might have been a factor in my decision.) I know this board is partly a permanent archive, but the decision I took was very much synchronic rather than diachronic - ie with a view to what was going on across the whole board right now as opposed to what I wanted for that thread's permanent marker. I think that as an act in the moment, an affirmation that concerns about gendered and/or triggering language will be taken seriously, it was the right decision: I don't think it should stand as a precedent for the use of the word 'rape' across the whole board in the future.

10:01 / 10.03.06

The whole "first they came for the jugganuaght" thing - I understand where the quote originates, was it from some Catholic Priest in Nazi Germany?

That was Martin Niemöller. He was a protestant priest.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:44 / 10.03.06

I'm guessing Lady meant to say "the thread" rather than "this thread"... otherwise I don't understand either.

10:58 / 10.03.06

Absolutely agree with Stoatie, it must have been a mistake. This thread is an excellent policy one.

11:33 / 10.03.06

And I take back the snarky comment at the end of my last post. I think I must have confused you with the person who did the original Comics thread. Bad me. The rest of it is still true, though.

12:33 / 10.03.06

I'm guessing Lady meant to say "the thread" rather than "this thread"...

Oh, that makes sense then. Phew.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:37 / 10.03.06

Yes, that thread. Note also I'm not a Policy mod, so I couldn't see a request on anything here, let alone vote on it.

19:26 / 10.03.06

See, if it'd been about a comic that was a juvenile mickeytake created by tipp-exing out the speech bubbles and writing the hysterically funny phrase "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!" a lot of times

You see, to me, this sounds like the greatest comic of all time...

Incidentally, I agree with the name change about the women who sexually coerce thread, and when I indeed came back and checked it my first thought was not to start an anti-moderator maquis, but 'ah yes, how sensible'.

Jawsus-son Starship

22:37 / 10.03.06

Thanks for clarifications etc. This whole thread has made me feel closer to the whole Barbelith experience, which now I'm thinking was the point, to get more involved. So thanks. Teh InterWeb loves Math!

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