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Would you like a taste of the sin?

 
  

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EvskiG
17:14 / 04.05.07
Hmm, nope. Not terribly impressive as a practice.

Keep in mind that the chicken is alive, is being swung around your head, and is not terribly happy about the whole thing. I hear it can be quite dramatic.

My mother's grandfather apparently did this in the U.S. as late as the 1940s.

(For some strange reason the tradition died out shortly thereafter.)

Here's a nice story about a written substitute for kaparot.
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:23 / 04.05.07
Yeah the first link is Azazel as pop culture artifact, mostly from the view point of a fan of the band fields of the nephilim with a little influence from crowley the necronomicon and fiction, but that kind of intrests me as well, its not so much wether its factually relevant or not, but wether the source can provide magickal inspiration, the pairing melek taus is really worth it as is the alchemical influence.

Sinner as the base metal to be transformed through the spiritual path.

I like the idea of wrathful compassion can you explain how the tibetan deities eats the klesha of those relating to it?
 
 
Papess
12:11 / 05.05.07
...can you explain how the tibetan deities eats the klesha of those relating to it?

Well, as I understand it, there are many deities in Tibetan Buddhism with many implements or tools, for removing obstacles. Some are cutting implements, others use snakes to purify poisons, or severing through egoic clinging with dri-gug or tiguk blades...and so forth. Hayagriva is depicted sometimes, wielding these same implements - because of the various afflictions of mind, various tools. Eating, sometimes referred to as "devouring", is only one of those methods.

I am not certain if I can answer your question fully, regarding how the Deities do this eating, but I would guess that first one has to offer it up, and invite them to partake of it, in some fashion.
 
 
Unconditional Love
20:20 / 05.05.07
So in anyway similar to the chod rite? Where in a sense the practioner becomes food for spirits that are invited in a certain part of the rite.

Basically even offering up the attachment to life itself among others and trusting that what is will carry you through. A profound sense of self sacrifice to become the food of the world as time devours you on a daily basis.

If sin in the christian sense means off target from the truth, then theoretically a sin eaters role may be to eat all that is not the truth of the matter and restore harmony to an individual by leaving them with the truth of themselves.

A body of truth, much like that which is experienced in shamanic initiation a new body arisen from the old that has been torn to shreds or devoured, the sin eater could act as a catalyst for the truth to be put into place to restore harmony to a person or community.

The sin eater, demon or otherwise is a healer like figure, the danger being that to heal there must be illness or sin in this case, but since the world harmony includes dis-ease or being off target, it would be figured into the order that sin/illness is a product of that system. Suffering as transformation.
 
 
Papess
10:44 / 06.05.07
So in anyway similar to the chod rite? Where in a sense the practioner becomes food for spirits that are invited in a certain part of the rite.

I am very reluctant to say yes to this. About as similar as someone running to work and another running a marathon, imho. Similar actions, I suppose, but chod is much more intensive and cuts through all attachments. Those are all purified, then offered.

Basically even offering up the attachment to life itself among others and trusting that what is will carry you through. A profound sense of self sacrifice to become the food of the world as time devours you on a daily basis

Well, we are food already.

I wouldn't think that sin-eating and severing attachments to cyclic existence are quite the same, but while severing one's attachments, one might realize the illusory nature of wrong-doings that we have done, and those that have been done against us. However, a very Eastern trad POV.

There are a bunch of topics that overlap here, it seems: sin-eating, sacrifice, purification, and perhaps even confession and forgiveness.
 
 
Papess
12:29 / 06.05.07
Interesting...A while back I was asking about Rudra, and Trouser helped me out with a story:

The wrathful heruka Hayagriva (Padma Heruka) belongs to the set known as the Eight Sadhana Sections from the Mahayoga division of the Inner Tantras. From the two types of Buddhist teaching transmission, Transmitted Precepts (kama) and Revealed Treasure (terma), this form of Hayagriva belongs to the latter. Both forms were received, discovered and taught by Arya Nagarjuna. The Terma text was procured from a copper casket in the Shankarakuta stupa at the charnel ground of Sitavana near the present day Bodhgaya in Northern India. Hayagriva Heruka has three faces and six arms, wearing wrathful attributes. He is manifested in this extremely wrathful form in order to subjugate a demon named Matong Rudra.

Here, a rudra is someone who has achieved complete ego-hood. There were two friends studying under a master. The master taught that the essence of his teachings was spontaneous wisdom, and even if a person was to indulge himself in extreme actions, they would become like clouds in the sky and be freed from fundamental spontaneity. These two disciples understood it differently. One went to meditate and began to work on the spontaneous way of relating to one's characteristics, positive and negative, and became able to free them spontaneously without forcing anything, neither encouraging nor suppressing them. The other one left and built a brothel, and organised a big gang of his friends who all acted in a spontaenous way, making raids on the nearby villages, killing the men and carrying off the women.

One day, these two friends met again and both were shocked by each other's understanding of their master's teachings. So, they decided to go and see their teacher. Both presented their experience to him, and he told the first disciple got it right while the second disciple got it wrong. But the second friend could not bear to see that all his efforts and energy had been condemned, so he drew a sword and killed his own teacher on the spot. After he himself died, he had a sucession of incarnations: 500 lives as a scorpion, 500 lives as a jackal and so on, and eventually he was born in the realm of the gods as Rudra. He was born with three faces and six arms, with fully grown teeth and nails. His mother died as soon as he was born, and the gods were so horrified that they took both him and the mother's body to a charnel ground, and sealed them in a tomb.

Rudra survived by drinking his mother's blood, eating his mother's flesh. So he became very terrifying and powerful. Roaming around the charnel ground, he began to control all the local ghosts and deities, creating his own kingdom, seeking revenge, he conquered the whole threefold universe. At that time, his former teacher and his friend had already attained enlightenment, and they thought they should try to subjugate him. Out of compassion, Vajrapani manifested himself as Hayagriva, and uttered three neighs to proclaim his existence in the kingdom of Rudra. Then he entered Rudra's body by his anus, and Rudra was extremely humiliated; he acknowledged his subjugation, and offered his body as a seat. All the attributes of Rudra, such as the royal costume, the crown of skull, skull cup, bone ornaments, garland of fresh human heads, tiger skin skirt, capes of flayed human and elephant skins, armour, pair of huge wings, cresent moon in his hair, and so on, were transmuted into the heruka costume.


That may provide more insight on how Hayagriva eats sin, although that story seems to infer sodomy as a tool for this particular demon.

You might also note that there are various deities that "turn into" Hayagriva as a wrathful form. In this story it is Vajrapani. Sometimes it is Amitabha, as well as Avaloketishvara. Also, Vishnu, in Hinduism.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:15 / 06.05.07
That is alot to take in Justrix, i will get back to it.

I just found this about Azazel which equates him with Yeshua

Who or what is Azazel

From the above *- These implied references in the New Testament to YEHOVAH's wrath or anger upon the Messiah clearly strengthen the argument that Barnabas interpreted "the goat for Azazel" as a TYPE OF THE MESSIAH who bore the wrath of YEHOVAH as a divine retribution for sin.

The Epistle of Barnabas brings out another fascinating concept -- that of Yeshua as the abused scapegoat. -*

There is alot to read through there, and the source is very religous, but i enjoyed some of the authors attributions, it adds a little light to all the demonology i was encountering.
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:51 / 06.05.07
Justrix having had time to absorb all of whats being said there, how would you work with that, do you have a tibetan teacher that works with that story, how would you apply the narrative to say to say a person or there experience, the story has a consistent logic to it, for a story of spirits, but how to employ it?
 
 
EvskiG
23:55 / 06.05.07
I just found this about Azazel which equates him with Yeshua. . . .

There is alot to read through there, and the source is very religous, but i enjoyed some of the authors attributions, it adds a little light to all the demonology i was encountering.


Interesting site there, calling the Pope the Antichrist, saying most Jews are not REAL Jews, and encouraging Israel to attack Iran.

I assume these are the sort of people who want to see Jews rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem so the Apocalypse will begin.
 
 
Unconditional Love
01:56 / 07.05.07
Ah, just read the article about azazel, caught a whiff of anti semetic sentiment in the article, but was more intrested in the info and how it equated.

Moved on already to Melek taus and azazel. sometimes leads into constructing a view point do lead to very unsavoury places, unfortunate that the info is blemished with such blatant prejudice.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:32 / 07.05.07
The Yezidi religion is so very different to the christian and moslem views of Melek Taus as shaytan or devil worship.

There is an extremely fascinating angelic cosmology there that seems to involve a real reverence of God, very syncretic in construction.

Not alot to do with sin eating really, time to shut up now, Azazel has taken me in the direction of reconstructing his elements without being characterised as a demon through christian, moslem or apocrypha sources,(or mr Lovecraft) but as an archangel of god.

From wikipedia article on Yazidi ---It has been claimed the Chermera temple shrine is tied to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. They believe God sent Azaziel or Al-Malek Al-Tawwus, known as the Peacock angel as well as chief of all angels, to move the stone that blocked Jesus' grave and that the angel stayed at the site of the temple.---
 
 
Papess
12:25 / 09.05.07
...how would you work with that, do you have a tibetan teacher that works with that story, how would you apply the narrative to say to say a person or there experience, the story has a consistent logic to it, for a story of spirits, but how to employ it?

I think one has to recieve empowerments from a qualified lama to work with Hayagriva, specifically, from what I can tell. This may be because He is a Tantric Deity, I am not certain about that, though.

Theoretically, if one were to request help from Hayagriva, I would imagine that one could do so by sourcing a prayer of supplication, and make offerings with clear intent of removing "sins" or obstacles, but I would't really advise it unless one was prepared to handle to consequences with grace, (and without guidance, I might add). In the end, sometimes, we will even cling to our "sins" in order to define ourselves, and thus repeat those terrible patterns until we let them go. A being such as Hayagriva will cut through all of that quite skillfully, and if you hang on...well, one can quite clearly see the implements you might get in the way of!

Just a thought that came to me right now, but I think that one's "sins" must be purified before offering.
 
 
akira
15:59 / 12.05.07
That film with Heath Ledger is on film4 tonight at 11:10, noticed it and thought of this thread.

The Sin Eater
(2003) Heath Ledger is a renegade priest hunting a mythological entity in this religious thriller from writer-director Brian Helgeland.
 
  

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