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Titles

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pointless & uncalled for

14:35 / 20.02.06

On the rare occasion that someone decides to send me a letter, my name always always comes prefixed with the title of Mr.

I consider this odd to the point of rudeness because on any forms that I fill in I always leave the title box unchecked. I'm also irked, when filling in on-line forms, that I am berated in angry red text for not selecting one from the pre-approved list.

This is not because I have any objection to titles, other than aesthetically I find them a little untidy. It's just that I simply don't want one. I wish to be footloose and title free and suspect a global conspiracy of title-nazis who all hate me in a personal and very specific manner.

How about you, title or no title?

Sniv

14:37 / 20.02.06

Just put Sir, and watch all the little people scabbling around after you. it's the good like, eh Terrence?

Slim

14:37 / 20.02.06

I prefer the title "Mr." I demand respect!

Smoothly

14:42 / 20.02.06

Was talking about this last night when my partner was filling in an online form that required a title. I don’t understand what the point of them is at all. And I’m surprised that in the spirit of marriage-neutral version being made routinely available for women, there isn’t yet at least gender-neutral version (‘M’?). Or why it’s still a required field on so many forms.

Smoothly

14:46 / 20.02.06

Sorry, to answer your question, I grudgingly use Mr when required, but avoid it when possible. And I hate being referred to as Mr. Weaving. I hate people introducing themselves using a title and really don’t want to spend any of my time talking to someone who won’t invite me use their familiar name.

Slim

14:49 / 20.02.06

You will call me Mr. Slim and you will like it, Weaving.

Smoothly

14:50 / 20.02.06

none

pointless & uncalled for

14:56 / 20.02.06

I always took Slim for a first name. Kind of like calling me Mr. Seldom rather than Mr. Killer.

iamus

14:59 / 20.02.06

My pal once deliberately ticked the "Captain" box when applying for a credit card and ended up looking like a very big man indeed every time he bought microwave dinners from the local spar.

ibis the being

15:07 / 20.02.06

Oh, that kind of title. I thought you meant like "Independent Contractor." I think companies affix a title regardless of whether you request one, based loosely on the perceived gender of your first name. I occasionally get junk mail incorrectly addressed to "Mr." because some people out there are apparently stupid enough to think my first name sounds like a man's.

Jub

15:10 / 20.02.06

I find that telling people "it's Doctor Jubslastname" on the phone is far more effective then saying it's Jub or Mr Jubslastname when trying to get things done.

pointless & uncalled for

15:10 / 20.02.06

With a name like ibis, they should be ticking "Though who art all powerful" really. I'd take it up with them if I were you, really hard.

Smoothly

15:16 / 20.02.06

Thinking about it, has title etiquette changed recently? This week, I’ve noticed that not only does Alan Sugar seem to require his employees to refer to him as 'Sir Alan', but Ben Kingsley is credited as 'Sir Ben Kingsley' in the trailers for Lucky Number Slevin. When did that stop being unthinkably naff?

Jub

15:22 / 20.02.06

I don't think it has stopped being naff. People clearly resond to that kind of thing though.

sleazenation

15:25 / 20.02.06

But he was called on it by David Putnam (also a Sir)...

Got to say that the widespread use of 'sir' in service industries in the US sets my teeth on edge...

Smoothly

15:31 / 20.02.06

I didn’t know that. Although that’s pretty much as I expected; that the piss-taking from his mates Michael Caine, Ian McKellen, Anthony Hopkins etc would have made it unthinkable.

sleazenation

15:46 / 20.02.06

I don't think Hopkins can be a Sir anymore since he is now American...

15:55 / 20.02.06

I find that telling people "it's Doctor Jubslastname" on the phone is far more effective then saying it's Jub or Mr Jubslastname when trying to get things done.

Whereas I find it leads into a conversation about what I'm a doctor of, and how that isn't very useful, and that I wouldn't be able to save lives, which seems a bit much when I just want to phone in my gas meter reading.

We don't have a gender-neutral title, I assume, because nobody's pushed hard enough - women pushed for a marriage-neutral one in the 1970s (I think). The discussions I have about gendered titles share a lot of language with national security issues - 'Why shouldn't everyone know my gender? I'm not ashamed about it, why would I hide it?'

Jub

16:06 / 20.02.06

Hm. I know what you mean Ex, but I haven't found that to be the case at all. I suppose people think I am a genuine medical doctor doctor and that I'm very busy working away for the NHS, as opposed to holding a different doctorate but I've never been asked.

Anyway - isn't Dr. a gender neutral term?

Mistoffelees

16:41 / 20.02.06

For years my internet fictionsuit was Mr Mistoffelees. I don´t know why I dropped it, maybe it sounds better if it´s only one mist instead of two.

Then again, His Majesty Mistoffelees the Merciful, it has a certain je ne sait quois...

Smoothly

16:47 / 20.02.06

The discussions I have about gendered titles share a lot of language with national security issues - 'Why shouldn't everyone know my gender? I'm not ashamed about it, why would I hide it?'

Which is why it makes more sense to me to pursue the larger issue of why have titles at all. I don't really want to take the position of asking for a new, gender-neutral title, I want my opponent to ask me not to abandon the one I've got.

On the subject of gender-neutral titles, does anyone else find it increasingly archaic that at the Baftas, Oscars etc, there are different prizes for Actors and Actresses?

ibis the being

16:48 / 20.02.06

You could maybe go by "Chairperson," but that sounds a bit like some kind of furniture-human hybrid, doesn't it?

Several languages have completely gender-neutral grammar and pronouns, so you could try borrowing from one of them.

ibis the being

16:50 / 20.02.06

On the subject of gender-neutral titles, does anyone else find it increasingly archaic that at the Baftas, Oscars etc, there are different prizes for Actors and Actresses?

Yes... SAG gives out Best Male Actor and Best Female Actor, which is probably as far as they're willing to go... considering that conflating the two might mean the Academy Awards last only four hours (horrors).

16:55 / 20.02.06

Jub - It's more amusing than anything. I think if I sounded less abashed they'd think I was dashingly medical, and treat me kindly.

Anyway - isn't Dr. a gender neutral term?

Which I'm enjoying immensely. If I'm ever in a film with Ben Kingsley, it'll be up there on the posters.

I'm working with a lot of monks and nuns at the moment - I was looking forward to using 'brother' and 'sister' daily. But they've all asked me to drop the title.

Tryphena Absent

17:20 / 20.02.06

women pushed for a marriage-neutral one in the 1970s (I think)

Ms was co-opted as a marriage-neutral title by quite a few people in the 70s and 80s- my mum still uses it and I tend to as well, more because I can't bear to be a Miss or Mrs than because I particularly like the title Ms. It took me a while to make this decision as I wondered if I was doing it because it was what I was used to, than I realised that I was never going to identify as a Miss because I find the marriage titles pretty sickening.

A few of my cards, those applied for by other people or the one the bank made a mistake with, have a Miss before my name. I feel quite antagonised by this. The AA for instance call Miss N Skryty. Twats. My bank account, the Tate and my driving licence all currently read Ms.

pointless & uncalled for

17:20 / 20.02.06

On the subject of gender-neutral titles, does anyone else find it increasingly archaic that at the Baftas, Oscars etc, there are different prizes for Actors and Actresses?

Yes and no.

Whilst it would be good to have the awards be gender neutral and thus very strictly meritocratic, such a move would currently still be biased. The movie industry as a whole still favours men in terms of balance of characters, both principle and otherwise. As such a gender neutral awards system simply wouldn't be able to accurately reflect the acheivements of women in the industry.

Besides, a gender neutral awards system would scupper my hopes of one day hearing Ayn Rand announce the award for the Best Transgendered Actir whilst being huggled by Pat Buchanan.

Smoothly

17:36 / 20.02.06

The movie industry as a whole still favours men in terms of balance of characters, both principle and otherwise.

Could say the same about white people. Not sure there should be a category for 'Best Blacktor' though.

grant

17:57 / 20.02.06

I always opt for Reverend when I can.

Which isn't as often as I'd like.

Saltation

17:58 / 20.02.06

i had a look at that gender-neutral language link, to see if it had Estonian on it. i discovered from an old estonian (i want to set up a school in england called "Eston") that they couldn't express "he" or "she", only "it". alas, it is not wikipediad, altho they've got Finnish, so i guess that makes a move in the direction of all the finno-ugric languages.

but i saw this article linked in that other article and immediately rejected it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_linguistic_relativity
i refuse to take seriously any theory invented by a chap who named himself after a klingon. he's extracting the urine.

now, as we discussed a very long time ago, had he said "influenced" rather than "determined", he'd have had a valid point. as it is, he's just a sad man in a dramatically wrinkled plastic forehead.

Olulabelle

18:42 / 20.02.06

I became Ms in November when I got divorced. Since I am no longer Mrs nor qualify as Miss I have no choice but to be Ms (if anything), and I rather like it.

What I don't like is the looks I get when I have to say, "It's Ms actually." People look at me like I'm being overly picky when I'm actually not.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

19:39 / 20.02.06

Is Ms. the one pronounced "Miz"?

I have always been jealous that there are no variations on Mr that I can choose between.

For a while I tried to go as Master Elijah, but that only worked in the right clubs.

Dead Megatron

19:52 / 20.02.06

Just call me Sweetheart...

Tryphena Absent

20:00 / 20.02.06

People look at me like I'm being overly picky when I'm actually not.

Just give them a handy gesture behind their backs.

pointless & uncalled for

20:01 / 20.02.06

Or kick them in the shins, with Dr. Martins.

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

20:22 / 20.02.06

I should start insisting that anyone on the phone who mispronounces my name refer to me as "El Presidente". I've got one've the simplest names in the world, "Derek Burrow" (same with my father, who's first name is "Thomas"), but yet I have never met a telemarketer who's been able to pronounce it right. Then again, getting people to SPELL it right is impossible ("Is that one R and two Ks? Is Burrow with an ER or an OR?")

I'm actually waiting for when I've gotten my chef's papers, at which point I can insist that people call me "Chef Burrow". I'm trying to figure out, though, what happens when I eventually get my doctorate. If I have a PhD, and my chef's papers, does that mean that I could in theory be "Chef Derek Burrow, PhD."? It sounds laughably pretentious.

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