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Cameroonian McCarthy style gay witch hunts

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14:28 / 12.02.06

N0t so much the exception that proves the rule as an overt contradiction to those in the movie biz who would claim that kids wouldn't pay money to see gay leads (although i guess neither Magneto nor Gandalf are actually 'leads')... Now all we need is for Jack Barrowman to take Hollywood by storm...

15:25 / 12.02.06

It's more to do with romantic lead characters, no? Sir Ian can play asexual old, wise men in mainstream films, but his more sexual and very interesting role in Gods and Monsters was not the stuff of mainstream youth-oriented cinema. (He was able to do both roles, admittedly.)

Likewise, Rosie and Ellen are allowed to be in asexual, funny fat girlfriend-types or dithering cartoon fish, but are pretty much excluded from romantic lead status, it would seem to me (although pop-culture is really not something I pay close enough attention to to be sure of my facts, here, so I'm willing to stand corrected if I've missed some key element of their filmographies...).

Moreover, it's also not accurate to state that lesbians are not discriminated against in the sports world. The Rene Portland scandal is viewed by many people in the LGBT community in the US as not atypical: academic institutions know that female athlete seems to equate to "dyke" in the popular imagination, and some administrators fear that this means straight girls won't play/their parents won't allow them to play...and either tacit or explicit permission to discriminate ensues.

This kind of quiet discrimination in Hollywood and US sports arenas is not the same as that experienced in countries where it is positively illegal to have any same-sex relations (although, note, such statutes are not without Western precedents either, e.g., in the US only recent court decisions have begun to strike them down as unconstitutional).

[And I'd just add that, by the way, DM actually has a valid point when he makes it clear that a victim's not wanting to go to prison is certainly NOT accurately called homophobia. Bravo.]

20:11 / 12.02.06

In Germany, the situation for gay politicians is quite mixed. There´ll be elections in Berlin soon, and the conservative party had a possible candidate and the news said, they didn´t choose him, because he is gay, and that he would have been the only one who would have even had the chance of winning. Instead they took a weak candidate again (the conservative party in Berlin is the worst cesspool and probably has had more scandals than all the other conservative branches in the other federal states combined). Now one could think: well, no wonder they are the conservatives and the same thing happened last year, when one conservative candidate spread rumours about his opponent being homosexual in a different federal state and then got to be the candidate.

But: our mayor (of our "labour party") is gay. So why did the conservatives not choose their gay member as the candidate for mayor as well? They know, people would vote for him. Or did they think, conservative voters wouldn´t? But again, why? You see, the mayor of Hamburg is gay, too. And he´s conservative. So, they´ll lose again.

And there are different kinds of status for gay politicians. The mayors of Hamburg and Berlin and the leader of the liberal party have come out. And then there are politicians, where the press and the parties know but all have agreed to not tell.

But here, politicians never get any problems because of their private lives, homo- or heterosexual. Kohl had an affair for years while he was chancellor, and noone cared. Maybe that´s why gay politicians here might be more open about their sexual orientation. Still, they only come out, when they come close to having important positions, like mayor, partie leader or minister.

22:02 / 12.02.06

yeah, bu he's not the "action hero", you know. he's the old wise guy, the grandpa, so it's allright for him to be gay. Teenage boys identify with the hero. If the guy who played Aragorn (Virgo something) or Hugh "Wolverine" Jackman were openly gay dudes, there's a good chance they would not have gotten those roles.

22:07 / 12.02.06

sorry, I didn't noticed this thread was on page 2 already, so this previous post is a direct answer to the last two of page 1. I'll read the other posts now to see if tehre's anything I repeated...

22:12 / 12.02.06

Germany, the situation for gay politicians is quite mixed. There´ll be elections in Berlin soon, and the conservative party had a possible candidate and the news said, they didn´t choose him, because he is gay, and that he would have been the only one who would have even had the chance of winning. Instead they took a weak candidate again (the conservative party in Berlin is the worst cesspool and probably has had more scandals than all the other conservative branches in the other federal states combined). Now one could think: well, no wonder they are the conservatives and the same thing happened last year, when one conservative candidate spread rumours about his opponent being homosexual in a different federal state and then got to be the candidate.

I'm sorry for the gay conservative guy being dismissed on that account only but, regardess of that, I always for any conservative party loosing elections. I wished it happended in the US more often too.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:22 / 12.02.06

Well, the answer is probably that parties get the candidates they deserve. There was quite a furore in the UK about a Conservative party not selecting a black candidate, despite him being probably the most likely candidate to win.

However, to retunr to the representation and treatment of gay men and women, for the moment in Hollywood - I think DM's on the money. Ian McKellen's blockbuster roles are not sexual - he isn't a romantic lead. You might say he's rather old to be one, but note Jack Nicholson or Harrison Ford.

Out Hollywood actors? Rupert Everett? Alan Cumming (bi rather than gay)? Character roles and acting with Madonna, really.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:23 / 12.02.06

There's an article in today's Guardian (doesn't appear to have made it into the online version yet- will try linky again later) in which "Sir Ian attacks Hollywood's pressure on gay actors". Handy timing, no?

00:17 / 13.02.06

Sir Ian is the Man!

08:17 / 13.02.06

Sir Ian pleasures the Man!

I found Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal compelling and entirely believable in "gay" roles. Yet, watching Will Young the other night in a music video, crooning about a laydee, was unconvincing.

Does straight play gay more convincingly than gay plays straight? Given the number of closeted gay actors who have managed entire careers without revelation in the past, I guess not.

08:29 / 13.02.06

Also, Will Young (brief role as cheery queerie in Mrs Henderson Presents aside) isn't an actor.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:14 / 13.02.06

Is it worth changing the title of this thread to something like "Attitudes to homosexuality in the developed and developing world, inspired by the outing of 50 allegedly gay men in Cameroon"?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:26 / 13.02.06

Only, you know, snappier.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:17 / 13.02.06

North, South, East, West - where's the place where gaying's best?

18:05 / 13.02.06

Not Cameroon, apparently

18:06 / 13.02.06

In fact, I just had an idea (oh, such a rare pleasure): we should make a list of places where being gay is illegal. Good starting point for a boycott.

08:59 / 20.02.06

There´ll be elections in Berlin soon, and the conservative party had a possible candidate and the news said, they didn´t choose him, because he is gay, and that he would have been the only one who would have even had the chance of winning. Instead they took a weak candidate again (the conservative party in Berlin is the worst cesspool and probably has had more scandals than all the other conservative branches in the other federal states combined).

Update: There´s a poll in the newspaper today. They asked voters of the conservative party, if they would vote for the conservative candidate or reelect our gay socialdemocrat mayor. 33 % would reelect the mayor (!) and only 47 % would vote for the conservative candidate (90 % of the socialdemocrat voters said, they´ll reelect the mayor).

The Berlin conservative party has always been stupid, but this time, they really shot themselves in the foot by choosing the wrong candidate, just because he isn´t gay.

16:27 / 09.03.06

Amnesty International has labelled the eight men and one boy being tried in Cameroon on charges of practicing homosexuality as prisoners of conscience.

The human rights organisation is mobilising its global membership to petition Cameroon for the detainees' immediate release.

"These defendants are being held unjustly solely on the basis of their alleged sexual orientation, in violation of international human rights standards," said Michael Heflin, Director of OUTFront, Amnesty International USA's programme on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Human Rights.

More here.

17:09 / 04.05.06

A further update, from Planet Out: Despite a court's having acquitted nine men last month on charges of homosexuality, Cameroon's government is refusing to release the men from jail and now plans to retry them.

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