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Underground > Switchboard >

Is Australia racist?

  
  

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Fungus of Consciousness
01:09 / 07.02.08
Let's break my assertion down and see whether it really is a "racist smear" or a fact.

"there were a number of high profile gang rape convictions" Nine convictions.

"involving groups of up to fifty Lebanese men at a time." Evidence tendered to the court by the one of the victims said that she believed that there were "Fifty or so" men present. Furthermore Bilal Skaff, in evidence tendered to the court, is said to have said "Hurry up man, there's fifty others waiting. No doubt your issue is with the number fifty. I never said that there were gang rapes "being carried out by fifty men" I said "up to fifty men"

"These rapes were all perpetrated on caucasian women." These rapes (six) were all perpetrated on Caucasian women.

As a lover of facts, do you still believe that this is a fantasy? Or will you continue to dodge the question?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:13 / 07.02.08
His justification is on page 2, Tsuga:

I referenced an article that quoted Bilal Skaff stating that there "are 50 more waiting", so I do stand humbly corrected on that point. I hope you accept that. I also don't think that the exact figure changes things a great deal. You may think otherwise. I'll also, not so humbly state, that this will be the only factual error you will find in a long post that quoted a number of facts.

He didn't reference the article, as it happens - that quote may well exist, because Bilal Skaf is a pretty voluble but quite unreliable character. He does not believe that the the exact figure changes things a great deal - that is, when he is wrong it doesn't matter. He also does not believe that there are any other factual errors in his account apart from this - then again, before this he didn't think there were any factual errors in his account, including this, so take that as you find it.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
01:16 / 07.02.08
Oh dude, stop ducking and diving!

Is it a racist fantasy that nine men of Lebanese descent were convicted of gang rape?

I appologised as acknowledgement of the issues you put forward, but as I said, it doesn't change the facts.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:04 / 07.02.08
Indeed. Nor does it change the fact that your account is partial, flawed, in some places fantastic and clearly informed by some dodgy preoccupations - the flawed account of these rapes, of the attack on the lifesaver(s), of Task Force Gain's mission statement are all examples of this. No amount of wriggling will change this.

Now, it seems clear you are not competent to have this discussion - or, indeed, on current form any discussion. I imagine that if this keeps up eventually you may get, slowly and agonisingly, banned, if you continue to fail to be able to storm off effectively. In the meantime, I think this thread may as well be locked, and people of good conscience should probably put you on ignore.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
03:17 / 07.02.08
Now hang on a second. You stated that I wasn't in command of the facts. Here they are again for you.

Task Force Gain was set up to investigate and tackle "Middle Eastern" crime gangs. While not specifically stating "Lebanese" crime gangs, a quick look at the atlas should show you that Lebanon is in fact in the Middle East, so it could be safely assumed that, if specifically set up to tackle "Lebanese" crime, that "Lebanese" crime gangs would be included in the task force's remit.

In case you don't believe me, I'll leave it to the then Minister of Police to explain Task Force Gain's purpose and structure. The full transcript to parliament can be read at - http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/hansArt.nsf/V3Key/LA20041026013

"I am advised that current planning will see a core group of about 60 detectives deployed as a central unit of Task Force Gain. In addition, 20 target action group officers will continue to operate with the task force to address the identified organised crime groups and increase the focus on mid-level drug trade. The task force will continue to operate with its Arabic translators and interpreters, and a new 30-member target action group, focusing on street to mid-level drug trafficking, will be attached to the greater metropolitan region. As well as that, a 30-member high-visibility, high-impact policing unit comprising uniformed officers will operate from the south-western under the control of the operations manager of the greater metropolitan region and be on hand to provide the muscle when Task Force Gain asks for it.

As I have said previously, Gain stage three will pave the way for a permanent State Crime Command squad, targeting the same types of crime that led us to establish Task Force Gain 12 months ago. That squad—currently slated as the Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad—will become the tenth State Crime Command specialist unit."

Fairly explicit in its intent don't you think? Or is it my imagination?

You further assert that my statement that there had been "number of high profile gang rape convictions" was "Fantasy. Racially discriminatory, hate-mongering fantasy" that I "accepted uncritically into your head and then smeared over this thread because it fitted with your idea of the terrible Leb"

Yet nine men of Lebanese descent were on August 23rd, September 6 and October 11 2004 convicted on charges of gang rape. Given that this statement has now been shown to be factual I wonder if you will apologise for statements you made indicating that I was indulging in "Fantasy. Racially discriminatory, hate-mongering fantasy" that I "accepted uncritically into [my] head and then smeared over this thread because it fitted with [my] idea of the terrible Leb"? In a post above I broke the assertion down (with the figure of 50 included) to see whether this was correct. My apology for this post centred around my use the quote "up to 50 men" as statement of fact I did apologise for the basic. Clearly this number 50 cannot be substantiated, I have already apologised (yet it is continually argued I can't take criticism, or indeed hear of it).

And can I also point out that it is only you that has used the word "Leb". I never have. The only reason I can see for your use of this word is to (not so) subtly accuse me of being racist. Well that's my interpretation....

Here is another quote from you completely unsupported by fact - "you have mind-reading powers, and somehow know what Task Force Gain is really about - keeping the beaches safe from these imaginary platoons". Ummmmm.... where did I say that?

So it would seem that the facts are only the facts when you put them forward. You have continued to state that my assertion that gang rapes had taken place was some sort of racist fantasy. So I'm wondering, now that it has been shown to be fact, will you acknowledge or apologise for your incorrectness, and your offensive assertions? And can we all now assume that anything you have said up until this point cannot be relied on as, clearly, your command of the facts is questionable?

I may well be banned, the thread may well be locked, you may well ignore me. Why? On what basis? I'm not sure where I have broken any of the boards rules. Perhaps you could point out which rule I have broken. Unless there is a rule against disagreeing with you (wouldn't surprise me).If I'm so crazy, so out of touch with reality, what are you feeling so threatened by? I suspect that it is that I have shown your criticism of me to be unfounded in fact.

I eagerly await your apology.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
03:34 / 07.02.08
"you have mind-reading powers, and somehow know what Task Force Gain is really about - keeping the beaches safe from these imaginary platoons". Ummmmm.... where did I say that?

Pleased to help.

I could sit here and pull out all the court records, but I would assume that if the Police set up a task force this would be a fair indication that the NSW police set up a task force to tackle what you seem to think that was an imagined problem?

Mangled syntax aside, you are saying that TFG was set up to deal with beach hassle. Nothing you have quoted supports that. Rather, everything you have quoted supports my contention that it was set up to deal with drug dealing and subsidiary industries.

Glad to help! Then you said:

But the police have set a a task force to address the specific issue of "Lebanese" crime.

Then I said:

Well, no they haven't. They have set up a task force to address the issue of gun crime in New South Wales. I actually quoted their remit to you just above. You may have a special relationship with them, which allows you to better understand their remit than the purpose that was stated to the public - if so, I'd love to see that evidence. As it is, this is another fact that turns out not to be necessarily quite so factual.

Then you said:

Sure, they didn't actually call it "Lebanese" but surely you are more sophisticated than that?


A sophisticated person, apparently, understands that Task Force Gain is really there to deal not with drug dealing and related industry in the Middle Eastern community, but with Lebanese beach hassle. I could only assume that this sophistication involved sophisticated powers of the mind. Perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps one can better understand the unspoken purpose of police groups by cultivating an interest in, say, modern dance or symbolist art, or some other sophisticated pursuit.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
04:13 / 07.02.08
Obviously your mind reading skilss are far in advanced of mine, because I don't see anywhere in you reply where I said that Task Force Gain was set up to investigate beach crimes. Or did you just interperet that? I stated that the Task Force was set up to tackle Middle Eastern or "Lebanese" crimes. Given that this is, in fact, what the task force WAS set up for, what exactly is the issue? As I said, if you can point out where I said it was set up for "Lebanese Beach Crime"

Just in case you need help with the interpretation I'll quote my original post again

"Young Lebanese men are also over represented as a proportion of the population in prisons. The problem is widespread enough that the NSW Police set up a taskforce to tackle the specific issue, namely Lebanese crime."

Doesn't seem to be any mention of beaches there, does there?

But, let's just for shits and giggles, assume all of what you say is correct (which I've demonstrated it isn't). What about your assertion that the gang rapes were a "racist fantasy"?
 
  

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