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Those incredible invisible bisexuals

 
  

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BlueMeanie
16:10 / 05.02.06
I wonder what people consider the issues that bisexuals face which are uniquely theirs, and not really issues for hetero/homosexuals?
 
 
*
18:02 / 05.02.06
I think it depends on how bisexuality manifests for each individual. Some bi people find they're more likely to need to be in poly relationships; others are monogamous but find that after a long time with one partner they feel the need to have a partner of a different gender; others don't have this need but instead have to deal with a partner who expects them to and feels insecure about it. I think these are all things which, while not unique to bisexuals, have an impact on many bi people's lives.
 
 
sleazenation
18:29 / 05.02.06
And surely also have an impact on the lives of partners of bi people who may or may not be bi themselves...
 
 
.
19:41 / 05.02.06
Interesting subject, and one I’ve been thinking a lot about lately. The almost universal portrayal of Simon Hughes in the British press as a confused and/or lying gay man, rather than bisexual – as he identifies himself – has certainly been revealing.

Especially the bigoted response from Lowri Turner. Choice extracts from Lowri (which really speak for themselves):

However much I love my gay friends, I don't want them running the country

Those who claim to be bisexual are simply trying to fudge the truth.

Before I am accused of prejudice, I should say that not only are some of my best friends gay, but probably most of them are.

Their lifestyles are too divorced from the norm.

I have gay friends whose biggest headache is whether to have a black sofa or a cream one.

My gay friends have not sat in accident and emergency with a small child. [...] Without these experiences at the sharp end of our public services, they do not know how they function.



I don’t think it’s even worth deconstructing Turner’s article itself – it resembles something like a logical argument (in as much as it uses well formed English sentences), but is more just a strange kind of emotive grunting.




Anyway. I guess what’s prompted me to post here (my first post on Barbelith in years – apologies for length) is the idea of a “bisexual identity” and how I relate to that as a man who finds both women and men attractive.

To give you some personal details, I’m on the straight side of bi. I’d say if I took a sample of the last ten people I found attractive, maybe three of them would be boys. Occasionally up to five out of ten. But I’ve never found myself further into the gay side of bi. I’m also in a long term relationship with a girl, and will probably (hopefully) never find myself single again. So superficially I’m straight. And yet, I’m not comfortable with identifying as straight. Because... Well... I’m not - I’m sexually and emotionally attracted to my own sex... I should point out that I don’t make a secret of any of this, but don’t really make a point of it either.

So would I identify as bi? That’s the big question for me. Should I identify as bi?

I suppose someone else in my position would use the term “bi-curious”. But that’s a really crap term, isn’t it? The term “curious” is loaded with so much baggage. That when my “curiosity” was satisfied, I’m somehow going to fall on one side of the fence or the other. And that I’m even “curious” at all. I’m not – I know perfectly well what I feel, and am perfectly happy with it.

So would I use the term “bisexual”? I have to admit that I don’t tend to.

I think there are two things that stop me from using that term to identify myself. Firstly is the social stigma attached to it, in regards to the “aren’t-I-provocative-I’m-bisexual! badge of honour” thing mentioned upthread. That rightly or wrongly, some people seem to believe that claiming you’re bisexual is an empty gesture performed largely by rebellious teenagers who don’t really fancy men at all. Like calling yourself an anarchist, or dying your hair blue. A fashion-gay, hedging their bets in case the girl of their dreams comes along and they have to quickly backtrack on the whole homosex thing. Strangely, this characterisation seems to only apply to men. Women can claim to be bisexual, and that’s never in doubt. Perhaps it’s because het men are responsible for the normalisation of female bisexuality and lesbianism (because, you know “two girls and all that, phoar, eh lads?!” ). And those same het men are still repulsed by male equivalent (“Eurgh, it’s just not natural, is it?!”), and so have trouble believing in its existence…

Of course, as a superficially straight man in a long term relationship with a member of the opposite sex, calling myself bisexual is going to look like the sort of empty gesture characterised above…

And that leads me onto the second, more significant reason that I have trouble identifying as bisexual – I just don’t feel entitled to it. It seems that bisexual is definitely a “queer” term, especially as it now appears commonly in the acronym LGBT, nestling alongside Lesbian and Gay. And I don’t think of myself as “queer” at all – let me qualify that – yes, I’m attracted to members of my own sex, but I’ve never been on the receiving end of the prejudices that gay men or women suffer. The concept of “queer” as I understand it, is that it’s not merely a description of sexual orientation, but also involves the idea of a community, gay pride, safe spaces, and a positive identity that has sprung up in reaction to the traditional prejudices in society. And so, not experiencing those prejudices, I don’t feel entitled to take part in that identity. I'm not sure I'd want to take part in it. And I suspect that a significant number of gay people wouldn’t want someone like me taking part in being queer either. For many gay people, I’m most definitely straight. Ironically, for many straight people (e.g. Lowri Turner), I’d be gay.

So what’s my point with all this? I guess I’m saying that I suspect that there are many people like me, who form a large part of the bisexual world, but don’t feel entirely comfortable identifying as bisexual. Which might account for something of the invisibility of bisexuals in society.
 
 
HCE
17:53 / 06.02.06
Women can claim to be bisexual, and that’s never in doubt.

Not quite never, unfortunately. It has been a problem for me in every relationship of any length. With lesbians, there is the sense that I am a second-class citizen, somebody not brave enough to be gay and not entitled to have access to gay spaces. Inevitably there are the numbers questions: how many women have you slept with? how recently? for how long?

There's really no satisfactory answer that can be given to such questions. If your credentials aren't good enough, then you're a tourist just enjoying women for sex, and your emotional connections are not taken seriously. If they're too good, then you're a closeted lesbian who's cowardly and doesn't want to give up het privilege.

I do identify as bisexual, and still am very much at a loss when it comes time to explain to my partners what it means. I wish there were at least some icons of bisexuality I could push against.
 
 
BlueMeanie
18:11 / 06.02.06
Thanks for the post, . - there's a lot of interesting points in it that correlate with my experience and feeliongs on the matter.

I'm also someone on the lower end of the Kinsey scale, although like many I can wander around a bit. I'm heterosexually-orientated, but I'm definitely not someone who would feel at home labelling themselves as straight, having had sexual experiences with men which I'd be happy to repeat.

I concur that the concept of 'queer' is something I just don't think I can really adopt, mainly since I also feel that the idea of a community, gay pride, safe spaces, and a positive identity that has sprung up in reaction to the traditional prejudices in society is not really me. I have never felt at home in 'gay culture' - it's just not me.

This bit:
So what’s my point with all this? I guess I’m saying that I suspect that there are many people like me, who form a large part of the bisexual world, but don’t feel entirely comfortable identifying as bisexual. Which might account for something of the invisibility of bisexuals in society.


echoes my sentiments very closely. I'm happy to call myself bisexual, simply because I fall into the dictionary definition, however I'm not a 'queer bisexual'. I think there are many people - a surprising number, I'm sure - that fall into this area of not being having an identity on which to hang their hat which is neither straight, gay, queer or anything that has become a strong cultural identity.

I suppose it's exploring the possibilities of this as yet non-existent identity that I had in mind when I started this thread.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
18:29 / 07.02.06
This just got dropped in my mailbox, and it seems to be somewhat in line with the current conversation:

The 9th International Conference on Bisexuality

Sorry, that's about all I can add to the conversation right now. Still trying to organize my thoughts for what is likely to be a rather long-ish post.
 
 
BlueMeanie
18:47 / 07.02.06
Dirty Ho: Not quite never, unfortunately. It has been a problem for me in every relationship of any length. With lesbians, there is the sense that I am a second-class citizen, somebody not brave enough to be gay and not entitled to have access to gay spaces. Inevitably there are the numbers questions: how many women have you slept with? how recently? for how long?

This is my understanding (which to be honest is via hearsay, mostly) of the experience of a lot of bi women. With the growing popularity concept of 'getting off with another woman to get the lads interested', I'd think that a woman who's claiming to be bisexual would indeed draw a level of doubt, at least until she somehow provided proof. Once again, it comes down to accusations of attention seeking.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:46 / 07.02.06
I imagine that would be a problem with anything that becomes "fashionable" (i.e. people doubting you're being sincere when you claim to be one). And, let's be frank, female bisexuality has become quite fashionable in the past few years. At least much more so than male's...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
20:27 / 07.02.06
I'm happy to call myself bisexual, simply because I fall into the dictionary definition, however I'm not a 'queer bisexual'. I think there are many people - a surprising number, I'm sure - that fall into this area of not being having an identity on which to hang their hat which is neither straight, gay, queer or anything that has become a strong cultural identity.

Yes, I'd agree with that.

The closest I come to an apt self-id is BiQueer, but I help run a bisexual group in Brighton, UK. When we're trying to publicise the group/events, we're very conscious that it's important to reach out to queer-identified, het-identified, x-identified bi people equally.

It can, I think, be easy to 'invisibilise' non-queer identified bi people.

Not having to locate your bisexuality like this is one of the wonderful and exciting chracteristics about bi space. Also, the variety of ways in which people identify as bi.

This is also why creating bi space is important. We are not gay, or straight, some of us may be queer, some may not be, but other bi people understand this/a whole raft of assumptions can just be thrown away.

The more time I spend in bi space, the more I'm fascinated by how 'Bisexual' works basically as an umbrella term/vague category rather than a neat label. My experience is that if you get 6 bisexuals in a room, you'll get 7 reasons for identifying as bi.

And I love that.


(also one of the reasons it's so important to me to be in/help create bi spaces)

Incidentally [has no shame]there isn't much permanent bi space, but anyone who is near or can get to Brighton should come to BiFest Brighton, a one-day event with workshopa coverfing all this kind of thing, cafe/chat space and DJs/a party to round it off. This Saturday, Feb 11th (there'll be one in London in May as well.)

More info here[/has no shame]
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:43 / 09.02.06
The Elijah Company Could the problem with bisexuality being viewed seriously be at all related to the the reasons wicca isn't viewed very seriously? [It] is often seen as just another high school fad?

Dr. Argenteum Why, I wonder, is either seen as a fad to participate in?

Well, it would only be a fad that girls would be allowed to participate in, again for the titilation of boys. (To use the Buffy example, compare with the example of Andrew, a whining effeminate who everyone despised, despite the fact that he wasn't particularly evil)

To go back to the question sitting accusatively in the thread summary box, bisexuals will never have a clear identity until it's discovered how to do the bisex. I think all that can be done is for bisexuals to work towards general sexual equality and freedom but simultaneously snip at the elements that we stand with that don't like us.

Most biphobia I've experienced from gayspace can be metaphored as 'Gays managed to achieve escape velocity from planet hetero, bisexuals didn't, so are a crapper and deformed kind of gay'. Getting a big ruler, writing 'Kinsey Scale' on it and then hitting them repeatedly with it is an option. I only suggest.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:29 / 09.02.06
Appearantly, people will always think people who don't tkink exactly like them are full of s%$#, regardless of them being gay, straight, or anything in between or beyond. I wonder how much of that is inevitable "human nature".
 
 
BlueMeanie
16:24 / 10.02.06
Well, it would only be a fad that girls would be allowed to participate in, again for the titilation of boys.

Dunno about that - in my experience it was common for boys to claim to be bi too. Maybe they were really bi, or it was a method of enticing the opposite sex, being both 'interesting' and non-threatening, and with the added factor that they don't actually have to do anything to prove it.

Getting a big ruler, writing 'Kinsey Scale' on it and then hitting them repeatedly with it is an option. I only suggest.

Ha ha ha!
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:16 / 10.02.06
Dunno about that - in my experience it was common for boys to claim to be bi too. Maybe they were really bi, or it was a method of enticing the opposite sex, being both 'interesting' and non-threatening, and with the added factor that they don't actually have to do anything to prove it.

You must've grown in a very different (and much more tolerant) environment than me. A boy who claimed to be anything less than the greatest girl-enticer of the history of the world would've been eaten alive in my high school (both by other boys AND the girls). Altough I do suspect the popular guys in the jock's clique were on the "down low" big time.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
02:58 / 11.02.06
I realize I'm going to sound like an idiot here, Argentum...

...but what IS the Kinsey Scale, anyway? LGBOUT (Lesbian, Gay, Bi of University of Toronto [or something like that]) has signs for their new website, one of which says "There is no such thing as a 'Kinsey 7'". Bit of threadrot, but this is the first place I've ever seen it brought up.
 
 
BlueMeanie
04:27 / 11.02.06
Kinsey scale
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
04:47 / 11.02.06
Danke. This makes more sense now.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:02 / 12.02.06
(just a note to say that if anyone who doens't know, wants any info about the bispaces/bi scene in the UK, feel free to drop me a pm, and I'll tell you what I can/link to resources.)
 
 
BlueMeanie
20:49 / 19.02.06
You must've grown in a very different (and much more tolerant) environment than me.

Oh, yes. It was a very alternative and in may ways unjudemental peer group in 6th form. Even outside my weird circle of friends, no-one was really that illiberal. Highschool was a different matter.
 
  

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