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What is your dangerous idea?

 
  

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Phex: Dorset Doom
20:43 / 04.01.06
First, have a read of this.
There's a lot to get through, sure, but you only need to read a page or two to get the general idea.
Now, we have some fairly smart people here, so it's time we jumped aboard this particular bandwagon.
What I want is for people to put their dangerous (that is, to the status-quo) ideas here- just the ideas: if a particular idea really rouses your ire then 'take it outside' and start a thread in Headshop or elsewhere.
Over to you.
 
 
BlueMeanie
21:18 / 04.01.06
All forms of government and authority are effectively just collective hallucinations produced by our genetic programming telling us to be social apes. They don't objectively exist - we've all just been conditioned to believe they do.

Yeah, I know, it's a bit wanky, but it still something that amuses me.
 
 
Quantum
08:42 / 05.01.06
Nationalise public transport, utilities and health.

Put an impoverished child in every SUV and make their adoption a requirement to own one.

Administer electric shocks to politicians in proportion to their constituent's displeasure at their policies, instant electro-referendum.
 
 
---
08:55 / 05.01.06
The governments, major religious organisations, media, and money obsessed corporations/companies are so twisted and corrupted by power that we've ended up enslaved to their fictions of how life should be lived.

The best way for us to heal as humans is for them to let us live our own lives, and they should surrender huge amounts of their power, because they only stole the energy to have that power from us in the firstplace.

We don't need their guidance, because their greed, control, and ideas of how life should be lived are the very things that have led us away from common sense and our own ability to imagine, and into confusion and seperation from the natural ways of being.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:58 / 05.01.06
A Decepticon logo tattoo, but with a pair of horns added.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:47 / 05.01.06
People are stupid and should do what I tell them.

Vote Evil Scientist at your next election for the world dictatorship that cares.

Ah gwan. I'll make you Head of Tap-Dancing Monkey Patrols.

...or something.
 
 
Mirror
13:27 / 05.01.06
Elected officials should be subject to two elections - one to get in to office, and at the end of the term one to determine whether they will be permitted to retire normally or be sent to jail as punishment for their abuses of power.

Oh, and of course, elections should all be run using a Borda count or approval voting, so that third parties don't just get the shaft.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:22 / 05.01.06
Yeah, I'm fine to drive.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:24 / 05.01.06
You know, every year I read the Edge.org list—and every year I’m amused by how the responses divide pretty evenly between genuine ideas and screeds that seem written by a fifteen-year old who’s just seen The Matrix for the first time—in fact, it’s always the same screed: WTF !!! GOD = NULL: YR HOLY BOOK IS A LIE AND U SHEEPLE U LIVE IN TEH PLASTIC CONSENSUS REL:AITY!!1!

I’m also struck that the vast majority of respondents are white academics, most in the hard sciences. Not being snarky, here—just genuinely curious: does anybody really think that any really dangerous ideas are coming out of Western hard-science academia? (And does anybody really think that saying “There is no God” is in any way a “dangerous idea” when spoken in this company?)

My own dangerous suppositions, which I’ve stated here many times and in many forms and which seems increasingly borne out by anecdotal evidence, are that self-identified people of faith are on the whole far less actively hostile towards science than self-identified Men of Science are towards religion: that people of faith can understand the thinking of atheists far better than the other way around: and that those who are most vehement in their hatred of religion have at best a highly distorted basic notion of what religion is, what it does, and what it’s for.

The dangerous idea on which these suppositions rest—the idea that, when spoken plainly, may cost me friends—is that if you lack the imaginative capacity to believe in something which you cannot know experientially, then there is something profoundly wrong with you: that one of the qualities of mind which make us fully human is, in you, deeply disordered. Bertrand Russell, in other words, was a fucktard of the highest order.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:46 / 05.01.06


"So, Peter, where did it all go wrong?"

"I'm glad you asked me that Brian. It was all going so well for Jack Fear for the first two paragraphs. Then in the third he introduced a dubious piece of counter-intuitivism which seemed to rely on ignoring the very existence of significant numbers of Christian fundamentalists who are hostile to science, despite the fact that he knows as well as we do that they exist, and he could just as easily have gone for a valid "scientists can be just as hostile to faith" strategy. Sadly by the fourth paragraph he's gone way off the pitch with all that stuff about disorders and stuff wrong with people. A real wasted chance."

"Peter, thanks."
 
 
Jack Fear
15:07 / 05.01.06
You know, given the words I actually wrote—which I chose very carefully, especially my qualifiers, so as to say exactly what I meant and nothing more—your reading of my third paragraph seems a trifle... um. Eccentric.
 
 
Smoothly
15:30 / 05.01.06
self-identified people of faith are on the whole far less actively hostile towards science than self-identified Men of Science are towards religion

Could this be because people who are just a little bit delusional are, on the whole, less hostile to reality than people who aren’t at all delusional are towards other people’s delusions?
 
 
Spaniel
16:17 / 05.01.06
Cub scout groups are effectively just collective hallucinations produced by our genetic programming telling us to be social apes. They don't objectively exist - we've all just been conditioned to believe they do.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:52 / 05.01.06
Would you believe it - it turns out the Decepticon logo already HAS horns! I was going to add an extra pair of horns, when someone told me it actually already has TWO pairs of horns. This is all for the good though - synchronicity! - because now, when I add the extra pair of horns, it will have a total of SIX horns. And 6 is the number of the Devil!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:07 / 05.01.06
if you lack the imaginative capacity to believe in something which you cannot know experientially, then there is something profoundly wrong with you

You're right, that is a dangerous idea. Fundamentally because it believes that imagination is immediately linked to (possibly blind) faith and you present no evidence for that link at all.
 
 
Aertho
18:24 / 05.01.06
You want proof that imagination is linked to faith?

Isn't the supposition that some (the dangerous ones) believe that faith has NOTHING to do with imagination? And that for them, Faith is TRUTH and FACT?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:30 / 05.01.06
People organise their perceptions of reality in order to make their own function normative (or, if you'd rather, transcendent) and that of others therefore abnormal. Man of faith believes faith is indicator of well-functioning mind, absence of faith sign of less well-functioning mind. In other news, Bryan Adams fan unable to understand why some people claim to know about music but not like Bryan Adams.

Not a dangerous idea, really. Just human nature.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:34 / 05.01.06
Without any explanation of how the conclusion is reached and with the words "profoundly wrong" stuck in there I think it's a bit dangerous.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:38 / 05.01.06
Oh I left out the word believe, which is really the crux for me. Belief primarily from imagination as profoundly the right thing scares me.
 
 
Ganesh
18:42 / 05.01.06
Not a dangerous idea, really.

Unless the Bryan Adams fan's Othering of Those Who Would Support Other Artists extends to treating them as second-class citizens, subhumans or collateral damage.
 
 
Aertho
18:47 / 05.01.06
I thought it was having "the capacity of imagination" to build and grow belief/faith.

And doesn't the Bryan Adams analogy work only if [Bryan Adams = Our Lord Jesus] and [music = imagination]?

I didn't think Jack said anything incomprehensible. Nina and Haus bring up good points, but what, specifically, is the hardest leap?
 
 
Aertho
18:49 / 05.01.06
Okay nevermind. That last post was ill considered. I'll wait for Mr. Fear to address the issue.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:56 / 05.01.06
Don't hold your breath.
 
 
Ganesh
18:59 / 05.01.06
Just believe.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:00 / 05.01.06
...in something. Anything. If you can.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:04 / 05.01.06
Well, Russell believed in love (other than that experienced by himself), among other things. So it seems Jack's diagnosis may be off, unless the belief that defines whether or not somebody's brain works is specifically religious belief.
 
 
Hieronymus
19:06 / 05.01.06
My own dangerous suppositions, which I’ve stated here many times and in many forms and which seems increasingly borne out by anecdotal evidence, are that self-identified people of faith are on the whole far less actively hostile towards science than self-identified Men of Science are towards religion: that people of faith can understand the thinking of atheists far better than the other way around: and that those who are most vehement in their hatred of religion have at best a highly distorted basic notion of what religion is, what it does, and what it’s for.

I for one am curious to know who exactly these Men of Science are who hate religion so vehemently (Richard Dawkins notwithstanding). Because it would seem like there's a bit of a victimization scenario being drawn out here against People of Faith by those big bad atheist scientists that frankly... I'm just not familiar with. Can you elaborate a bit on your experience/anecdotal evidence, Jack?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:10 / 05.01.06
Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Not only was Russell a wise old bird but clairvoyant too.

then there is something profoundly wrong with you

Quite a few times now that I've been told that. Gives me the horn, every time. Except when my mum says it, obviously.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:15 / 05.01.06
I believe in fairies!!!
 
 
Ganesh
19:18 / 05.01.06
I believe in Antarctica (although I've never been there).
 
 
Jack Fear
19:19 / 05.01.06
There's hope for you yet.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:22 / 05.01.06
I believe in Asia but not through the use of my imagination.
 
 
Mistoffelees
19:27 / 05.01.06
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:28 / 05.01.06
I believe in miracles. Where you from? You sexy thing. You sexy thing, you.
 
 
Lurid Archive
19:30 / 05.01.06
I believe that Jack Fear could one day understand Bertie and atheists. Admittedly, it is a bit of a struggle.
 
  

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